Fujitsu tablet pc's at the workshop

[Main Loop]

i saw a few of the instructors using these at the workshop, and i was curious about them, was wondering if its worth getting one... I was gonna ask nox about it, but i couldnt find him at a good time.. anybody have anything to add there?

[Requius]

Hey man, I was one of the guy's using a Fujitsu tablet pc
and I tell you that I am most pleased with it.

I hear a lot of talk about how great the Wacom Cintiq is but I tell ya,
comparitively, it's overrated. I've got one, an 18sx, and it's been
collecting dust ever since I've acquired my Fujitsu.
I've heard people talk about a bit of a delay with the Cintiq,
though I've never experienced that excepting when I have multiple
apps open that strain my processor's resources as the Cintiq is only a monitor,
same thing is true, of course, with my tablet (having both Painter and Photoshop open has never been a problem in that regard).

The main issue that I have with the Cintiq is the color is off even
after calibrating in multiple ways including using a Pantone Huey.
Granted, all monitors are a bit different, but I'm painting for print
and I cannot have my brown mountains printed as magenta nor
am I interested in spending valuable time and energy color correcting
every single illustration. Also, I like that the tablet stylus is way more comfortable to work with (shaped and sized more like a pencil) than Wacom's fat grip - for me that feels much more natural and has cut down on hand fatigue. Comparitively, the only advantage I see that the Cintiq offers is it's
screen size but then my sketchbook sized tablet is adequate;
if I just have to have more viewing space I can easily plug in another monitor.

I haven't seen anything in my Fujitsu documentation about how many levels of
pressure sensitivity it has, but it is at least as sensitive as the 18sx (512 levels) if not more; whatever the case, it's touchy enough.
Something to be aware of is that with any "Penabled" tablet, you must go to Wacom's site to download a universal tablet pc driver to activate the sensitivity.

I bought mine about three months ago for $2500.
It's a T4210 Lifebook, 80 gig hard drive, 1 gig of ram,
2 ghz Intel processor and loaded with quite a few whistles and bells
that I'll probably never use such as the thumbprint sensor for password
security. The battery lasts 3 hours and takes about an hour or so to
fully charge. Oh and something else that's pretty cool is that it has a shock
absorber in case you drop it or if you want to tote it around without turning it off.

Fujitsu has a respectable reputation for it's tablets but I've got a couple of friends who have somewhat recent Toshibas that are good too.
You might want to stay away from the Gateways though as they do not use the Wacom Penabled technology so you have to get a patch for each
program to get the pressure sensitivity and the stylus is significantly heavier.
And I don't think there's a patch for Painter.

If you decide to spring for a tablet, you should also look into getting a screen protector for it. Dust and grit can stick to the oils that smudge onto the screen from your hand or smoke and if you're like me, and go wild with speed painting from time to time, those particles can leave scratches.
Even with a screen protector, be prepared to clean it often.
Two protectors (which are plastic films) were included with mine but
they're crap. A really good set of 5 sell for about $70, though
I don't foresee myself needing more than one as they're very durable.

I think that about covers it.
I'll be happy to answer whatever other questions you guys might have.

It was an exquisite pleasure to experience the workshop with everyone,
worth every penny.

[deltron05]

Indeed. Cintiq is not what i was expecting. I tried it and i honestly don't enjoy it . We have one at my work and i rather be on my Wacom and my wide 21 inch screen. I own a Laptop and i want to sell it and get a PC tables such as this one T4210 Lifebook. In montreal's WS i spoke to Nox abut it and i had the chance to try his Lappie and honestly ..it's the best response i have ever seen on any digital mediums. The Fujitsu is probably the best choice in therms of mobility and accuracy. Great stuff and i recomend it above any Wacom even tho i own one !
Cheers

[Main Loop]

is the lifebook a slate pc or a convertible?

[davi]

all i know is you need to get the future verisons of the product because the resolution of the earlier brands is not as on par with the current models.

i saw many of the professionals using the tablets and they stated it was just as good as a cintiq (i hope wacom doesnt mind me saying that since wacom does work with fujitsu). Many of the artists who used them got wireless keypad devices that would allow them to program in shortcuts. It's something i really would like to try out.

[Main Loop]

hmm really? wow, as good as the cintiq? how could that be? the pressure levels dont even compare with the cintiq, i have to see for myself..

[deltron05]

Yep....even better !

[Main Loop]

does anybody know a place i can try one out? ....beside at the workshop?

[Pontemonti]

I just noticed that PC Magazine has a Buying Guide for tablet PCs. I haven't read it so I can't say if it's any good, but I guess it can be worth reading if you're looking to buy a tablet PC...

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2074698,00.asp

A short quote from the only paragraph I actually did read:
If your system doesn't al-ready have Windows Vista loaded, make sure you get a free upgrade coupon. Most vendors will offer them, and it will make your tablet experience that much better.

[Main Loop]

cool, thanks for the article link, most of it was common sense stuff anyway

[BludHund]

Hey Main Loop, I brought my Toshiba Tecra M7 to the workshop, its considerably bigger and heavier than the Fujitsus, but it has a larger screen and probably more power-to-dollar ratio (miniaturization is expensive).

I bought a tablet because I needed a laptop, but I also wanted a larger tablet and a smaller display for my desktop rig hopefully with a port replicator and some remote desktop shenanigens I can realize this dream :D

I don't know that I would call it better than a Cintiq, but for most of us that's a moot point. Anyhoo, here's a summary of what I got:

14" widscreen display, Wacom Penabled digitizer (256 levels I think), 512 megs of ram (easily upgradeable to 1024 for about $150), a 60 gig harddrive, CD/DVD burner, a/b/g wireless (some additional dongles will activate bluetooth support), integrated video card (has an option for a deedicated one).

all for about $1500, and weighs 6 lbs

Also, Toshiba had made a SXGA monitoir option for their ultra-compact Portege model (I also heard a rumor that the Portege had a 512-levels digitizer, equivalent to a Wacom Graphire)

Its expensive for just a laptop, but I love it to death.

[benzo]

I've been doing research for a tablet pc as well. It seems like the best you can do is read what others have to say, and then take a risk with one of them, since you can't try them out at Best Buy, CompUSA, or Circuit City. The posts on here have been very helpful, Thanks! I've also found some decent reviews on these two sites:

http://www.tabletpcreview.com
the user reviews/ opinions on here are extremely useful

http://www.tabletpc2.com/
(this site is not too up to date)

and of course cnet.com

Here are my contenders and their specs from memory:

IMB Lenovo X60- reliable brand quality, up to 4gb of RAM, choice of high res SXGA screen or lower res screen that is touchable (fingerpainting?), shock absorbing hard drive technology, but integrated video card only, pricey, and not pretty. Probably designed more for business than art.

Asus R1- not sure about the brand and quality, pretty design, except for the pen insert that scratches the plastic pen up, good screen, Core 2 Duo processors, but integrated graphics only.

Electrovaya SC3000- would be taking a big risk with this one, but its a very interesting design. I'm not sure if the keyboard and trackpad are detacheable, could be very convenient if they are. weaker Centrino processor, integrated video card

Toshiba-
- Portege M400- nice 12.1" SXGA screen (up to 1400x1050), Core 2 Duo, integrated graphics only, loud fan
- Tecra M7- Core 2 Duo, big screen 14.1" (1400x900) but indoors only, nice dedicated video card nVidea with 128mb, may not be as portable as a 12", even though it is supoosedly lightweight for it's size, @ 6 lbs with standard battery, screen has very poor viewing angles

Fujitsu LifeBook T4215- Core 2 Duo, 12.1" indoor/outdoor XGA screen, integrated graphics only, the screen swivels either way, so you don't have to worry about accidentally breaking it, up to 4 Gb RAM

Are all Penabled tablets just 256 levels? It is hard to find this out in the specs I've seen.

[Requius]

Hey benzo, hit me up at figure drawing on Mondays and I'll let you give it a spin.
I'd like to make it a weekly ritual agian.

Yeah, I saw the 256 levels on the the Cintiq vs. tablet pc page,
but to me it seems just as sensitive as the 1024 levels I had on my Intuos 2.
What do those levels represent anyway? Would a level be on an individual pixel basis? How could it get finer? If that's the case, then when's the last time you used a 256 sized brush and needed the whole range in one stroke?!?

-Steven

[Pontemonti]

Some general advice:

If I would buy a new pc (be it desktop, laptop or tablet pc) today, I would make sure to get one with a "real" dedicated video card. If you want to run Windows Vista with the new Aero UI, you will need one. (Vista actually thought my GeForce Go7400 card wasn't good enough - graphics got a score of only 2/5 - and disabled Aero. I enabled it manually though and it is working ok...but could probably be a whole lot better/smoother)

I also don't see a reason not to get the Core 2 Duo (which is 64 bits, compared to Core Duo which is 32 bits). I have one, and most things seem to work in Vista x64. So, no reason to stay away from 64-bit anymore.

Make sure you get plenty of RAM - no less than 1GB, and more if you can afford it. I'm using around 1GB (I have 2GB) in Vista all the time - with a few programs loaded (Outlook, Opera) it is usually above 1GB, although that can probably be optimized by unloading some services etc.

[Main Loop]

can you get other video cards for tablet pc's? im pretty ignorant about laptops, idont even know how much you can even customize the hardware on those things..

[Pontemonti]

can you get other video cards for tablet pc's? im pretty ignorant about laptops, idont even know how much you can even customize the hardware on those things..
You mean if you can go buy a video card, open up the laptop, and plug it in? (as you would do on a desktop PC...so you can get a new video card whenever you want/need)
Then the answer is no. Unless there are some crazy, big laptops where you can, but then you would still be limited by choice of card (I'm pretty sure most desktop PC cards wouldn't work as there wouldn't be enough air inside the laptop to cool the card), and if there are special "laptop video cards" they are probably expensive.

The only (?) things you can usually (not always) change on a laptop is RAM and hard-drive. And possibly cd/dvd on some models.

[Main Loop]

yeah thats what i figured.... ive looked into the graphics cards that come with the ones im interested in: Integrated Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 950 -- seems liek a decent stock card, is it good enough for handling photoshop and painter?

[cass]

Integrated Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 950 -- seems liek a decent stock card, is it good enough for handling photoshop and painter?

Yes my friend. i've been trying out my cousins' laptop that has the vid card (this isn't a tablet pc, just yee ordinary laptop) painter and photoshop work fine on it. don't bother trying new games though. .................... ( though would we want to? We're here to paint!

[Pontemonti]

Integrated Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 950 -- seems liek a decent stock card, is it good enough for handling photoshop and painter?
This is fine for 2D applications, so photoshop and painter will work. But if you're planning to play any games, or if you want to run Windows Vista with the new Aero theme (which is 3D accelerated), it won't work. I can't say this for sure, but I have a feeling that your laptop / tablet pc will look a bit dated in about a year from now, when more and more people are running Vista and you can "only" use the Basic theme (which is 2D like XP, but still looks like Vista).

[_Mario]

This is fine for 2D applications, so photoshop and painter will work. But if you're planning to play any games, or if you want to run Windows Vista with the new Aero theme (which is 3D accelerated), it won't work. I can't say this for sure, but I have a feeling that your laptop / tablet pc will look a bit dated in about a year from now, when more and more people are running Vista and you can "only" use the Basic theme (which is 2D like XP, but still looks like Vista).Now don't quote me on that but I read in some (somewhere on the net, I don't know where now) CS3 beta review/s that CS3 can use a good graphics card for filter and layer effects and some other stuff.

I don't know if that is true but if it is then that allows for another ugrade possibility besides more RAM and a better processor. So I wouldn't just disregard options on better graphics cards; just remember that I can't confirm this (but I am looking for these reviews), that's just something that I read somewhere.

[Stahr]

Why would I ever want aero in win vista? and you could surely run win xp for some years from now.
a person doing mostly graphics on the computer would mostly want a basic interface that don't interfere with the stuff you're working on.
so, ram is better choice than graphics card I guess.

[Pontemonti]

Why would I ever want aero in win vista? and you could surely run win xp for some years from now.
a person doing mostly graphics on the computer would mostly want a basic interface that don't interfere with the stuff you're working on.
so, ram is better choice than graphics card I guess.
I'd say that aero is pretty neat, and that it doesn't interfere with your work, at least not with the stuff I'm working on. but I guess it's the same as with everything else; some people will like it and some will hate it.
And you can run XP for a few more years, but it will feel old compared to Vista. Plus it's less secure. I just don't see why you would get a new computer today and not have it run Vista. people already running XP SP2 don't have to run out and upgrade

But I have to agree; if the choice is between a dedicated graphics card and (say) 1024MB RAM instead of 512MB, the RAM is definitely more important. (but then again, you can always add more RAM later so perhaps you should get that dedicated graphics card anyway...)

[Main Loop]

hmm well i wont be playing any games on a tablet pc.... why??
but stuff like RAM will probably be very important... I'll probaby wait till Vista becomes the standard, since they'll be made to run stuff with it

[Cheshire]

I had a chance to try a new Toshiba Tablet PC yesterday and I had a few observations I thought I'd point out :

1. Something I can do on my wacom that I realized I can't do on a tablet pc is lay a piece of paper over my drawing area (for texture). When I first bought my wacom tablet I hated the slick surface. It wasn't until I taped down a piece of nice paper that I really clicked with it. So this is an important point for me.

2. Viewing angle was an issue on the model that I tried. I think it was a Toshiba Tecra M7. I sat there painting for an hour and I thought I was painting a dark piece and I couldn't figure out why I couldn't get my highlights light enough. I thought maybe it was a brush setting or something, since I wasn't used to the software... finally, just when I finish and I'm closing the screen I see my painting from the proper angle. The whole damn thing was light! Turns out I wasted an hour working on an overly-bright, low-contrast painting... feh. This is something you could get used to as long as you keep good posture, but it still bugged me.

3. No eraser. The model I had didn't have one. No big deal, but this was the flip-over style, so I didn't have access to the keyboard either. It seems like I would have to buy a little keypad for shortcuts to make this thing useable.

4. There was just a slight hint of lag. Very slight, almost not noticeable, and only with larger brushes (I'm talking 25+ px brushes, so not huge). For me it was just bad enough to break the illusion of direct interaction... but no big deal. Also, the system had a bunch of crap running in the background, like chat programs and google desktop, so maybe that was slowing it down.

All in all I guess I'm happy with my wacom. If you need something portable then you're pretty much stuck with a tablet pc, but if you think a tablet pc is going to be an upgrade over your Wacom, then I'd say think again.

...just my 2 cents...

This is also my first post. Hi.

[Requius]

"I had a chance to try a new Toshiba Tablet PC yesterday and I had a few observations I thought I'd point out :"


Hey Chesire,

1. High end screen protectors considerably add a more tactile feel -one of the reasons they're high end and priced.

2. the viewing angle's just fine with the Fujitsu T4210.

3. got an eraser too, though I prefer my eraser set to a sidebutton,and there is an onscreen keyboard but setting up a wireless usb keyboard's not a big deal or do as a friend of mine and use a usb Playstation-like controller with your shortcuts programmed in.

4.yep, background programs contribute to lag which is never an issue for me;
I couldn't care less about instant messaging when I'm painting.

It's not at all that I'm "stuck" with my tpc but that I prefer it over
both the Intuos and Cintiq. To me it was and is major upgrade.
My only regret if any was that I could've saved hundreds of dollars
had I done a little research into the features that are important as opposed to just shelling out for the most expensive one Fry's had in stock;
I mean I really don't have a need for this knob that transforms it into
a vibrating orifice. It's nice though.:wink:

But yeah, if you're using an Intuos and the same software,
we have the same production capabilities, so you're not really missing out.

What sold me on it was primarily the portablility.
Most of my waking conciousness I am working, freelance, and I begin to feel
cooped up being at home all the time. Just having a change of scenery
and being on the fringes of a random social atmosphere at a locally-owned
24 hour coffee shop does wonders to ward off the profound sense of isolation
that creeps in after spending days not seeing or speaking to another human being. It's a great conversation piece. I like that it sounds like ninjitsu so that when someone asks, I can strike a pose. They immediately think I'm cool or a silly fuck, maybe both, but regardless I've found that a ninja stance effectively puts people off guard. If I can ever justify the time I'd like to make some sticker decals (better yet an ostrich leather or snakeskin cover...) that would make it look like some kind of exotic weapon.

It's something that I can hold on to. Always felt a disconnect with tablets.
I thought it was pretty fun when I first bought one but it always felt more like I was playing a video game or something as opposed to immersing myself into an act of creating. I didn't discover the pleasure of painting until I slipped into it by accident with the Cintiq. Guess I just have to be up close and personal with my work as it hums along.

Aside from the color integrity versus the 18sx that I mentioned earlier,
you're right, it's not that much of an upgrade for production,
but to me, certainly one of lifestyle.

[Cheshire]

Thanks for the counterpoint, Requius. Sounds like I just had a bad experience. I think I'll look into the Fujitsu T4210...

[Jabo]

I'm thinking about buying a laptop because I will mostly be out as soon as my studies begin. Is it worth getting a T4210 instead of just a usual ... Dell laptop or something of that kind? I'm really interested, but the price is risky. A good normal laptop can cost 1,500 aswell. I was considering a MacBookPro. So there's Mac on one side (I was planning to get rid of all Windows-ness and finally get a private mac) and the Fujitsu on the other...

Too bad there's no way to try them out. Same goes for Wacoms, but they don't cost 1,500 bucks.