Need help, will listen

[Joeslucher]

This is a piece for Baeg Tobar. It's not only really bad but really stale. How do you professionals keep an image from being stale when you're going to have to work so many areas of the image?

http://host321.ipowerweb.com/~joesluch/Images/New%20Folder/btmoons2.jpg

I love paintovers by the way.
Here's the brief so that you have an idea of what had to be in it.
Diuntyne: A farmer is turning his field with a great habback and a plow. The sun is gone, or at least leaving the last streak of color on the horizon. Diun is full and about halfway to reaching its apex. It burns so bright that the farmer and the habback both have sharp shadows running beside them. Visablity is still fairly far, even if details of the distant hills are muted. The light is cool, and mist is beginning to rise from a nearby creek as the world loses its heat. Along the edge of the field, phospherescent plants are beginning to glow in reaction to Diun. Bluestar Ivy is glowing in the trees near the creek. At this time of the year, Lakshi is ahead in the rotation, coming off it's apex. The second full moon is green and the blue clouds streak across its surface. The colors and distance make Lakshi less reflective. It is smaller than Diun in the sky, maybe by a third. Nurom Misuer is near setting on the right. It is a bright red star.
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[Seedling]

The problem is that you’ve got a complex image made up of a lot of individual elements, only some of which you seem to have a good handle on.

Try focusing on some smaller assignments for a while. Paint a rock – make it look good. Paint a tree – make it look good. Etc.

Aside from the challenge of rendering all of those bits and pieces, there’s the additional challenge of composition. This composition isn’t attention-grabbing. Your humans look like they should be the focus of attention, but the are lost among the dark details and squashed into the bottom of the image. You need to pick a focus and arrange the image around it to support that focus using color and light and shape.

I suggest putting this aside and moving on to your next piece.

[Ultraviolet]

I think you need to add stronger highlights at the edges of things. Especially on the figures and of course, in the water. The figures seem to get a little lost without it. Also, I'd suggest cropping some off the top, and bring down the moons, would help bering things together a little more.

I've done a really quick paintover. By no means perfect, but I hope it will give you an idea and show you how it can bring some of things out a little more :)

And of course the cropping is more of a suggestion than anything.

[RocknOats]

I agree with Seedling, you should (hate to say it) scrap this version and start a sounder composition with just the basic elements. You NEED a farm, a stream and a tree. Make a composition of those elements that works, and then add the other details after you've set the foundations. This version looks as if you went across the page adding each individual element from a list. You can easily incorporate everything you need, but have a strong foundation to place them in.

[CCThrom]

Hey Joe, I know you're feeling a bit frustrated right now... but I also know I've seen really good stuff from you. Maybe you should make playdoh models of EVERYthing before you paint? Just kidding!

The highlights are a good addition, as you know I'm a big fan of highlights.

But seriously, the main problem here is overall composition I think. Seedling & Oats really hit the nail on the head already. Your composition is almost like a grid... nothing is more important than anything else.

Your work can have a lot of fun and character to it. Some of your stuff is great. When it doesn't work as well, I've noticed 3 main issues...

1) When you try for a complex composition with lots of elements, you tend to lose focus... which happened here. Composition is a skill that you can study like any other. The only guy I can think of off the top of my head who goes into it deeply is Loomis, but I'm sure there are others.

2) Work on landscape perspective. You're generally good with buildings and interiors, but your outdoor perspective often tends to look like stage cutouts more than receeding spaces. I think this is at least partially an issue with digital painting... perhaps it's as easy as using more color/value transition in the shapes of your landmasses. I'm not great with the digipaints though, so maybe someone else can chime in. Also check the perspective on that wall.

3) Finish. Particularly in the small details (like the fisherman here) you look chunky and unfinished. Perhaps you need to work on a larger canvas or perhaps you need to take the time to work in with smaller brushes.

'Kay, that's it for me... don't lose heart though, we ALL go through those times of wondering if we're good enough. Ok maybe some of them don't but they're freaks. I don't know if you want to start over, but if you do I oughta at least be able to work with ya on general composition skill.

[QuantumSuz]

Thought I'd have a quick go at one of these paintovers :) I agree that the composition isn't perfect, but I think that the piece can be improved by altering the atmosphere, via substantial highlights and lowlights.

I think that the red area just doesn't work, it cuts the image in half, and thus I tried to give it some more blue tones - the diffuse light from the sky will be illuminating mainly in blue and therefore limiting the use of the reddish tones to the shadows will work quite well. Also I added some highlights to the people, as they should be the main focus of the image, whilst taking some of the detail out of the moon by making it into a stronger light source, and lowering it in the sky.

Adding a few dark clouds gives a similar effect to the cropping.

Hope this is helpful, its not an amazing paintover as I only spent 10 mins on it!

[dogfood]

Hey, Joe!
Yeah, I'm with most everyone else; there are far too many complications for the composition.

My next issue is with the saturation. Even strong moonlight isn't going to give you much in the way of a multi-chromatic vista. The reflection and lighting effects are also missing from the hill and tree.

I do like the aggressiveness you have with your choice of pieces, though. And obviously there are some other cool things happening here (especially with the bricks along the bank).

[Joeslucher]

I'm going to scrap this and start anew. Consider the thread closed. Thank you for the feedback everyone.