koopa's car studies

[koopas]

Hi everyone,

I've decided to start my own little sketchbook here, to give me that extra bit of motivation and dedication.. which I know I'll need to help me improve my drawing :dur:

I'm really interested in drawing vehicles, especially cars.
My main goal is to be able to draw cars accurately and to really learn and understand how perspective works.

so anyway, I would really appreciate any comments or criticisms you guys can give me

thanks for passing by :tihi:

[koopas]

for this first post I tried just doodling cars, although as you can see, I still really struggle with perspective and how shapes foreshorten.

[koopas]

I also tried copying photos of cars to help me understand how shapes foreshorten.. I just focused on drawing the silhouette for now, and then overlayed my sketches to see how accurate I actually was, hehe :blahblah:

[kawakaze]

getting perspective on cars is pretty hard. what is your approach? im far from mastering it but i can try n help. usually i start from the wheel base. define your wheels and the distance between them. usually its no less than 3x between front and rear. i would start doing profile views, once u get comfortable w that try playing with perspective. but similar with a lot of other objects, look at the car as if it was a box and start breaking down the elements of it into simple shapes. the wheels again are the hardest part i think. for the wheelbase in a perspective view, the line that bisects the wheels is going to fade back to the vanishing points. if i am not explaining this correctly let me know, also try cardesignnews.com and look around on there. there are some awsome tutorials along with incredible portfolios and up to date news on the industry.

as for your designs it comes across looking like a lamborghini aimed at the same market as the honda civic. its cool to see the influences behind them.

[tokidokizenzen]

Hi koopas
Are you familiar with Scott Robertson? If not you should definitely check out his stuff. He has a great workshop that I found extremely helpful.
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/sro01.html
Pick up this DVD if you can, you won't be dissappointed.

[kawakaze]

^^definetly! i have his book, i need to go check out the video.

[Miro]

hi, i'm not so good at drawing cars and it's cool that you're studying the perspectives

i read this book and they say that with a car, you have to start with the basic perspective like when you do a house, but with car-shapes

it's the basic principle like a face, when you draw a face you start with a rough shape (an egg-like thingy) and then you add things like a nose, ears, eyes, lips, ...

try drawing a car this way, first draw a carform using squares or rectangulars drawn in perspective
________
/_________/|
| | |
| | | ---->like this, but way cooler and using the right perspective
|_________|/

and then try to soften the shapes and make it look like a car
that's what i would do i guess

[Miro]

hah =) it was supposed to look like a cube

damn you change-after-posting-thingy

[koopas]

hey kawakaze,
thanks for the tips !! I have a similar approach I also start from the wheelbase, then draw the silhouette. I just seem to get lost when it comes to drawing all the shapes and curves properly in perspective. But, I think I will get myself more comfortable with drawing profile views first.. and then like you said I can start playing with perspective then. I'll also try and start with a box as well, and use that as a guide to help me with perpsective :)
and I'll check out those car tutorials on cardesignnews too !! hehe
thanks again

- hey tokidokizenzen,
cool name btw.. hehe (sounds funny)
anyway, I have seen some of scott robertsons videos, and it was helpful to me too, but I'm still getting used to using perspective all the time in my drawings, and some of his techniques seem really advanced!!

-hi Miro,
I like your cube example !! hehehe
but, I understand what you mean, start off with basic shapes first huh..
and then maybe curve the edges to make more car-looking shapes
it's a good way, I'll definetley try it, thanks for the advice !!

[koopas]

Hi,

these are some sketches I did today, a few profile views of cars to help me get used to proportions and experiment with dif. designs, and a couple of cars I copied from photo ref.
Any comments and criticisms, you have would be great,
thanks

[tokidokizenzen]

Looking good koopas.

Yeah some of Scott Robertsons techniques can get pretty advanced. And when you watch him sketch in the DVD he makes it look so easy. But, one thing he stresses is the importance of the wheels and their axis. This part although looking real simple is very subtly difficult to get right. After practice though you will get it right eventually. And once you do that you will have a strong foundation for a concept.

Do lots of these sketches;http://www.poppon.com/temp/wheels.jpg

[koopas]

Thanks tokidokizenzen, those wheels and axis really aren't as easy they seem, I'll definetley have to keep practising them, but they are helping me a lot..
I really appreciate the advice, thanks :)


and a couple of sketches I did as well.. any c&c is always welcome

[koopas]

these are some exercises I did to practise drawing elipses and help me understand more about how to draw wheel axis.. I wasn't sure about how to know that I was drawing the correct degree for an elipse.. and I don't quite understand how to check if the degree is correct??
any advie or help would be great,
thanks :)

[kawakaze]

your getting the idea but your elipses look out of perspective. get one of those elipse templates. its good to practice doing them freehand but they will look so crisp and it will save u time. also u can easily set up your perspective points and vanishing points accuratly using the guides/marks on most them.

this may explain it clearer.

http://archive.cardesignnews.com/studio/tutorials/040723quick-sketch/sketch3.html

[Miro]

i see you're using perspective now :)
i know i've got a book about perspective here somewhere
but i can't friggin' find it!
so i'll keep searching, and if i find it i'll ask a friend of mine to scan in the pages for you?
there's a part about a car too

"Go now brave knight, your quest awaits!" :}

oh, and try to work with your horizon
if the distance between the car and the horizon is rather large, than it'll seem like you're looking at the car from somewhere high
if the distance is rather small, you'll be looking at it from a whole other level, keep that in mind :)

keep up the studies

[Miro]

don't know if this is a way to draw ellipses but just give it a look :)
http://www.technologystudent.com/designpro/isomet2.htm

scroll down, a bit past the middle of the page you'll see a tire (it looks like a tire) and how it's created in 2-point perspective, i hope it's usefull
http://www.scottmcdaniel.net/drawing/perspective/primer.html

and now to find my book about perspective ..
cheers & good luck

[koopas]

Just a few more studies, trying to get my head around how perspective works..
so far, I'm finding these exercises helping my understanding a bit more,
although I find drawing cylinders more difficult than just making squares..
anyway,
comments and criticisms always welcome :)



and thanks for the tips miro, if you could find that perspective book and scan those pages for me.. that would be great !! :)
appreciate it

[koopas]

well, I'm still keeping the perspective studies up :)
I'm finding it really helpful in understanding and trying out different angles.
I still want to practise drawing box forms from the wheel axis and try and get the hang of drawing elipses more.

Any suggestions or c&c, would be great, thanks.

[koopas]

hi, did some more perspective studies today.. trying to understand more how to draw elipses, so they look like they are correct and in perspective.. and basically getting myself used to seeing and drawing foreshortened circles and squares..
well, that's it for now,if there's any c&c you can give,
I'd very much appreciate it !!
thanks :)

[gabahadatta]

i hope this will help you someway and you will understand it (though some translation problems :P) :

[perspective point = vanishing point]
1) construction of an elipse - angle beetween it's axis is ALWAYS 90 degrees. only one of them (usually the shorter one) connects to the perspective point.
2) "good view" area - things outside it tend look unnatural for human's eye (ofc you don't have to use it, especially when you want to create some effect (just like lens in photography) but it is good base for start ;))

[koopas]

- Thanks Gabahadatta,
I found your explanantion very helpful to me and I understood it well, I much appreciate it, thanks


hi, just a couple more perspective and elipse studies I did today..
if there are any comments or criticism you can give, that would be great again,
thanks.

[gabahadatta]

your elipse is still not correct. remember about the angle between axis (90 degrees)

when you want to draw a square in perspective, draw 3 of it's lines and a correct elipse in it first! it's very important for create a perfect square - elipse will create a correct distance between the lines.
remember: the same rules are for every elipse (in the horizontal ones axis don't connect to vanishing point but go straight vertical. with elipses that are placed with different angles you will have to create other vanishing points, but it's way too early for that ;) for now draw only "standard" elipses and squares, don't turn them in x or y axis. only z and move is allowed at this moment for you ;))

oh, and draw bigger perspective sketches, it will be easier for you to understand the rules (use at least 5-10cm for elipse's longer axis) ;) don't try to draw a car, just train elipses and squares :)

i hope it will help you :)

and remember: circle in perspective=elipse. elipse that you draw should be truly 2D elipse, not transformed in any way [exept only slightly difference in its thickness between half made by axis that is closer to you and the one closer to horizon]. its axes should not be in perspecive (this means the angle between them must have 90degrees)

[koopas]

hi, continuing with my ellipse studies still.. :)
any c&c welcome,
thanks


Gabahadatta - thank you for the advice and help.. :)
I am just wondering if you can please help me to know what steps I should do when practising to draw the standard ellipses.. or the correct order I should do things.
for example,
- I draw the three lines first,
- then I draw the short axis, (but, I don't know where to intersect it along the vertical line)
- Then I draw the major axis, at a 90 degree to the short axis.
- Then I draw the ellipse, around these lines.
and can you explain more to me please, what you mean by, only moving the z axis?? I'm not sure what this means exactly.. :P
thanks for your help :)

[koopas]

hi, tried few more ellipses again..
they're looking quite off though, I need to practise getting the right shape.
I'm trying to keep the axis at 90 degrees, maybe need to try and get the curves more accurate and mirrored.
any c&c would be great
thanks

[gabahadatta]

your elipses are getting better :)

draw them with one gesture - a looong curved line, not few short ones. and don't afraid to draw it more than once in one place [sorry for crappy english :P] and draw them BIG, it will be a lot easier for you to learn.

here's some step by step:
split the vertical line into two same parts, and connect the new point with the V.P.
the first choice for center of an elipse is only "more less", it can change during drawing - there is no perfect step by step, you'll need to try few times every time until it looks good. [for "fresh view" (your eye will get use to your mistakes after some time and you will just not see them) you can rotate your paper and look upside down, this trick helps a lot :P]
the last step is to check if all lines connect to vanishing points etc.

and can you explain more to me please, what you mean by, only moving the z axis?? I'm not sure what this means exactly.. :P
it should be "only turning around Z-axis and vertical&horizontal moving". or something like that :P
i mean than two lines in square always should be vertical but you can rotate the square around one of them (it's the Z axis, it'll make square in perspective wider or more narrow), and by move i mean that you can draw them in different "height" - under and over horizon ;)

cheers :)

[kawakaze]

awsome to see you are so determined at ellipses=D your setting it up correctly, the only thing that throws it off is how u postion the elipses particularly the axis which trails back the vanishing points. getting a set of ellipse templates will help out a lot esp if you are considering getting into the automotive/product design industry. if u do purchase some, make sure to get a set which has the minor/major axis labeled so u can allign it w your vanishing points. as far as getting clean elipses goes. the way i was taught was to use a pen or something that will not give u too much surface friction. spend a lot of time doing imaginary elipses hovering right above the paper and then when u feel like u have it just lay it down in one quick motion. draw colums and try and fill it up with identical elipses. do this about 5000 times and u will get the hang of it. on sketches it looks cool but again get some templates. rulers are not cheating. if u want it clean thats the way to go.

[koopas]

hi, just continuing with my ellipse studies and drew a few more today.


Gabahadatta - Thanks again for your help, I understand more clearly now what you meant before. But, I think I need to practise more where I place the centre of the elipse when I draw the minor axis.. because it often looks too narrow at the bottom compared to the top :)

Kawakaze - Thanks, I think I will practise drawing the same elipse in columns to hlpe me get used to using a single motion.. and I will defineltely consider purchasing some elipse guides as well :)

[gabahadatta]

it will take some time before you'll get the right proportions of squares and elipses. but it will come with practice.

and some quick notes ;) :

[koopas]

hi, just did a few more ellipse studies today :P

as always any c&c would be appreciated,
thanks.


Gabahadatta - Thanks for the notes, I really appreciate it!! :)
I tried to work on the proportions of the square and ellipse more..

[koopas]

hi, some more ellipse studies that I did today.
any c&c is always welcome,
thanks :)


Gabahadtta - I realised with my last ellipses they look all wrong becasue I didn't use the major axis at a 90 degree angle :bashful: I think I misunderstood the previous notes and thought I could use the vertical half way of the square, to help me get the proportions of the square and ellipse correct.
I have a tendency to forget the fundamental rules, I have to rememeber always to use them :P anyway thanks again.

[kawakaze]

try drawing a bunch of elipses in diff positions but on the same perspective plane. this way you can see how elipses are distorted and get a better understanding of how the minor axis works. it may also be helpful to start even simpler and do a row of elipses on the same plane in one point perspective. also try doing one just by proportioning or dividing up a square into midpoints for use as reference just to get a better understanding of how they work. feel free to draw some rims too, your gonna drive yourself crazy doing just elipses

[koopas]

hi, just did a few more studies today :)
any c&c is always welcome,
thanks,

kawakaze - Thanks, I will definetley start trying some of the things you said. I just want to practise more drawing the shape the of the ellipses :P

[koopas]

hi, did a few more ellipses today, just keeping the studies going..
Any c&c would be great, thanks!! :bounce:

[kakapoopie]

I'm also very into cars and have been drawing them for a couple years. Heres some crappy quick perspective guides (not perfect but you get the idea) and a link to a very good forum for car design speedanddesign.net

good work practicing on ellipses...they are the trickiest part of the car (IMO). Try to be looser with them, i can tell you're using your wrist and going very slowly. lock your wrist and use your whole arm, moving only your shoulder and allitle bit of your elbow to draw the ellipse. see how that works out. it may be crappy at first, but practice a few pages with this technique and your ellipses should improve. and remmeber they're circles (in perspective) so everything has to be symmetrical. no wobblyness or one corner bulging/ whatnot.

2 point perspective may be tough to start off with...you can "cheat" and do a ground level 3/4 view (like this)http://speedanddesign.net/v-web/bulletin/mx/modules/mx_smartor/album.php?smartor_mode=album_pic&pic_id=2791where all the perspective lines go horizontal and its easier to get perspective right that way.


hope this helps

[koopas]

hi, just a few more ellipse studies.
Any c&c is always welcome,
thanks :)

kakapoopie - thanks for your example it was really useful and your advice on drawing ellipses more loosley I've started to do.. it's quite difficult to get the hang of at first, but I'll keep practising using that technique :)
cheers !!

[koopas]

hi, just a few more ellipses :)
thanks anyone if you have any c&c that would be great,
cheers :P

[koopas]

hi, a couple more ellipses for today :)
any c&c would be great,
thanks :P

[gabahadatta]

not bad :)

try to keep the ellipse's shape - some of them still look like eggs ;)

maybe every time you construct one also try to draw a bunch of "stand alone" ellipses - without square construction in perspective - just to practise the shape of it.


oh, and you should always check if the ellipse is constructed correctly (last step of this .gif http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66898&stc=1&d=1166846497)
i'll try to draw more precisely this step (and the next one so you could draw cubes etc correctly) as soon as i find some free time (in 2 week maybe? but i can't prmise :()

[koopas]

hi, just a few more ellpise studies
if there's any c&c that would be great
thanks :)

Gabahadatta - hey :) yes thanks, if you could do that sometime that would be great too, thanks!! bye!!

[koopas]

hi, just did a couple of studies today
thanks for any comment or crit :)

[koopas]

Hi, just a few more studies,
any c&c will be great thanks :)

[koopas]

Hi, practised a few more ellipse studies today
as alawys any c&c is welcome,
thanks :P

[koopas]

Hi, just some ellipses
any c&c would be great,
thanks :)

[koopas]

hi, just continuing with the ellipses, I'm also trying to draw some wheels..
any help or c&c you can give me would be great :P
thanks!!

[koopas]

hi, just a few more ellipses, trying to draw some wheels as well,
anyways, any tips, c&c, that would be great!
cheers :)

[koopas]

hi, just practising a few more ellipses :)
any c&c is alwways appreciated,
thanks

[koopas]

hi, just continuing with ellipse studies and trying to start drawing more wheels,
any c&c would be great,
thanks :)