Mylar

[splart]

Hello! I am a first time user and I'm not sure exactly how this is done. I am an artist in desperate need of knowledge on the subject of mylar. I have seen this material latley in alot of exhibitions. Went to Pearl and bought some to try it out but I don't know if I'm using it correctly. To be specific, I bought the GRAFIX duralar doublesided .004 weight. I paint with acrylics and I am used to painting and then using a rag and then bulding on with paint again. It seems to me that a big bulk of the paint is coming right off the mylar. my question is... do you need to prepare the mylar before using it to give it a tooth? And, is the permanence of this material any good? If somebody out there has worked with mylar or knows more specifics about it I woould really appreciate some help!!!!!

[Elwell]

I've moved this from FF. If a Lounge mod thinks it would be more appropriate somewhere else, feel free.

As to your question, splart, mylar is one of the most permanent substrates there is. It is very different from working on paper, though, because it's totally non-absorbent. You may have to modify your technique extensively from what you're used to.

[Seedling]

What is mylar? I was under the impression that it's some sort of plastic, and as such, not so very archival. *curious*

[Elwell]

Mylar is polyester film. It's dimensionally stable and non-reactive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mylar

[Seedling]

Thanks! (Wiki. . . I shoulda thought of that. . .)

[Flake]

Does Mylar go by any other names? I was trying to get some down the art supply shop but the staff had never heard of it..(it wouldn't be the first time that a product is called something completely different across on this side of the pond.)

Edit: or was I looking in the wrong place entirely, would a hardware / diy store be a better bet?

[masque]

Flake, try a printer's supply or graphic arts supply store. Polyester films like Mylar are more often used in the technical arts (like cartography or archy drawings) than in the fine or commercial arts.

i've never used it for painting, but the "frosted" variety can take a tech pen line like no other surface i know of.

edit: the Wikipedia also mentions "Melinex" as a trade name.

[Flake]

Thanks Masque, I'll see if anywhere local might be able to sort me out. If not, no big deal I just fancied trying it out as a support.

Actually, I just remembered there's a local architecture school so they might well have it at the Uni shop..

[chaosrocks]

Mr whitaker reccommends it for studies .. the frosted myler surface has a little more grab to it than the other. I have been using the frosted "vellum" that places like Staples sell for wedding invites and stuff. Works really well. as to the archival qualities of plastic.... um ever noticed what the bulk in a land fill is? and personally I dont care if my studies last for ever. Its thin and easy to store. and kinda fun to paint on. Its true that wiping techniques requir a very ligth hand and the paint moves around easily.. but that s part of the fun part. :P

chaos
Oh and Id move it to Art Discussion...but Im not a mod in here

[Ilaekae]

Mylar is Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET) made by Dupont. It's one of the most archival and stable of all plastics, and is the only plastic acceptable to serious stamp collectors to store stamps worth over $100,000.00 apiece. Any more questions on whether it's archival or not?

It's used in the graphic arts industry for overlays, film bases, x-ray film, and a frosted or hazed version is used for drafting and printing. Even when printed, the sheet has to be prepared in advance or the ink won't stick, since mylar is SO stable it won't accept most coatings permanently. Painting on it? Not for permanent items. Paint will peel over time. Any kind of paint.

Mylar is stable, flat, doesn't react to moisture very easily, if at all, and is a lethal weapon in the thicker versions...I have the scars to prove it.

[joelhinxman]

i like mylar to paint on.

wheres the link to whitaker's notes
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=82323

[splart]

Elwell and Ilaekae, thank-you so much for responding to my question. I am still a bit confused, though. I understand it's archival qualities, but as for the mylar accepting the paint .... If I'm planning to do a big project on this, I shouldn't? I mean eventually there will be no paint on th mylar? I have been to a couple of galleries who have work by artists using the mylar and they are selling quite expensive, so I wonder if they would go ahead and do this if they new that the paint was eventually going to come off. I love the mylar because it lays flat on the wall... I was so excited to start my painting on this material, but now I'm insecure... I have been working on a small piece and as I told you, when I use the rag with water some paint peels off, some stays but with time I think there could be an interesting build up. I'm just afraid to try it on the big piece if it is going to fall apart. What do you recommend? Thanks for your time!
By the way, On my search for mylar products I came across this website and I think its really nice to have somewhere to share all your stuff with. And, Ilaekae, I loved your stuff on underpaintings...

[2100]

If you suspect it's too smooth, then sand it and prime it ;p

[Ilaekae]

In order for 2D art to be permanent, it must be supported by and adhere to its ground/base. It does this by "grabbing" tiny imperfections on the base's surface. These can be the open cellular structure of wood, the weave of cloth, the open "weave" of standard paper, etc. To protect the base (especially from oil paints) and to give a less porous surface for the more valuable paint, a ground/gesso/sizing is used which also is porous and microscopically rough to a degree. The paint sticks to this, as well as the still-existing uneven surface of the original base. You have nearly perfect adhesion (cohesion, in the case of co-polymers).

Traditionally, glass has been a surface for painting in many eastern european countries for centuries, but it was a specialized "craft" for religious purposes. Modern silvered mirrors are a more common example to most of us. If you study these two examples of "paint" applied to a totally non-porous surface, you'll find out that neither is considered archival as far as the image is concerned. As soon as pollution, moisture or any other liquid hits the "painted" surface, it begins to deteriorate.

The same thing will happen to mylar, and it will happen even faster since the painted surface is exposed to the elements. Paint on chipped ham instead. Yes, it's it's even less archival, but at least you don't have to stop to eat while you work. (Personally, I prefer dried-out meatloaf with a slight gessoing...)

[chaosrocks]

hehehe
actually the frosted mylar/vellum has a tiny bit of tooth. and as I say I don't really care if its archival
But I would image that for something BIg you really want a better surface. Gesso on something (plywood, stretched canvas, masonite.......) the whole mylar thing came up cause its thin and portable for quick studies. actually Ive mostly gone back to gessoed paper cause it has one major advantage.....It burns. That and sketcher... talk about impermenant media.
did a beautiful chalk drawing the other day... then it rained and washed it away.. My best advice would be stop worrying about wheither your art is archival.. let it live for the moment, love it in the now, learn from it then let it go. Its like being a gourmet chef, or any other temporal art form... you know know your art was good, because its gone.

If you are worried about archival-ness.... don't use experimental media.

chaos

[splart]

Yes, you r right ... it is all about the moment BUT when that moment passes you go on to your next moment and you want to sell your work because somebody else will learn from it as well.....Then you have to be responsible and give them something that will not dissapear!