problum with clouds. help? (update: 28/01/07)

[affluxing heart]

i seem to be in a right cartuffle. i got this idea just this afternoon when i went for a walk, but i've already bumped into a problem with my background i want to have realistic clouds but i can't seem to hit the nail on the head so to speak please give some help.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e153/jimmytheweed/Untitled-1.jpg

[Jonah]

I have the problem sometimes as well, but the clouds would be more parallel to the horizon line and the light beams would radiate from the center of the sun, so those on the right are at the wrong angle.

http://www.androidblues.com/cloudtut.html <tut on cloud painting. I found it kinda useful.

[chaosrocks]

and remember that clouds have shape and form. so they will be in perspective. My best advice it look out the window. and paint what you see. everyday for a long time. and beware the hard colour change right at the horizon line it's usuall more subtle and diffuse as the atmosphere looks thicker and fades into your distance
chaos

[affluxing heart]

{{UPDATE}}
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e153/jimmytheweed/Untitled-2-1.jpg
any better?
thanks for the quick responses. :D

[nuki]

i think your clouds still look too solid. Remember that clouds consist of particles that are reflecting light - so, instead of painting an object try to paintreflected light. Make the borders smoother etc... I may link you to a genuine picture (http://conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49575&stc=1&d=1163558480) that really helped me a lot when learning to paint clouds..im not sure but i think its by Jason Chan!?!? Anyway, what you can see there is that you get a far more cloudy look if theres something partly covered , because its easier to guess the size then..like you
Or take a look at photoes if you wanna go for more solid cumulus clouds rather than smokey ones
Concerning the light situation you're definately on the right way, although I find the first one far more afternoon-ish :)

[Elwell]

Reference is your friend.
If you want to paint something so it looks like it's supposed too, you have to know how it's supposed to look.
Your new version looks like someone blew up the top of the mountain and sent pieces flying everywhere.

[affluxing heart]

ouch elwell that was harsh but i'll forgive since you since your so great and all :) go admins wooo!
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e153/jimmytheweed/Untitled-3-1.jpg
ok i've given it some thought and looked out my window several times and i think this is the closest i'm going to get on the resolution i've chosen. keep the crits coming though i love crit gimme gimme gimme. if this is it then i'll just post up a result when i'm done.

[affluxing heart]

-BUMP-

{{update edit}}

i realize this is a bit late to be asking but how do i make it so i have a thumb out side of the trend? just for future reference.

[affluxing heart]

final image. crit still would be greatly appreciated

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e153/jimmytheweed/Untitled-3-2.jpg

[nuki]

hm, pretty strong colours. A Depth of field effect would make it look tons better - its overdetailed at the moment.

[Okirun]

I just think it looks sort of messy. It's a gigantic pain to refine stuff in Photoshop, but it's totally worth it. First of all, I'd use a clean gradient for the sky. The sky has no texture except for clouds. Then you can layer up some soft whispy clouds and then finally the more defined clouds. Next, I think you're having some issues with where and when you use soft brushes as opposed to hard ones. You're going for the kind of clouds in that tutorial Jonah posted, right? Well, they're sort of hard around the edges, and then softly and smoothly blended in the middle, with a few more hard ripply edges where clouds overlap. Yours seem to be just sort of.. blurry and undefined, with a bunch of hard highlights. (By the way, are you using a tablet? Pressure sensitivity is awesome for clouds.)

Also, colors: your sky has a lot of gray in it, especially at the top. The sky should stay saturated. The bluest blue you can get. :D And your gass, it's awfully blue. It would probably be better to keep your range on the yellowey side of green for the foreground. Especially with a sunset and all, the colors would be warmer. http://www.manuelsweb.com/images/gabbys/grass_sunset.jpg (The colors of the actual sunset look pretty nice though.)

By the way, i really like how you did the dragon creature's body.

Oh, and the man sort of has no shadow.

[affluxing heart]

@nuki: good point i guess i should look go do some work on my 'dept of field' my perspective in general is pretty poor.

@okirun: thanks for the indept comment. some things i want to make clear i'm trying to develop my own method of cloud making so no i'm not going for the ones in the tut's posted by jonah (even though they helped alot i should add), i would b more inclined to use real life as reference.
i didn't use soft brushes once for the clouds. i only use the soft brush when erasing. i prefer using different flow %. i added lots of bluey grey for cool variation in the colour maybe it was wrong but it works for me i reckon.
what your saying from what i gather is to start again i'm not going to do the same image twice if you don't mind. also i guess i should point out that this is a very small image the actual size i'm working on is the same as the one i posted each time.
thanks for the pic-reff! :D except it is early morning not sunset. i've given the man a shadow although i miss placed my custom grass brush so it looks a bit too blurry :( btw its more of an ogre type creature than dragon.

-EDIT-
to help with size and scale etc. i've edited the height of a few of the character's and did my best to put more emphasis on the monster: http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e153/jimmytheweed/Untitled-4.jpg

[Jason Rainville]

The main problem is composition and the emphasis of certain elements. Right now there's so much that's really popping and vibrant that nothing seems more important than the other. The sun shining through the sky demands my attention and really leads me away from the interaction of the man and the beast, which is what I'm assuming is what the focal point is meant to be. I didn't even notice the sheep he was tossing until now.

Grayscale the entire thing, and try to see what really pops wqithout colour. You're going to have to rework this entire thing, from idea to composition to rendering to really ge the idea across. Have a low angle view with the monster taking up most of the background, tossing the sheep, with the an in the foreground.

[Cookiedough]

Check up on how real clouds build up. There are several sort of clouds and they're influenced by several factors. So, if you don't wanna look for tuts, you better get your background straight and use references.

The clouds atm still look like explosions. Monster seems onelegged and i have no clue what the guy is doing there. You composition has trouble, as Rhineville said. And yeah, spice this up, flying sheep sounds good!

[Slash]

think about your lightsources.. with the sun all way back over yonder, where is all the light illuminating all of the foreground (and our side of some clouds) coming from? the foreground is also very saturated, like on a bright sunny day.

[chaosrocks]

actually what I see it the main problem withthis is that grass is seldom GREEN, and the Sky is seldom BLUE. Shadows are not BLACK and Clouds are not WHITE... the use of cartoon colors gives a cartoon result. your colors are super saturated and not interacting in any way with each other. Also if you put this composition in Black and white (gray scale), the composition doesn't handg together or make sense. for a composition to work in color it should really work in Black and white. Your main eye grabber is the exploding horizon. Not, I would guess what you want the viewer tolook at first.

maybe if you are done withthis one, you might want to take these elements and size them..move them around .. make a more comprehesible composition based on the same ideas. then see what you can do to ingrate them.

just an idea
chaos

[affluxing heart]

wow i couldn't ask for any better help than you've guys have provided. really i got more than i deserve this time! however i'm not going to push this any further. i like the picture still just i'm tired of the concept and sick of looking at this image really its too small i know i have only myself to blame for this. i could bump it up to a higher resolution but what would the point of that really be when i have to edit everything. call me lazy but i have learnt alot and i've got the most of what i could possibly ever want to achieve with all the great comments people have left me. i'll carry my new knowledge onto something new and fresh. in short there is no need for me to beat a dead horse i should just move on.

@Rhineville i tried turning it to grey scale found alot of faults mainly in the way all the grassy hills in the foreground need to be in shadow. i never thought of that. thats clever :)
@Cookiedough yea still starring at the skies in and asking how to best translate that in photoshop maybe i'll download some custom brushes. just wanna say the man(farmer) is a very important element in the story of the image if he wasn't there it would just be a monster cruelly eating sheep i need him to add panic and more drama. make sense to you?
@slash yea rineville helped me see that the foreground is over saturated. thanks
@chaosrocksyour right i kinda was going for cartoony though. thanks for sharing your idea. but i rather move on tbh