Trying to start out [Archive] - ConceptArt.org Forums

-sideshowbob-

March 1st, 2007, 05:52 AM

when u draw u obey rules to get it done properly
know the rules - know how to draw :>

basicly : every thing u see in your reality is a 3d object just like a cube-
they are oriented and alligned in 3D space
example : drawing a figure : figure contains a bunch of cylinders spheres and cubes
once u know the orientation of the limps ( simplified form > realistic forms )
u can change the lines to get the form shape and volume oriented inspace
i use cubes alot because they show me where and how the 3d object is oriented in 3D space.. all objects are oriented somehow and thats what u need to understand
u can measure any kind of orientation with a cube and angles

everything is geometrie
some is simple some is complex

i like ur figures but they are flat.. they lack : third dimension * depth
how i see figures :
head -> sphere -> cube
chest -> cube
stomach -> cube
hip -> trapezoid -> cube
legs -> cylinders -> cube
arms -> cylinders -> cube

those are the pieces u have to know

when i started drawing seriously i did cubes for 3 month :D
just to get the basic idea of how to draw diffrent orientations
it helped more then i could imagine ;)

keep up post more ! (check my sketchbook and see how i learn the figure and how i try to understand the figure as a 3D object oriented in space with volume mass and porportions) *cough* xD)

Zombie_dla

March 1st, 2007, 07:36 AM

Your definitely on the right track here. As for learning anatomy in a defined period of time: Fill _atleast_ one page in your sketchbook with anatomy studies every day and finish everything you start. Even if you screw up something in the beginning keep drawing and then search for errors in the finished piece, try to correct those errors in your next study. My advice would be to start with the human figure as a whole and focus on propotions, joints and stance (just as you have done). When you think you got that right start studying details like hands, muscles, faceses and what not. You'll be surprised how fast you'll progress. I'll be checking your sketchbook later for updates, cheers :)

Sirio_Brozzi

March 1st, 2007, 07:57 AM

Good advice given so far here, nothing more to say than keep yourself drawing on a daily basis, set a minimum, stick to the drawings, and do studies as much as you can so you can setup a good traditional foundation for branching out to other stuff later.

Keep it up. :)

CouchPotato

March 1st, 2007, 11:42 AM

Thank you very much guys, for dropping by! First thing I did was to go to your sketchbooks and gave you my thanks ^^.

Longxiang:
I registered a long time back...but never picked up enough courage to really get into drawing, or put it up here for peer review. Thanks a lot for your encouragement! After seeing sideshowbob's sketchbook, lol.....I need more efforts ^^

Sideshowbob:
What can I say man? Your thread won't even load up properly for me lol. What's your secret? Lots of Redbull????

Also, to what you said, I'm beginning to use the box thing that you talked about to block out my figures. I'm still trying to settle into the best way to go about it lol. I got a drawing that I was planning to finish up later, which was blocked out, I think maybe I'd scan it in and show it first to see if I'm headed to the right direction before rubbing it off lol. It'll have to be tomorrow though , coz I got no scanner. Got to go to the office.

Zombie:
Thanks a lot for your words man, it means a lot. Not knowing if I'm moving in the right direction is about the biggest pressure on me at the moment....When you know you're headed in the right direction, the journey suddenly becomes a lot easier.

Sirio_Brozzi:
Thank you Sirio, drawing everyday is defintely something I'm making a point of. Only thing is, do you have a sketchbook? : / I would like to thank you "personally", like?

Blade-14

March 1st, 2007, 12:19 PM

Good start with the loomis studies don't forget to try and apply these methods to your own methods of drawing, once u start studying the theories and techniques and start using with poses referenced from photographs, pictures or even your own imagination u wil get more comfortable working in this area much morte quickly.

CouchPotato

March 1st, 2007, 09:22 PM

Thanks for dropping by blade. I'm not yet confident enough to try my own style, but I'm confident that style will come as long as I continue. What I plan to do next is to get an actual sketchbook (lol, these aren't done in a book type of thing), then I will bring that little book with me everywhere lol. When I see a motion that I like, or even just dream up of something, I'll just do quickie stick figure drawing and flesh out from there.

In the meantime, here's something that I drew out with the cube geometry thing suggested by sideshowbob. I finished up the lady but left the guy, so you guys can tell me if I'm doing right. I'm in the process of finishing up the guy, which I will put up as soon as I can.

Big thanks to everyone again!

Edit:
Ok, the head is kinda narrow. which I WILL fix......anything else I did wrong guys?

Longxiang

March 1st, 2007, 10:43 PM

Big thanks to everyone again!

Edit:
Ok, the head is kinda narrow. which I WILL fix......anything else I did wrong guys?

If there's a secret to producing good creative work, whether it be art, music, writing, acting, or whatever, I think it's the ability to study what you produce and know that it sucks. It always will, in some aspect. Then you do it again and again and again until you do something that sucks less.
The only people who make no progress are the people who think their stuff is great, even when it isn't. People who think they're good enough never improve. I'm sure you know people like this.
That means your ego will always be taking a beating, and you will always dislike what you do to some extent, because no matter how good you get, there will always be somebody who can do something better than you can.
You're humble and critical of your work. Therefore I predict you will go far.

I see you stressing over your two figures and wanting to go back and fix them and try to make them perfect. I say don't. Instead, draw the same two figures ten more times. Of the ten, there will be one that you like best. Whatever you like best about it, try to duplicate that thing in later sketches. (You know you can, because you did it already.)

The people who do awesome work here (I am not one of them) were not touched by a magical art angel. Like Edison said, it's 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. Keep doing it, stay critical of yourself, and you will improve.

Now, give me those ten sketches.

CouchPotato

March 2nd, 2007, 03:03 AM

Haha, Longxiang, you're a slave driver, but I'll do it :p. With this post though, it will be my last drawing update for the week, because, as I said, I got no scanner. Got to wait till work again before I can scan. Soooooo, I'll have your ten figures, but I'll put something extra in them, just to compensate for the weekend (hopefully I can do it, but it's supposed to be a challenge hehe) :D

Thanks though for your really encouraging words. I've realised that I don't have time anymore for my ego to be tripping me up, so I'm trying to be more honest and open with myself haha.

Anyway, here's the finished version of the block shapes. There is definitely more bulk to the fellow now. Gonna work more on that, probably some more perspective studies. One thing I really need to remind myself is not to get too carried away with the bulk and forget my proportions, because I found myself penciling in a LOT of unacceptable distortions lol. I only hope that it's more acceptable now....

Blade-14

March 2nd, 2007, 04:36 AM

If there's a secret to producing good creative work, whether it be art, music, writing, acting, or whatever, I think it's the ability to study what you produce and know that it sucks. It always will, in some aspect. Then you do it again and again and again until you do something that sucks less.
The only people who make no progress are the people who think their stuff is great, even when it isn't. People who think they're good enough never improve. I'm sure you know people like this.
That means your ego will always be taking a beating, and you will always dislike what you do to some extent, because no matter how good you get, there will always be somebody who can do something better than you can.
You're humble and critical of your work. Therefore I predict you will go far.

I see you stressing over your two figures and wanting to go back and fix them and try to make them perfect. I say don't. Instead, draw the same two figures ten more times. Of the ten, there will be one that you like best. Whatever you like best about it, try to duplicate that thing in later sketches. (You know you can, because you did it already.)

The people who do awesome work here (I am not one of them) were not touched by a magical art angel. Like Edison said, it's 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. Keep doing it, stay critical of yourself, and you will improve.

Now, give me those ten sketches.

Said it in a nutshell ;)

and lemme say that last drawing u done was brilliant example of what i suggested, evn tho the poses are basic they're oozing with quality and look very solid.

glad to see u using your perspective studies on the human anatomical studies, it's really going to help u,

(Just like those 10 sketches he he:D)

-sideshowbob-

March 2nd, 2007, 06:04 AM

looks good !

try diffrent gestures ! and also learn single cubes and other gemetrie - learn the piece then build you figure or so :) when u can draw good cubes u can make good figures out of them
the lines u need to draw the cubes and the lines u need for the figures follow the same basic rules of drawing ;)

u can check single images of my sketchbook here ->
http://www.fragtasia.de/bob/2dstuff/_sketchbook/?M=D

mysecret : understanding ( each line follows same rules no matter what we draw - know the rules - control the lines - controle the result .. i like that xD )

post more !

CouchPotato

March 2nd, 2007, 11:23 PM

Guys, you don't know how much your encouragements mean to me. Thanks really. I'm working on that 10 sketches, and it's been a real learning experience for me. When I put them up on Monday, I'd probably make a list of lessons learnt as well haha.

sideshowbob, the volume of your output is simply amazing. I'm looking at your stuff in your directory now man. I think I will make a point of doing studies of particular body parts as well, like you did.

CouchPotato

March 4th, 2007, 09:11 PM

Christian223

March 4th, 2007, 09:54 PM

Hey man, i think thats a very good awesome try, and it scares me to think that you tried to get right so many things at the same time, perspective, proportions, anatomy, gesture, nice lines, animation, yikes!, its too much!, just try to go the the basics, and take baby steps, when you try to do something beyond your abilities it shows :)
Kepp it up maaaan!! you made nice lines, nice anatomy, keep on going!.

CouchPotato

March 4th, 2007, 11:31 PM

Thanks for hopping over Christian! Maybe I AM swallowing a little too much for myself at that haha. It's just supposed to be a little challenge for myself and a break away from all the basic poses I've been doing. Needed to do something else to keep the interest going lol. Anyway, it's back to basic poses for me haha, until I can think of another challenge lol.

Longxiang

March 5th, 2007, 10:05 PM

I am so wasted lol, but here are the 10 sketches! I had fun doing these. It's supposed to be 10 sketches of a jump. It's like, keyframing in animation, although obviously I suck at choosing the keyframes lol. I put up a stick figure drawing thing as well so you guys can see the motion as a whole.

Anyway, for some self criticism. After this little excercise, what really really hit home to me is that I still lack the right knowledge of the anatomy to properly express how the muscles should fold and bunch over each other. Not only that, but I really got to work on the skeletons again lol, because some of the twists and turns I put my manikin's limbs through would have dislocated my own limbs hahahahaha.

Another area I struggled with is again perspective. I really don't understand how someone could have sat and told me with a straight face perspective is not important? But lol, I will find the time to play with cubes as sideshowbob has done.

Other problems include my choosing of poses. A lot of the 10 sketches look awfully stiff, and some of the poses, like 06 is just stupidly odd :/ Need to find a way to express more grace in my poses. Any suggestions on how I should do this would be greatly appreciated.

And of course, I will so fail if this is an animation class BECAUSE MY 10 MANIKINS LOOK NOTHING LIKE EACH OTHER. lol, I suck.

There's probably tonnes of other stuff I missed, so like, I beg you guys to go through my stuff with a fine comb and just hit me with your harshest crits! Would really appreciate them too!

(Just look through the stick man pic to get a idea of the motion as a whole)

You sir, do not suck. They're only rough models so far, and for models they're very decent. (Though I do NOT want to know what figure #9 is doing there.)

Whether you should focus more on anatomy really depends what kind of artist you want to be. I think your proportions, perspective and muscle groups are good. All those models lack is to be cleaned up, detailed, and nicely rendered.

As your self-appointed taskmaster, I am now commanding you to go over those figures again in pen (or better yet in photoshop or a paint program) and clean them up, make them look nice. Maybe even put clothes on them. Maybe not faces and hair just yet, or rendering, but we need to turn those rough sketches into smooth clean drawings.

CouchPotato

March 6th, 2007, 12:23 AM

(Though I do NOT want to know what figure #9 is doing there.)

Why, he's playing with...something of course :p

Thanks man, your words mean a lot to me. Probably next time I can be critical of myself while leaving all the emo-stuff out huh? :P

I'm not quite sure what you mean when you want me to take it into Photoshop, because I've seriously never thought so far ahead yet lol. I'll just go by feel (as I've been doing for most of the 10 sketches lol) and clean out all the rubber marks and ink in the outlines. Dunno how far I'll go, since I've never done that, but everyone's gotta start from somewhere haha.

But before I do that, I've got stuff to update!

First is manikins in freefall! But it didn't go off as well as I hoped; there was supposed to be lots more but that angle is so hard to grasp that I went all emo and threw my pencils across the room and stomped around.

Ok, I didn't throw my pencils around or stomp lol, but I did go emo and just drew some cubes completely from feel and without all the stupid horizon lines or vanishing point lines and stuff, and by the next day turned those cubes into the second pic you see. Which in my humble opinion seems a heck of a lot better than the freefall manikins. Whaaaaaiiiiiiiiiii??????? Aren't the horizon and vanishing point stuff supposed to help me draw easier?

Edit:
Looking at it again, my 2nd pic still suffers from perspective problems. The lower right guy manikin should be a TAD larger.

Longxiang

March 6th, 2007, 07:56 PM

Why, he's playing with...something of course :p

Yeah, it looks like he's adjusting his package. That's the first thing I'd do after a nice long jump too, actually.

I'm not quite sure what you mean when you want me to take it into Photoshop, because I've seriously never thought so far ahead yet lol. I'll just go by feel (as I've been doing for most of the 10 sketches lol) and clean out all the rubber marks and ink in the outlines. Dunno how far I'll go, since I've never done that, but everyone's gotta start from somewhere haha.

Photoshop is where I and many others do all their rendering. Scan your drawings in, like you've done, load them into photoshop, add a transparent layer on top of that, set the layer to multiply, and ink/paint on that. OpenCanvas and Painter are just as good, depends what you like.

That of course assumes you have a Wacom tablet. Drawing on the computer is pretty rough with a mouse, though not impossible.

Otherwise yeah, just ink the drawings and erase the pencil lines from underneath (after the ink dries! I cannot stress this enough! heh.)

But before I do that, I've got stuff to update!

First is manikins in freefall! But it didn't go off as well as I hoped; there was supposed to be lots more but that angle is so hard to grasp that I went all emo and threw my pencils across the room and stomped around.

Upload a video of the throwing and stomping please.

Ok, I didn't throw my pencils around or stomp lol, but I did go emo and just drew some cubes completely from feel and without all the stupid horizon lines or vanishing point lines and stuff, and by the next day turned those cubes into the second pic you see. Which in my humble opinion seems a heck of a lot better than the freefall manikins. Whaaaaaiiiiiiiiiii??????? Aren't the horizon and vanishing point stuff supposed to help me draw easier?

Eh... for figures I'm not so sure. Cityscapes and things that are supposed to be very even and regular require perspective lines, but in my opinion figures are better off without. For figures the most important thing is the gesture (again, my opinion here) That is, does the figure look like its doing the action you mean it to be doing. That means the figure will have a sort of flow to it, from toes to fingers. Draw that first, then draw the figure around it, trying your best to keep realistic-ish proportions. Art is about expressing the idea of something, after all, not necessarily recording exactly what something looks like, as if you were taking a picture. (If you want to do that, it's better to use a camera.)

Of course that's just my opinion. Some people lay graph paper over photographs and draw/paint them one square at a time to duplicate them perfectly. I think that's ridiculous, but it really comes down to what you want to accomplish.

By the way, those freefalling figures look creepy, all M.C. Escher-like. Not bad at all.

CouchPotato

March 7th, 2007, 12:00 AM

So I tried to take the thing into PS and see what I could do with it. I don't think it turned out all that good haha. I think I need to work on getting used to drawing on the tablet. Don't quite like it atm lol...not enough....friction? ^^;;;

Anyway, so I was like, using the polygonal lasso tool to cut an outline over my figures, and then paint bucketing the lines, which I gueeeesssss isn't the right way to do so huh? Nvm, will try again later.

I think Longxiang, you're probably right about not sticking too strictly to the science part of perspective when it comes to drawing figures. I seem to get better results when I just go ahead without worrying too much about it. I just don't want to, like, take a short cut that turns out not to be a short cut, you know what I mean? haha.

And next would be, male manikins in freefall! I think this one turned out slightly better, although the manikin in the middle is hideous. Like a cardboard cutout, but no matter, that was the first one. The rest got better. Marginally.

Longxiang

March 7th, 2007, 04:03 AM

That cleaned up one looks very not bad. Muscles are squarish, but that's because it's a mannequin and not a person. I wonder what would happen if you turned Pinnochio there into a real boy.

Troll Skelking

March 7th, 2007, 08:16 AM

Very nice, Couch Potato.
I see, you try hard to achieve results.
Dont worry about the perspective in figure drawings, its not that important.
I think your biggest problem at the moment is the stiffness. Try to use more flowing lines, curved shapes, dynamic poses. Then try shading your figures to describe form more properly.

Waiting for new sketches

Troll

Arimus

March 7th, 2007, 11:13 AM

hey couch! great studies here.

I'm just starting out too so I don't really know what kind of advice to give,
so i'm just here for morale support lol.

I know how frustrating it can get sometimes;p
I broke a pencil one time too-_-;... lucky I had spares=/...

Good luck! Work hard, and see you at the finishing line (if there's one that is@@)!

CouchPotato

March 8th, 2007, 01:53 AM

Hey guys, thanks for your comments!

Longxiang:
He would be a boy wth a very long nose of course!

Troll:
Hey man, thanks a lot for keeping tabs on my stuff. You were the first to reply to me! Thanks very much. I too think my figures are very stiff. Need to figure out what's not right and work on it. As for shading....believe me man, I want to lol, but the guy teaching me art doesn't allow me to yet. Says I need to take it step by step and I'm not yet at the stage where I should do shading. Something about getting my external shapes right first, then telling the difference between dark areas, light areas, before adding color values lol.

Arimus:
Your morale support means a lot to me man, as is everyone elses', especially Longxiang's so far. Was really feeling down not long ago, but after the kind words of everyone here at CA, you know, there's a lighter outlook on the challenges ahead. Doesn't seem so daunting anymore.

Anyway, I've got updates. So even though Longxiang's kind enough to say that my PS touchup isn't bad, but I think that's only because we're seeing it here at 800x590 resolution. If we zoom all the way in, we'll be able to see lots of imperfection. Any of you guys got any tips on inking in PS? lol, I'm finding it really hard to do precision strokes with the tablet.

I thought maybe I can define the outline instead, by painting it in someway lol. I think I got a very generic gist of a working method, but needs working more. I probably also need to know how to paint irl >_>. I've got like a sample pic of what I mean lol. I think I'm going to have a lot of trouble here. Got color vision deficiency, haha. Can't really tell all the earth colors apart properly.

Also did another manikin drawing! Saw a nice pose when watching 300 yesterday, so kept it in my mind and drew it out later. I think I'm gonna get that DVD, not because it's a nice show. I think there's too much CG and too much dramatisation, but they got lots of almost naked men with beautiful muscles!!!

I think I'm heading towards a very baaaaaaad place.....I need a DVD with beautiful naked women to balance this out somehow.

Longxiang

March 8th, 2007, 04:27 AM

Anyway, I've got updates. So even though Longxiang's kind enough to say that my PS touchup isn't bad, but I think that's only because we're seeing it here at 800x590 resolution. If we zoom all the way in, we'll be able to see lots of imperfection. Any of you guys got any tips on inking in PS?

Zooming way out works for me. My last one I drew 2400x4800, then reduced it down to 600x1200 for posting. Most real paintings look like crap up close.

Advice on inking? Hmm. Zoom in, draw long strokes. Use variable-width lines. Make the interior lines thin and the exterior ones thicker. Rotate your canvas to a comfortable angle (photoshop can only rotate 90 degrees, but Painter and OpenCanvas you can rotate freely to any angle.) Go slow, use control-Z a lot. Redo the same line over and over until you draw one you like.

Troll Skelking

March 8th, 2007, 11:23 AM

Well Couch Potato, if he says, that you shouldn`t, then you probably should not ..(come on, its a teacher, right?:wink: ). BTW, i did not mean anatomically correct shading, but simple form shading. YOu know, like an arm is a cylinder , etc .You should imagine the things you draw as 3 dimensional forms, otherwise it will always look flat and "not right". I dont know, where you live, but probably the next best library has the Anatomy book by Burn Hogarth. His style seems a bit cartoonish at first, but its best for learning anathomy, because it exaggerates the essential characteristics of the human body. He also introduces some guidelines on constructing figures. BTW there is very much said about the stiffness and how to avoid it. If you can get this book, you should do so.

And now draw more, I am watching you :cheerleader:

The Evil Gasmasksandweaponsloving Troll:gasmask: :uzi2:

EDIT: Better forget about colouring right now, just draw with your pencils and try to get the forms right, and learn shading and then anathomy

CouchPotato

March 9th, 2007, 01:13 AM

Hehe, thanks for the tips guys. I'll go look for Burn Hogarth's book if I can. And no problem about the coloring. I can see that it should be at a later stage too lol.

So for today's updates, I corrected the javelin throw pose a little, shortened the back arm of the manikin abit to give more perspective? lol, dunno if it worked or not.

Also got a sitting manikin. This one was challenging, because it was a bit hard to grasp and convey the mood lol, hope it's at least decent.

And I have another piece from that Jessica Simpson pose picture from your pal's sketchbook, Longxiang. It's still slightly off, the pose and stuff, and it took me about an hour to do lol, far more than the 15 minutes it was supposed to take. Took lots of peeks too :p

For the next couple of weeks or so, I'm moving on to the muscles (yay!). Front, side back stuff all over again lol. Please continue to share with me your wisdom peeps!

Longxiang

March 9th, 2007, 08:32 AM

I think you know this already, but the power-slouching guy is bt far the best of the three. Except that his left foot isn't quite flat on the ground. You should develop that one.

-sideshowbob-

March 9th, 2007, 09:27 AM

wow :D

you should experiment with some poses.. most of those poses look pretty much 2d
arms and legs are not moved into depth.. sometimes creates odd looking poses
i used to draw one kind of torso and then changes the arms and leg poses to get some more understanding about body mechanics
.. keep foreshortening in mind !

keep up ! :D

CouchPotato

March 10th, 2007, 02:04 AM

As always, thanks guys, for dropping by!

Lol, power-slouching, I need to remember that term haha. I'll certainly keep working on that one. At least the mood I was trying to convey came out enough that someone can recognize it, which is very encouraging to me ^^.

And sideshowbob, you're right of course. I do feel that my poses are a bit flat. Will try to be more careful during the drawing process on depth.

Just a quick update before I disappear again for a day or so. Some muscle studies on the torso first. I'm sort of trying to get a handle on a proper method as I go along. I'm abit confused about the rectus abdomini. How many divisions are there supposed to be? I always thought like, 6, but Loomis' book had 8 I think? lol.

And I'm completely guessing on the sideview. My library needs time to help me track down that Dynamic Anatomy and Figure Drawing book by Hogarth, so in the meantime, I need to go datamine elsewhere lol.

CouchPotato

March 10th, 2007, 02:10 AM

Here're the attachments!

-sideshowbob-

March 10th, 2007, 09:17 AM

http://www.reybustos.com/04er/er.html

http://www.reybustos.com/03ra/ra.html

http://www.reybustos.com/07i/i.html

click the pics will get you to a loading screen..make sure u check the "turntable" stuff :> good stuff to learn and understand bodys muscles objects as something 3dimensional :D

keep up ! :)

CouchPotato

March 11th, 2007, 10:29 PM

That's an awsome site you gave me there, sideshowbob! Thanks, I'll bookmark it and it'll be one of my anatomical references lol.

Some more updates, and I think for this week, my updates will become slower. Anticipating a heavier workload this week.

So, anyway, changed the feet's position in my power-slouch guy, as per Longxiang's suggestion. Dunno if I got it right though lol. More muscle studies, the torso in perspective. I've got problems with bird's eye or high angle views, need to work on that. Too lazy to draw out all of the rib cage, so I think the low angle view of the serratus major and external oblique might not be quite right lol.....Is it better if I portray the external oblique as one big flat piece of muscle or seperate them?

Next one is muscle study on the arm. This one is gonna be a major headache. Really complicated, and I've only just done the front view. Probably will need to pose the arms in various ways to get a better idea of how it works. Will work on this in the coming week lol.

Last one is something that I think I will take further. I mean, quite a bit further. I don't know yet where it will go, or what else will be in the pic. It's speaking to me very slowly lol. I think I'll just keep working on it until the voice stops or something.

Anyway, leave your comments as usual, and thanks a lot for your patience!

Troll Skelking

March 12th, 2007, 05:46 PM

Hi, Couch Potat! Nice to see you working.
Some crits: The second attempt on the sitting guys foot is actually much better, but still I think you could improve it. My suggestion is to make his foot rest fully on the floor, like if he would stand. Makes it more dynamic in my opinion. I think his pelvis is a bit thin. And the torso should be slightly bent because of the weight.
Nice muscle studies you have, the arms look a bit short in the next-to-the- last picture. If you look at a torso from the birds view, you can see, that the rib cage and the muscles are very thick and so they enfold/comprise ( sorry for my bad english, i am still learning) the head. Maybe you should look for some reference.
The woman`s spine could be more curved and the incline of her shoulders should be contrary to the hips to hold the balance (contrapost).

Again sorry for my English. Keep up your studies, its definitely the right track.

Greetings, Troll

Longxiang

March 12th, 2007, 10:49 PM

ooooooh, nice muscles!

CouchPotato

March 13th, 2007, 03:41 AM

lol, quite tired today guys, and not much energy left haha. just gonna quickly put up some pics and snooze lol.

thanks though, for the comments. didn't know you like flayed body parts all that much longxiang, lol :p

and troll, thanks for all your comments. the arms look too short probably because i drew them thick lol, to give myself space to draw in all the muscles >_> i suck at delicate work haha, but you're right, it's not a good habit to get into, will change that. although the next arm update still has that problem. will fix the sitting guy when i can find the strength lol, maybe couple hours later?

anyway upfates. back view of the arm muscles. still has that too short look, probably because of drawing them too thick. after drawing that i realised this is probably not the best way for me to go about learning this body part. it's too complicated, so i decided to break it up lol. upeer arms first. then later the forearm. sideshowbob's website helped a lot. thanks bob. think i got the gist of the makeup of the upper arm. anything i did wrong please let me know guys.

last pic is the woman thing. took troll's suggestions, changed her shoulder incline, tried to make the spine more curvy, this DOES improve the look, thanks again troll. tried to put in some balcony thing, but maybe not so successful. the pillars are too tall, and the balcony is more like a walk way lol, too wide. and i don't know if i did the right thing by taking the vanishing point for the pillar support thingy all from one source. probably not the right thing to do. gonna go back to reading successful drawing to see if there's anything to help me out with.

anyhow, thanks again for all your wonderful comments. sorry for the rambling nature of this post, really tired. please continue to share your know-how with me, yeah?

P.S. don't worry about your english troll, i can understand just fine, your english is great. maybe a bit of spelling errors, but everyone makes those.

CouchPotato

March 14th, 2007, 01:22 AM

Not a lot of updates for today. Some anterior view of the forearm. And then a BIG anterior view of the forearm lol. What can I say? I really suck at drawing things that are small. Moving on to the posterior view next.

Edit:
The deltoid and part of the pectorialis/triceps on the BIG anterior view (henceforth BIG av....hmmm.....has a vague pornographic sound to it.) is like, transparent coz I wanna draw out the humerous and how the biceps are attached to the shoulder blade.

CouchPotato

March 15th, 2007, 01:49 AM

A bit more updates today than yesterday. I think by now my pattern must be quite obvious lol. Posterior view, along with a BIG posterior (hehe) view and then the outer arm, that's supposed to lie on the same plane as the thumb.

I think I'll need a heck more work on this...I keep forgetting what I draw lol. When I started on the posterior view, I was reasonably certain of my anterior stuff, but by the time I start on the outer plane, I'd forgotten almost everything lol....will have to keep going back and forth I suppose. I hope the next step, which is to draw in different views and position, will help engrave this into my peabrain haha.

Edit:
Just saw that my last pic's wrist is way too small. *makes a note in his memopad* Is my external oblique in the last pic too small as well?

CouchPotato

March 15th, 2007, 05:09 AM

Last update for the day. I'm gonna have to say.....the pillar thingies are tougher than the lady lol.....

CouchPotato

March 16th, 2007, 04:50 AM

Oook, last update for the week. Not too much today, and everything seems to have quietened a lil here.

Still on arm muscles. Forearm's a real b*** Did some pose things with the arms, then added in the muscles. The second guy is still a little weird right now, gonna go back and change it.

Oh well, have a good weekend guys.

Zombie_dla

March 16th, 2007, 05:05 AM

It's amazing how many updates you do, fantastic! :) Really nice muscle studies there. Keep it up!

CouchPotato

March 18th, 2007, 05:08 AM

Thanks man, I'm having a really hard time with the forearm. I'm tempted to go sign up for a dissection class somewhere.

CP

Longxiang

March 19th, 2007, 03:27 AM

Don't you have a forearm you can look at?

The pose of the woman on the balcony is really convincing. It's amazing how much progress you're making here.

CouchPotato

March 19th, 2007, 04:14 AM

I really need to boost my engines again lol, started slacking again. Only 3 pieces to show for this weekend's work. First is some stupid arm studies again, which I probably got all the muscle placements totally wrong. But after making lots of ugly doodles in my scrap book, which I won't show here, I think I'm beginning to get it lol.

And after that is the thigh muscles, as well as.....my first venture into charcoal!!

With disastrous results of course lol. But I'll keep working at it, because it's so much easier to shade with charcoal lol. So much faster.

Edit:

Longxiang:
I'd look at my forearm, but it's a lousy specimen of a male forearm (read:flabbyforearmalert :P ). I'd go cut up someone's forearm and keep it in formalin for me to look at, but I'm preeetty sure somewhere it's written that it's illegal to do so :P

Thanks for your compliment on the balcony woman ^^ Very satisfying to hear that. Lots of credit to Troll though, for suggesting I change the inclination on the shoulders.

Troll Skelking

March 19th, 2007, 11:28 AM

Heyho, Potato!
You seem to be very tough, hehe:muscle: :muscle: :muscle:
Some crits, as always: It looks like the guys deltoid is too stretched and consequently the arms appear too long. And he is missing his scapulae, i think.
Maybe you should take a short break from studying boring anathomy and draw or paint some other stuff, like landscapes, vehicles, figures, whatever you like.

Greets, Troll

CouchPotato

March 19th, 2007, 09:37 PM

lol, i guess i went overboard with the deltoid. i've got someone telling me i keep drawing my deltoid too small lol. guess i went the opposite direction this time. will scale back abit :p

don't really yet have a clear idea on how the scapulae moves with the arms, but i'll find out on that. looking around my area now for life nude drawings classes :D

as for drawing what i like...it's good advice troll, but i haven't the foggiest what i like to draw lol. maybe i'll spend a day or two just doodling

today, my update will be small, because they are sending me out of office for awhile, and i won't be back for the rest of the day.

so, first, side view of thigh, charcoal again. dare i say that it looks slightly better than my last two attempts? i hope so.

next is the lady at the balcony again. added some detail, background stuff to the pic. i spent a LOT of time on it though. I've reaffirmed a healthy amount of respect for background people lol. the lady is like, speed drawing compared to the amount of time i spent on the background stuff now.

thinairart

March 20th, 2007, 02:46 PM

I think your off to a very solid start with your SketchBook.. keep the updates coming! The 1.5 years you spent studying perspective was certainly not a bad thing, that knowledge will come in handy no matter what your subject matter or style... why just yesterday I pounded my head against the wall working on a still life that included a wooden chest. For some reason I had completely forgot the concept of vanishing points until finally the perspective fairy swooped down and bitch-slapped me back to my senses... doh! Anyway, point is its all good.. the best approach is practice, practice, practice- there are a million things to remember, and obviously you can't be focused on everything at once... so take it in a little bit at a time and keep on cranking. PS- thanks for stopping by my SB!

CouchPotato

March 20th, 2007, 09:53 PM

Hey reidaj, thanks for dropping by also. I really really like your rendering style man. Got to try it out for myself one of these days, if I can find out how to do it lol.

Anyhow, so I took Troll's advice right? and just did something silly lol, here it is.

CouchPotato

March 20th, 2007, 09:57 PM

CouchPotato

March 21st, 2007, 04:09 AM

Whew, next update. So I tried my hand at putting some simple clothing on my mannikin. Seems ok, I suppose, but there's something not quite right about this particular attempt. Feet too small maybe? And something else which I can't figure out lol (aside from the fact that I can't draw creases very well yet haha). Anyone want to help me out? Would be much appreciated hehe.

Aaaand more thigh muscle studies! I've discovered a great resource as well. Bartleby's online version of Gray's Anatomy (not the TV series haha). It's a lot of words, but it's really detailed lol.

novenus

March 21st, 2007, 04:14 AM

Taking a basic course in drawing human anatomy might help... are you using a book and a poser to learn to draw the human body?

Don't forget about the quality of line when drawing. it goes a long way to give depth and feel to an otherwise 'boring' subject (see Leonardo da Vinci's anatomical drawings).

CouchPotato

March 21st, 2007, 04:29 AM

Wow, thanks for dropping by novenus. Unfortunately, there are no such courses around my area. The only ones around are like, manga/anime style stuff, which I don't really want to get into lol.

I'm learning from books mostly. Not sure what you mean by posers, but if you mean like one of those art store mannikins, no....although I really should get one, shouldn't I? haha

As to line....to be honest, I've never really given much thoughts to my lines haha. Is it very bad? I'll admit the last one is really messy, but those are construction lines lol, I'm just too lazy to clean it up and pencil in stronger lines. :P If you can point out to me where my lines are weak, I'd do my best to work on it ^^

Oh, and I don't know where your sketchbook is, so can't reply to ya, sorry :/

Troll Skelking

March 21st, 2007, 11:25 AM

Greetings!
Lol, I wonder, how you manage to update everyday.
Here are some crits: The last guy´s right lower leg is a bit short, the feet could be bigger, too. Hmm, his torso is a bit flat, make it thicker and his left shoulder could be lowered a bit because of the weight. The figures could use a stronger core shadow. Here is a good tutorial by Prometheus on line weight and drawing generally:
http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm

I admire your great zeal. BTW if you have time, you could look around in the forum, there are a lot of great artists. Just look at their pictures. I have learned a lot by looking at others´ works and making mental notes of the pieces I liked.

Looking forward to updates.

CouchPotato

March 22nd, 2007, 04:56 AM

lol, thanks troll, but i think compared to some of the people here, i'm a slacker haha.

and just to prove that, i won't have any updates for the coming week :p. I've got some business out of town, so I won't be able to update or draw much lol. might have something tomorrow, but then that will be all until I come back., which will be in april.

also, yesterday evening and today is a bad day for me haha. my head hit the pillow almost as soon as i reached home. and i just can't seem to do anything right today. tried to do the changes troll suggested i do, and i think i made a mess at the right arm. and i tried to do something new today, but it all turned out crap lol, and i tore up the draft. maybe i'll revisit the idea in my sketchbook during my trip.

CP

CouchPotato

March 22nd, 2007, 11:57 PM

Last update for a good while. This is what I was working on yesterday that gave me so much headache.

Used my sketchbook to draw lots of trials until I'm happy with one look, then I moved it to a bigger piece of paper. Still need more work on the large paper version. Feet feels too small for one, and need to somehow make his abs look more rock like or something haha. And maybe a few other things I missed out.

You get mojo points for guessing who the fella is :p

Ok guys, See you all in a week or so.

CouchPotato

April 2nd, 2007, 04:06 AM

Weeee, I'm back after a week's absence! Haven't been able to draw all that much in the time I was gone; It was very hard to squeeze any inspiration out from the place I went to lol, but still I tried my best, so here are some of the results.

So first, I've managed to go through the muscles of the body (except the head, hands and feet, which will be my next few topics), and I drew them out in the week I was gone. Sorry if the lines seem wobbly, I was sick when I did that lol.

After that is a sketch that, which took a lot of tries before I could get it decent lol.

Last is my giant dude guy which I was unable to finish off before I left. Tried some shading. Charcoal, but I'm not sure if I really did it the right way lol. Some of my lines really faded out.....

Zombie_dla

April 2nd, 2007, 08:32 AM

Hey, you granted me my second page so I though I'd return the favour :D Looking forward to see some new sketches here! Nice shading by the way!

minjarr

April 2nd, 2007, 03:22 PM

umm... on the 3D model of the gun or the paintings?

CouchPotato

April 2nd, 2007, 08:39 PM

lol, i didn't think that was a gun, but I was actually referring to the guy above the 3D model. The hero guy? The paint peel was particularly cool, I thought.

CouchPotato

April 2nd, 2007, 09:42 PM

Anyway, just a quick update for today. Reading up on Georg Bridman's book on hands before I start. I hope to have a few samples out sometime today.

CouchPotato

April 3rd, 2007, 04:41 AM

Ok, so, some hands lol. It's uhhh....not quite right looking hahaha, and pretty stiff. Hope it'll improve as I go along. Maybe I should copy the poses in Bridman's books for a bit lol.

Edit:
oh, and thanks for your support zombie. yeah, I reached page 2 as well! hehe

CouchPotato

April 4th, 2007, 03:00 AM

More hands! Lousy looking ones, but I'm giving myself a thumbs up anyway! :p

voetsek

April 4th, 2007, 11:19 AM

your human figures are beginning to look better. the hands still need some work but you probably know that already :D. maybe instead of trying to shade them in (like you did on the last two or three), you could focus still on the form of the hand itself and when you nail that, then try and add shading?

CouchPotato

April 5th, 2007, 11:43 AM

Welcome to my sketchbook voetsek! Thanks for sharing with me your thoughts. Yes, my hands are fugly :p And you're right of course, one shouldn't shade unless he is confident that his shapes are 100% correct. I just wanted to figure out some shading techniques and trying to understand the whole damn thing lol, so I just grabbed whatever drawing I happen to have "handy" haha.

But still, thank you so much for taking an interest!

Next are some further updates I have. I know, they're still fugly, but I'm working on it XD

markey2d

April 5th, 2007, 12:28 PM

you are definetly on the right track, i really love anatomy studies, keep going know one can stop you.

Troll Skelking

April 5th, 2007, 12:38 PM

Couch Potato! Great to see you drawing.
In the last picture the forefinger is a bit too long, I think.

Keep it up , Troll

CouchPotato

April 5th, 2007, 01:30 PM

Thanks for dropping by markey2d! Really appreciate your kind words and encouragement. I've replied to your sketchbook in what I hope is a helpful manner :D

And troll, as always, thanks! You have always given me good advice and criticism (which means that yes, I guess my forefinger IS too long hahaha). Please continue to share with me your inputs! I really value them.

CP

Lake

April 5th, 2007, 08:17 PM

I'm going to start you off with coro's golden rule: if it looks wrong, erase it and try again to do it right.

this is even easier when copying anatomy studies, as you can literally check back and forth to see if you made the line right.

Darktwin

April 6th, 2007, 01:33 AM

What panda has said, also keep working on your anatomy as well as drawing from life. Keep up the good work.

CouchPotato

April 6th, 2007, 12:19 PM

@panda
Sir! Yes Sir!

Uhhh, just a couple of question.....who's coro..? lol sorry for being a nub. And should I copy anatomy studies? I find that copying stuff doesn't work very well for me as a learning process, since I have the habit of getting more involved with the copying then thinking about what I'm drawing lol. Tried unsuccessfully with Bridgman's hand book....but if that's the way to go, I'll continue to do it :D

@Darktwin

Thanks for the encouragement! I've managed to find a place where I can draw nudes. Just need to tie up with some fellows and I'll have more life studies then cubes, cylinders and pyramids lol.

Lake

April 6th, 2007, 03:13 PM

a) please never say nub again. noob, newb, newbie, and all other forms of the word that don't include the letter u or numbers are acceptable. personal pet peeve that you don't have to follow, but I just personally think it looks retarded.

b) good on ya mate

c) in the artist links at the top of the page, coro is the third picture, right next to samus.

d) try to include an image with every post - even if it's shit, it'll show what your average skill set is like so we can give you the most accurate crits.

cheers.

Shylone_Breath

April 6th, 2007, 05:26 PM

keep your studies ! :) you ll improve a lot if you continue that. try to think when you are drawing, gorgive your words think as artist :)

CouchPotato

April 7th, 2007, 01:43 AM

Haha, well Panda, if it disturbs you in some manner, I won't do it again. I usually would include an image in my all my posts. It's just that I have no access to a scanner until next Tuesday since I don't have one of my own, and I just thought it would be a polite thing to do to reply to the people who have graced my sketchbook. If it's not the right etiquette however, that too will stop. After this post I guess lol. Please don't stop coming over!

Shylone_Breath, thank you very much for taking interest! I will certainly continue to work hard. With all the encouragements I've been getting, how can I not do so?

CouchPotato

April 9th, 2007, 10:20 PM

Ok, here's a bit of an update. Some more hand stuff and a couple of figure drawings. Awaiting your comments!

Lake

April 10th, 2007, 10:26 PM

aright - mm - the reason you should try to post an image with each reply is twofold: firstly, you can reply to people en masse and you have something visual to respond to what they said. secondly, it forces you to draw more if you really want to reply.

In terms of the art here; you're thinking too much. consider hands and figures merely as abstract shapes. Stop trying to imagine what they are, and instead draw what they look like.

CouchPotato

April 11th, 2007, 03:44 AM

Thanks for coming by again panda! Although, I don't quite get what you are trying to say...Do you mean that I stop trying to understand what I'm drawing/draw from my imagination and instead should copy my drawings from somewhere? Like my Bridgman books perhaps?

Anyway, more updates. Yesterday was one of those days where nothing seems to turn out right haha. I have NO idea what I was trying to do with the last one....

-sideshowbob-

April 11th, 2007, 08:19 AM

coming great :D

.. use easy geometrie to keep the orientation and direction in space straight.. then just add/change the silouette of the cube or cylinder to any shape u need.. fingers arms legs bellys :P i just do the same helps alot to keep on track and not getting lost in space xD... why learn how to draw this thut and that ? why not just explain how to DRAW and know how to draw this thut and that ? :D the process does not reallychange ..

keep up ! :)

CouchPotato

April 12th, 2007, 05:18 AM

Hey Bob, long time no see hehe, thanks for coming by again! Anyway, I have more stuff. Still just a sort of draft, will add in the missing stuff later lol. Main thing about this set is speed lol...My boss found out that I draw and made me do all these haha, gave me one day to finish them off...>_> Not enough time to slowly go over everything, so there're probably plenty of mistakes (Some I already spotted myself but just...no time ><

Troll Skelking

April 12th, 2007, 07:11 AM

Hey, Couch Potato!
These guys look like some gay boygroup. YOu have made some anathomy studies recently, try to implement them in your figures. The lower torso looks too narrow sometimes. Did you manage to get Hogaths book? Keep the drawing up, you´ll make it.
Greetings, Troll

CouchPotato

April 13th, 2007, 04:40 AM

lol, well, i fully agree with your assesment troll haha. the problem being tight schedule. my boss wanted them all in one day, and sadly i'm not fast enough yet that i can churn out so many figures properly in 1 day lol. i didn't have a lot of time to go over them as i normally would.

i got hogarth's books already awhile ago actually haha, thanks for recommending them to me. they are great, just a bit difficult to use sometimes because its a bit advanced for me, but they are still a great help. Thanks again!

so, for updates, well this is what i gave my boss at the end of the day lol. there are several things about it i'm still not happy about, but i guess my skill level is just not ready to handle the challenge yet lol...(meaning not fast enough)

Zombie_dla

April 13th, 2007, 07:33 AM

Wow, I can see that you're improving! You actualy motivate me to draw more often! Can't let you hit third page before me :) I'll be checking back soon, so keep drawing!

CouchPotato

April 16th, 2007, 03:36 AM

Shit, I made a rival! D:

lol, just kidding :p I'll be the first to cheer you on if you race ahead dude :D

But I won't be far behind :P

More updates, and the topic for this week is....Feet!!

Oh, and really sorry to all you guys encouraging me, since I haven't been posting in your (and others) sketchbooks as often, because I've been busy. And will likely to be busy for the next couple of months. I will still try my best to look through all your stuff though, since it has always been a learning experience for me.

Updates won't be affected as long as I have access to a scanner though :p

dorobo

April 16th, 2007, 06:13 AM

I admire your efforts, keep it up

CouchPotato

April 17th, 2007, 03:37 AM

Thanks for your encouragement dorobo!

Next update. figure drawing.....and some other stuff that I haven't tried for a very very long time lol.

It's not the best out there, but it's by far the best I've ever done, and with relative ease too. It just took me some time to re-discover the techniques. In contrast, back before, the techniques were not the issue, but knowing what to make was.

If I need any encouragements that my efforts the past few months were not wasted, this is it.

Edit:
nails aren't done yet. that's gonna be a seperate piece, or rigging will become an issue later. well, for my half assed rigging skills anyway lol.

Lake

April 17th, 2007, 08:55 AM

no - what I mean is:

you're considering the hand as just that: a hand. BUT if you try to draw a hand, you'll get tripped up by preconcieved notions that you have of what a hand is supposed to look like.

instead, consider the hand as a series of conjoined abstract shapes. Stop thinking that there HAVE to be 5 fingers, that there HAVE to be knuckles. instead, look and SEE exactly what you can see and draw that.

Also, anatomy wise, don't draw from bridgman. He's excellent for form, but not for anatomy.

Arimus

April 17th, 2007, 11:09 AM

heyy mate, i'm back to check things out:D Amazing progress man, I'm lagging behind, ack. I need to stop worrying about everything else and concentrate lol. I'll catch up soon, i swear:P

I'll be back.

Keep up the great work!

CouchPotato

April 18th, 2007, 04:05 AM

@panda

You are really taking some effort to help me out, and I would like to express how thankful I am for that. I pondered your words for most of today. Although I have to say that it's still a bit of an abstract concept for me haha. Sorry I'm slow.

The only way I can interpret what you are trying to tell me is that I shouldn't be too hung up on the science of it, and to draw more from life instead (when you say just draw what you see, that is the only meaning I can summon up).

If this is so, obviously, I agree that drawing from life is the way to go, and I will sooner or later. It's just that it takes time to get things ready (life drawing isn't readily available here).

For now, I'm drawing mostly to get a better understanding of anatomy. I don't really have anything to look at and draw, and it's kind of tough to twist your own hand to some of the positions lol.

The part about seeing it as conjoined abstract shapes, I will need to take your words further into consideration. If it is compatible with what I want to achieve, I will certainly see if I can integrate the idea into my workflow. Right now I can't see how that is helpful for my eventual goal, which is 3D Modelling, but maybe it will become clearer to me over time.

Thanks again for sharing panda.

@Arimus

I remember you were down with chicken pox or something right? Hope you are feeling better! I need to run soon, so, just this update, and then I will check out your sketchbook later, promise!

Lake

April 18th, 2007, 10:03 AM

even in anatomy studies, considering the hand as a hand is going to trip you up. concentrate more on copying the drawing without thinking about what it MEANS and you'll be able to more effectively use the information.

CouchPotato

April 23rd, 2007, 05:17 AM

The more I read what you write, the more convinced I am that you are telling me to draw from life or copy from something, panda. And maybe when I'm copying from whatever source I happen to be using, I should just be concentrating on reproducing exactly what I see rather than use what I think I know, on the subject I'm drawing.

Am I correct, panda? Have I (finally, lol) understood your meaning?

Because if so, I can certainly see the wisdom in this of course. What if I was faced with an object that I haven't studied? For instance, some animal that no one has dissected and studied to such an extent as the human body. Say, a coelacanth. Or some species of trilobite that nobody really knows how it's like. Or an alien lol. Then I would be in trouble because there aren't much data on those stuff. Or even someone suffering from some disorder that causes the hand to become mishapened.

I think this is what you meant, so I went around during the weekends and managed to borrow one of those plaster model of a foot. So to try it out, I drew it the way I used to do my perspective drawing. I went through several drafts to be honest. And it took me a long time each try, because I slipped back into the measuring and the angling of the lines and whatever. Then I sort of started doing a bit of both. I'm still trying to reproduce what I see, but at the same time, I filled in the details that I couldn't see properly, as well as things that looked wrong and had me doubting (you'll see in the drawing that the foot looked like it had 6 toes. It's actually something else lol).

I don't know. It seems like there are merits to both. I mean, it's not as if I hadn't tried before just drawing what I see and not thinking about what I'm drawing. I have to say that I didn't really like that method. I just don't think in terms of shapes. And, I don't know how to describe this properly, but I just didn't feel close to the subject until I started thinking of it as a foot again. I don't feel any connection. I find it even less pleasurable drawing that way haha.

This is something I will have to sort out for myself I think. I'll need time to reflect.

Thanks panda, for taking the time.

Anyhow, updates. Foot, from the plaster model I mentioned. The second foot drawing is the same model from a different angle, but I've returned the model by then, and this is drawn from what I could remember of the model and what I could extrapolate from my earlier drawing. The rest are your standard figure drawing practice.

Number_6

April 23rd, 2007, 06:55 AM

Looking good! The upper arms on the last one look a bit skinny though, especially since they're under a lot of stress holding the rest of the body up. I think they should be bulged out more.

Lake

April 23rd, 2007, 11:51 AM

concentrating on reproducing exactly what I see rather than use what I think I know, on the subject I'm drawing.

Am I correct, panda? Have I (finally, lol) understood your meaning?

You got it, man! And the foot looks great! more of this quality please.

Christian223

April 23rd, 2007, 01:13 PM

Hi, i can see good progress, keep at it.

Now lets see if i can help you a little bit on the copying from life, when you draw, what you are doing is adding less light to the picture, that is the white of the papers is the most high value in your scale of values, that would be lights and reflections like the reflections of a glass or a shiny surface, like a marble ball, or a pool ball, now what you must understand is that each object is made of planes, and when a plane of the surface points facing the light then that surface gets the full amount of light, wich means that you must add no graphite or a very light layer of graphite depending on the local or natural value that the color of the object has, when a surface starts to face away from the direction of the light, then it start getting less light, and you have to add more graphite but not as much as when the surface recieves no light at all, wich would be the darkest dark in your scale of values, but this would only happen in outer space because and object allways recieving light because it bounces in all objects until the light fades away.
So, you must draw the light you see, concentrating on getting the right values, decompose the light in 4 basic values of light, shadow, reflection on the shadow, half light, light, these are the basics of basics, there are more, i recommend getting andrew loomis books and learn from there. Right now you draw the contours as if they where in complete shadow, very very black, you must now get them in the value you actually see them, good luck!!.

CouchPotato

April 24th, 2007, 04:43 AM

Thanks for all your replies guys!

Number_6.
Thanks for the tip man, I didn't think about the bulging out thingy. Thanks for the reminder!

panda.
lol, whew, now that I know what to do, it'll get easier I suppose. I'll see if I can borrow more of those plaster models to draw from haha.

Christian233.
Hey man, thanks for the tips. I'll see if I can't incorporate all that into my drawings somehow.

So my update today will be....very little haha, coz I got lazy today :p

-sideshowbob-

April 24th, 2007, 08:04 AM

you are drawing tons of cubes too :P but u cant see them
and thats why some of those body parts look just flat.. no real volume and no real depth

u should define each forms end and tsart more clearly so u can see the depth and volume of each part and then put it all together

orientation -> form -> proportions -> details -> shading
learning some of the drawing basics helps you to learn everything a bit better and faster.. instead of telling how to draw hands feet faces eyes bla bla bla.. its just.. to tell how to draw.. that includes everything .

that guys hand @last image of yours.. his fingers are bend outwards? :D or his hand is made of glass

keep up !

Number_6

April 25th, 2007, 08:21 AM

I think the big guy's pectorals look a bit... off. I can see what you're trying to do with them, but I don't think you pulled it off. His right one (our left) should be a bit smaller. I think, not really sure. Experiment!

Not sure, but I think his head is a little too small as well, though I could be wrong. The little guy is severly underdetailed in comparison. It's like Batman fighting Tintin (google image search if you don't know who that is). It doesn't fit.

That said, it's pretty good. You did the hands fairly well, especially the one holding the little guy's head. Keep up the good work!

I don't see many faces in your sketchbook, you might want to do some of those if you get tired of all these figures.

CouchPotato

April 26th, 2007, 05:17 AM

Heeey, Bob, nice to see you again XD. Umm, not really sure what you meant by the hand comment, or even which hand lol, but I'm gonna assume it's the big guy's hand haha. Well, I drew a closeup of what the hand is supposed to look like without the head.

6.
I know what you mean haha. I saw the problem with the pecs after I went home to look at it again. The little guy seems lacking in details because....I haven't actually completed it yet :p I have an update on that today hehe. I'll put in the rest of the muscle tones tonight, maybe. (Also, I loved Tintin when I was a kid :D )

Oh, no face, because I haven't actually touched on that yet, and it will be my topic for these two weeks lol. I've actually only started to learn anatomy and figure drawing about 3 months ago. I wanted to at least be able to somewhat project emotions by body language first, rather than rely on faces to convey the emotions for me. Well, I should say that I don't really know if it was the right way to go about doing things, but it's at least a flow haha.

Thank you guys, for stopping by!! Annnnnd, updates for the rest of this week! More to come next Monday!

CP

CouchPotato

April 30th, 2007, 04:10 AM

Updates.

Did a life drawing of another plaster model. This one is a lot tougher than the foot lol, and I had no time to shade it haha.

The rest are face studies. They are all rather icky. I'm trying to get the proportions right first before moving on to study the individual features and putting them in, but somehow, they are not turning out to be very....appealing.

I'm not so sure where I'm going wrong either haha. Any help guys?

loveandasandwich

April 30th, 2007, 04:16 AM

You're very good at feet & expressing motion. Keep going, more more more! I want to see some faces! :D

CouchPotato

May 2nd, 2007, 03:07 AM

Hey, thanks for dropping by 28chelseaslater! I'm working on my faces haha. Trying to find out how to make them appealing, because mine lacks that now.

Anyhow, updates. More faces, and just one figure I did for fun haha.

(I say for fun....but delibrately drawing someone out of balance is a lot harder than I thought lol......)

CouchPotato

May 3rd, 2007, 04:14 AM

Quickie updates, some eyes in various expressions. Hope they are evident in their own rights lol

Troll Skelking

May 3rd, 2007, 02:56 PM

Hey, Couchpotato! Just passed by and want to say you to keep drawing, watch the proportions, and perhaps start some shading. I like the eyes, though cant figure out, what the lines on the cheeks of the first picture of todays update are. Well , I greet you

Troll

CouchPotato

May 7th, 2007, 04:56 AM

Hey Troll, nice of you to come say hello again XD.

If you don't mind, can you tell me what proportions I got wrong? My figure drawing, or the heads? lol. I know my head and face proportions are all wrong haha, and I'm still working on that. If my figure drawing is out of proportion, than I need to do something about it asap, since I've been working on them already for the past few months.

And I really should take some of my old stuff to start shading haha. It will be my homework for today.

So, updates for today! More heads and faces, just to get a feel of the proportions until I can draw them instinctively (these two are just the most recent, not representative of how many I actually DID draw lol), like I did with the figures. And some more figure drawings. I should do more out of balance drawings lol.

Penabled

May 7th, 2007, 05:50 AM

Nice....you are showing good progress....and btw, the life drawing in post #101...the problem is that the head is too small.

For your sketches are you using any reference?

CouchPotato

May 8th, 2007, 05:10 AM

Hello Penabled, thanks for visiting! For the life drawing, I'll scrutinize it again lol. I actually thought it's ok for a 9 head figure haha, but I'll compare the plaster model again with my drawing though, this Thursday, when I get to see it again.

Most of my figure drawings are drawn without references. I did my first life nude drawing last week, but it didn't turn out very good. I need to find a better handle on how to draw from life lol. I was way too slow for the model.

Next, some updates. Some shading attempt. I tried to watch my line weights, but not sure if I did it right haha (I also wonder if I got the direction of the ground shadow right...). Then some more figure drawing, and another head template thingy.

CouchPotato

May 9th, 2007, 02:49 AM

Today's updates.

Filled in more details in yesterday's figure drawing thingy. A new one today, and another head thingy haha (this one is getting old, but oh well).

Troll Skelking

May 9th, 2007, 03:17 PM

Hi, Couch Potato!
The proportions I told you to watch were of the arms. Sometimes they are a bit too long, like the "holdingthepoorguy`sface" guy´s arms in post Nr. 100. In the last image of the same post the guy has too long arms, too. The fingertips have to end about mid-thigh. Another thing is the pelvis and lower torso. Sometimes they are too narrow, yet there are guts and all the things.

I have to admit, that the new update is really well done. You are improving. Keep it up.Though I have two crits:
1. The womans legs in the second image are too straight, take your Hogarth-Bible and look it up, they should be slightly curved.
2. The face in the side view appears too long compared to the whole head.

Eventually I stop to annoy you with my crits, keep drawing and I will keep visiting your SB.

Greetings, Troll

CouchPotato

May 9th, 2007, 11:41 PM

Hey troll, thanks for your awesome comments. I will watch my arm length and pelvic region definitely! And I'll open the Hogarth bible every time I draw now :p.

The head..I admit I still need a lot of work on :/

And please, don't stop your crits! I find them very helpful and not at all annoying. Thanks a lot! I'll find the time from somewhere to make changes on the stuff you noted man.

So, updates for today, I changed the leg rise woman pose abit, because the previous one somehow didn't look quite right. And another figure drawing.

CouchPotato

May 11th, 2007, 04:52 AM

Tiny update for today. Like, real tiny lol. After some crits from someone, changed one of my earlier drawings a bit to make it look more interesting (supposedly, haha).

Zombie_dla

May 11th, 2007, 08:42 AM

Hey, nice updates. Your sketces are getting more dynamic :) Good thing that you changed the leg in that last one, looks more natural now. Keep it up!

Lake

May 11th, 2007, 04:50 PM

you're really reaching man. Some of these remind me of the stuff I was drawing when I first began posting on CA.org. Advice: MORE LIFEDRAWING. vary the weight of your lines in the image. BUST YOUR ASS.

how old are you?

CouchPotato

May 14th, 2007, 04:19 AM

Zombie:
Thanks for the compliments Zombie, they made my day :D

Panda:
lol...Are those compliments Panda? If you're comparing lousy ole me to yourself, even if that was a long ago you, I'll just take it as such haha. As for how old I am....let's just say I stopped counting as of today lol.

Yes, I really need to bust my ass, I've been slowing down (I probably need someone to give me really negative remarks and get me all worked up again...seems as if my engine feeds off negative emotions lol).... I've been doing some life nude drawings. Umm. Those are tough though, because I'm too slow for the model...before I've finished, they were already changing poses. Probably I just need to do it more often.

Also, I'm really sorry guys, that I haven't been taking the initiative to visit other people's sketchbooks. I just don't really have the time to browse through atm because of work. Once the work load clears up a bit, I'll be back to pouring over people's stuff lol.

Anyhow, updates. First are two of the more successful life nude drawings (successful being that I actually managed to finish drawing the body lol) I did. The other one is a shading practice, but it's not very nice, so I need to look at it again later. Last one is just me trying to get a very basic understanding of the bone structure underneath the face.

Zombie_dla

May 14th, 2007, 04:57 AM

Hey, don't give up. Just keep it up, you're almost at the third page! Drawing shouldn't be a chore, it should be fun! I understand if you got alot to do, but just try to draw whenever you got the time. Remember why you came here in the first place :)

CouchPotato

May 15th, 2007, 04:44 AM

Zombie, thanks for your unflagging support. I'm just a real lazy ass :p

Anyhow, updates for today. It's been so long since I drew back muscles that I forgot what they are lol, so I did something with really obvious muscle lines haha. And another figure drawing, and another head thing. This bit is getting boring haha, but oh well, it's necessary.

CouchPotato

May 16th, 2007, 04:47 AM

Updates.

Today's updates are a little thin.

I got really frustrated with my shading, and I didn't seem to know what I was doing, so I went back to shading primitives. Maybe I'll do these for a little while before I really move into shading. (I know, the composition in this one is screwed up, sorry)

And another head thingy.

No updates for tomorrow as I will be out of office.

Christian223

May 16th, 2007, 06:48 PM

Great, i can almost smell the effort :), keep it up!.

Regarding the shading, try not to move the pencil in so many directions to make a value, instead try to move the pencil up and down only, or in diagonals only, try it and see what is the result, i think it will look cleaner that way.

Also, make sure to grab the pencil veeeeery lightly to make the lighter values, and i mean very very lighty, just let the pencil stand on its own weight and move it carefully, this way youll be able to make the shading more smooth, specially on the ball.
On the ball, try to make it so that there are no sudden changes in the values, allways use gradients, try it.

Grimey

May 16th, 2007, 09:36 PM

good progress. still a long ways to go. i agree with what someone said earlier... forget what it is you are drawing and just draw what you see. however, that will take a long time to make it look right, so keep in mind some generic rules, but don't always necessarily follow them.

CouchPotato

May 21st, 2007, 04:25 AM

I smell??? Really??? : sniffs :

lol, thanks for the encouragement guys.

Now for some updates. Some more life drawings. I snuck into a ballet school and watched the students in there, and tried (keyword tried) to capture their movements and stuff lol, but my speed drawing fails. I got lots of junk. But I also turned like a couple of poses into some proper drawings later on at leisure.

Zombie_dla

May 21st, 2007, 05:21 AM

Nice updates! You remind me that I really need to do some poses and movement-sketches. You are way ahead of me in that area :)

CouchPotato

May 22nd, 2007, 05:00 AM

Crummy updates for today. too many meetings and too little drawing...

Anyway, I widen the head as Troll suggested. Have I gone overboard? lol

CouchPotato

May 23rd, 2007, 04:08 AM

More ballet dancers!

CouchPotato

May 24th, 2007, 03:58 AM

Life drawing and shading practice........that might have gone slightly better if I had gotten a lamp rather than just using ambient lighting lol.

1.5 hours to draw and about 45 minutes to shade. Too slow?

CouchPotato

May 25th, 2007, 04:40 AM

More life drawing, and shading practice.

CouchPotato

May 28th, 2007, 05:15 AM

Updates for today. Some simple figure drawings that I have a surprising amount of difficulty with (not sure why lol, they are very simple poses). And more speed drawing thingies from the ballet school.

Oh, I gave the ballerina drawing to the instructor of the class and he seemed damned happy lol.

Looking forward to crits! I'm sure there're lots of 'em!

CouchPotato

May 29th, 2007, 05:01 AM

Lousy shading practice, and one more life drawing is my update for the day. Sigh, I'm not sure why but my pencils just aren't really all that striking. Oh well.

Zombie_dla

May 29th, 2007, 09:46 AM

This page really shows your greatest improvments yet, that ballet dancer looks great :) One thing though about clothing, the clothes you draw looks like they're made of some rally thin fabric. I'm not very good att drawing clothes myself so I can't really give you any good advice, but doing some studies. Keep it up! :)

CouchPotato

June 4th, 2007, 12:22 AM

Quick updates. figure drawings, life drawing, speed drawings. Some mistakes I know I made lol; the bar in the ballet drawing is crooked and slanted. the feet in the life drawing is too small. and of course, still need work on shading haha.

It's coming to 3 months (or over lol) since I started posting in this sketchbook. I think I'm going to do like a mid-way review kinda thing soon. Just to compare how much I've progressed.

CouchPotato

June 4th, 2007, 01:05 AM

One more speed drawing thingy that I forgot to upload.

CouchPotato

June 5th, 2007, 03:50 AM

Today's update. Still trying to decide on the hair. I need to look at more hair styling magazines lol.

And something is weird with the mouth, but don't feel like figuring out anymore today lol.

Also, looking back on my past stuff, I think I tend to go overboard with the wrinkles. Trying to scale back some.

Anubis523

June 5th, 2007, 04:41 PM

I love the fundamental solidity of your drawings but I get the feeling you're not posting the personal stuff. Please do so in the future, fundamentals are neccessary but if you want to show us something more, we need to see more than academic drawings, remember they are useful for bolstering your imagination but without seeing the imaginative parts we have no idea where your art is going. You're doing a lot better than me, keep at it.

CouchPotato

June 5th, 2007, 11:48 PM

Hey, thanks for dropping by Anubis!

I have to say, that's like the most interesting comment I've gotten yet. Would you believe that 3 or 4 months ago, I couldn't do any figure drawings? And 2 years ago I couldn't draw anything, period.

I drew cubes, cylinders, and pyramids for like 1 and a half years (nothing but that), and it was only about 3 or 4 months ago that I ventured into figure drawing.

Everything you see here is pretty much all I have. Not counting the 1.5 years worth of crappy primitives lol, but I don't think anyone wants to see those. And even if they do, I'm not gonna spend all that time scanning over a year's worth of crap lol, I'd grow roots.

Anyhow, today's updates! Well, update rather, only have got 1 haha.

CouchPotato

June 6th, 2007, 09:44 PM

Quickie update. The shirt was a b**** to draw lol.

Gonna do a "mid-term" review thing later today!

Edit: Bah, just realised the crotch is maybe too small.

CouchPotato

June 6th, 2007, 09:58 PM

Reposting with the necessary correction.

Is there a way to edit attachments? This way I won't have to make double posts like this next time lol.

CouchPotato

June 7th, 2007, 05:00 AM

So, here's the mid-term review. The top pic is what I was doing in February. The bottom is what I'm doing now.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Going good I think? :D

CouchPotato

June 8th, 2007, 11:39 AM

For today's update....something a lil different!

And then I'm hitting the sack lol

Zombie_dla

June 9th, 2007, 07:44 AM

Woa, you are way ahead of me on leg studies. You keep improving so keep drawing! :) Also, you might wanna start thinking about what you _want_ to draw and what your goal is. If I remember correctly you wanted to be a 3D-artist or a concept artist (am I wrong?). Do you want to mostly draw realistic stuff or do like fantasy, sci-fi, comics, whatever. Most people do all of those, I think, but everyone has their preferences :)

Renier van der West

June 9th, 2007, 10:41 AM

I sense real commitment in you. Keep the studies up, your doing great!

CouchPotato

June 11th, 2007, 05:13 AM

Lol, wow zombie, it's like, very flattering that you remembered what my goal was. Yeah, I'm trying to move into 3D. Or rather, get better at 3D. As for what I wanna draw....well, I'll do what's necessary for market needs of course, but honestly speaking, I haven't a real preference. Maybe one day I'll discover it!

And thanks so much for the encouragement Renier!

Today's updates. More speed stuff (this time added contours rather than just stick figures). And I made some corrections and shaded the horse. I need a less powerful lamp as my light source, and a better place to put it. 800 watts is a bit too much for drawing lol.....

dmitri

June 11th, 2007, 05:37 AM

I don't know if this has been said before... or if it's of any use... :D
But the quick studies (of movement I have understood?) need much loosening up; you have many heavy lines and it seems like you are a bit too worried about the contour of the figure. If you want to capture movement, gesture, that's what you need to be worried about! Lessen the lines and their weight, have them flow more freely (have no worries of what the picture will look like, this is studying, not pretty pictures), try not lifting the pencil from the paper. Consider the direction of the movement, what is being done, feeeeeel the movement.
Try some really short ones (5, 10 seconds or the like). They might feel strange in the beginning, but with a little push, seconds will start to seem to be enough, minutes some mighty long times.
Btw, do you do them from life or from pictures?

cmoreland

June 11th, 2007, 03:41 PM

Hey Couchpotato, you're coming a long way and getting better and better! Keep up the good work! I myself am beginning to be a Loomis fan. He's got some good stuff going. I wish I had your patience in drawing out the figures!

CouchPotato

June 13th, 2007, 04:08 AM

dmitri:

Thanks for the tips man, they seem most enlightening! I'll try that out the next time I do the exercise. I don't know if I can feeeeeel the movement lol, but I'll give it my best shot!

And they are all done from life (I hid inside a cupboard in a ballet class :P )

cmoreland:
Thanks for visiting cmoreland! And thank you for your compliments. It helps when surrounded with supportive people, in real life and in these forums (of course, you'll always get the one or two negative ones, but they are in the minority lol)

I didn't just take my inspiration from Loomis though. I also used books from Hogarth and Bridgeman.

Alrighty! Today's updates! Quick sketch of my next piece (of junk) haha.

CouchPotato

June 15th, 2007, 04:49 AM

Hey guys, today's update. Added some details and whatever corrections. And realized I have got absolutely no clue how to draw landscape so I guess it's time to head down to the local botanical gardens lol.

CouchPotato

June 19th, 2007, 05:04 AM

This month has been a terrible month lol. I'm slowing down like hell.....Anyhow, today's updates.

First up is some figure drawings again. And I really need to take the time to finish it off rather then let them remain line drawings like that....

The last is a shading practice...for muscle and patience control? lol. The very first box, the leftmost one was an utter failure. But for some reason, the next two didn't turn out too bad. Still looking for a way to get that really fine shading I've seen some of the people here have lol. Mine is really coarse.

CouchPotato

June 21st, 2007, 01:08 PM

Updates for today! Tried to draw another horse, but couldn't get the head to look right lol, so then I did several drafts and it ended up looking not too bad. I think this is a good idea to use on stuff I've never drawn before (drafts). Should probably use it on more regular basis.

CouchPotato

June 21st, 2007, 01:12 PM

Ehhh, forgot the attachments lol

Listing

June 22nd, 2007, 09:20 PM

Good attempts and study. You're getting it. Keep on.

Jas0n 0n a Bike

June 22nd, 2007, 09:34 PM

I just went through the thread and am very impressed with your progress. I'm also amused at the fact that LongXiang took the opportunity to become your self appointed task master. I wish someone did that for me, hahaha. Looks like his pushing helped you some. Really digging how you're getting things near right on on first try, it really motivates me to do more figure studies myself. In fact, I'll go do that right now.

Zombie_dla

June 25th, 2007, 04:00 PM

Great improvment on faces there :) Keep pushing yourself (and when your at it - push me some too :P)!

CouchPotato

June 27th, 2007, 01:08 PM

Hey, thanks for the kind words Zombie, Jason and Listing. Speaking of LongXiang (Yeah, I owe him, and everyone here a lot) I wonder where he's gone off to? Haven't seen him for a bit. I'll pop by his SB later I guess.

Sorry I was unable to respond earlier, but I was sick for the last few days, so big (sort of) update this time round, haha.

The horseman was done when I was sick haha, probably lots of stuff wrong that I didn't even realise.

Then some life drawings, and more speed drawings. I tried what dimitri suggested, but they came out looking like abstract art lol. Something I'm not doing right? Please tell.

cmoreland

June 27th, 2007, 04:59 PM

Hey CouchPotato, try spending a bit more time on your figure studies...draw in the major blocks of the muscles not just the outline of the outer body. Try to visualize the figure doing something and just stop the animation in your head. Loomis has some excellent tips on how to do this...Figure Drawing for all it's Worth...it's all over this site and the web...

CouchPotato

June 28th, 2007, 10:04 AM

Thanks for coming by again cmoreland!

Some days you get it right, and some days you just want to shoot yourself in the face lol.

So I looked at my horseman again without a fever running through my head, and I realized my arm isn't right. But it's already shaded in and hard to change. Tried my best though, but still doesn't look quite right.

And my Academy Award for pure stupidity is the next one. I was actually quite pleased with the way the line drawing turned out. But then I went and shaded it and completely ruined it. I have absolutely no excuse for it man, really don't know what I was doing. So I did another quickie draft drawing with the intention of recreating the same drawing maybe sometime tomorrow. But jeezes, I really felt like shooting myself in the face.

CouchPotato

June 29th, 2007, 03:32 PM

Something a little different today! It actually feels good to try drawing something other than human figures for a change.

Robz

June 29th, 2007, 04:50 PM

studies comming along very well and they are making you better by the day, keep it up.

dierat

June 29th, 2007, 06:16 PM

Whew. Okay, I'm new, and I just read the whole thread in one go. But at least now I'm up-to-date.

Okay, dude. I've never seen such a technical nut as you. You were doing dozens of pencil drawings of cubes and cones and cylinders - are you mad? You *absolutely* need to draw from life, but you're not enjoying the transition b/c you're been doing these stiff drawings of block-ppl. And that's way cool that you put all that effort in; it's really going to help the way you think about porportions from here on. Most ppl hate that stuff. I don't know what you're drawing on in your life-drawing sessions, but I suggest willow or vine charcoal on an 18"x24" white sketchpad. Willow/vine charcoal is really smooth and draws faster than pencil, and you need a big white pad to give your arm the space to draw. And remember, those blocks and cones are for initial porportional use; discard them for human curves as soon as possible. And don't worry how slow you are now; you'll get faster.

Sorry if that came off really condescending, but I really wish I were there to draw with you and show you what I mean. You have a lot of potential, and a lot of that comes from you working your ass off. Kudos and god speed!

CouchPotato

July 2nd, 2007, 08:16 PM

This beastly weather is putting me back to the sick bed haha....

Anyhow.

@Robz
Thanks for dropping by man, and thank you for the encouragement!

@dierat
Hey, thanks also for taking the time out to visit me, really appreciate it! To be honest though, I'm not seeing any condescension from what you wrote. All I'm seeing is sincererity. It would be great if you could show me what you mean, I agree. In fact, if you have a digital video camera and a firewire, you can still do that! :D. I'm always happy when someone makes a comment on my stuff, criticism or otherwise. It's indifference that bothers me. So, once again, thanks for taking the time out!

As for what I use for my life drawing, it's mostly pencils, because it seems more forgiving to beginners like me haha. I can't control charcoal very well yet. At one point I was drawing my lines with pencils and then going over it with charcoal for the lines and shading, but lately I'm starting to put faces into my drawings, and I don't have enough control yet for the "delicate work" lol.

And I find the block drawings to be tremendously boring as well, haha, but walk before you run is what I tell myself hehe.

So with that, I give thee, today's update! Well, supposed to be yesterday's update but I got too sick lol...

Lake

July 2nd, 2007, 08:56 PM

if you're having trouble working with charcoal and instead prefer pencil, I'm thinking you're having a problem similar to many beginners. Often, beginners try to use the charcoal like a pencil, thinking in terms of shapes of form.

Instead, next time you're in life drawing, turn your charcoal sideways and use the side to block in values. Instead of rendering the entire figure or outlining the whole thing, tell yourself to ONLY draw the shadows. This will help life drawing as well as charcoal skills simultaneously.

CouchPotato

July 4th, 2007, 07:26 AM

Hey panda, nice to see you again! I think you described my problem precisely haha. I'll adopt your methods and see what I can make out of it.

And for today....some random doodles including a first, really terrible attempt at portrait (from a photo and totally unrecognisable as the subject, haha).

CouchPotato

July 9th, 2007, 09:13 PM

Huuurm. Somehow, I'm at page 6? Did they change the default number of posts per thread or something?

Oh well. So, here's today's updates! A "Lex Luthor" (no, I wasn't trying to draw him, but he somehow just turned out bald), and some weak attempts at drawing noses and lips in an effort to get them to look better lol.

Lake

July 9th, 2007, 10:42 PM

woa cowboy.

SLOW THE FREAK DOWN.

these drawings look like they have good intentions, but they are RUSHED. you're not considering your first strokes enough; if you were an obvious master of line wouldn't bother me, but such as it is you really need to consider where the foundation marks go.

next time you're copying a nose or lips, slow down. consider for a while exactly where the line needs to go before you even place pencil to paper. bada bing bada boom.

CouchPotato

July 10th, 2007, 07:35 AM

Hehheh, ok. I guess I should think more about where I place my lines. Maybe I can start getting cleaner pictures then haha.

Experimenting with something today. Not sure if it's working out. Will do more work on that as and when I have time.

dierat

July 10th, 2007, 08:21 AM

Okay, I'm back ;D

Yeah, I understand what you mean that it can be a bit difficult to get in the details with charcoal; I usually (in life-drawing) leave out the faces, hands, and other detailed sections and focus primarily on the shape of the body, the structure of the form, and the way shadows fall.

I would suggest for you to make a habit of attending a life-drawing session (at my university they would for 2 hours every wednesday have a model come in for drawings) every week if you're lucky enough to have one nearby, or have a friend/someone you know pose for you regularly, or if all else fails, get out a mirror ;D Vine and willow charcoal are great for sketching the form b/c they work fast and you just rub out your mistakes. You can still get some detail if you're working big enough (ie the 18x24" pad) and you have enough time. But working with charcoal should ideally help you losen your drawings and start to understand the curves that the human body has as well as the value changes that these curves produce.

Just for illustrative purposes on what you can get out of charcoal, here are links to some of my charcoal sketches:

http://www.dierat.com/Sketches/sketch_gesture_fetal.html
(this was about 45 seconds, I think, with willow charcoal, just sketching the form)

http://www.dierat.com/Drawings/valuestudy1.html
(this one took about 2 minutes, and I blocked in the shadows with a jumbo charcoal stick in the fashion that panda mentioned)

http://www.dierat.com/Drawings/studioday1.html
(this one took about an hour, willow charcoal)

Hope that helps! And, btw, with the "condescending" comment, I just felt guilty telling s/o "this is what you should do" considering that I'm still learning too. ;D Kudos!

Lake

July 10th, 2007, 12:08 PM

Hope that helps! And, btw, with the "condescending" comment, I just felt guilty telling s/o "this is what you should do" considering that I'm still learning too. ;D Kudos!

hm. if you're still learning (which we all are) sharing what you've learned is no burden or wrongdoing.

If you stumble across a gem of wisdom that works for you, share it! most often, it's correct, and if it's not, you'll get a polite correcting from someone that knows their stuff. Should you stumble across something innovative, you'll wish you told instead of holding back.

CouchPotato

July 10th, 2007, 09:36 PM

hm. if you're still learning (which we all are) sharing what you've learned is no burden or wrongdoing.

If you stumble across a gem of wisdom that works for you, share it! most often, it's correct, and if it's not, you'll get a polite correcting from someone that knows their stuff. Should you stumble across something innovative, you'll wish you told instead of holding back.

Exactly! Couldn't have said it better myself! Share with me everything you have! That way I can spend less time and effort finding it out myself!

Uhhh...oops :p

But you know what I mean! (that I'm lazy haha). Anyhow, I do have life drawing sessions at least once or twice a week (And if I can't go, then I'll set a composition up on the table and draw that instead). It's just that the past month and this coming few weeks I have a shit load of work to do. It's taking a lot of effort to maintain the "draw for at least 2 hours a day" criteria lol.

So, just a quick update, where I'm taking more time to think where my lines are supposed to go! Is this about right Panda? Or have I got it wrong still, haha?

CouchPotato

July 12th, 2007, 11:18 PM

Update for today, another portrait! Working on shading this atm. Will upload that when I'm done.

dierat

July 13th, 2007, 03:43 AM

Hey dude.

I like the portrait; I think it's definitely a show-of-progress. Are you using your structural lines to break up the body first? I can't quite tell; the paper's so clean. Anyway, one crit on this:

I think his eyes may be somewhat large. In general, you should be able to fit 5 eyes across the face, which means that you should be able to fit one of your eyes between them (which you can) and one of your eyes to the left of his left eye and to the right of his right eye (which you can't). Other than that I think it's really good ;D Kudos!

Lake

July 13th, 2007, 12:05 PM

to get a better idea of your process, would you mind uploading several process shots of your next piece, as well as your reference pic?

dierat

July 13th, 2007, 05:42 PM

to get a better idea of your process, would you mind uploading several process shots of your next piece, as well as your reference pic?

I second the request ;D

CouchPotato

July 14th, 2007, 10:44 AM

to get a better idea of your process, would you mind uploading several process shots of your next piece, as well as your reference pic?

It would be my pleasure to do so! Well, I'll try at any rate. If I'm doing this in a drawing studio then it'd be tougher haha, since I've got no digital camera. I'll see if I can solve that problem somehow.

For this particular exercise, it's definitely too late, although I can upload the reference pic, and give a short verbal description lol.

I drew a quick outline first of the whole composition (including ears and rest of body). work on the shape of the face, fix the hairline, block out the composition of the features, draw the nose, the eyes, the ears, the mouth in that order. fix up the rest of the body. refine everything (corus golden rule of erase until you get it right? lol, you only need look at the chin area haha).

I stuck the photo up on a wall and took my measurements with a pencil and stuff.

@dierat
Thanks mate! You made my day haha. Ehhh, I'm not sure what you mean by structural lines...are those like the cross thing that people generally use to divide the face in half? If so, I had that, but I did it really lightly so I can easily get rid of it later.

As for the eyes, I measured it best as I could....seems right to me, but maybe I got it wrong. I'm uploading the ref-pic anyway, so you can take a look.

And I shaded it! Pretty crappy, couldn't make it as lifelike as some of the stuff I'm seeing here haha. Maybe I'm not patient enough for pencils. It takes for-fooking-ever lol. That's it man, charcoal for me from now on! :p

edit:
lol, now that I look at it side by side.......I got a long, long way to go. Still not accurate enough.

Lake

July 14th, 2007, 11:54 AM

I drew a quick outline first of the whole composition (including ears and rest of body).

your problem stems from STEP 1. I know this is difficult to believe, but you should almost NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER begin with an outline.

EVER.

it constrains the rest of your drawing to be proportional to the outline, and if the outline is even slightly off, the rest of the drawing gets thrown off too.

have you ever heard of chuck close? he did HUGE paintings and drawings of people's faces by gridding them off and completing each grid individually.

CouchPotato

July 16th, 2007, 05:06 AM

lol, and today's struggle is....this!

CouchPotato

July 18th, 2007, 01:45 AM

Errrrrr..........I think I messed up on the hand lol...sigh.

CouchPotato

July 18th, 2007, 09:49 PM

First life portrait. Ehh,....was a.....real experience lol. The model was a kid that fidgets every 5 minutes or so, more absorbed in his PSP then the session. And there was this violin class next door making the most awful ruckus, ugggh...haha

Well, anyway, some comments would be nice.

CouchPotato

July 22nd, 2007, 08:09 PM

Today's contribution.

CouchPotato

July 23rd, 2007, 04:40 AM

Trying to get the hang of charcoal.

CouchPotato

July 25th, 2007, 08:35 PM

I officially think I should draw kids portrait when I'm like, much better lol.

Anyhow, done with one of those vine charcoal thingy. Crits are welcome!

CouchPotato

July 26th, 2007, 09:39 PM

Failed piece of junk from yesterday lol. Oh well, you win some you loose some.

dierat

July 27th, 2007, 06:24 AM

And I'm back ;D

@dierat
Thanks mate! You made my day haha. Ehhh, I'm not sure what you mean by structural lines...are those like the cross thing that people generally use to divide the face in half? If so, I had that, but I did it really lightly so I can easily get rid of it later.

edit:
lol, now that I look at it side by side.......I got a long, long way to go. Still not accurate enough.

Yeah that's exactly what I meant by "structural lines". At first I didn't think you were using them at all; you erased them away so well. Personally, I don't really erase them. I leave most of that stuff and only erase what's wrong/being changed. As long as you're sketching for learning purposes, I'd suggest for you to leave them too. It helps to analyze the piece later and maybe figure out some of the things you're doing wrong or improving upon.

And don't beat yourself up over that portrait from the photo - doing portraits straight on are *really hard*; seriously. They almost always look really flat when done in pencil unless you're using lots of descriptive lines to show where the curves in the face are, and I don't think your linework is that far off from the photo. Portraiture tends to get more fun and easier when you let go of the straight-on and straight-profile views.

I'm sorry that you're not enjoying the vine charcoal that I suggested you use, but I personally think that your charcoal drawings, though you've only uploaded a couple, have more life and and volume than your pencil work. I liked the one in post #178 the best - I feel like the eyes even have more of a 3-d presence, like you were drawing somethings with volume. And since you showed the cylinder and sphere in charcoal - still-lifes are a great way to get the hang of charcoal. I think in the beginning I would draw little stuffed animals (well, it was a smurf doll, if you want to know the truth. I have Papa Smurf and Smurfette, but she's so old she doesn't have her dress or much of her hair left..) and other objects with little detail and very smooth, easy volume.

I know you're struggling, and it's always hard to be in the middle of a learning process and feel like you're not making as much progress as fast as you were when you first started, but I hope you keep at it. And I hope you don't let charcoal make you miserable; I feel a bit guilty already seeing you distress over it. Don't use it if it demotivates you. The most important thing is that you keep at it, even if sometimes it feels like you're getting worse - sounds silly to say that, but I feel that way sometimes ;D

Keep it up!

CouchPotato

July 30th, 2007, 08:32 PM

Hey dierat, good to see you again! And don't feel guilty over the charcoal thing man haha! I have the habit of stressing myself out over nothing lol, so it wasn't anything I wouldn't have done to myself anyway, if you know what I mean. Please, do continue to share with me what you know. I'm here to learn, although I'm a slow learner, so you might have to beat me over the head a few times before I get it, but I will eventually, hehe.

I'm really glad you made me go into charcoal though. I find that I've really started to slow down the last month, and I think maybe part of the reason is that pencil is really slow (or at least, I'm really slow with the pencil hahaha). And anyhow, things are always rough at the start. I'm committed to getting better at it though, because I really like the look.

Anyhow, for today, another portrait piece. There's probably lots that I didn't get quite right still, but the one thing that stood out in my mind for me was that when I drew the structural lines, the lines went over where the highlights on the eyes should have been. It's tough to erase, and so I ruined the highlights a fair bit. I need to take better care to avoid mucking up the highlights on the eyes in the future. Afterall, that's what gives them eyes life!

(Oh, and I tried to do that several scans of the stages of my drawing thing. I really did, but I couldn't because when I start getting into the zone, I just forget all about it lol, sorry)

Sleepy_Head

July 30th, 2007, 08:40 PM

I like this charcoal of the girl. You've done a great job on the proportions of the face. Maybe the only thing that is over done is the shading around the girls right eye.

Some nice stuff in this here sb.

S

dierat

July 31st, 2007, 06:00 AM

This portrait's a total step up. And I see you're starting to think about shading; that's cool. That's another nice thing about charcoal I never think about; the transition from structure to shadows comes naturally, and shading in charcoal is fast and simple (as opposed to pencil) so you can spend your time thinking about where the shadows should be and not worry about the medium. As for the highlights.. I use a putty eraser for vine charcoal drawings, but if you're using a harder charcoal (pencil or stick), then you'd need to use a harder eraser. Or you can try white charcoal, which you could buy in stick or pencil form.

And I have a theory about why you're slowing down. I noticed this on the last page, actually. When you first started drawing, you accepted the you had no experience and eveything you drew were scraps, so you drew tons and didn't worry when this one didn't come out or that one looked off. You just drew, and you were excited (amazed even perhaps?) when you saw immediate improvement. But as you get better at it, you start putting more effort into every drawing, and you start putting more expectations into your own output. It's a normal progression in the process of learning, so don't blame yourself and feel like you're not doing all that you could. Just try to relax and not take your drawings personal, and just make sure that you are keeping it up even if it's not as often as before. It's best if you can sketch every day, even if it's simple (do a structural drawing of a plant while you're waiting in the dentist's office). Maybe you can set a goal for yourself, like "I'm going to upload 10 drawings every friday" and every couple of days, sit down for the evening and do 2-3 drawings. Or if you're really busy, schedule sketch-time into your week. But just remember that the point of the goal is to have something to go for, so don't stress yourself out and make drawing = work.

Oh, one more thing - I wouldn't scan a charcoal drawing in stages if I were you. If you really want the stages, shoot it with a camera. Charcoal's too fragile to be smudged up against stuff a lot.

Kudos!

CouchPotato

August 1st, 2007, 12:23 AM

I thought I'd try my hand at drawing children, but I think this one didn't turn out to be very appealing haha. I'll re-draw this and hopefully the next one is better.

Also, thanks for dropping by Sleepy_Head. I've left a message in your thread already.

And thankyou very much dierat! After some self-reflection, I think you are most probably right. I do tend to take much longer at the stuff I make now, making each as perfect as my current level of skills will allow. I suppose I'm at the stage where it's quality over quantity. The next step up is probably quality as well as quantity lol.

CouchPotato

August 2nd, 2007, 09:43 PM

Ok, so I re-drew the kid pic. It's gotten slightly better...but it's still off, by a very wide margin. It's not.......cute or babyish lol. I've failed to capture that babyish essence or something. Not sure what I did wrong. I will probably move this over to the critic section later to get more feedback.....

CouchPotato

August 6th, 2007, 02:52 AM

Small update. Another portrait!

dierat

August 6th, 2007, 09:26 AM

I think your face structure is really coming along, but there are some porportional issues happening in the last portrait. I don't know if you're aware of these, but it'll help you improve the realism in your faces if you can come to see what needs to change. Mostly I think in this one the eyes and lips are too large for the rest of the face. Do you see what I mean?

CouchPotato

August 7th, 2007, 02:51 AM

lol, hi dierat, thanks for coming by again! probably i think the left eye is too big. anyhow, there's a more serious issue that dashinvaine pointed out for me in the critique section lol, and that is that the neck can't really turn that far. or, you can, but it's not comfortable lol.

anyhow, this is just some quick hand studies from bridgeman's book. i've been doing portraits for the last few weeks, don't want to neglect my other stuff lol.

dierat

August 7th, 2007, 03:28 AM

Yeah she'd look more normal if her shoulder pointed towards us more, which is unfortunate considering how nice the lines on her back are. But my issue with the face is not so much "this eye is too big, the lips are too wide, etc" but that in order for you to have drawn this face, you would have created the structure incorrectly. It's not terribly off, but it does need tuned a little. For instance, the eyes should line up with the nose, and the sides of the nose should *almost* (not quite) line up with the corners of the mouth, etc. Just keep an eye out for making the facial characteristics too large for the face when sketching out the form.

Anyway, keep it up! ;D

Lake

August 7th, 2007, 08:21 PM

hate to say it again: slow down. try drawing those studies again. VERY deliberately. If a line doesn't look EXACTLY right to you, erase and redraw.

CouchPotato

August 13th, 2007, 04:45 AM

Haha, sorry to make you say the same thing so many times Panda. I need to change this scribbling habit. Soooooooo, here are some more practice drawings! Because I'm worried that I might loose my sense of proportions and anatomy for the human body since I've just been doing portraits the past few weeks. Just keeping in practice. And also getting a better sense of form with Bridgeman I guess. I hope my lines are somewhat cleaner!

Besides that I also have that corrected version of that last portrait, as well as the new one. I thought I'd just update them here in my SB as well.

Lake

August 13th, 2007, 10:17 AM

not sure what's going on with the most recent figures. I like the bridgman study, but the people next to it don't have hands! Draw them in - practice makes you better.

CouchPotato

August 14th, 2007, 05:28 AM

lol, what happened is......I did the figures immediately after I came back from some wood sculpting, and I pretty much smashed my face into the sketchbook right after I finished the figures. I had no idea wood sculpting can be so tiring lol. My arms ached for the rest of the day. Didn't help that the work was done outdoors in a blazing sun.

Some bridgman studies on the neck....but I think I have at least some slight proportional problems here. It's quite hard to draw only snapshots of certain portions of the body, I'm finding out. Probably I need to at least complete a term of reference. Palm for the hands, head for the necks, and such like?

Lake

August 14th, 2007, 10:18 AM

CONSTANT VIGILANCE!

anyway.

The reason that you draw small portions without context is because that way you can concentrate on just getting that exact part right. The idea is that you eventually learn how to do it well enough that when you draw a full figure, the linework is already in your hands; in your subconscious, and will come out automatically.

CouchPotato

August 15th, 2007, 08:24 PM

lol, yessum! constant vigilantism. uhh..vigilante....uhh...what you said :p

Yes, I certainly see your meaning. Just that I'm worried I will get my proportions wrong haha. But I guess that will come with practice.

Anyhoo, more neck studies from Bridgman! I'm sorry for the sloppy rendering. I was gonna shade them in the manner Bridgman did, but realized too late that because I drew the image a fair bit larger than in the book, the lines weren't enough to cover the drawing, so halfway through I switched to shading lol. I should just stick to one type of rendering next time.

Evxyza92

August 15th, 2007, 08:27 PM

Thats just detailed, andgood, for the most part, but the part of the neck on the right is higher than the other one, it looks unnatural , everything else is okay.

CouchPotato

August 21st, 2007, 05:03 AM

Ehhhhhh.....Just thought I'd try my hand at designing some creature or the other, and....well....realised I got no clue how to lol, so anyway, this is my attempt at something a little on the more fantastic side....which I'm having a damn lot of trouble with.

First of all, the hands, oh my god, the hands! I'm not sure if I've got all the placement and look correct....and I had a hard time matching up the wrist to the gigantic hand on in the foreground. It just looks really odd lol. I'm thinking I probably exaggerated the thing too much, but it looks like it needs to be that size in order to hold the guy up like that lol....

Also wondering if my composition is all that good. Can't help but feel like there's something I'm not doing quite right here....

dierat

August 21st, 2007, 10:13 AM

Yeah, the composition's a bit wonky. The img is very bottom-heavy, and the couple of inches of negative space at the top aren't helping. Also, when you have something go off the page, even a little (like the pinky on the lower right of the img), that gives the viewer a signal that what we're looking at is *big*, increasing it's visual size slightly. So crop off a quarter inch on the bottom, extend the page half an inch on the right, pull that top-right hand down so it's vertically even with the top-left hand, and cut off that inch and a quarter off the top border.

I'd like to see you work on this some more, fix those hands in the hair, and maybe give some simply shading. Just pick a light source and sketch in where the shadows would go, for practice. It looks like you've really drawn and re-drawn all your paper will allow, though. I would suggest you upgrade to a new piece of paper; just lay the new piece on top, tape a couple of edges so they stay together, and sketch it onto the new piece of paper with a light table (or, for we who hath no studios, use a window. the daylight coming through should give you enough to lightly transfer the drawing). But sketch the drawing lightly. You can solidify your lines, fix some things, and add more detail after the drawing has been transferred.

OR you can be a Busy Little Bee (just watch Gladiator the other night; awesome movie) and draw the whole thing over onto a new piece of paper with your current drawing as a reference. ;D

CouchPotato

August 22nd, 2007, 02:36 AM

lol, I spent the whole night yesterday looking through the COW and CHOW threads. I think I'm going to stop working on this one. I'm thinking most of the mistakes I made in this one probably stems from the fact that I didn't really give the background of the creature much thought before I jumped into it. So..as a bit of a practice I'm going to take up one of the older topics and try it out instead haha.

I'm thinking, probably I'll try the combat medic one from CHOW, since...well, I used to be one :p hehe

I'm going to shoot for finishing it off in about the same time - 1 week.

Anyhow, in the meantime, here's more Bridgman studies haha. (Torso this time)

Lake

August 22nd, 2007, 07:53 AM

I'm thinking, probably I'll try the combat medic one from CHOW, since...well, I used to be one :p hehe

really? badass!

in terms of the bridgman studies, it might behoove you to try copying other linework. Find simpler things to start out with, like the linework in coloring books (no joke, my friend and I buy them to render 'em.) It'll help you understand how to make the line look right.

CouchPotato

August 26th, 2007, 09:46 PM

really? badass!

in terms of the bridgman studies, it might behoove you to try copying other linework. Find simpler things to start out with, like the linework in coloring books (no joke, my friend and I buy them to render 'em.) It'll help you understand how to make the line look right.

lol, Nothing as badass as you're thinking panda, I was only on active for a couple of years.

And the coloring book thing is actually a pretty good idea. I think I'll take it up.

Today's update is a a little larger than usual haha. First off are some concepts I drew over the week for the combat medic CHOW. Haha, the other guys take one week to finish the whole painting and I'm only still at the concept (and the second page got really sloppy as you can see. Gonna take it into a drawing later, and shading it out. My speed is a real major issue lol. And my concept, for some stupid reason, came out looking really Halo, even though I've never played the game. Arrrgh, I suppose originality is also something I have to work on.

The next bunch of updates is something I've been working on for the past month or so. I'm trying to get back into 3D modelling, so this is like a warming up project for me. It's still very much work in progress. I'm trying to squeeze in a couple hours of work everyday. It's slow work(again, my speed), and I'm having to backtrack a lot because I'm really rusty at this stuff now since I haven't done any character modelling for a long while.

I was deciding to work on some humanoid creature or the other, since I don't want to jump into real crazy creature modelling yet. But again I have issues with designing sci-fi and fantasy stuff (not really my cup of tea) so I decided borrow something from the Monster's Compendium from AD&D (I hope no one from WoTC gets mad at me lol). The creature in question is the Mindflayer. There's some text description and a couple of illustrations in the book, and I drew out my templates from there.

I blocked out the major shape of the body, and decided to worked on the extremities before going back to detailing the body. I've finished the head (minus the tentacles). The hands were a fair bit of work, but it's done, and I'm now working on the foot. After I'm done with all that, I will need to weld them all back to the main body.

I have some vague idea of using Z-brush or mudbox to fill in the final details when everything's sort of done, but that'll be a while yet haha. After the body is all done, I was planning to put some kind of clothes on the guy, but I'm still thinking of costume desgins lol.

My biggest problem right now is topography lol. I can't really recall if I'm doing everything right. Also, I'm not sure if I even got the work flow right haha. I'm sure I'm going to run into all kinds of trouble when I'm trying to weld the final models all together. I'm not really looking forward to that part, haha....

Well, I was gonna leave off posting WIP images until I was at least close enough to start rigging or texturing the model, but I think that would have cut me out from comments I could have had in terms of my proportions, anatomy and design (ehhhhh, maybe I shouldn't say this, since not much of the design is coming from me hahaha, but I wanna at least know if my hand looks decent or not lol, since that is something I can truly call mine).

Anyhow, crit away!

P.S
(I'm going to include the template drawings, as well as some rendered views, with the wireframes as well)

CouchPotato

August 26th, 2007, 09:50 PM

Seems like a good idea to split the postings up or something.

dierat

August 27th, 2007, 03:48 AM

Awesome update! ;D I didn't know you modeled! I've been trying to learn Maya, but I'm slow and it's a lot of new stuff to absorb.

Anyway, I think this is a really good exercise, to develop a character and take him all the way through the design process. And it's okay to draw from other artistic creations when you're designing a character, but try to "make it your own" if you can. Improve on their concept and give it your own twist to make it more dynamic and interesting. And as you develop you should (hopefully) be drawing less on the work from other artists and more from life.

Btw, if you want crit on the model, you can post this in the 3d/sculpture section. I don't know how active that section of the forum is, but you could give it a try.

CouchPotato

September 3rd, 2007, 10:23 PM

Moving house is a byatch, hence the lack of updates for so long lol (And most of the 3D stuff has to come to a standstill because the computer wasn't fixed up). Anyhow, these are just some doodles I managed to do during the past week of house moving haha.

Got some really lousy childish doodles, but aside from that I've also tried to draw a super heroine. That was a really interesting exercise because again, I have no experience with designing super heroines. So I sat down and thought out just what a super heroine should look like...when it hit me in the head like a hammer.

Big boobs and a spandex costume of course!! Easy peasy! But then it still didn't look quite right, until once again, the light bulb went over my head. UNDERWEAR ON THE OUTSIDE!!!!

So I flipped through some Victoria's Secrets catalogues looking for some reference on what kind of lingerie I can put on my super heroine on the outside. There were some really nice and sexy looking designs, but most of them I felt wouldn't have stood up to much of even just a cat fight, much less say battles between super villians. But I thought maybe one of the super powers of the super heroine could be to protect her lingerie on the outside? Shrug.

In the end though, what decided me was....too much lace, which I don't really know how to draw and it looks like too much work anyway. I just settled for some kind of half-cup swim suit instead.

Lol, more updates on my 3d stuff if I can later. Oh, and dierat, I'm posting some of these stuff at CGTalk as well. Haha.

CouchPotato

September 3rd, 2007, 10:25 PM

lol, forgot the attachments

CouchPotato

September 4th, 2007, 04:12 AM

Just a quick update on the 3D model. The foot is about 80% complete. There's still some issues with it, but I'm not sure how to solve it yet haha. The body's coming along nicely. Well, I feel anyway haha.

CouchPotato

September 5th, 2007, 04:57 AM

Finally finished the line drawing for the CHOW Medic thing lol. I realised that, without that red cross sign, actually, it's very hard to tell that the character is a medic of anykind..lol. Not sure how to solve that problem, so I decided to put him into a situation where it is a bit more obvious? Haha, hence a fireman's lift. But probably showing him in the middle of treating an injury would have been better....but the only scenes I can think of that will make it look dynamic and interesting is a lot of work haha. I don't think I can yet do all that in the time limit I've set for myself lol.

CouchPotato

September 6th, 2007, 04:31 AM

Added some background stuff into the CHOW thing.

CouchPotato

September 12th, 2007, 04:38 AM

Whew, no updates for quite some time haha. Scanner's down, so I can't upload any drawings lol. Got some updates on my model however. It's nearing completion, the only thing being, I'm not sure if the topography is right, If it's wrong, might have to restart hahaha.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/couchpotato_bucket/fullbody.jpg

mono2k5

September 15th, 2007, 08:50 AM

wow, your bridgeman studies are looking GREAT! keep doing those! your 3d is looking good aswell. No points of critique here! Keep sketchin

Sawa

September 15th, 2007, 09:54 AM

try to also think 3d when youre rendering your pencil drawings. i think at some points you are not sure where to put the shadows/light or you dont bring them out enough, for example in this (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=169007&stc=1&d=1184424236) one.
the latest portraits look well though. also great bridgeman studies :) keep doing those

Maestro Andres

September 15th, 2007, 10:04 AM

I like your bridgeman studies as well, those should help you improve a lot. The portraits are in overall alright, but I still see some minor problems, like same size eyes on #185 and the guy's nose in #191 seems bended, just minor stuff you will get right by keep practicing. Faces are hard and complex, but you will get there :)

I like your 3d work as well, which program are you using? I am doing 3d too, mainly Maya and starting some on Mudbox, maybe we can share some help with those.

CouchPotato

September 15th, 2007, 11:01 AM

Thanks, mono, thanks Sawa, and thanks Maestro! Thank you all very much for dropping by!

You are right of course, Sawa, this form and lighting thing is really something I have to work on a lot more.

Maestro, I'm using 3DS Max. My interest is primarily in modeling. I'm not sure how much I can share with you, but I will definitely share what I do know with you. Do you post in CGTalk as well? That place is a wealth of information on anything 3D related lol.

mono, thank you for your encouragement! I will definitely keep sketching.

I have finally finished up enough of the model to stop working on it for a bit, while I go design his costume lol. Here are some renders! Lately I have been working on some exercises from Loomis' portrait book. It's nothing much, just some repititive exercises but I will upload when the scanner is fixed!

Edit:
I have NO idea why one of the leg in the render is always thinner then the other. It doesn't look this way when viewed from the front viewport. And each half of the body is a mirror instance of the other, so there should be nothing wrong. But it's there anyway. Weird)

Sawa

September 16th, 2007, 07:43 AM

i dont know much about 3d modeling but the last one looks fine to me so far :)
if you get workin on it, just add some more details and structure to it

CouchPotato

September 17th, 2007, 10:16 PM

Thanks Sawa! I need to make myself learn zbrush to do the details. Gimme a couple of weeks :D

Managed to borrow someone's scanner, but the quality is not as good or something haha.

So I have some concepts for my creature's costume, because, like you know, it won't do for mindflayers to walk around nekkid D:

Also, I have to like, take an hour and a half train ride to and fro work. I usually catch up on some sleep, but it seems like a waste of time so I've been pushing myself to draw while on the train too. Buuuuut......vehicle rocking puts me to sleep like a lullaby lol, hard to break the habit.

Anyhow. I started off with some simple stuff like the practice drawing Andrew Loomis had in his drawing Heads and Hands book. Since I seem to have a fair bit of problem drawing heads from the imagination, I thought maybe this practice is what I need.

And then a 10 minute portrait sketch of a fellow passenger!

Lastly a new portrait!

Maestro Andres

September 17th, 2007, 11:46 PM

Looking good man, good decision on deciding doing the Loomis studies. I will start doing those soon, and from what I heard they are great for studies. Just keep practicing with those, and you will get better at it. Plus, doing portraits once in a while will help you getting better too.

An small thing that bothers me with the last portrait is that his right eye is bigger vertically than the left eye (hope that makes sense). The other thing, which is minor, is that since your light comes from the right, the highlight on the left iris should be brighter than the one on the right one. Another suggestion, it will help if you add some texture when doing hair, some lines to show some flow that way it will look more like hair than a solid object.

On a side note, your 3d model is looking interesting. Keep looking forward for the version with the costume :)

CouchPotato

September 20th, 2007, 10:30 PM

Hey Maestro, thanks for pointing out the error to me lol. I fixed the highlight thing, but can't do much about the size of the eyes lol, since it's already fixed.

The clothing is turning out to be somewhat harder than I thought lol. I need to go learn about seams and cuts and stuff haha.

Anyhow, just a simple life drawing, coz I haven't done one for so long.

mono2k5

September 22nd, 2007, 06:46 AM

the study is ok, but try and get more perspective in the figures, build them up from basic structures like the cube, and then cut out and add.
SKETCH SKETCH SKETCH!!!

Sawa

September 23rd, 2007, 04:00 PM

hi. nice to see you study some heads :) the last portrait looks good.
go on with the studies and maybe also do some anatomy ;)

CouchPotato

September 23rd, 2007, 11:44 PM

Thanks for dropping in guys! So, I've sort managed to put some costume on my 3D fella. lol, I remember why I hate fabrics now hahaha. At this stage, only the lower half is sort of done, but it still needs some tweaking later, because there's too much unnecessary folds atm.

CouchPotato

September 25th, 2007, 05:03 AM

Managed to hook me up a mentor! So here's the first assignment haha.

Sawa

September 28th, 2007, 07:44 AM

hey man :) these figures seem to be a nice idea, they might help you in figurering out dynamic poses etc :) go on with them
dont forget to post some paintings for me lol

Maestro Andres

September 28th, 2007, 11:23 AM

Yeah man, those figures will help you a lot and congrats on taking the step to be mentored. That will help you a great deal. I was thinking on joining that same mentorship since I am basically doing the sames studies now, but right now... well, time is my greatest enemy :D

Anyways, are you going to animated your character? It will benefit from textures too. Don't forget to keep posting!!!

CouchPotato

September 28th, 2007, 12:55 PM

Hey, thanks for the encouragement guys. I'll get the paintings up soon. Monday or Tuesday next week maybe?

As for the texturing....well, I need to try and remember the UV stuff lol....but the models are not yet done, they still have to go through zbrush first, but I'm still trying out that software, and I'm having a lot of grief with the damn interface lol.

So, while I bang my head against zbrush, I thought I may as well start work on the second model in the project, so here's the design template I've just kind of roughed in atm.

funfetus

September 28th, 2007, 01:23 PM

Man -- I just skimmed through your sketchbook, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone take a more perfect approach to learning to draw. You're showing a lot of improvement already. There's still a long way to go, but the way you're going at it, you're gonna get there eventually. I'm very impressed. Keep it up!

Maestro Andres

September 28th, 2007, 02:54 PM

Hey dude, I am sort of in the same boat as you with 3d!!! I just learn my way in Zbrush last week in 5 hours of messing around and watching tons of tutorials. I learned it more for painting textures directly on the model. Also, I will be teaching myself the whole UV mapping and texturing these weeks, so we could help each other out as we are learning these things :D

CouchPotato

September 30th, 2007, 11:15 AM

Hey Maestro, I think it'll be a great idea to share, although I think perhaps you will be sharing more with me instead of the other way round lol. If there's anything I know I will definitely be happy to share with ya!

And funfetus, that's a real nice thing to say, although I think lots of people here already know this "perfect approach" lol, which is really just lots of practice and not giving up.

Anyhow, my 2nd mentorship assignment!

Maestro Andres

September 30th, 2007, 07:07 PM

Good exercise man. Just keep remembering the proportions for your figures. Even if you block out hands, remember that they should be big enough to cover most of your face.

The 3d thing sounds good. I just have a hell of a time getting displacements maps to work. Luckily internet is such a nice thing to learn with tutorials and videos. Keep it up!

CouchPotato

October 1st, 2007, 10:42 AM

Lol, yeah, my proportions are waaay off for this one.

Anyhow....I'm going to do a quick upload of one of my painting attempts. This isn't actually the first one I tried lol. I was doing a few on canvas, but I found the medium exceedingly difficult to control. My drawing attempts with the brush is really wacky. Not only that, but the paint is too lively for me to get a proper grip on atm. So I decided to switch to plain paper for the moment, to get used to it first lol.

So far, all my "painting" is in gray-scale. Trying to get the hang of it first before going into color.

And the second upload would be another mentor assignment, second exercise for this week lol.

Sawa

October 1st, 2007, 02:55 PM

hey nice painting :) looks good so far, lightning etc looks right to me
take care about your proportions in the figure drawings, as maestro said. in some of them i think the heads are too big
keep on dude ;)

CouchPotato

October 2nd, 2007, 11:23 AM

lol, thanks sawa.

some new batch today as well as some more paintings. lol. The plate of fruits was done on canvas, but i had a lot of problems with it lol. also, sorry for the lousy quality, it was taken from a camera haha.

ajvenema

October 2nd, 2007, 11:41 AM

hey dude, love that u also work from loomis! the man is a genius i think:)
im at the heads book now, and i think im gonna move to the bodies book soon, since what i see from it is that people really lrean how to draw bodies from it, ur a nice example of that:)

Sawa

October 5th, 2007, 07:40 AM

hey man stuff is looking good so far.
dunno if its because of the photograph of the paintings but remember to let the darkest parts be black and the brightest parts white. ;)

JS Neo

October 6th, 2007, 12:14 AM

Hey,
I just realise you posted in the singapore cg forum too. Recognized your mind flayer model. :) I see you have been working hard... and improving alot.. Good job so far... Hope I can also have the same determination as you.

Maestro Andres

October 8th, 2007, 02:17 PM

Actually that is a good approach the one you are doing about focusing on values instead of color. Somewhere I heard that the eye is more susceptible to value than color and because of that value becomes the most important element at describing shape, depth and form. I recommend you you learn that well, do some still life drawings until you start seeing the shapes of darks and lights. It just takes practice to train your eye. Once you overcome that, then you can have all the fun with color, since with color there are infinite possibilities but even with that, the essential light/dark of any piece is very important. Keep it up man.

CouchPotato

October 9th, 2007, 11:11 AM

Thanks a lot guys. I'm sticking to the values things for a while lol. I tried a color piece to disastrous results....

Hoookay, some mentor homework.

cmoreland

October 11th, 2007, 09:18 PM

Wow, I missed a lot of updates! How long did it take you to learn 3D rendering?

mono2k5

October 13th, 2007, 08:08 AM

good figures, just try and get more motion in them and they will look more realistic

Sawa

October 14th, 2007, 06:24 AM

nice ones, dont have anything to crit right now ;) just go on

CouchPotato

October 14th, 2007, 10:54 AM

I've been neglecting you guys and my sketchbook for the past few days, and the reason is....I've been working exclusively on this for the past few days. It's been very hard work, and I'm afraid the technical challenge is such that I've been totally consumed by it while working on the face. I haven't been able to spare much thought for getting the face to look right, so I don't think it looks anything like my concept either haha. At least I got the proportions correct.....I think....well, the face is very broad with a very square jawline, but that's how the person is like.

I've started and restarted this several times, trying to find the best way to model this stupid thing. The hardest part is trying to maintain a base mesh that is high enough resolution that all the details can be modelled in, and can be rigged easily later on, but keeping it low res enough that changes can be made without having to deal too much with pinching and dimpling....I'm afraid that I'm nowhere near the mark yet, with regards to refining a decent modelling method, as well as my topology, which doesn't look quite right...

Anyhow I'm damned tired....and I stink lol....I think I haven't taken a bath for a day or so. I'm going stop now and relax for a day or two lol. Shut my brain off and let the boys in the basement work on it....I'm sorry to be neglecting the guys in my SSG, but well, this thing's taken up more attention than I expected lol.

Evxyza92

October 14th, 2007, 10:57 AM

You have alot of nice studfies here man , loomis is helping you man keep digging through man.

cmoreland

October 14th, 2007, 10:05 PM

3D Modeling, yes, sorry about that. Anyway you're doing outstanding, I've dabbled enough to know it takes a lot of patience and practice! Last thing I attempted to model was a custom Quake2 character model. Skinning or painting the models was the most fun though :-)

Maestro Andres

October 14th, 2007, 11:32 PM

Don't stress too much out man. It all comes with practice, it would have taken you a lot of time, but the more you do it the faster and better you will be at it. Proportions looks good, about the rest of what you are talking I wish I knew more about all that, I just know that low res and topology are things to watch out for. I applaud the effort your effort and patience for doing this, so keep it up (:muscle:

CouchPotato

October 16th, 2007, 12:38 PM

Thanks guys. I have to admit to feeling awfully drained the past few days. I think I need to pace myself better....no point crashing myself out to the point where I can't do anymore work lol.

Anyhow, just some thumbnails I did for Dimagyan's next assignment....

Sawa

October 17th, 2007, 12:28 PM

hey man these are looking good so far :D
keep an eye on the proportions and maybe do them on a bigger format next time ;)

Maestro Andres

October 18th, 2007, 12:16 AM

Hey man, Dimagyan's assignments has been good so far. I will have to agree with Sawa about working larger. One of the main reasons is that the larger you draw, the harder is to get proportions right, and the more you will improve! :D

Also, let's say if you take a life drawing class, working larger with 10 to 15 min poses, will not only help you improve proportion wise but also in speed. Keep that in mind. I would suggest something like 3 to 4 figures per page on A4 paper, I think that is a good start, in the end it is up to you.

A good advice I received from my drawing instructor, is to "Remember always to challenge your self."

NOW DRAW!!! hehehe :P