Understanding Paint application

[Flatuloso]

Sorry to everyone who hoped this wasn't a question:

I've had a few painting demonstrations given to me in classes, but unfortunately I haven't gotten everything I was hoping I could out of them. Though my skills in drawing and color mixing are not stellar, I understand the concepts and am able to notice marked progression in my work.

One thing I'm still failing to grasp is paint application. This method apparently offers more control over paint consistency and allows for a lot of things thant indirect painting does not. However, most of the demonstrations I have received are examples of studies, or paintings that the instructor obviously has no intention of pursuing beyond the classroom. The instructor lays on gobs of unblended paint, certainly capturing the essence of their subject in the artist's particular style - but I have seen no examples of edge control, blending, or the alteration of paint consistency (essentially these demos are just incredibly accurate block-ins with unthinned paint).

I've been to museums and seen Sargents, Rembrants, Velasquezes, and Hals' in person. I'm familiar with the work of contemporary direct painters. However, I still haven't gotten an understanding of some of the methods used in these paintings, especially in the beginning and middle stages. So... a few questions.

1. These broad, thickly applied black-ins that my teachers use, are they conceivably the beginnings of a smoothed-out, more detailed image?

2. Are tonal transitions in the early part of a piece generally achieved through thickly applied, blended marks; or thinly scumbled areas?

3. Is it really better to work big to small? Often times I find my preliminary marks seemingly too broad, or my alterations beyond these initial guidlines are hampered by their consistency.

4. As a relative beginner, I find myself making corrections. Is there a stage of paint consistency and application where this is easiest?

5. Any general advice? I feel my questions would be easily understood by anyone familiar with direct painting.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still 'feeling it out' - but any input would be greatly appreciated.

[smellykitty]

hola hola! I hope I can help!!

"1. These broad, thickly applied black-ins that my teachers use, are they conceivably the beginnings of a smoothed-out, more detailed image? "

broad can always be refined in the later stages, so yes broad brush strokes can become a detailed painting. but thick creates a texture on the surface that can not magically become smooth

"2. Are tonal transitions in the early part of a piece generally achieved through thickly applied, blended marks; or thinly scumbled areas?"

it has to do more with the different stages of a painting then brushstrokes, though little scrumbly brushstrokes early on are just plain useless

"3. Is it really better to work big to small? Often times I find my preliminary marks seemingly too broad, or my alterations beyond these initial guidlines are hampered by their consistency."

do you mean a small or big canvas size? or do you mean a small or big drawing within the cavas? A lot of young artists start out teeny tiny small and have some strange ideas that they can get all the luxurious details of the old masters...well...the old masters for the most part painted life size!! painting small and having it look good takes a whole different skill, its better to paint bigger figures and bigger things on your canvas to learn quicker and faster. It'll also give you less to worry about and create a more focused painting

"4. As a relative beginner, I find myself making corrections. Is there a stage of paint consistency and application where this is easiest?"

always plan out your composition ahead of time. always understand your lights and darks even before you start painting. almost all the mistakes we make we make, we make them within the first layer of paint - its the beginning of the painting that will dictate whether you will finish in ten, or in sixty hours....... so start your paintings right!

"5. Any general advice? I feel my questions would be easily understood by anyone familiar with direct painting. "

if you want a painting that is smoother in appearance like the old masters its important to generally understand their techniques. ^_~ thats handful to explain, but here are some tips from me!

tip 1: work larger than you have before - chances are *and going by the majority* you are working with subject matters that are too small within your frame. the old masters practiced, practiced, practiced and practiced. want to paint a person? break it down first. first paint the head on a canvas. then paint the hands on another canvas. and on another practice clothing folds and so on - practice painting things until you are more comfortable enough to make something out of it!

tip 2: a lot of young painters think their painting will be better if they add a million details, and they will actually spend 10 hours drawing on their canvas before even painting. its not the end of the world if your initial drawing lacks details! :teeth: you'll learn to render even faster if you tone down the details and keep it simpler but focused. details can always be added later, and if you bother to add them too early on, you might lose them in the layers of paint anyways.......

tip 3: applying the under drawing : there isn't one way to apply the under drawing for detailed painting, there are many ways!! as there are many ways, practice all of them until you find the one that works right for you. here are some different ways to start your under drawing

* grab a brush and go for it!! this is a very loose way of drawing on the canvas. its not about rendering all the details in the beginning, but it is much faster and within minutes you can get the overall composition of your painting. if you mess up, just paint over the drawing and try again!!

* if you have a very complicated drawing that you want to transfer onto the painting, rub some charcoal on the back of your drawing. gently put it on your canvas and retrace your lines. and there you go! transferred drawing.

* you can ofcourse just grab a pencil and start drawing onto your canvas. if you dont want the first layer of paint to smudge with the graphite, lightly paint transparent medium over your pencil drawing.

tip 4 : this isnt really a tip...this is a remainder. you will lose details. you will lose details. only when you are a great painter can you make a complicated drawing without losing them!! keep this in mind when you lay down your initial drawing

tip 5: for any old painting rendering anything, a tree, a person, the sky, you always want an underlayer of paint. this underlayer of paint should cover the entire canvas. in this underlayer of paint you want to establish the over all color scheme and where your lights and darks are. do not use tiny little brush strokes, this under layer of paint will actually take your larger brushes and broader strokes. you can use creamy paint, or you can use washes for this layer, either or works.

tip 6: and for you big question about blending..for blending you need to have at least two colors mixed on your pallette ready to go on the canvas. easy enough. you put them next to eachother and where they blend in the middle you create a third color on your canvas. no big brainer right! well....dont feel bad if you missed out on this one, a lot of us do. a lot painters put the colors on TOP of eachother instead of next to eachother.

what happens if you put your light color paint on top of the midtone paint while the midtone is still wet? your light mushes into it and its no longer light. and what happens when you put your midtone paint on top of the paint rendering your shadows? your midtone becomes too dark and your shadows become too light. this is a common mistake that people make especially with oils! remember that a lot of blending means putting colors NEXT to eachother.

tip 7: for paint consistancy, if you are using oils there are a lot of mediums you can use to thicken or thin out paint, liquin, linseed oil and so on. and you can use the mineral spirits as well. for acrylics ive yet to find any mediums I like...I find water is my best friend instead, and I know that a lot of teachers will say never to use water with acrylics - frankly thats just stupid and makes no sense. acrylic is a water based medium.....

tip 8: its not uncommon to slowly lose your initial drawing to the paint. and depending on how you start the painting, you want to add details eventually right? well to add in more detailed forms and figures in a painting that is already half way done, you cant use a pen and you cant use a pencil. grab a thin brush, and mix up a color of paint that will stand out. for most paintings, a bright pink or blue will do - I wouldnt use black. Carefully draw with your brush those new details.

using this technique you can add in a lot of things you might have left out early on..maybe you left out forground rocks..draw them in with paint! maybe you left out decorative leaves, draw them in first! its important to undersand that its ok to draw on your canvas later on if you feel youve lost your drawing. those lines will easily be covered up as long as they are painted lines

have fun!!!

[k4pka]

I would strongly argue against any drawing on the canvas. Do it with paint instead. That way, you wont be buggering about trying to fill up to your lines. That freedom will result in a far better peice, with better edges.

[MarkHarchar]

There is a book out there by Joseph Sheppard who was my instructor's instructor. In that book, Sheppard gives step by step demonstrations of the most probably methods used by Durer, Hals, Vermeer, Rubens, Rembrandt and Caravaggio. He describes the underpaintings, the materials, the grasailles or direct painting methods and includes shots of each step. The book is invaluable and the portions on Hals and Rubens would benefit you greatly.

[DavePalumbo]

I would strongly argue against any drawing on the canvas. Do it with paint instead. That way, you wont be buggering about trying to fill up to your lines. That freedom will result in a far better peice, with better edges

To each his own. I've had instruction from industry pros on this as contradictory as could possibly be and they all achieved beautiful results. You have to try both and see what suits your own abilities. Personaly, try as I might with droping in big thin fields of tone to work from, I'm never happy with my results. If, on the other hand, I can spend some time working out a tighter drawing (just something good enough to feel confident and not constantly redrawing) I can paint that shit like the wind.

[Elwell]

There is a book out there by Joseph Sheppard who was my instructor's instructor. In that book, Sheppard gives step by step demonstrations of the most probably methods used by Durer, Hals, Vermeer, Rubens, Rembrandt and Caravaggio.
Amazingly enough, all those artists seem to have painted exactly like Joseph Sheppard!
The Sheppard book has lots of useful information, but I wouldn't take it's marketing too seriously.

[Flake]

I would strongly argue against any drawing on the canvas. Do it with paint instead. That way, you wont be buggering about trying to fill up to your lines. That freedom will result in a far better peice, with better edges.

That's entirely your choice but it's worth pointing out that a lot of incredible painters preferred to work over an initial drawing.
Neither approach is right or wrong, use whichever suits you best.

[MarkHarchar]

Amazingly enough, all those artists seem to have painted exactly like Joseph Sheppard!
The Sheppard book has lots of useful information, but I wouldn't take it's marketing too seriously.

Marketing?

I'm not sure what you are referring to exactly, but I do know that there is good information about preparing grounds, producing underpaintings as well as alla prima methods. Each method in that book is independent of one another and seems to be validated by other readings that I have done.

Irregardless, it can be a good place to start.

Not a Sheppard fan Mr. Elwell?

[Elwell]

Marketing?

I'm not sure what you are referring to exactly, but I do know that there is good information about preparing grounds, producing underpaintings as well as alla prima methods. Each method in that book is independent of one another and seems to be validated by other readings that I have done.

Irregardless, it can be a good place to start.

Not a Sheppard fan Mr. Elwell?
It's a very good How to Paint Like Joseph Sheppard book, and there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you understand that going in. There are some things about Sheppard's work I like, and some things I absolutely hate.
And irregardless isn't a word :P.

[k4pka]

That's entirely your choice but it's worth pointing out that a lot of incredible painters preferred to work over an initial drawing.
Neither approach is right or wrong, use whichever suits you best.

As do I, a rough drawing with a brush and paint. Thats only on a tough comp however, normally I just go straight in there.

[arttorney]

If it's oils, and you are going to paint on top of other paint, it helps if you paint on the first "block in" layers very thinly and then use heavier impasto on the later layers. This is just because the amount of paint in the earlier layers is less able to contaminate the heavy brush load of paint you are putting on later. You still need to practice to see what you can get away with because the paint will still mix a little bit on the canvas.