Rant for Thought

[idoru]

I just thought I'd share this story, since at the moment I'm so ridiculously fed up and disgusted with "artists" at large. (No offense, seriously, I'm just angry.)

Today I filled out my APSA portfolio information, and when it came time to write about my concentration... I was told to do it over again. "It's too honest," my art teacher said with a frown. "Write something else."

"Fine. How about I say it's about the shallowness of modern society, and the glitter totally represents that we only look at the surface of things." (It should be noted I'm doing a voice here.)

"Yes! That's excellent!"

"...I was kidding. What, seriously? Oh god that's revolting."

And in the end I just put some half-lie about girlishness and whatnot.

Ugh. I don't know, maybe it's because that as a manga-influenced artist I'm constantly being told I'm derivative and unoriginal (I've had more than one teacher tell me that figures I had made up for that illustration only were clearly from something I had seen somewhere else, and ignored when I took offense and said that they weren't). Maybe it's just a bad experience.

But. Is this the point we've gotten to? Art is worthless unless there's some deep, philosophical meaning or satire attached to it? We're so honest, you know, that nothing we say is true.

Discuss if you want. Just read if you don't.

[wheezy]

I think that it is:

1) The person or people you are dealing with. Let their turned back fuel your creativity. Make the sickest Manga they have ever seen, and fuck em. I am not a fan of Manga, but I am a fan of art, and if it comes from your mind and no other how can it not be original.

2) Are they saying they have never been influenced by other art in the past? Hogwash!

End of the day it always comes back to just being you, the medium, and the idea. They can't mold that, only you can, no matter what they have you put on that portfolio.

[Seedling]

Idoru. . . take a deep breath and look around here. Do you see a lot of deep philosophical art bullshit? Have a cup of tea, get a hug from someone in person, and relax. Your silly teacher doesn’t know the difference between fine arts and commercial arts. Most people don’t know the difference. But around here, commercial arts art the norm. Pretentious art bullshitters get chased out.

Why don’t you come join us in Concept Art 101? The link is in my sig. . .

[idoru]

Haha, I think I will. Actually even these two comments have gone a long way to repairing my broken artistic will, as has this site at large. :P I'm glad I found it by accident, really. Sounds silly, but yeah, it's unendingly frustrating wanting to be a commercial artist and being told not to do that sort of thing.

Thanks Wheezy and Seedling. That really was just what I think I needed to hear, from you know, people who are in at least somewhat of the same place.

[kovah]

i had a similar problem when i did a foundation art course, the only teacher with any sense was the 3D teacher, the others were always looking for 'deeper meanings' in splats of paint on canvas.
First i was angry about it and frustrated. Then at some point it clicked i did exactly as they told me to and gave all my art deeper meanings and threw paint around, merely to get the marks. Then out of college i continued arting for me and then went on to a uni degree that taught us how to do commercial art.

Do what you need to, to pass, but take all that bullshit they go on about in a pinch of salt. There is a reason why most fine artists are poor ;)

[tomwaits4noman]

someone in my animation class once said those who can't teach... now this is not a slur against teachers or art teachers, I've a few great teachers in college and a lot of bad ones.

I think in college you have to do things that you don't necssarily want to do, I didn't want to do social studies I was studying animation and yet had to take this completely irrelvant class.

I think that should not just limit yourself to manga. experiment with different styles, if you want to do manga then you can in your own time.

MY personal gripe with art teachers is they are quick to point out the flaws but rarely offer any solutions. If you are going to point out the flaws in someone YOU BETTER KNOW how to improve it or else you are just attacking someone's self estem.

no art does not have to have a deep meaning but if you are pushed by teachers just attach some pseudo deep meaning to the piece and if they want you to make changes you don't want to tell them that those changes will drastically alter the meaning of the piece, its new meaning is not true to the purity of your artistic vision and is not something you are willing to stay behind.

In sort as Wheezy said Fuck em

but experiment with other styles if you don't like them then as lest you tried something new and might be able to bring these elements back to manga.

Though manga can be varied in style. the character design in Ghost in the shell are on par or even more realistic than disney.

[monobobo]

I agree with you, but I'm sure we all do.
I once made a book of photos of spiderwebs. I didn't just collect the photos, I took hundreds of them and then narrowed it down to the best 70 and created what I thought was a wonderful work of art.
My teacher didn't like it because it didn't have a purpose other than beauty and my love for spiders. Apparently I needed a political or social agenda for it to be a good work of art.

Now I just do what I feel comfortable doing, and I do it because I enjoy it, because I love it. If people want social meanings, let them make their own.

[DavePalumbo]

those who can't teach

"those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, teach gym. And of course, those who couldn't do either taught at my school."

-Woody Allen

:)

[joelhinxman]

my painting/art history teacher in college told us some thing along the lines of. some one can you insult you in real life and over time that gets fergoten but you can insult them with art and it will last forever.

i dont think theres anyone out there thats had some stupid teachers. i had a project to illustrate a quote. so i took a line from a book where some crazy guy was screamin and drew a crazy guy screaming. my teacher said i dont get it you get a D. i hated that theacher. i should draw something really bad happening to her.

[Mirana]

I think in college you have to do things that you don't necssarily want to do, I didn't want to do social studies I was studying animation and yet had to take this completely irrelvant class.

I think that should not just limit yourself to manga. experiment with different styles, if you want to do manga then you can in your own time.

[...]Though manga can be varied in style. the character design in Ghost in the shell are on par or even more realistic than disney.

Social Studies is very important to art. Knowledge is important to art. By that idea, I totally agree that an artist should try out many things in order to find their passion and influence. However, this should not keep him/her from working on this passion in class. Someone who loves fine art painting is not told to suck it up and do something else in a classroom! If idoru is having this problem with his/her teacher, s/he needs to educate THEM. Try bringing in different examples of what is manga art and explain the medium, styles and commerical value of what you want to do! Perhaps some common ground can be found.

BTW, the style of the Ghost in the Shell MANGA is a completely different animal from the ANIME. GitS manga is very old-school 80's with big eyes and bigger hair... ;)

[Brendan N]

School isn't there to teach you, it's there to help you teach yourself. Try to make a point of teaching yourself something no matter how much you disagree. Keep an open mind, push yourself.

Also, don't get a cliched idea about "deeper meanings" and "symbolism." There are many ways to put these ideas into your work without sounding like you've disappeared up your own asshole. Draw from experience, not from speculation, draw from excitement, not contempt/disgust. If you're going on about how disgusted you are with society, how will you ever like what you do? Find something that fascinates you, that tickles you, that you find weird or unusual, use that. Besides, the LAST thing ANYONE wants to hear about is ANOTHER artist rambling on about how unhappy he or she is about the people buying his paintings.

Lastly, along the lines of what Miranda said, do NOT disregard your theory subjects, or subjects that seem unrelated. They are paramount in what you do in so many ways. If you do not understand how what you do in theory subjects pertain to what you in your practical subjects, ask your teacher or lecturer.

Keep an open mind, never refuse to learn something new or explore another avenue.

[Coinpurse]

couldn't have said it better than Brendan N :P

[Brendan N]

couldn't have said it better than Brendan N :P

Aw, come here, you! :P

[idoru]

I really actually do love that art teacher dearly. I think she just doesn't know what to do with students who don't have any desire to be "fine artists", since that's the way she was educated and where her inclination lies. I actually spent the whole year painting, which made me very unhappy, and I think if I had the chance to do it again I WOULD have done more manga art. There actually are maybe two out of twenty four pieces in my portfolio for that class that are even close. I just wish I could have put my paintings in my breadth and done what I loved for my concentration, instead of bending my will to some anonymous board of reviewers who aren't and never will be who would want my work later, anyway.

By the by, I think that to do manga-influenced comics, or any at all, well, one needs to be well-educated. I have a deep love for world history and languages in particular... It's hard to be a good storyteller if your world is small. I actually just advocate education for education's sake, no matter how much I complain about mine. But then they tell me I'm very smart so that makes it easier for me, I guess... Anyway...

[wheezy]

idoru, I would love to see some of this manga of your btw. You have peaked my interest...

[pencilkiller]

idoru, your situation just remind me the painful experience of my art school years.>:| Though I avoid to draw any anime/manga style drawing in art school. But the influence was there, and it showed in my drawing, and in my art. So many times I've been accursed not influenced, but copying the style. >:{ It's strike me hard, because I'm unconsciously drawing what appeal to me. I think it's the same to people of fine art, or any kind of art. You like it, so that's why you make it.

As a manga-influenced artist myself, I will suggest you not to draw anime/manga style drawing at school. Take what the school offer, learn all the basic skill and foundation you can. Those will come in handy when you really want to do manga-influenced comics in the future. Leave the manga drawing outside school, that will make school life much more easier.:wink: