Interactive Base model (Femme) [Archive]

Adam

July 4th, 2003, 01:38 PM

and sometimes women's waists have to accomodate for things like internal organs ;) I think Erik is just trying to say that the game industry and 3d graphics have rather filled their quota of mid-90s comic-book-physique females. Doesn't mean there isn't a market for it, but it's not the most creative angle to take. I'd encourage you to push your creativity a bit more - if you're going to exaggerate the female body, you could try something like they did in "Lilo and Stitch" for example - there are ways to exaggerate the female form without turning it into a run of the mill turbo-bimbo with a g-string and chainsaw :)

Grooveholmes

July 4th, 2003, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by Adam
and sometimes women's waists have to accomodate for things like internal organs ;) I think Erik is just trying to say that the game industry and 3d graphics have rather filled their quota of mid-90s comic-book-physique females. Doesn't mean there isn't a market for it, but it's not the most creative angle to take. I'd encourage you to push your creativity a bit more - if you're going to exaggerate the female body, you could try something like they did in "Lilo and Stitch" for example - there are ways to exaggerate the female form without turning it into a run of the mill turbo-bimbo with a g-string and chainsaw :)

Pfffft, whatever man. What you're saying is totally subjective. And completely besides the point. I'm merely using the reference material that was available. Please take your opinion elsewhere.

Adam

July 4th, 2003, 10:49 PM

i wasn't trying to bang your efforts man. i do think you could take your work further though; it was meant as encouragement. if you saw it as anything else, i apologize. If you want c&c that is more directed, I would encourage you to post larger pictures and also wireframes. I'm not sure what response you were expecting otherwise. Best of luck,

Adam

Grooveholmes

July 5th, 2003, 01:01 AM

This isn't as much of a 'concept' piece as at is me getting reaquainted with polymodeling.. low poly modeling for that matter.

Ok, I'm trying i different method with these for creating muscle mass, and i know its a little unorthodox. If it doesn't work i've got prior saves to go back to...

http://users.sisna.com/jollyjohn2/imagedump/steam/chicka4.jpg
http://users.sisna.com/jollyjohn2/imagedump/steam/chicka5.jpg http://users.sisna.com/jollyjohn2/imagedump/steam/chicka6.jpg

Erik

July 5th, 2003, 09:27 AM

I do something like that too but i prefer doing it one edge-turn or cut at a time, then clean up a little. Otherwise i get confused ;-)

The model shape is getting there though!

E.

Erik

July 5th, 2003, 09:29 AM

LOL Adam, i agree. However, everybody has their opinion and if the execution of the model/concept/... is good i have no problem with chicks that wave around their two obvious strong points ;-)

I just thought it was going to be realistic at first.

Grooveholmes

July 5th, 2003, 12:06 PM

http://users.sisna.com/jollyjohn2/imagedump/steam/chicka7.jpg http://users.sisna.com/jollyjohn2/imagedump/steam/chicka8.jpg

Grooveholmes

July 6th, 2003, 01:54 PM

I started on the head last night...
http://users.sisna.com/jollyjohn2/imagedump/steam/chicka9.jpg http://users.sisna.com/jollyjohn2/imagedump/steam/chicka10.jpg http://users.sisna.com/jollyjohn2/imagedump/steam/chicka11.jpg

Erik

July 6th, 2003, 02:14 PM

I dont really understand what the blue lines are for ... ?

Grooveholmes

July 6th, 2003, 02:24 PM

Actually i'm not entirely sure,, i'm doing this guys tutorial. (http://www.ant-online.co.uk/) And he doesn't really explain why, besides just to define muscle mass, i can always get rid of the extra stuff easy enough.. I'm not entirely sure how that process will stand up to being animated.

Triton

July 6th, 2003, 03:14 PM

The blue lines indicates where he has split the polygons. It´s to accent the edges of the big muscle groups, to bring more detail to the model. ....I guess

behemot5

July 6th, 2003, 03:40 PM

pleaaaaaasssseeeee...don't reduce her boobs :D you are absolutely right ..sometime it's good when they are huge :p :D :chug: (it's a joke)

Erik

July 6th, 2003, 05:13 PM

Hmm....

It seems to be a different way of doing edge-loops. Those should run along muscle groups (not always because that could get in the way of animation) too. But are you sure that you're going to be able to clean that all up? The tutorial doesn't seem too helpful in that respect ...

Good luck and i'm really curious if it'll work out for you!

gasmask

July 6th, 2003, 05:16 PM

i think the proportions are off on her, the legs arent as long as the torso they seem to long to me its cool though

Grooveholmes

July 6th, 2003, 06:30 PM

yeah i'm not sure if it'll stand up to animating, as far as cleaning up it will be simple enough to select all the hard edges at once and delete them, it just takes two clicks:chug:

gasmask

July 6th, 2003, 07:02 PM

haha yeah, well its better than i could do, im still new to modelling but im hoping to do alot within the next year.

Erik

July 7th, 2003, 06:22 AM

What program is it, and if it's Maya, how do you select all hard edges in two clicks?

Grooveholmes

July 7th, 2003, 09:16 AM

Yeah Erik, Maya....

the option is under Display> Custom Polygon Display. The option is to show only hard edges.

Landmate

July 7th, 2003, 05:36 PM

just a personal preference, but I'd make the chest smaller.

it looks pretty good over all, the side profile on the torso looks a bit strange. Seems really low on the polys, in this day and age, you can probably up the count two-fold or even more and still be at practicle count for games these days. And even more for games to come.

-B

Grooveholmes

July 8th, 2003, 01:20 AM

http://users.sisna.com/jollyjohn2/imagedump/steam/chicka12.jpg
Yah 'mate i'll probably slowly refine and add detail.. but i want the major shapes and form blocked in before i go overboard with the count.
Its mainly an excersise, to prove to myself and game companies i can do low poly stuff.. not sure if i'm pulling it off well or not :confused: no telling if this'll actually make it into anything. I guess the next step will be to make some hands and bring it into deep paint.

:nana

schnitzel

July 10th, 2003, 05:51 PM

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN MEN TRY TO MODEL THE FEMALE BODY!!!

Grooveholmes

July 10th, 2003, 06:01 PM

:bsflag:

schnitzel

July 10th, 2003, 06:14 PM

:chug: :D :thumb:

Landmate

July 10th, 2003, 06:30 PM

:afro1:

mtomczek

July 10th, 2003, 06:39 PM

:bootyshak: :nerd: :fight:

Anchuvi

July 14th, 2003, 06:13 PM

Hey guys!

Glad to see someone is using my tutorial :D

http://www.ant-online.co.uk/downloads/ModellingGuide/Final_sml.jpg

Grooveholmes

July 14th, 2003, 09:44 PM

Cool Anchuvi, since you're the writer of the tute, do you have any suggestions on my progress? ...I'm curious to how well the models animate with the added muscle definition.

Anchuvi

July 15th, 2003, 03:15 AM

One of the main reasons for mapping the muscles lines is to achieve better deformation when animating.

I know its not possible to get every muscle precisely mapped but just a general idea will help.

Your model is looking cool! One suggestion though is to try and smooth her out a bit. Create nice flowing lines...

Also if there are any suggestions on the tutorial please let me know, I am thinking of rewriting it but in much more detail so any input would be appreciated.

WerxOne

July 15th, 2003, 11:30 PM

god why do people think that a female character has to perfectly proportioned, supermodels may be the only people on the planet close to haveing a perfectly proprtioned body and whos to say they really have them, anyway i like boobs big little fat saggy whatever there pleasant to look at, they have thier own beautiful lines and form, if he was to model a fat girl would you tell him to make her skinny because she looks out of proportion, and lots of guys play video games and laura croft has proved that boobs sell, so give it a rest, your model looks good, i am very curious to see how some of the parts animate, mainly the ass, or the area just above her crack, (or lower back if i affended anyone) my spelling probably is the most offensive. looks like you migh run into problems there. sorry for the letter

now that ive seen the tutorial, the final model in his tutorial looks like it should be fine for animating, interesting style of modelling ill have to give it a try

Anchuvi

July 16th, 2003, 03:09 AM

I have to agree with WerxOne, being in the games industry it does get a bit cliche seeing all these comic style females all the time on the net and in games.

The sad fact of it is that sex sells!

Say you were making a movie and the main character was female, you would cast someone who was attractive to appeal to a wider audience so your movie would do better at the box office. Imagine if they had cast three overweight, ugly women to play the leads in Charlies Angels, I don't think it would have the same appeal.

People will always bitch about how women are portrayed in computer games, and although they are getting better, (less outrageous proportions) I think they are here to stay simply because they sell.

BluePencilArtist

July 16th, 2003, 07:47 AM

It is looks like Lara Croft body to me.
Looking pretty damn good.....
Women have large breats, I don't have problem that....
:chug: :beer: :chug: :beer: :chug: :beer: :chug:

Anchuvi

July 16th, 2003, 08:59 AM

The tutorial was actually based on this little lady -

http://www.imagescentral.com/images/full/12278/wb010607.jpg

http://www.imagescentral.com/images/full/12278/wb0110.jpg

Sara Pezzini and the Witchblade...

Adam

July 16th, 2003, 12:11 PM

just to play devil's advocate here, yes, sex sells, but non-hyper-sexualized representations of the female form sells quite a bit better ;) the Sims has easily outsold the entire Lara Croft franchise, and they fall a little short on the hyper-sexualization...as far as character design goes, just giving a character boobs, spandex, and a liposucted waistline is the biggest cop-out ever. There are plenty of attractive and intriguing female characters that aren't even film-star quality - to use an example from comic books, Terry Moore's Strangers In Paradise features realistically proportioned women who are exaggerated but not sexualized. Sex sells to the 13-25 year old male nerd audience that video games and most cg work already caters almost exclusively to. If you want to really sell something (like the Sims) you have to create a character that's capable of having emotions and engaging the player; there's a reason that porn stars don't get big roles in feature films ;) it's hard to take an actress or actor seriously when they're insanely well-endowed. They have to be given special roles - for example, Arnold's roles in action movies are almost always a little tongue in cheek, unless he's playing a damn robot. this is because the normal person can't identify with him. the same thing applies to hyper-sexualized female characters - the bigger you make her "guns", the smaller you make her waist, the less capable your audience is of really connecting with her.

Anyways, this isn't a crit of this model, I realize that it's more an animation/modeling experiment than anything else - this is just early morning crankiness :) anyways, flame away...

Grooveholmes

July 16th, 2003, 01:15 PM

Adam. Dude, its all subjective man. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean other people won't. Besides, You're comparison with Sims is way off target, they have nothing to do with each other. They are entirely different genres. Not only that, i'm sure the majority of people playing the Sims choose to have thier bimbo sim walking around without clothes most of the time. For you to call it a cop-out is really starting to piss me off. So you're saying is this character is incapable of conveying emotion?:rolleyes: Do me a favor and don't post in my threads first thing in the morning, ok.

Adam

July 16th, 2003, 01:55 PM

Well, since most of the people I know that play the sims are girls, I doubt that their bimbo characters strut about with no clothes on... and no matter how many rolly-eye smilies you post, it doesn't make me wrong. It is more difficult to identify with hyper-sexualized characters than otherwise. I'm quite sure that most gamers feel more emotionally attached to Abe or Munch from Oddworld than they do to the utterly synthetic Lara Croft. Lara = unrealistic action figure, Abe + Munch = characters. While this is technically "subjective," it should be obvious.

I am saying this character a "cop-out" and is incapable of conveying emotion, because it simply imitates the trend toward hyper-sexualization begun in earnest in mid-90s comic book art, and because of this the audience is incapable of identifying with her. This is by definition constructive criticism, and the reason that most people post work here on conceptart.org is to receive said constructive criticism. I think that you have really excellent modeling skills, and a keen grasp of human musculature, and that you could do work much more interesting than this female model (this is the subjective part - many people have already posted that they are more than satisfied with your work. Just because they are doesn't mean I am - at the same time, it doesn't mean you need to. After all, it's only subjective ;) ). If you did not want your work criticized, then perhaps you should have labeled it thus. Again, as earlier, my intent is only to encourage you to push your character design further, and step past the ranks of the has-beens and undoubtedly-will-be-mores and make something original that you can really call your own.

Anchuvi

July 16th, 2003, 02:46 PM

In Grooveholmes defence, if he is following my tutorial then the design will be down to me. That said, I was reading the comics when I decided to write the tutorial so picked Sara as the main character.

I think this thread is getting a bit too serious...what did Grooveholmes want us to coment on, the design or his model?

Grooveholmes

July 16th, 2003, 02:46 PM

Sims=Lame, the Women i know don't spend thier time playing that game, they have thier own lives.

Candy coat it all your want, but I really don't care what you think adam; this is a personal project and isn't being sold to anybody. And when you call it a cop out and say its incapable of conveying emotion it shows to me that you don't know what youre talking about, a good artist and animater can make any character convey emotion. Also, when you are so high and mighty that you claim to be "Right" you just aren't. In fact youre wrong. Its only your opinion. nothing more.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: As i stated several times this is more of excercise and figure study to get myself acquainted with the workflow and tools. Count on the fact than in the future I will be undertaking more ambitious projects.

Grooveholmes

July 16th, 2003, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by Anchuvi
In Grooveholmes defence, if he is following my tutorial then the design will be down to me. That said, I was reading the comics when I decided to write the tutorial so picked Sara as the main character.

I think this thread is getting a bit too serious...what did Grooveholmes want us to coment on, the design or his model?

Yeah anchuvi, i said quite a few times that i was using the reference you made (except for the head, which is my own creation; because you didn't go into detail about how to create the head.), so its retarded for people to be so up in arms about it. I was just proud of the way it was turning out, that's why i posted it. Thanks for writing it Anchuvi:chug:

Adam

July 16th, 2003, 03:16 PM

as i said in my first post today, i realize that this is an animation/modeling experiment, and an interesting one at that. My initial post was in response to the positive comments regarding the design of the model itself, none of which seemed to be actively refuted; i offered my grain of salt about the design principles exhibited by your model mostly to balance out the high number of positive, design-related response you had thus far received, e.g. the following:

Women have large breats, I don't have problem that....
I was merely offering a different viewpoint. My second reply was just for sport, as I love a good argument, and game design (and game design/gender issues in particular) is something i've studied avidly for a few years now. As such, i enjoy arguing about gender issues in particular :) I only brought them up today, as I said before, to offer a different viewpoint (clearly an unpopular one). As Anchuvi said, this thread is getting a little too serious. Consider this an apology for whatever slight you feel you received, and I'm more than willing to let the issue rest. If you're up to arguing about design issues in the future (perhaps with fewer rolly-eye smilies?), please let me know - I think a lot can be learned in a good argument, by either side - be they high and mighty or angry and sarcastic. And I at least know that you won't back down ;) which makes a good argument better!

Grooveholmes

July 16th, 2003, 03:21 PM

:rolleyes:

:chug:

WerxOne

July 16th, 2003, 04:57 PM

adam your missing the point here, it doesnt matter what she looks like, hes not trying to impress us by showing that he can model boobs, he is trying to learn a new style of modelling, the the subject doesnt matter as much as how the tutorial helped bring new ideas of how to model. grooveholmes is an excellent artist, i dont know if youve checked out his homepage but hes got some nice work and its not all naked women with huge pointy thingies.