Prepping for college, issues with Parents

[Marsh]

Hi. I'm 17 and a Junior in high school. I am preparing to attend art school for a major in Sequential Art and a Minor in Freelance Illustration. At the moment my art studies are far more appealing than my academic studies, as they have always been. My grades are falling and I ended up in the C-C+ range for my past report card. This worries my parents but not so much me.

I guess the point I am trying to get at is should I need to keep a 3.2+ GPA to get where I want to go and let my art time go a little or should I focus a little more on the art side of things, which I think I should be doing.

I know there are alot of people that have graduated/ are in art schools right now and I would like some advice.

For the record I want to get in to SCAD but I would like to look around at other places that offer sequential art for a degree.

Thanks for all the forthcoming advice!

[Elwell]

Two points to consider:
1. Art school is expensive
2. Many scholarships are grade-based

[Marsh]

Yeah SCAD does offer $15,000 scholarships for porfolios and some for academic excellence. I also have been looking for some more inexpensive places to go.

[rblitz7]

If you have a pretty good portfolio, you can get into SCAD with not so great grades. But still always try to get good grades, it never hurts.

[Maxine Schacker]

First of all, education IS imporrtant. Storytelling and writing skills will be of use to you. General information - a knowledge of history( both art and world history) and your overall intellectual development should not be underrated. However, in terms of being accepted into different schools, the best thing to do is look at their web sites, and if the info isn't there, call or email and ASK what the academic requirements are.

For a school like Max the Mutt (www.maxthemutt.com) , in addition to portfolio,we ask for an essay, we interview every applicant either in person or by telephone, and we check character references. We need curious students who can express themselves and are interested in more than drawing. To be an animator, or concept artist, or comic book artist, you have to understand the story, the characters etc. and be able to find the right visual expression for the piece of work. You also have to be able to communicate with your collaborators. You need to be a good team player.

I hope this is of some help to you.

[supermark]

I remeber back in my senior year near the end of it I became very lazy and procastinated so much that it hurt me and my chances to get scholarships. Luckily I was able to pull myself out and came out of hs pretty good and got a couple scholarships. My problem was I had the end in mind so i neglected everything else. So i encourage you to do well it your all in all of your academics. I know art is important but dont hurt yourself but accepting less from yourself. You'll regret it later if you dont give it your all. Apply like mad to scholarships even to a secondary choice backup school. Because i ended up going to my secondary school and could only use 2 of my scholarships. So have a secndary choice in mind.

Don't accept mediocrity , do your very best. I hate math for one but i still give it my all even though i'd rather draw. Do your best,keep your dreams in mind and fight like hell to keep them alive. Good Luck to you and all you adventures. God Bless.

[Elwell]

Every professional illustrator/concept artist I know is really, really smart. You have to be to succeed in this business. Check out the quality of the writing in posts here and you'll see a pretty high correlation with quality of artwork. Whether that was necessarily reflected in their high school grades is another story, but it is something worth pondering.

[thesinfulsaint]

I strongly encourage you to continue to keep your studies at a high priority. I'm so thankful that I've put a lot of time into my grades thus far; as of now, I'm tied for salutatorian in my class of 380. I've spent late evenings and weekends working on my artwork. While my artwork has greatly improved over the past years, it's my grades that are going to help set me apart when it comes down to scholarships.

So yes--keep up your grades!! You'll thank yourself later. :)

[Marsh]

I enjoy most of my classes except math. I love history and it is easy for me along with my english/reading/writing classes. I have some trouble with chemistry and haven't had time to really understand it. My grades are the worst they have been and this is mostly due to me struggling over math, eliminating this class (I'm currently studing Functions Statistics and trigonometry) will free up, not only time for drawing and other classes but relieve alot of stress and make me a much more happy person.

I am working towards a portfolio which contains a whole... 1 image as of now. I am thinking, once it is finished, adding http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=85773 to my portfolio as well.

[Maxine Schacker]

I've taken a look at your posted work. It would be a good idea for you to take some classes in perspective, traditional still life drawing, and life drawing. Studying these things will give you the drawings you'll need, in addition to your drawings from your imagintion, for your portfolio. Max the Mutt offers a July intensive drawing program teaching these things. If you can't find anything closer to home, give a thought to attending. The price is very reasonnable and class size is small. We've had several students who've come from the USA to attend between their junior and senior years in high shool.

[Justin.]

This is funny to me, because my parents made me take Analysis of Functions as well, even though it is COMPLETLEY unecessary. I am doing Junior/senior year at the same time though, so I already have a huge courseload. My Guidance counselors are being such jackasses, saying "if you don't get into art college you'll need a backup plan!!!!" So now I can't even transfer out of it. It provides about 50% of all the homework (out of 6 academic classes)


Only 6 months to go! Thank god. The only problem is with doing both of these at once, I totally forgot about scholarships and missed quite a few big art ones already =(

[Mirana]

Actually, it is your GPA and SAT/ACT scores that will get you into SCAD, not your portfolio. Your portfolio is only necessary when you go for scholarships. Also, keep in mind that you will have to take Science and Math in college, and that you have to maintain a 3.0 in your major to graduate. While I'm on that subject, I will mention that you should consider going to a local community college or university for your first two yrs and then transfer to SCAD, as no one in their right mind needs to spend $2100 on each math, science, english and public speaking class. This will also allow you maxium time to develop your portfolio for scholarships. Just a thought.

If you have any other questions about the major or school, try the MCAD vs SCAD thread. I'm about to finish my Seqa degree and I'll be happy to help with any other unanswered questions.

[Storyboard Dave]

Every professional illustrator/concept artist I know is really, really smart. You have to be to succeed in this business. Check out the quality of the writing in posts here and you'll see a pretty high correlation with quality of artwork. Whether that was necessarily reflected in their high school grades is another story, but it is something worth pondering.

I couldn't agree more.

I don't think any of us are saying you have to be a Mensa genius in order to be a successful artist, but a lot of them are very well read and very well educated. It helps to know a variety of things; it just gives us that much more knowledge to draw from (no pun intended).

I think some of the most successful people I've seen & met are the ones that can juggle some of the more mundane things in life AND still keep their passions going. A fair amount of it is time management, business skills, LOTS of passion (can't stress it enough), a wee bit of luck and just plain ol' hard work.

[Marsh]

I'll look up MCAD as well. I really am looking for something along a 2 year program that doesn't require any math or science related subjects, which I hear MCAD has. Does SCAD or any other schools provide the same?

[Storyboard Dave]

I'll look up MCAD as well. I really am looking for something along a 2 year program that doesn't require any math or science related subjects, which I hear MCAD has. Does SCAD or any other schools provide the same?

Upon reading this, it begs me to question...

Do you just want the cheapest easiest (and laziest) route through college?

Whatever happened to challenging yourself? Improving your weak points? If you just want a two year degree, go to a community college.

While it's great that you've acknowledged some of your weak points, what are you doing to improve upon them? What's going to happen to you when you really meet a challenge in life? Duck & cover?

If I knew that a certain aspect of my artistic skill was lacking, I would constantly be looking up ways to improve upon it. I'd be looking up other artists and see how they dealt with it. I'd be trying to find ways to compensate and improve. Why do you think there are so many older students in college? Not everyone there is between the ages of 18-21; there are many people at the school where I teach that are older than I am taking classes because they've been honest with themselves, realize that they lack something, want to come back and improve upon it.

You're only going to get what you put into it. If you want to aim low, that's what you'll get. After it's all done with, can you look back and be proud of an accomplishment? What have you overcome in life to get to where you are now?

Yes, it's daunting but you're never going to know unless YOU push yourself. We can't do it for you. Your parents can't do it for you. Your high school counselors can't do it for you. You've got to take responsibility for your own journey.

[Seedling]

Upon reading this, it begs me to question...

Now wait just a minute there. . . college is a good time to specialize, especially when one is aiming for a career as specialized as art. Math and science can be a genuine waste of time for college-level art students, particularly when time and money for education are limited.

Marsh, RISD is a four-year art school, but it won’t force you into unnecessary math or science classes.

[Elwell]

Any degree program, whether two- or four-year, is going to have academic requirements. Just be aware that college isn't like high school. There is plenty of choice as to what classes you take to fill your humanities credits. You can probably find classes that count as "math" or "science" that still have bearing on what you want to do.

[Marsh]

In response to Dave: I really want to specialize in the fields I wan to go into (Squential art and illustration) and I am willing to put in a much work and effort as necessary to achieve that.

RSID, I'll google that...

[Seedling]

Marsh - that's RISD - Rhode Island School of Design. Elwell is right in that every school is likely have Humanities courses of some sort. But the schools may not specifically require math or science, and you get more say in what classes you take.

[Storyboard Dave]

Now wait just a minute there. . . college is a good time to specialize, especially when one is aiming for a career as specialized as art. Math and science can be a genuine waste of time for college-level art students, particularly when time and money for education are limited.

Marsh, RISD is a four-year art school, but it won’t force you into unnecessary math or science classes.

Some can debate what classes truly are useful in college.

As far as specialization, that's what majors are for. And even within majors, there are classes that I'm sure we all took that we thought weren't as helpful as others. But that's part of the dance we all have to face in education.

What you think is a waste might really benefit someone else going into the same major as you so it behooves the schools to set up a well rounded curriculum even within their aim for specialization.

[Maxine Schacker]

I'll look up MCAD as well. I really am looking for something along a 2 year program that doesn't require any math or science related subjects, which I hear MCAD has. Does SCAD or any other schools provide the same?

Have you checked the website for Max the Mutt? (www.maxthemutt.com) The program is longer than 2 years, but it IS a career college and doesn't require math or science. However, it DOES require a professional attitude, a willingness to work hard and an awareness of just how much work one has to be willing to do to become a pro. Two years is not enough time for anyone to really develop.

[Marsh]

Have you checked the website for Max the Mutt? (www.maxthemutt.com) The program is longer than 2 years, but it IS a career college and doesn't require math or science. However, it DOES require a professional attitude, a willingness to work hard and an awareness of just how much work one has to be willing to do to become a pro. Two years is not enough time for anyone to really develop.

Yes I have MTM bookmarked for you directed me to it earlier in this thread. :D

Seed: AH! I found it regardless of the typo, thanks though!

Dave: I'll keep that in mind when I get bogged down with some classes.

[Mirana]

To answer the question on SCADs requirements, you do have to take one math and two science courses (one social).

[Storyboard Dave]

To answer the question on SCADs requirements, you do have to take one math and two science courses (one social).

I'm sure there are moans & groans about those classes at SCAD too and yet people begrudgingly take them, plod their way through it and graduate.

It's a part of the ugly dance that we do in order to get a BFA. Not all classes will be to everyone's liking, but realize why the administration people put them there- it's for your benefit.

Some of the classes that I took that I absolutely hated with a passion have also been the ones that I look back at and realize just exactly how valuable they are to me now. Amazing what a little perspective (no pun intended) can do for you now.

[Seedling]

What you think is a waste might really benefit someone else going into the same major as you so it behooves the schools to set up a well rounded curriculum even within their aim for specialization.

I’m sorry, but no, there is such a thing as wasted academic time. Take it from someone who regrets ever having taking Calculus, Latin, or Chemistry. I’m not saying that relevant non-art classes are a waste of time; I’m saying that the general ed classes found at universities that supposedly make one “well rounded” are a fat waste of time and money. Four years studying art on its own in college is barely enough to reach a point of professionalism. Cramming other crap into an art course-load is a recipe for turning a “back-up” career into a primary career.

To anyone headed into college: don’t trust the school to hand you precisely the education that you need. Identify what you need, and then find a way to get it. If that means arguing your way out of an irrelevant class, then do so. If that means transferring to a different school, then do so. If that means doing as little as possible in a particularly irrelevant but unavoidable course in order to make time for a particularly relevant course, then do so. The administration doesn’t necessarily know what’s best for you, so don’t let them force you into wasting your time, because it’s a very expensive waste of time.

[Storyboard Dave]

But isn't part of going to a particular school trusting the institution to come up with a curriculum that is best suited for students?

I'm not saying that they have everyone's best interest at hand, but they (the school) has to set up some sort of program for all their students. If it was left up to students to decide what classes they should take, it'd be anarchy. How would a student know whether a class is irrelevant to them unless they've been through it? Would each student just rely on their peers and hear-say to choose classes them? I agree that each student has his/ her individual needs but there is a certain part of blind trust that one must hand over to a school to guide them.

It's a VERY fine line in dictating your own course when you really might not even know what that course might be.

This also takes into consideration certain classes that have pre-requisites. I hear a lot of people who don't think that they're needed and yet if it wasn't for some of those classes weeding out some of the students, those advanced classes would be lesser due to the quality of students in them.

I do agree that one should be responsible for one's own educational journey but that's why choosing a curriculum with flexibility and relevancy is so important.

[Marsh]

Well tomorrow I am going to my school counselor and dropping FST (My math class). I hope replace this with website design which, once I graduate from high school I can use to build my own site from which I will start some freelance illustration to help with college and stuff as well as keep my comic page looking.. not crappy. Math, I salute you and wish you goodbye, maybe forever!

[Maxine Schacker]

Seedling, you are so intelligent, honest , and talented as well. I should have included "generous" in that list. Hats off.

[Storyboard Dave]

Math, I salute you and wish you goodbye, maybe forever!

In the academic sense, yes.

As much as I despised math in high school I also know it's uber valuable in the real world as well. In the art world I don't know how much we need trigonometry & beyond. But as I sit here writing up invoices to send to my clients, I realize that my basic math courses do help me with juggling the business end of art.

So a fond adieu in one sense but still keep enough of it around to be savvy in the real world as well.

[nilaffle]

I stopped taking my academic education seriously my last two years in high school. Didn't do community service, didn't get awesome SAT scores or a very high GPA (3.3, which actually isn't so bad). Six years out of high school and it still haunts me in unexpected ways. Do your best to get good grades, and if that means passing on classes that you don't need and may lower your GPA, that's perfectly fine.


"if you don't get into art college you'll need a backup plan!!!!"
I have to say, from my experience, that having a backup plan is a good idea. I earned a degree in communications (journalism and PR) two years ago, and I plan to go to art school for animation this fall. Having to put off my artistic development for 4-5 years was AGONIZING, but it's comforting to know that I have other skills than drawing to fall back on.

Hmm, I'll agree that as an artist there are just some classes you don't need to take. But isn't the point of high school to get a well-rounded background so that you have a better understanding of the direction you want to go in by college? As for college, I'd think that most art schools tailor their curriculums more to art than say, a liberal arts school would. I haven't seen an art school curriculum that made you take something completely off-the-wall like Chemistry or Calculus. Liberal arts schools focus more on the academia, but they often give you enough flexibility to pick classes interesting to you or related to your major.

I filled my science req in college with a biology class called Life of Birds. How's THAT for completely pointless? But now I have a better understanding of bird anatomy, so I draw them much more accurately. Even classes like Chemistry and Math can help make you a more well-rounded artist. There's no such thing as too much knowledge.

[Seedling]

Heehe. . . oops, I realize I’m a month late to replying, but. . .

But isn't part of going to a particular school trusting the institution to come up with a curriculum that is best suited for students?

I'm not saying that they have everyone's best interest at hand, but they (the school) has to set up some sort of program for all their students. If it was left up to students to decide what classes they should take, it'd be anarchy. . .

Anarchy! Chaos!

LOL. :-) I went to RISD, which is a great school. And still, if I hadn’t argued my way into classes that were otherwise barred to me, if I hadn’t continued my education outside of the illustration curriculum and the school, then I would not have learned what I needed to get the job I was after. There are many careers that do not have clear and direct educational paths to them. Specifically, in my case those were game art and game design, but these aren’t, however, the only careers that require educational off-roading and deliberate educational choices made by the student. Most college graduates seeking game art and design jobs need significant additional training before being ready for either, because the educations they are getting are inadequate or excessively unspecific, and because the students are unfortunately trusting of their educational institutions to hand them all of the skills they need. That trust is misplaced. While fixing the institutions would be a step in the right direction, in the mean time, the best way to help a student to get a successful education is to point out to them that they must grab the steering wheel and drive their education themselves.

Seedling. . . Hats off.

Oooh, quit that, now I’m all blushing. :-)