Frustrated Artist

[Ahkahna]

I'll start this out by saying that for the past several years I have made one of the biggest mistakes in my artistic endeavors. I have constatly wondered why it is that I cant get any ideas anymore, I draw the same things over and over and over with hardly any change. I want to draw other things, other fantasy related themes, sci-fi, realism. No matter what I do I can't push myself further and I couldn't for the life of me figure out why, at least, until about thirty minutes ago.

The first, really big problem I have come across is that I've been putting myself in a delusion thinking that I didn't need inspirations from other artists to further myself. I have been scared of copying ideas/styles characters, creatures, in fear of the almighty copyright law. Thus I have placed the same pressure on people around me who seem to enjoy my own art. I get angry about people who copy, I felt that they can't learn that way. Unfortunately I have realized, now 20, how completely wrong I have been this whole time. Because I locked myself away from tasting others styles I've certainly put a great hault on my own artistic developement.

The second problem is I have managed to wiggle my way into the 'furry fandom'. Although I am not what is considered to be a 'fur' I draw what is in this particular genre (set aside yiff/sex/pron crap...). All I draw are furrys and anthros, and most of all my dragons. There's only that one time that I'll weasle my way out of it and draw something ordinary, like a landscape. But even here, I can't get anything right. I've been buried so long in the furry art realm that I've neglected to search for better places, people, artworks. I've noticed that in this stereotypical section of the internet, peeople fight amongst themselves for stealing 'styles' (Even I take the blame for accusing people of such) because we think they want to be us, which, in reality, they just want to get better. So in turn I have become the fool.

I've bought books to help me learn, I'm in an art college, but I just can't seem to get myself motivated enough to try new and different things. I'm stuck in mud.

I want to become better at what I do now, improve. But I still hold it in my head that 'copying is for lamers', even though I know it's not. As long as it's not out of bounds, and that it stays within the rights of the original artist, AND that I'm not taking the style all to myself (in other words, making a conglomerate of styles in one that would essentially be my own..like I have now??). We all have inspirational artists..here on CA and else-where, that get us through our art slumps. It's a sad thing that I can't make myself become inspired because I fear I will in some way be cheating out the original artists work.

Has anyone else felt like this? I'm glad I came to the conclusion of this, I'm sure there's much more to it than just this alone. I guess it's one step closer to understanding how to dig myself out of this hole of artistic meloncholy.

[Jason Manley]

more life drawing is key....long term life drawing...not just gesture warm up stuff....you also need more figure painting...landscape...still life.....once you can do all those well you will understand the visual world to the point that you can create any forms, anatomies, light sources and such that you want.

life drawing and painting is like gas in your tank...without it you cant get very far when drawing on the imaginitive road.

you want realism...that is the only way....period.

so stop drawing your dragons and stuff for a while...no more of that mindless stuff until you have a full tank of gas.


got me?

style...that will come on its own...like handwriting...it cant be taken out of you...but first you must learn to make the letters...then learn your grammar...then you can create...til then its just gibberish.


j

[freakybob]

I used to have the same problem. Total burst of creativity and then total constipation for a long time. Once I allowed myself to just doodle and draw without worrying about the result, I found that my creativity increased tenfold. Like stream of consciousness drawing. You can always recycle the paper, but I would recommend that you keep the scraps in a folder somewhere and go back and look at em when you are feeling less creative.

The artist's biggest enemy, imho, is being too perfectionistic with results. We all do art because it's who we are. Just enjoy being you are every once in a while.

As far as getting too stylistic...what's wrong with that? Yes, you should stretch yourself on different subjects, but do them in your style. Don't worry about painting a pointillist pic if you don't like to. Style is 90% confidence and 10% inspiration.

Anyway, forgive me if I'm ramblin'. I know that your concern is the secret fear of us all, so I had to put in my two cents.

[nova]

what jason said.

i had a similar experience. years back, all i drew or painted was characters set in simple environments, and even though i was happy with that and i was learning things, i knew i probably couldn't draw a proper human figure, or an perspective drawing to save my life.

i've got the fortunate case that i work with artists, and my art director started pounding me with everything i needed to learn in order to suceed. frankly, i got scared so i took a break for about a year and only worked on perspective, the human figure, and got away from color completely and worked on value. the basics, basically :) i got better and better at things i'd never dreamed of being able to draw, like european architecture and buildings. mostly it's been for work, since i draw them out then model them in 3d.

the other day i started drawing again for fun, completed drawings like i used to, but this time around, i'm completely amazed i can draw just about anything. i finished an environment sketch in a couple hours, and it looks great.

here's an example:
2 years ago http://www.geocities.com/putsthelotion/art/clown.txt

few months ago http://www.geocities.com/putsthelotion/art/market.txt

it's not as grueling as you may think it sounds. there's not 'limit' to what you can accomplish. one thing you should never forget is that progress is necessary for an artist. don't ever stop creating new things and learning new skills. get better everyday, even though it's only a little bit. if you're stuck, take a break, so you can keep progressing later on. you'll be happier and more motivated, and it'll be totally exciting to see yourself bloomin'.


good luck :)
- laura

[sparth]

j touched the right spot. even before reading his message, i was going to give you the same answer: understand your surrounding world better before creating your own. visually speaking that is. years after years, when you'll have realised that the world all around you is giving you its mysteries, then you'll realise how much you can create and retranslate the huge amount of data you'll have digested for years. that's the only way it works.

the technical and realistic criterias on which you have imagined your inner worlds are the same as the ones surrounding you, in real life.

and don't worry. 20 is still a very young age when talking about art and techniques. be lucky about that, as the sooner you'll have opened the right doors, the better you'll become in years to come.

sparth

[I.was.ink]

This is a great thread.

nova, I really like your experience. but what amazed me was the growth that shows between the two diff. pics.

The environment is so sweet. I can't do that now, but in a year or two, ill be there.

Thanks!

[Ahkahna]

I have taken all of my pre-req courses such as life drawing, advanced drawing...classes which I've passed with flying colors. It's not that I can't draw figures or what not, it's I just dont have the mental drive to start things like such on my own. I can't grasp an idea and hold onto it like I can with dragons. So I've attempted to put a dragon somewhere in a drawing which would be considered ordinary.
I sometimes go to lifedrawing classes provided at the college when I have the time on fridays/saturdays. But I work all day on fridays and work mornings on saturdays sometimes, by the time I get out Idont have the chance to go. That in itself is rather frustrating because I really want to go. Money unfortunately is more important.
So it's not that I am evading life drawing, I never get the time to indulge in them.

--

I am a horrible perfectionist. Although I dont spend weeks and months creating something, I put a lot of effort into what artwork I do. I study animals, which is my biggest interest and I see how they work. I've taken the time to make a skeleton, muscle structure, and internal organ structure for my dragons so I'd be able to draw them more realisically, give them form and function rather than just "ooh ahh perdy". So I can at least say that I have a good grasp on anatomy on both man and animals (having done some fun studying of greys anatomy and studying zoology books AND histology). I just have troubles regurgitating ideas other than dragons.

Personally I'd love to jump out of the furry community. I feel as if I've been stuck in a candy store for way too long and instead of feeling joyful I'm feeling the cavities from all the sweets. Plus, even though I'll whole heartedly agree that there are some completely amazing artists in that group, the rest just hold me back. I cant learn from people who are only drawing characters with no background or no emotion and who dont understand color combinations to create a good project.
I'd also taken color theory, I have books on color theory, I have my fiance who's a master of color theory, and yet, I'm completely and utterly lost on how to utilize it. I have the hammer and nails and wood, I unfortunately dont have the directions most of the time. Plus, if I dont know what I'm building, then I can't really build it anyway. Like I said, I have the books, and I have all the required materials, but the know how has eluded me. x_x

Ahhh environments. I am wholely intimidated by anything other than a simple figure. Perspective is a serious hurt for me since I never got a handle on it. Well, I can't say never. I actually took an architecture class in highschool and did an amazing job, and for a good while I was doing landscapes and cityscapes. Somehow I managed to turn my back on them and have since then, "fallen from the horse". Of course I need to get back on but it's a frightening process. I used to draw tons of things that I seemingly cant do now, I've lost that talent in a pile of one self interest talent.

I'd like to stop drawing my dragons, but the problem with that is they are a large part of who I am, they are my achilles(sp?) heel so to speak. Since I was a kid, I'd had some serious self confidence problems, family troubles, I wasn't like at all throughout school, so the only way I could strengthen myself would be to make a mental self image that would encourage me and help me along in life. Thus I have my dragons, my strength. The cut them out of my art would be like cutting the tendon. It's not an artistic strength as much as a self embodied one.

That and they are a part of an interest in comics. I've always seen comics on people, and I've worked hard on an idea that involved my dragons in a comic. I've told people about it who weren't even interested in fantasy and they seemed to like the idea and gave me some very helpful pointers on how to even improve what I'd already have. The downside is the thought that no one will be interested.


I understand that at the age of 20 I have a long way to go, but at least I've been able to pinpoint what, well, at least what ONE of my biggest problems is.

I'd like to try and get some more classes for life drawing (one of which will be taken in winter quarter), but I guess I can get my fiance and one of my closest friends to be models for me until I can get around to them!

I thank you guys for your time to make a word or two..Sometimes I just feel that I'm the only one with the problem and leave out the idea that others have gone through the same thing.

[I.was.ink]

You aren't the only one that struggles. I can't draw environments worth crap. I've taken about 6 life drawing classes, and continue to take them. It is frustrating as hell not to be able to draw something you picture in your mind. I download so much art from ca and open up a couple of files on my comp from diff. artists and study everyday from them. Only about 10% of what I do is successful, the rest is just crap.

I'm 21, and we're still young, so you shouldn't put so much pressure on yourself. Im not saying that you shouldn't try hard or anything, but you need to know that most you what you do is going to come out as crap.

For example, I open marko's, sparth's, feng's,kevin chen's, cos', brasshorsekiller's, lukias' and others' folders everyday, and just draw. I try not to copy directly from them , but I use them as an inspiration. I look at how sparth uses different objects to connect his robots together. I try it out and it looks crappy, but if I keep doing it eventually I'm going to learn how to do it. But what I've noticed is the most important thing is life drawing/painting. Just about all the creatures we see guys draw/paint on ca is based off of the human/animal form. I know you already know that, and if it seems that you always go back to your dragons, try doing what I do. Check out el coro's tutorial, find a pic that you like, and practice it. It might be your favorite technique to use, and you would have never figured it out because you never tried it.

So I suggest to download, buy, look at tons of art from artist's that inspire you, and study from them. Much, like how Jason stresses we study the old masters. I dont do that yet cuz I dont think I know enough to do so. But that's why I'm going to go to art center. To learn how to paint/draw whatever I can imagine.

Study from a diff. artist everyday, and before you know it, you'll be filled with so much information about so many things that you wont feel limited to a handfull of ideas and approaches.

I know you can do it! :D

-Iwasink-

[mcotie]

Don't sweat it. Definitely do What Jason said to do. that is the most important thing, but If you like drawing dragons then draw dragons. I broke out one of my first sketchbooks from back in the 80's and I've been drawing the same crap since then. I could get bent out of shape about it, but I enjoy doing it. It should be a goal in life to make a living doing what it is you love to do. I checked your web site and you have some nice work there, but the one thing that would throw you over the top is more life drawing and life painting, and pushing your skills into the unknown.

what are you capable of doing? You'll never know if you keep using the same colors, techniques, materials, that you always use. You ever painted with coffee? try it.Go draw some trees in the outdoors and try converting what you see into something that isnt there. whatever.

Try to hang out with artists (in person) that are going somewhere in life with their trade. Crappy artists that think they are crappy will just pull you down to their level. I've been hanging around, drinking some beers with some really good artists lately and its amazing what it will do for your drive to get better. You feed off of each other, the energy is amazing. Plus, post stuff on these forums, you'll get all kinds of different feedback;mostly constructive. When was the last time you went to a museum and looked at art? There's nothing like looking at the real shtuff. it really gets the gears going.

mitch

[nova]

Ahkahna -

know exactly what you mean! we all've got the one thing that is ours and that means something to us. but, in that same way, it'll never go away. for me, it was characters in general. each one of the portraits represented some aspect of my brain, and it was the coolest thing to get it out of me, in some form of personality. it's what i did. when i worked on getting my skills up, i called these 'stupid sketches', where i went back after bitterly drawing cubes all day, sketched some demented characters to remind myself why i liked to draw :)

you can always go back. you can draw anything you want and then still spend a minute on a sketch of whatever you do naturally, like taking a drink between workouts.

and mitch has the right idea. hang out with positive artists, they'll be your incredibly saving grace when you're stuck in mud.

[gasmask]

Yeah im kinda in a similar situation where i want to get good at concept are but i dont actually go to school for it but i go to school for animation, we draw alot and take alot of life drawing so thats good but its a slow process learning the ways of concept art but this forum has helped a great deal...oh and nova... when u practiced ur perspective for a year was it freehand or rulers and such cause im struggling with perspective as we only have had 1 class on it.

[JecaTatu]

ah yes, the daily battle trying to rouse the muse. mine usually hangs out on the couch eating fritos and drinking flat soda. at the risk of sounding like i may be belittling your plight, let me just say that is exactly what it means to be an artist. i look at it as a journey to see, to feel, to create something. i don't know if any of us ever find it... or if we did what we would do with it. i think we'd probably give up drawing and go do some real job like pops always told us. <but we took care of him, didn't we my brotherssss> you express concerns about copying other artists. you don't have to copy their work to be inspired by it. seeing the stuff they do may open your mind's eye to some possiblity you've not yet conceived, or show you roads previously obscured. and further mor--- (noise noise noise, ruckus ruckus --GUNSHOTS)

we think you should good outside. take a camp stool, a portable easle, frank sinatra and draw the absurd in the unabsurd. concrete structures, while neither healthy nor satisfying as a snack, can be tasty artistic morsels of goodness. we recommend that you copy from the greatest artist of all, the very same master that inspired all the great artists in our past... and that's... ooo ahm, right here on my tongue... nat... nat king cole.. no! schtupid imbecile, we should never have let you run the mouth articulator!

We humbly apologize for the general buggery that has heretofore taken place within the posting of this post. Measures of full rectification are in place as We speak. As you may have already ratiocinated, We are quite delightfully mad. <checks pocket watch and harumps> Now young lady, We suggest that in order to find what you are looking... that you look where you haven't looked before. Your modern world is full of gadgets and contraptions, here here, take for example those marvelous moving picture shows, these, erhm <drags deeply on a hand carved mahogony pipe. it may look expensive, but i got it for a smashing good deal!> nickelodeons We hear all the young people yammering about day in and day out. Now lass, while dreging inspirations from these new dangles and baubles, neglect not the stately past! Many a fine artist in Our day, and yours, has drawn compositions from days gone by. Oh such glorious days they were... <shifts in the tall backed red leather chair, causing the emittance of sounds disturbingly reminiscent of flatulance> why back when We were near your same age, oh such larks in parks We indulged in between our 26 hour work days and 4,652 hour we-BLEHAGH (sound of scurrying feet-a deep solid thud directly followed by soft splashing sounds-the scurrying feet retreat hastily to whence they came)


beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
http://www.mivs.com/products/videoproducts/tsg/images/colorbars-s200.gif

[Ahkahna]

I think I'm more along the lines needing some artists (pro or non) to be inspired by rather than nature (since I'm always drawing from nature as is). My big problem was that I was scared of being molested by people online for attempting to copy a style to get my creativity flowing, especially since I was a bit of a nag when I saw people copying others styles. Of course I wouldn't go nearly as far as to call the style "My OWN, I did it!" like many...annoying...people have done X_-

But! I dont push away anything you all have said. Last night I took the time to sit outside and I drew what I saw (which was getting to be very little due to onset of night :P) When I couldn't see what I was doing I came inside and went through my giant encyclopedia of mammals and drew a few real critters from there.

As for hanging around with other artists...I'd be more than glad to if it weren't summer time. No one is around and wont be back till fall :/ So until then I rely on the internet (n' very little of that too).

--
Another thing I'm noticing is that since I have a definite problem with perspective it hinders my ability to 'see' how to draw it when outside. Although I had several classes, my brain fails to accept it or regurgitate information when I need it. Causes stress when doing commissions for people :\ Hence I often just do character commissions so I can ditch the idea of a background and save troubles -_-

If you guys could point out some really good websites to help me out, I'd be more than appreciative.

[nova]

gasmask - a mix of both. laying out straight lines with a ruler up to a point i could go in and freehand. this was to get the perspective down accurately mostly because i was so new at it, but not let it hinder what i had in mind.


Ahkahna -

listen to me, i think you think too much, i say that in the nicest way possible :).

just do it. don't worry about accusations from other people concerning style and all that. it's part of the process, besides it's very very hard to come up with something completely original. most artists have been influenced by what other artists' work they looked at sooner or later, just like what music they like, their upbringing their livestyle, perspective and so forth. [of course, just copying without learning anything is a lot less valuable than learning from imitation.]

be a little selfish and concentrate on your own progress, you'll be happier. stick to the positive, and run away from anything or anyone that will bring you down.

oh and do learn perspective, it'll make your life easier [after it makes it a little harder for a little while ;)]

- l

[Pencil Soldier]

I know exactly how you feel. Ive had the same stumbling block for awhile. I would admire other peoples art, but never use it to help me. I think what helps is to find art you like, and figure out exactly what you like about it. Be as specific as you can. Then, you try to do those things yourself. You wont like the result at first, but over tiem youl find that you have improved greatly. But the most important thing, a least to me, is that you have fun.

DISCLAMER:p
This is just my opninion, and it may be wrong. Follow it at your pwn risk (but it works for me)

[jarvis2824]

Ooh, ooh... a philosophy thread! Wheeeeeeee!!!!!!!!

Ok, I feel better. Ahkahna, I think I skipped this little dilemma of yours by the saving grace of one of my teachers. He told me the first day of class... "If you see a good style, steal it. Don't feel bad, he stole it from somebody else."

My teacher was kidding, but he made a good point... as does everyone else here. If we all tried to do our own thing, we'd be lost. Don't feel bad about trying to copy someone else's style because it wasn't theirs to begin with either. It belonged to a guy in Korea, a girl in Germany, and a really old white guy in Italy who happened to be good at painting before that person took a little from each and combined it.

If you still feel bad about copying someone else's work, then give them credit in the corner like "inspired by _________."

My big problem was asking for input, because of twofold:

1. I was constantly told to come up with my own work (i.e. everything has to be yours and yours alone!)
2. The feedback I DID get was confusing and tore me in twenty directions at once.

Then I came home and was cut off from the artworld for a summer and the only feedback I had was my family (who understand very little about art) and these boards. What I found was that these boards were a lifeline for me creatively (the DSG's and the constant "study the world around you" badgering) but also that my family knew a lot about the world that should have been taught in tandem with my art classes. I realized that you HAVE to rely on the counsel of others to succeed (not just artistically either)... for inspiration, instruction, and wisdom in living whether they counsel you through words or lines or brush strokes.

"No man (or woman) is an island unto himself."

Sincerely,
Chris

P.S. That summer is this summer, so this is recently acquired knowledge.

[Ahkahna]

I've been testing myself with new things. I recently went to the POE chat to get people to give me some images to stylize or render of people, rather than animals. Of course I was slightly taunted, but they did help me out. So I give them much thanks.

I have to give you all lot's of thanks as well, otherwise I'd be locked in repitition. I've looked over several (well, let's say about 50 artists, comics, styles) websites that really inspired me, I saw styles that I'd be more than willing to try out.

I'll certainly keep a heads up with what art I come up with.


Thanks again!!!

-Hannah

[fixx]

Great thread. I know exactly how you feel Akh :) I think eveyrone get's like that every now and then. For me it changed when I got my bum in gear and went to college last semester.
I've learned so many things, that I had no idea I should know as an artist (proper shading, line quality, placement, i could go on and on). And since I was in an environment with lots of other great artists I was pushed on by them and myself. I evolved as an artist more in six months than I had in my entire life!
I'm gonna post some stuff one day when i get a good scanner, and manage to figure out how to put pictures here...
Actually this reminds me of what my teacher said once when we had to copy master drawings. I was griping about the amount of time it took (8hrs..) and he said: Well, and are you a better person for it?

... yeah i am...

So just hang in, keep working and remember to do stuff to inspire you! You'll break the bad streak sooner or later.

[pconsidine]

Okay - so I'm late to the party and don't have all that much to add. Except this:

When I was just about finished with college, I was sitting with one of my professors and talking about what the next step would be. We got off on a tangent about what the life of an artist is actually like (remember, your average college senior has seen precious little of the real world, so it's not as stupid a conversation as it might seem). He told me something that I've remembered ever since. He said "the real artist isn't the celebrity of the moment. They burn out or get strung out or in a thousand ways just don't last. The real artist is the one who's still painting when he's 90."

Do whatever it takes to create something every day, even if it's taking a detour from visual art into other artforms (like I did). After all, this is an addiction we all share. If we could quit, we would, right?

Hang in there. :)

[Ahkahna]

As of recently (let's say since I posted this), I've been looking at other peoples art, people here on CA. Art that has brought me much fascination, much inspiration, and has given me more imaginative ideas than what I'd had before. Probably the biggest influences I ran into were BrassHorseKiller, Doublemoonproductions, and Tangrala... There are several more that I ran across, but these are the ones that have styles that really grab my attention, as well as characters and creatures.

I've already tried my hand at incorporating a style of theirs into my own, but I've also tried my hand at replicating the style of theirs to see how I fair. I will continue to try. Not once in this past week have I drawn an animal, it's all been people. ..Well, I take that back, I painted a horse in painter7. Aside from that, it's all been people. I've taken time out of my day to draw my fiance or objects sitting around the house to try new things.

I'll probably be posting some art tomorrow to see what you guys think could use the most work/improvement.

:} Thanks again!

[J Bradford]

Ahkahna: If you can't make friday's life drawings sesssions, they hold them on Wed at Alexander I believe - I'm not sure of the time; seek professor Hung or Markowski at Anderson Hall, they are the 2 Life drawing gods at SCAD - you can also get a lot of advice from them if you haven't met them before.

[Ahkahna]

That's great because I dont work on Wed's, so that's the perfect opportunity.

I'd like to take a class with either of them, if they have any fall classes open I'll try and jump into one. :}

Thanks again!


-----


And, here is the link to my past week's sketches:
Not so frustrated anymore (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9820)

--------------------------------
(Edit)

I just checked, Jeff and Hung and filled up :\ Oh well, better luck winter quarter. I'll still go to the LD classes on Wed though.