The PaintOver Thread!

[Justin.]

WELCOME TO THE TPOT!


Yes, a TPOT! A brilliant idea from CGTalk. The point of this thread is not to just post any image you would post in a thread; Post a thread, and if you get to a point where you don't understand the flaws people describe to you, bring it here! I love doing paintovers, they are an educational experience for both ends. I learn so much with every one I do.
Other users can feel free to give paintovers as well, but I would like to say, if you are painting over with things you think are just "maybe correct", It is better to suggest it in words. I have seen some people in the CC recently saying "The _____ looks fine to me." When the ____ is actually totally wrong. This is BAD if nobody comes by to correct it, and I don't want that behavior to carry over into paintovers.

Another reason for me starting this thread, is that a number of times I will spend 20-30 minutes on a paintover for someone who A) Doesn't listen or B) Never checks the thread again. It pisses me off to no end, so I hope this will rectify the situation. Also, it's easier for people to come to this thread than for me to fish through all the CC threads.

All levels of completed work (except for extremley initial sketches) are encouraged for critique; Personally I run through the CC looking for prime candidates that I can do fast and effectivley; Those things are-
Black and white lines, or flat colors with slight rendering. Generally if a picture is readable it is easy to do a paintover.

Composition is an IMPORTANT aspect of illustration. If you just can't seem to paint-over a piece correctly because of it's setup, I highly encourage a quick thumbnail of a better composition.

Let's have someone start us off then, and let the learning begin! =)
(Admins, I hope this is a reasonable thread. :cheerleader: :yayca:)

[look]

Kudos to you for starting this!

[Lotet]

yeah, lovely idea^^

[Anid Maro]

Brilliant idea! I'll be bookmarking this for sure.

[Sierra T. Rush]

Awsome!!

Already bookmarked Justin.

[scumworks]

:cheerleader: Great idear.

[NathanLong]

TPOT?

Tea pot?

[dogfood]

You know, sometimes I'm a little tea pot.

(man, someone needs to toss up a test subject.)

[dogfood]

I was really hoping this would take off.

I am, in fact, still hoping.

[Justin.]

So was I... So much school work I have nothing to contribute art wise right now, so I check in here alot to see if anyone has posted..

[Dile_]

Bookmarked, and hopefully sticky soon :) Hope somone post something.

[nuki]

wow, great idea. I love doin paintovers cus I can leave out the part where you gotta think...just go and change what you feel. Got this one Bookmarked and lookin on my harddrive for things for ya, lets all exchange our never finished pieces >:D

€it2: ya, the topic was tripod. Well, okya then, i change the pic...if you dont feel its fitting there. Plane crash in an ice cave. Prob is that the cave doesnt look like ice...

[Justin.]

I don't see a trident... are you sure the topic wasn't Tripod?

[seth1]

trident

noun
a spear with three prongs

(tri) meaning 3

[Idiot Apathy]

Hmm, I thought I remembered you starting this up once already Justin?

Edit: nuki, I have no clue what to do with that @_@. You haven't started on 3/4ths of it. And Thinking isn't a bad thing you know.

[seth1]

Hmm, I thought I remembered you starting this up once already Justin?

Edit: nuki, I have no clue what to do with that @_@. You haven't started on 3/4ths of it. And Thinking isn't a bad thing you know.

I thought I was having deja vu at first haha... I think he started this thread up along time ago to with his other account..... Hopefully this one will stay for quite some time.. Now justin has more knowledge and alot of other people will be able to help.

Seth

[nuki]

You haven't started on 3/4ths of it. And Thinking isn't a bad thing you know.

Me was referring to the part where you gotta think about the Topic and content of the picture - I now see that my formulation was just waiting for being used against me :P
So you would prefer something more tight with less freedom, Ok. I'll give it one last try. This time something I really need crits on because it will be worked out to something finished. Please scroll up for the pic - I edited my last post.

[seth1]

Hope this helps

[nuki]

mh, it definately opened my eyes for the problem...theres too few ambient light and the blue needs to be more cold + the light be smaller. Great overpaint, dunno if i will go for such a high saturation though (might be my screen boosting the sat. as well)
thanks a lot :)

[Anid Maro]

I may have one for you guys here. I'm not sure if it's beyond the scope of this thread, but I figured I'd give it a try.

So I've been trying to figure out a good way to color greyscale images in Photoshop. You see, I paint with a mouse, which is really hard to work with for anything detailed or complex. So instead I want to make a detailed inking by hand, scan it in, and then apply color in Photoshop.

I've got three images here: the greyscale, my first attempt to color it a month ago (colors on overlay layers on top of the greyscale), and a recent attempt (greyscale on two layers, top is 50% opacity multiply and then a overlay layer).

My main problem is either loss of saturation or the colors come out screwy (e.g., with the multiply+overlay, if I put a brown down in any white area, it becomes yellow).

Specifically, this is an issue when I want to make the shaded area some sort of blue instead of black, or maybe make the light areas slightly orange to reflect sundown. Either I loose too much saturation to do this, or the colors come out so wonky that when I click to paint I really don't know what's going to come out.

So, I was wondering how you guys might do it. I know it's possible (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=88056) to color a greyscale image real nicely, but I'm currently at a complete loss as to how.

Oh, and yes, I know in the third image he looks like a clown. Because the colors were coming out strange, I figured I'd have some fun with it. :)

[Anid Maro]

Just to make it more clear what I'm trying to do, I uploaded an image of the color scheme that I want (first attachment). Now, how can I get all the texture and detail of the inked piece into this without losing saturation or the colors coming out screwy?

Best results I'm getting are with the greyscale image on top as "Luminosity" (second attachment). But even then it still looks a bit washed out.

Hmm... maybe this is more appropriate for the Photoshop forum... if it isn't at all appropriate for here, let me know so I can delete my posts and ask over there. I just really want this thread to take off, so I'm scraping the barrel for material. :)

[Justin.]

You set the black and white layer to "Multiply", and then make a layer below it. That is where you put your colors. (The bottom layer, "Layer 1", should be Normal. This is your "Color layer". The top layer should be the inks (no magic wanding necessary, just the black and white stuff all there) set to "Multiply")

If you post the original ink/wash stuff then I can more properly demonstrate for you!

[Anid Maro]

Justin Oaksford - I've tried out the Multiply setting. Works great for lineart, but when working with a wash like this it gets really dark.

The original was the greyscale I posted, maybe you wanted a larger version? If so, here you go.

[Justin.]

OH! I somehow missed number 20.


The reason you are having problems is because the way that works is through values.

You put a new layer over the black and white, set to "Color".

But look at this (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=81875&stc=1&d=1169552435) pic. Do you see any pure white? Nope.. Do you see any pure black on the face? generally no. You need to have very even values for the "Color" mode to work effectivley. So using this pic, you cannot, and even after my change you still won't be able to use it effectivley, just because of this type of picture.

[Anid Maro]

Justin Oaksford - Hmm... turns out exactly the same as when I put the greyscale at "Luminosity".

I see what you mean about pure whites and blacks though. I loaded up IronBrush's image into photoshop and messed around. No matter what kind of wierd ass color I tried to come up with, it blended perfectly when I applied it.

My image, on the other hand, doesn't work quite as well. I'll keep this in mind next time.

Maybe instead of starting with black and then adding a value of grey, I'll start with light grey and build up on it over time. That may work better.

Thanks a lot! Now that I have an idea about what I'm doing, maybe I can make something come of it. :)

[in4mor4to]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/softlyspokenloudlyunderstood/Duncan.jpg

second post here ever!

[NathanLong]

Anid, I would try doing a drawing that is only black and white and scanning that in, then adding colors and shading under the multipy layer. Looking at the gray washes you did on your original, I don't see any strokes so detailed that they would be difficult to duplicate with the mouse. Only the black line work is detailed.

Or is that what you just said....?

[Anid Maro]

NathanLong - Nope, I did the greys in ink as well. I was asking not because I'm particularly concerned about this image, but because I want to figure out the best way about doing my ThunderDome submission. :)

I adjusted the levels until it was just black and white and messed around a bit. Found I can work on the blacks by putting it on screen and then whites on multiply. Using that combination isn't working out too badly, and I can get texture through the brushes in Photoshop. So that may be the route I go. Thanks for the idea!

[JL.Alfaro]

Anid Maro- I don't know what you are trying to do with this pic, but if you want to have complete control over the image you have to do it via channels.

In case you dont know the procedure, its as follows:
once you have the image open in PS, make sure its in its own layer. On the layers window click the channels tab. You will see that there are four layers labeled; RGB, Red, Green, Blue. Duplicate the blue layer, and then inverse it (control+ i) Click the layers tab again. Delete the image layer you have and create a new blank layer. Having the new layer selected, go to the menu- Select/load selection-. On the channels drop down menu, choose "Blue copy" and hit ok. Your layer is now filled with marching ants, you can then fill it with the paint bucket. OR you can play around with the brush colorizing it as you wish. Deselect the image, now you see the results, if you are not happy with the results you can always go back and load the selection again, and voila! you can change the colors via pixels as you wish.

This is done via channels, just to show the difference from the above.

[Carnifex]

hoookay,i think i'm kinda stuck with this one (good idea fora thread justin btw).
first image is how i started out,and how i want the lighting to be (sunset approx.),second is where i'm right now. now i want to get that sunset feeling back,and people are telling me there's some probs here and there in the lower area (legs,tummy,back). now,she's preggers,and i want that leg rather at this angle,but I'm not sure about it.
so,feel free to add your thoughts. and thanks alot in advance.:) i'll jump onto other's stuff as soon as i can. (and as soon there is something that hasn't been said before).

82676 82677

p.s.: andi maro,i actually think the "clown" version works best. it's a good start.

[Anid Maro]

Anid Maro- I don't know what you are trying to do with this pic, but if you want to have complete control over the image you have to do it via channels.

In case you dont know the procedure, its as follows:
once you have the image open in PS, make sure its in its own layer. On the layers window click the channels tab. You will see that there are four layers labeled; RGB, Red, Green, Blue. Duplicate the blue layer, and then inverse it (control+ i) Click the layers tab again. Delete the image layer you have and create a new blank layer. Having the new layer selected, go to the menu- Select/load selection-. On the channels drop down menu, choose "Blue copy" and hit ok. Your layer is now filled with marching ants, you can then fill it with the paint bucket. OR you can play around with the brush colorizing it as you wish. Deselect the image, now you see the results, if you are not happy with the results you can always go back and load the selection again, and voila! you can change the colors via pixels as you wish.

This is done via channels, just to show the difference from the above.

:jawdrop: !!!

I've never understood channels before. I knew that there were four, Red, Green, Blue, and RGB, but I never knew how to manipulate them, so I've always just ignored that tab.

I tried out what you explained, and it allowed me to freely color my image without any layer mode shenanigans but still retain the texture and different values of the original image.

Many thanks for explaining how to do something with that channels tab!

:bow:

[Anid Maro]

Carnifex - Sorry if my paintover is kinda crude, working with a mouse and I didn't blend... so yeah...

Anyhow, if you're trying to get a sunset/sunny feeling, I'd say throw in some yellow/orange into the highlights. I only worked on the body, but the hair could use some too.

Also, the addition of a less purpleish/pinkish hue to her highlights seems to make her skin look a little less "alien" to me. Although maybe it's the lack of pupils in her eyes that makes me think that. :)

[BlackGuy]

great idea. I hope this goes well.

[Idiot Apathy]

Hey Carni, missed this from earlier.



Not sure if you meant her to be "preggers" or not, but didn't seem like it from your text. So that was the first to go. The defining the difference between full light and shadow, color edits and tweaks. Painting of more form and highlights. Simplified the hair as I think, if you are going to draw each strand of hair then it will look odd unless you draw an equal amount of detail throughout the figure - and I don't think you want to draw each freckle. trimmed the back and butt a bit inwards trying to achieve the proper twist. Extended the arm and changed it's position a bit. (Might need someone to PO my PO :( ) Calmed the background down quite a bit, I think it's good at times to have a chaotic background, here however I thought that it was really hurting your value range - plus it was simpler for me to just smooth it over haha. I dunno what else.

Hope this helps a little :)

8423484235

[Carnifex]

waaagh? how do you get that smooth look,if i may ask? looks so much better than mine. (i'm guessing brush settings)
though,actually i wanted her to be preggers,sorry for the confusion. background was meant as some sort of swirling clouds.
thanks alot for this paintover though (anid maro aswell),i see some huge faults on mine that need correcting now. :)

[Idiot Apathy]

Try using your normal round brush, keep opacity at 100%. Pressure to size (whatever minimum size you prefer) pressure to opacity and flow as well (in other settings). Use a lower flow if you are blending or want a slower and smoother application of paint.

I really don't like opacity 99.9% of the time. It's ugly and leaves too much digital aftertaste.

Man I must have been tired last night, her hips and ribs are so messed up :\ So's the rear arm :(

[pixmaker]

someone please help me with this. I am having difficulty with the brush. its a pain in the ass. I am using a round hard brush set to pen pressure in other dynamics. However it doesnt seem to give me the look im going for. i want it to look more painterly. right now it looks retarded. im also using a grpahire 3, i'm still saving up for an intuos. .?? thanks in advance

sam

[FallenLondon]

So is this only for ppl who use a painting program...

I was wondering if you can do a redline on a prelim....not sure if this is what this thread is for...

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/1051/rileytweakmy3.jpg
thx in advance

[zao75231]

Hey FallenLondon, here is something that helped me with character poses. I would draw grids and to help the characters look more balanced. I personally don't give the women that much tone, only when I'm painting I think, but that's just me. Also draw those perspective lines and wrap the clothes, boots and braclets in the direction the body is going, wrap them around really good, exaggerate! Show some attitude through the pose as well, is the character cocky? is she shy? manifest the characters emotion.
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2849/rileytweakmy3drawoveruz4.jpg
Cheers!

[Zoroko]

fantastic thread~! :D:D:D

[Katfayheirti]

I really appreciate what you guys are doing here!

I just started blocking in this picture and I was wondering if anyone could help me out.

I know there's something off with the pespective, but I just have no idea how to fix it. Maybe you guys could spot what's wrong with your fresh eyes? Any help would be much appreciated.

[deomonte21]

Hey,
A few things need to be fixed

In exapple 1 you can see that your lines arent coming off 1 clear vanishing point. ( start with a point way off in the distance depending on the angle you want the objebts to be scewed at. and draw all lines heading that direction off that one point. See note on drawing for other details.

In exaple 2 you can see if the lines continue off they dont meet up.

What I do and I dont know if theres an easier way. I'm sure if you want to do the math you could..but love art hate math..so I do it this way...Seems like a lot but goes really fast once youve done it a couple times.
---- Follow these steps
1.create a canvas much much bigger than what you want your final work to be
2.select rectangle marque
3.on the tool bar accross where is says Style...swith it from normal to fixed aspect ratio
4.enter the width and height you want your final piece to be
5.Now make a box using rectangle marque too in middle of page
6.Now select rectangle tool and draw a box over the marching ants you just made.
7.You now have your final page size on a canvas large enough to extend vanishing points out to.
8.Once you have the basic layout and you know everything lines up. Just select the area where we determined final picture size earlier. Cmd+X (cuts image) Cmd+N (opens create new image box, which will automatically be set at the size you just cut so hit enter) Cmd+V paste image.
9.You now have a perspectivly correct image the size you want your final product to be.

Hope it helped a bit..Im hungry gonna go eat!

[pixmaker]

i dont see anything wrong with the perspective. in real life tables and rugs dont sit perfectly lined up.

[Justin.]

THis should show you where you were going a little wrong. =) G'luck Kat!

[Katfayheirti]

Thanks so much guys! Maybe tables and rugs don't line up perfectly in real life, but I wanted the picture to have a harmony to it. Does that make sense?

Anyway, I took all of the suggestions to heart and put the picture on a very large canvas so I could make all of the lines go to the same two points. It was worth it! The first image illustrates what I discovered from that exercize (cropped of course). The second image shows the quick corrections I made. I'm still a little worried now because I think the girl is at a different angle from the environment.

I am definately on the learning curve with this piece! Well, thanks again :D I'mma go paint now!

[masque]

i hope this isn't too late, Kat! it took a while to put together.

your perspective issues extend beyond simply establishing vanishing points. as these diagrams show, you also have to establish a proper Eye Level (sometimes also called the horizon line), because your VPs have to share this level for the persp. layout to work properly. also, from this high a viewpoint, you need to use three-point perspective for the verticals to be properly drawn.

102377
in Diag A i extended your picture lines out to help find possible new VPs -- they're really badly scattered, and have no Eye Level at all. in Diag B i chose an Eye Level and VPs 1 & 2 on the E.L., and VP3 for the verticals, by roughly averaging your original line intersections to single points. these new persp. lines are shown in the DiagB closeup. you could conform your pic to these lines if you want all the elements to be "lined up" square to one another.
102378

however, you can also establish new VPs along the Eye Level for objects in the pic that aren't aligned -- the paper is a very good example of this. in DiagC i set up VPs 5A&B for the paper, and also VPs 4A&B for the rug, which seemed to be a bit misaligned from the table.

102379
The DiagC closeup shows the revised persp lines on your pic, and the Diag C P.O. show your pic modified to match the new persp layout, including the verticals to VP3. note that though the rug & table look misaligned, their perspective doesn't look off.
102380

also remember that your figures need to follow the perspective layout as well. in this case, it already does to a large degree. same is true for objects with cylindrical form, such as the cup i roughed onto the table. persp. mismatches in even such small things can hurt the overall effect of the image.

one note: i did not do a formal perspective layout for the scene, which really should be done. i basically used what was already in the pic and eyeballed it. for the most convincing use of perspective, and especially when 3-point persp. is needed, it would be a good idea to study the formal methods and lay out an accurate grid before starting.

also note that you can use Paths to lay out perspective grids in Photoshop, with guides to snap to -- use the F key to change the application view to "Full Screen with Menu Bar," create a new Path, and use the Pen tool (P) to lay out your perspective lines. this is how the layouts in the first diagram in this post was done. it's very versatile and doesn't require creating an over-sized picture to do the persp. layout (some layouts have VPs way the heck out there!) the F key will cycle through the three available views.

[Justin.]

<3 Masque

[Katfayheirti]

OMG, thanks so much, Masque! Like Justin said, " <3 "
Good thing I went shopping today instead of painting like I said I was going to do.

I haven't had time to really figure out what you mean with all of the diagrams yet, but I guess a big problem I was having was that I throught it was only 2-point perspective I was dealing with when it was actually 3-point perspective. (that and I'm really sloppy with making all of the lines line up)

I'm going to sleep on this and tomorrow morning I'll get cracking on it first thing. I know it's a poor excuse, but right now I'm just having a hard time wrapping my mind around this whole geometrically-precise perspective thing. (and I don't think watching C.O.P.S for the past hour helped in that department. I swear that show just sucks the intelligence right out of people)

Also, thanks so much guys! I'm seriously surprised at how many people helped out and how much effort was put into it! (Even though this is CA. I shouldn't be surprised, but I am)

[masque]

no prob, Kat. actually, the basics of perspective have only a few easily-learned rules, and for most subjects, that's all you need. here's a link i found to what looks like a pretty good tutorial, very much for artists rather than technicians:
http://www.scottmcdaniel.net/drawing/perspective/perspective.html

there are ways to make extremely accurate perspective drawings, which are often used by illustrators dealing with architectural and technical subjects where such accuracy is necessary. but for the most part, the procedures in that link will take care of the general situations. the most important aspect of using perspective is to learn to do it from the get-go, when sketching (when knowing the rules can help you get the "freehand" perspective more accurate), and later when laying out your work for finishing, when a grid laid down early can save a lot of reworking later on.

[Katfayheirti]

Thanks for the link! I've got it in my favourites now and I'm sure it will make a great ref in the years to come.

This morning I tried out your rough method of getting the pespective lines down in PS and here's what I came up with. It makes a lot more sense to me after a good night's rest and a fresh cup of tea.
102827

I tried to establish an eye level and I've got some separate VPts set for things that aren't aligned.

Here's a close-up:
102828

Right now I'm doodling in the adjustments based on the perspective lines so hopefully I can better see all of the mistakes I made this time around. >_>

Previously I've always been terrified of working with things in perspective, but this method of using paths in PS is much less painful than drawing it out with a pencil and ruler. (omg Paolo Ucello was INSANE) I know I really should be using a grid, but... for this picture I'm happy to stick with the 'lazy' way.

[masque]

what you have there is what i term a "perspective grid," and if it's the "lazy" way, i vote for laziness :D for many subjects, this kind of layout is all that's needed; relative sizes & other aspects of the picture elements can be intelligently eyeballed. the paths approach lets you use only as many perspective lines as you need or want at a time (as opposed to working around an entire grid), and to grab the anchor points and drag them out of the picture area when not needed.

occasionally i do set up a metrically accurate grid as a guide for drawing in parts of a pic; then it's often useful to create a layer and use Stroke Paths to put the grid down as pixels.

[Noë]

Hello lovely CA people :)

I did a "speed"paint of approximatel 2,5 - 3 hours today. I've always had problems with skintones, and faces in general.. I'm looking for a way to get a nice intensity to the skintones without spending ages on it. Though I really watched out for not making the skintones dull, I think that on this latest speedie eventually they became dull again :P

I have three different versions of this, I uploaded the three PSD versions of it to my webspace in case someone would like to paint it over.
Also, for the reference click here (http://www.marleenrenders.com/sketchbook/01.jpg).. I think I should've also payed more attention to the basic structure.. Is it really off?
Well whatever :) here they are:
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#01 PSD version here (http://www.marleenrenders.com/sketchbook/520-1.psd)

136043
#02 PSD version here (http://www.marleenrenders.com/sketchbook/520-1.psd)

136044
#03 PSD version here (http://www.marleenrenders.com/sketchbook/520-1.psd)

thanks in advance for the help!

Love,
Marleen

[Idiot Apathy]

Hi Marleen! Great start on this one :) Great ref too, has amazing lighting.

Few things to keep in mind, for your colors to look real I think you might follow the old adage; warm light, cool shadow; cool light warm shadow. What this is talking about in my opinion is temperature shifts in relation mainly to saturation. So at some point in your shading scale the color will go as far as it can in saturation and then, while still increasing in value - lose saturation.

I think your choice in background color was also hurting your color perception as well as overwhelming the colors themselves. Same with the intense magenta hair.

I also played with some shapes etc, but that was mainly just for fun hehe :) I just woke up, and now I need to hop in the shower.

http://athena.divshare.com/s03/files/2007/05/09/602852/520-1.jpg

[Manly Man]

Put a touch more violet into the hair, and she should still fit in there right, the hair being the median between the background and her skin, sort of like how red can go with violet or orange, and any color in between; it would fit better, and not be such a sharp change from her to the bluer background.

[Noë]

@ Idiot Apathy; wow thanks! I really like what you did with it. Thanks for the colour theory help.. I think that's where my problem is with painting colours: lack of understanding the colour theory, or just not remembering it at the time I need to :P
You're absolutely right about the background colour.. I think from now on I'll start with a grey colour on the background so I can see the colours better.
Again thanks lots :) I think I learned a lot from your post :)
@ Manly Man; thanks ! I did the violet thing :) It works much better yes.. But I think that if I work on this more I'll turn the hair more or less black like Idiot Apathy did.
---
I chose for warm light in this one so I tried to make the shadows cooler.
Here is the result of another hour on it:
136685
I'm going to try the cool lighting and warm shadows as well, just to see how it affects the mood. Oh and I added a little creepy tough to it (I hope :P) just because I like creepy.

EDIT; here's the result with the cool lights.. I learned a lot from doing this stuff. Thanks people :)
137931

I'm not asking for paintovers on this one (although ofcourse a paintover is álways appreciated, on anything :) ), just posted it to show how I applied the crits you gave me :)

love!
Marleen

[rabeat]

hey, i didnt know how to link the single image, but the one ive bein stuck with is the black bear on a tree with clouds and all, hope to get ur overpainting and see what would u do.
thanx a lot.
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=84485

[Justin.]

No offense Rabeat, but that is extremely old... maybe you could try again with your current abilities and then hand it over to us? One of the rules of the Critique center is to not post old work, and unless you truly plan on finishing that bear piece, there really isn't much of a point to it. The goal isn't to "See what other people would do", but to "see what I did wrong". It doesn't matter who does the paintover- the issues are usually always solved, just in different ways. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

[rabeat]

ok, non taken, ill try and finished as i can, i just got stck in there sinsce then, and saw this treat, and as u said, i whanted to see what i did wrong, seing ur paintovers felt like the right path, thanx 4 the help, 2 me and others.
cheers!

[irina]

Hi!

I was looking for feedback on this drawing, needing help to see the anatomy issues. A kind person suggested I post it here -- thanks to everyone in advance!

http://www.eastendseventeen.net/img/valkyrie4f2.jpg

[Sepulverture]

This is turning out to be such a wonderful thread. I have something I can toss in here, although I'm not what you would call lost in terms of not understanding the crits I'm getting on it. I understand the crits pretty well, what I'm not understanding is how to go about improving on what I've already done. I fail at doing better than this right now, but It's my hope that I can succeed on future pieces. Please, feel free to paint over it to your little hearts content! (pretty please

[Noë]

Hi there..

I hope not everybody lost interest in this great thread? :)
I won't do paintovers because I simply don't think I know enough to do that. But I'll try to give some crits!

@ Irina; to me it looks like you're not using enough shading in this. I think the snow could have much more grey darker tones in it, and the skin of the girl needs some warm shadows. The boots too. Currently the background is turning out quite flat because of the little differences in colour and value I think. Try making the front a bit darker, and leave the stuff that's far away light, and make it a bit more blue ish. I think that should help with the depth.
Oh and about anatomy issues, one I could find was that the left lower leg seems too long, just look at the angle of the line though the two knees, and the angle of the line through the two feet, her left foot should me moved upwards a bit, making the lower left leg less long.
@ sepulverture; ah I see you have enough crits but don't know how to apply them.. Sorry can't help with that I guess, since I'm really just not confident and skilled enough to do paintovers just yet.

---

I have a thing to paint over as well!
I need help with two, maybe three things:
The "wings" (how to make them look wingy? :P), the colours of the face (how to make the face more interesting maybe, more contrast? Or is it allright the way it is?), and the background (which colour would bring this out best, and why?)

Oh, and here are the image, and the reference:

148505 148504

Love
Marleen

[Mindflaw]

I won't do paintovers because I simply don't think I know enough to do that.

Looking at your sb I know I'm worse than you but I'll try anyway a very quick one though, checking out the correct construction and shape of the feathers etc would take me hours so I just scribbled down my initial thoughts about construction and direction of the feathers in five minutes plus a fifteen minutes search for wings and such :bashful:

About your wings - you forgot to think about structure and direction of the feathers.

Just as you look at human anatomy and construction you have at look at the anatomy of wings.... look at feathers then at birds wings do a search for eagles on google there's usually good pics on eagles that spread their wings, do a search on angels too so you see how people attach them on the back. When you got some good refs so you know how feathers are built and how they are attach to the wings...

start out by attaching the "base" of the wing on the back and draw the "base" of the wing then attach the feathers as they should be placed on the wing.

I only painted the "base" and painted the direction of the feathers using a brush with a nice texture, when you draw them as feathers with the correct shape, placement and overlapping the wings will look like real wings.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/Mindflaw/mind/592-2paintover.jpg

hoped it helped

[Cookiedough]

Noë: you made the eye too small and too close to the eyebrow. Also, needs more mass to the back of the head.

Maybe overlap the pic and the ref, to see where you're off, or jus flip it.

[Justin.]

Also, as another quick crit... lower the corner of the mouth a bit and add a small 'pocket' to it.

[irina]

Noe -- Thanks for your crit! I see what you're saying about depth and adding more tones; will try it for exercise...

On your piece, I won't try to do a paintover -- I'll have to build a little more confidence before I attempt something like it. However, what really gets me in your piece is her neck; if you notice on the photograph, the lady's neck is tense, tight -- it's not curved out, and the bulge over her "adam's apple" is barely noticeable and much lower on her neck, enforcing that suggestion of elongation and tension in the neck... And as Cookiedough mentioned, she needs more volume on the back of her head... Hope this makes any sense and helps?

[Noë]

Thanks all for the great grits + paintover.. But please don't forget about Irina's and Sepulverture's stuff on the other page. No-one critted those yet. :)

I'll work on this more this evening, but I also have a lot of homework, and a huge test tomorrow, so I'll have to leave the drawing behind a little :(
Well, here are my reactions!

@ Mindflaw; thanks a lot! I definately forgot about structure and direction of feathers.. I think I just scribbled a bit and wondered why they didn't look right.. Hmm that's not the right way to go huh :P
Your paintover did give me some insight on this. I'll look up some examples on wings and bone structure, thanks!
@ Cookie; Thanks too :) I'll fix the eye this evening. I don't want to overlap the reference over the 'painting' because I need to train my eye to spot those things, I think that works better when I just resemble the two, or am I wrong with that?
Some people told be about the back of the head needing more mass as well, and I see it now, it's a regular mistake of mine to make the head too "slim" :P Thanks!
@ Justin; Hey thats a good one :P didn't see that ^^ Thanks! I'll do it this evening. *writes a list of to-do things*
@ Irina; thanks a lot too! Didn't see that as well, her neck is way more hollow than the one I drew. Will fix that too this evening, along with the rest :P

So yeah, thanks a lot! The only thing that wasn't critted are the colours.. I'm just wondering about them (mainly because I've been having LOTS of trouble with colour in the past, and still). Are they okay? What could I change and how would that change the feeling of the image? And what about background colours?

thanks a lot!
Marleen

[Noë]

hmm okay ^^
I think I'll just keep using this thread :S and hope I'm not the only one because that feels so attention seeking :S

first: I did some more work on that thing I posted a while ago, I'm having troubles with finding the right background colour.. Can anyone give me some advice about that?
Here is it:

153292

And now why I really wanted to make this post:
I'm working on a new image/sketch, don't know how far I'll take it.. And I feel that the composition is a bit weird because my eyes keep going to the left of the image and almost never to the right, and also I felt like it needed some background elements instead of only sea and sky, so I did some scribbling of a city, but I don't think it's working :P
Any advices will be greatly appreciated!:

153293

Thanks in advance :)
love
Marleen

[Justin.]

here ya go... quick fixup, I hope my changes are apparent :D

Her anatomy was fairly off, but the arms were hiding it. While I didn't look up jackets, I crossed my arms and tried to figure it out.
Now I'll do that top one!

The lips are uuuuuuuuuuugly =(

Remember Noë, sometimes you need to go beyond the reference to make it work for you- because pictures are liars. Granted I screwed up the lips and made it look like a man, but I made some shadows and fixed the skull size.

It's very Jon Foster! :D

[DIMAGYAN]

i recently see this thread, great idea.if you let me i would like to post something im workimg on...(if the size of the images are too big tell me then i correct them)

ok a friend ask me to do a sort of spider woman pin up version with a red hair ponny tail and stomach expose outfit like only requirements. i come up with the draw and he liked then i did the colour and...well it not end up very well. after a twick in her vest(white eyes and blue pants) i start doing a new colour version, but im very bad for colouring and painting so any advice or crit would more than welcome.

154093

and here a large version

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa89/DIMAGYAN/SPIDERGIRLCOLOR1CPANTALON2.jpg

[Noë]

Hey Justin! Thanks a lot man!
I'm sorry I didn't reply earlier, but as I said in my PM, I was visiting a festival :)

about the first one (face with purple'ish colours):
I understand what you mean with pictures are liars, but I was kindof looking for some resemblance with the original image because I realy liked how the face was looking. I do actually like the lips you made :P they're fluffy ^^
I guess one of the things that really need fixing a lot is that skull size. Björk just has a weird skull :P but I guess that's not the only weird thing about her :P
I really like what you did to the shadows of the neck, it has much more form now.
Thanks a lot for what you did. Really gave me some insight ^^

On the second one, the weirdo girl with straitjacket:
thanks a lót on pointing out that issue with the upper body. I really didn't notice :P I'm glad I know this before adding loads of details and stuff. I have some questions about the colours though:
- Why did you make warm reflection lights on the legs?
- why are the shadows on the legs so brown?
- why did you make the sky so blue?
these are simply questions because I don't understand why you made these choices. Not to criticize or anything, just curiosity :)

@ Dimagyan; hmm I'm definately not the right person to paint this over, so I'll just say something about what I think works: I like the plastic effects on the clothing, but they could be a little less. Watch out that you don't make the same effects on the skin, that makes the skin look like plastic too, and you probably don't want that. Check this tutorial (http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm) for some interesting ideas on colour stuffs.

love
Marleen

[Justin.]

To answer your questions;

The warm reflection comes from her ankle, which has sunlight on it. Maybe it's a bit too strong, but it's only a paintover.

The sky is so blue because when I look at the sky, that's what I see. I used to make the sky desaturated a bit also, but after staring only at the sky, (not the horizon with the sky), I realized that it's actually very saturated, just as it approaches the horizon it gets a TAD amount more teal or mint-greenish color, and then whitish. So when it's close to the horizon it's white-blueish, but when it's further up it's a nice pretty blue. I just wanted to sky to look "pure"

The brown on the legs is actually blue-ish, reflecting the sky. If you compare it with ultimate black, you will see it really isn't that dark,



other crits; if she is on water, imo you need to use more flow and less dotty strokes,

if she is on clouds, I think you need to use broader, bigger brushstrokes, not so many tiny ones. Remember clouds are a large fluffy mass, and only the big ones get really complex. If you were standing on a cloud you wouldn't see all those little bulbs,

[Noë]

Hey man :) thanks a lot. I understand now.
I'm going to work on this tomorrow because then I'll have all my schoolexams thingies finished and I won't have to do anything about school for like the next 8 weeks!! :teeth:
She's supposed to be on water by the way :) I'll try to be more flowy.

So well yeah, that's it. Just wanted to reply :)
When I worked on this more and I can't find out what doesn't work I might post it again, if that's allright :) But I'm kinda starting to dominate this thread so maybe I should just post it in my WIP thread :P

Love
Marleen

[Justin.]

It isn't your fault you are dominating, you are just using this thread like you are supposed to!

If anything you are keeping it alive =P

[DIMAGYAN]

Nöe: thanks for the advice and the tutorial link, very good info indeed i have now asimilate the information and when i have somenthing new i bring back to here.about your first painting i like the colours, but i think the background could be less gray and maybe find a color that oposse to the blue/red dominated tone of the image or a colour that compliment that combination.for the lips i suggest watch close the angle and the size because to me in the picture it seem more thin than in your painting and in the paintover(maybe is just me.all depends how similar the painting you like to be)i like the feel of the second painting.well thanks again for the help.