Depression, Bipolar, Art etc.

[Briguy]

So who here suffers from depression, anxiety, bipolar, or any type of neurological disorder?

I've been on antidepressants for quite some time, well since I've been thirteen. Now I'm not going to argue whether or not it "numbs" me in anyway, since well, had I not been on them I probably wouldn't be able to walk out of my room.

It's my first year in college, and I'm pursuing things with an uncertain future. I am currently set on pursuing a BFA, but the choice of school I suppose a pretty bad one.

Anyway, not asking for details or anything, but what fellow artists here are on medication and how do you feel about it? I'm scared either way, petrified of many things most people wouldn't fathom worrying about. Now I've gotten the idea in my head that maybe it's hindering me in some way. But that's irrelevant. This is more a thread or question to find others so I don't feel alone.

[aesir]

on and off depression. I refuse to medicate.

[Noë]

I think there's many people in here who are/ have been depressed, and there will also be people here who take meds for it. I think more than in the "normal world" cos I dunno, I have a feeling a lot of depressed people get into artsy things like writing poems, music and drawing/ painting, to let out a bit of their (sad) emotions.

I've been oficially depressed for a while (not taking meds for it :) I don't believe they help you in the end, I think the only right way to take them is to have therapy too.. In some cases people will have to keep taking meds because of huge panic attacks or other things that you just can't handle, but if it was me I'd want to get of them as soon as possible and get better by thinking the right way).
My "depression" is over now and I had some therapy from a psychotherapist, he helped me a lot.
all I know for sure is that I'm not gonna get depressed again if I can help it. ^^ And why would I really. My life is fine the way it is right now.

love
Marleen

[Jabo]

I'm a neurotic. Can't stand messiness and anything that's not in a 90° angle (you heard right, I'm not joking. I hate it when a magazine lying on a table isn't aligned to the table's borders).

Next thing: I can't stand sleeping. I mean I'm not suffering insomnia or something, I just think sleeping isn't good for me. I see a lot of people sleeping all day, going to bed at 10 pm and still waking up more or less lifeless. I go to bed at 2:30 a.m., read a little, fall asleep at 2:30 and wake up all fresh and sober. I've been doing this for ~ 7 years and I'm still doing fine. You can have a rest when you're dead.

Depressions, no Sir. I'm an enthusiast by nature, although I'm not hugging squirrels or toting one of those maniac LSD-smiles. Depression is for sissies. When you're feeling bad, the best medicine is to curse. Just say fuck, goddamnit, holy shit, repeat 10 times and you'll be fine. I was in a bad mood some years ago when I was in my final years of high-school. I went to an analyst to find out why I had bellyache and we found out after some sessions that I was just completely stressed out and dissatisfied with what life had to give. Some months later, it was all gone (and I quit school, heh).

It's all in the head, y'know?

[Slash]

Jabo, not to sound rude or anything, but i dont think you have a fucking clue what you're talking about. Depression isnt for sissies, and cursing wont make things better. Depression isnt about "being in a bad mood". Read up a little before you make bullshit statements like that.

I dont suffer from depressions or anxiety myself, (i've had my rounds, but nothing cronic.) but i'm very close to someone who does. One thing i've learned is that one of the hardest things is to fall asleep while your mind is racing worrying about completely irrational things. (And i mean irrational.. like hitler travelling forward in time from ww2 and bringing you back with him to put you in a concentration camp..) Working out will make it easier to fall asleep in the evening, and when you fall asleep easier and get a good nights sleep, you will feel better too. Lack of sleep only makes depression/anxiety worse.

[Nathantwist]

I was having a discussion about this with one of my painting professors once, and he said something sort of interesting. Maybe it isn't so much that creative types are more prone to depression, but rather we are very much in a position of expressing our feelings and viewpoints, and so it's more visible.

[Jason Rainville]

Man, neuroticism is so for sissies, can't even stand a diagonal mag :tihi:

And Slash, you're right about working out. At least in my experience, it makes damn near everything better. Which only proves to me more and more that depression is not only a chemical imbalance, but treatable by means other than drugs...

[Jabo]

Stay calm guys.

Depression is a scourge of modern society and it's likely to come over those who are trying to be depressive (like emo computer kids or other weak-minded people), not over those who are mentally able to think positive and are strong enough to get over it.

I've been so down for years, particularly in the pubertal phase of my life, it was a fucking shame. If I could travel in time, I'd kick the kid-me in the nuts and tell him to stop thinking about it and work on life instead of watching it without interest. It would have bewared me of a lot of useless things. Life is too valuable to through it away because of something so silly and childish like a depression. I got over it and I managed it myself. There's no help awaiting you down in a depression. It's all in your hands. Climb up or peg out.

Medicine? All you need is a positive thought. "Not to sound rude or anything"

[squidmonk3j]

wow! tom cruise visits the forums!

[Summer Pudding]

Stay calm guys.
Medicine? All you need is a positive thought. "Not to sound rude or anything"

The brain is an organ like any other. Sometimes it malfunctions, and needs meds. You aren't a scientologist are you? They advocate a similar ill-advised, poe faced stoicism where mental illness is concerned.

No confrontational tone intended by the way, I'm just curious.

Pete

[Lohan]

Jabo you are an idiot. You should really read something before you make rediculous claims like that. My entire family has depression and anxiety, and true, severe depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain (most likely related to seratonin and dopamine receptors), and is NOT something you can control simply with positive willpower, although it does help. Some people have to be on medication their whole life because of this, and would probabaly not appreciate your claims.

Modern society? Depression has been around since Ancient Roman times, and probabaly before that. Look up the writings that Hippocrates and Socrates did on depression (then known as "melancholia"). Furthermore, it has been catalogued throughout all of civilization, including medieval times and the rennaisance, up to now.What you seem to be talking about is just a general bad mood, which everybody gets because life sucks, not severe, life-threatening depression.

Anyway, on the topic, it HAS been proven that artist types (writes, musicians, painters, etc), do have a higher percentage of depression than others.

[Lohan]

The brain is an organ like any other. Sometimes it malfunctions, and needs meds.

Yes, it has been common in our society to regard all mental illnesses as a weakness or fault of the individual afflicted, without realizing that the brain is subject to disorder just like the heart or lungs.

[rorke]

I think people generally stereo type artists to be the manic depressive types. But I think that stems from the fact that a lot of people who pursued the arts started doing it as an outlet for their underlying emotions. I'm not saying all artists are like this...in fact I have one extremely optimistic artist buddie that I want to punch in the head half the time because he is like cheerfulness on crack. But I can see where people get the idea.
Anyways... I think your art work should be your medication man. I mean if you think about it... What we do as a career, therapist force their patients to do in insane asylums so that they can get their emotions out.
Art is my drug of choice.... cause anything that I never got to say...or something that disappoints me in our society.... or something I want to rip apart. I can do it on paper man. I can say the worst things I never got to say to the people that disappointed me most. I can let out my frustration, my pain, my secret love for, my rejection and my all around cheesy emo emotions out with a paint brush and a white slate.
For a few years of my life... I was pretty down and out. Nothing seemed to be going right and when I thought I was taking a step up it seemed like I would always have to take 2 step back and start all over again. I had insomnia, I was losing scary amounts of weight and then gaining twice as much back in a matter of weeks...when I did sleep I had nightmares. Most of the time I would just cry myself to sleep. I was just in a bad place. That's when I started to focus all the messed up stuff in my head into an art journal. I bought one of those huge sized sketch books and every night I would just tare into it. I would start digging up all the shit I couldn't deal with in the day and just gain control of it in my art work. After a while all the massive over powering emotions that where controlling my life ....seemed to be satisfied. After the sketch book was full I would drive out to the lake and make a bond fire and tare every page from the book one by one and throw it into the flame and I would look at each picture and try to feel whether I still felt that way... and if I did I would keep the picture and if I didn't into the fire it would go. It didn't matter if the picture was well done.... infact when they were more detailed the better it felt to let it go. And as time went by less and less pages I would keep... and then less pages were drawn in the sketchbook.... For the last year when my head hits the pillow Im out like a light....I don't have a million thoughts in my head tarring me apart inside. Life is tranquil.
But man you got to find what's right for you, maybe it's writing, maybe its music, maybe its taking a long drive..... and perhaps even medication.
But I don't self med because it numbs my emotions... not just the bad ones but the good ones as well. And when I was down and out and I didn't really have anything ... Emotions where the only things I had left. I wasn't going to let anyone take that away from me even if they were bad emotions... I just learned how to control them and use them to create something beautiful.
You have to make your own choices in life and find what's right for you... all I can tell you is my experiences I can't tell you how to live your life.
What do you need... and can medication give you that?

[Interceptor]

Yes, it has been common in our society to regard all mental illnesses as a weakness or fault of the individual afflicted, without realizing that the brain is subject to disorder just like the heart or lungs.

On the other hand, there are also alot of people really quick to jump the gun and call it a chemical disorder when it's really just a case of the Mondays.

[Jabo]

What a nice audience. No need to insult me, really.

squidmonkey: I knew something like this would come up. I don't belong to a certain church, religion or sect.

Summer Pudding: As I said, nah, not a scientologist or member of any other pseudo-religious group. "Ill-advised" is subjective, I'm writing down my personal experiences.

Lohan, and to make a statement: See, I'm contra-medicine. I'm not medicating, no matter what. It's a last resort. I've probably taken < 10 aspirin in my whole life and I don't feel bad about not having taken more. People tend to over-medicate, and even if not, the effect gets lost quite soon. As Briguy stated, it "numbs" you.

Some people wouldn't feel a worsening if they discontinued medication, but the addiction (mostly mental) would do the trick and make them think it's getting worse.

Interceptor: No kidding, that's what I mean. Then they go to the doctor, he tells them to take 2 reds before lunch and 3 yellows in the evening and from then on they can start pitying themselves.

Oh, and I won't be replying to anyone using such an offensive tone again. You think I'm wrong, tell me. But do it without the insults.

[rorke]

We all have our right to our own opinion... Since this is a very touchy subject... I think we should just let bi-gones be bi-gones and let the matter rest before this thread goes sour. I don't think briguy intended this thread to become some sorta pissing match on who knows best. -_-

[Jabo]

rorke: Yeah, you're right. There's PM-button. Use it if you feel like discussing my opinion.

[squidmonk3j]

actually, jabo, i think you have a point. i just couldn't pass up the opportunity:)

i believe such medication should be an absolute last resort. primarily because i simply don't trust the medical companies / over-worked and jaded doctors. lobotomy was once thought of as a brilliant solution to mental problems. severe electrical shocks also ( still in use, i believe?)

this is a touchy subject for many, though..

[Jabo]

Alright, now we're getting somewhere.

Coming back to the point of using medication or not concerning mental illness: I think a visit to the psychiatrist can help a lot and should be taken into account before medicating or even visiting a doctor. As I said in my first post, I did it and the problem was solved near completely in just half a year. When you go to the doctor and tell him you're chronically depressed, I think most doctors won't send you to the psychiatrist and will instead hand out a prescription. Most of them are overworked, burnt out and underpaid. You will have absolutely no feedback about your mental state, instead you have a packet of pills. I guess we've all been to several doctors in our lives. How many helped you? My last doc was walking in, shaking hands, sat down and from then on he stared onto the monitor, typing in stuff (maybe he was just playing solitaire, who knows) and then he'd give me a prescription and the same advice as every visit. Another doctor (ear specialist) seemed to be immensely drunk, handed me to one of his nurses, made a test and told me it was alright. Still, there was a stinging pain in my inner ear and I couldn't understand what people said.

People hate hospitals for a certain reason. You come in with a flu and come out with a brain tumor.

[poise]

Hi briguy, well everyone who has a bit of Depression. One thing that I have researched and found to work with the depression spell is Vitamin B. I think I get the case of the mondays, like Interceptor so eloquently put it, :). I take Vitamins, mainly a Multivitamin which has Vitamin B6 and Vitamin B12 along with the other letters of the alphabet. Well this is enough to not make those days so intense. But there is a Multiviatim B, the B goes from B1-B12, and they all do something a bit different with your nerves. Also eating certain foods that have that Vitamin can help with your mood. I also agree with Noe trying to take care of it Naturally and with your attitude Maybe better for your body, and your emotions, But different strokes for different folks as the saying goes.
Here is some info on Vitamin B, but I would suggest asking your Doctor about takeing this and what Mg is right for you, If you take to much Mg it can cause a deadening of certain nerves, and feeling of disembodiment, but can be gained back when you stop takeing the vitamin of course.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B

Keeping Healthy and excercising is another thing that can help.:)

[Shamagim]

Alright, now we're getting somewhere.



Because you found someone who agrees with you??

First of all, yes, you do have a point, chemical balance can be altered by action as much as it can be altered by drugs and medication, BUT your point of view is extremely biased and you fail to really understand the problem or even provide accurate information on your argument. Also your points are highly subjective and inappropriate regarding the reason Briguy created this thread.....To which you DO NOT know the situation in full details.

A Chemical disorder is a very common thing, anything from feeling happy, horny or sad is bio-chemical. Even the case of the Mondays


A really big Shut up and draw for you Jabo, let this thread be about what it´s meant to be about and don´t make it "about you".....We had enough with the fish thing.




Briguy: I have a type A stress personality, just high blood pressure. It causes anxiety and impatience...But I find that meditation and relaxing helps a lot, or at least avoid the possibility of having a stroke by the age of 40.

My uncle was a schizophrenic, actually he just stopped being one 6 months ago, just because of a large family campain towards convincing him to take his meds.....Before that he tried everything, from painting his room white, to try figuring out what was going on with him.....But he still though he was being chased by the government.

He begun taking his pills thanks to a very innovative psychiatrists who´s method consisted on spending time with him in a real environment on normal circumstances. In the end he was convinced to take his meds and now he´s able to confront the problems in his life, from a crappy mother to his desperated need for attention....He has a job now after 50 years of unemployment.

He´s happy, you can tell now.

And that about the story I have to relate to your problem, to add to it, my grandmother is bi-polar, she always refused to take any pills or to accept her situation and fucked up her kids for life ,in the case of my mother, she was anorexic by the age of 14 to 16 because of the pressure she caused on her about beauty and her refusal to spend money in professional help for my mother, my other uncle has a really high IQ, but never used it for anything because of his low confidence on himself.

If you need meds, take them...fear to the future is for everyone, not only those with chemical disorders, confront them like anyone else...The meds are giving you that chance ;).

[JAG.]

from my experiences, i think it depends on the severity of the depression, and the medicine. some work better than others.. and sometimes its not so bad you really need medication. i know there are times when you must have it. but aside from that [even though it sounds cliche] is to let in someone to talk to about these things. when you get into panic mode nothing in your head makes sense and all seems hopeless. a voice of calm and reason.. or just a sympathetic reassuring voice could be better than any medication.

i dont suffer from depression, but toe people VERY close to me do.. and believe me those who care about you suffer with you, just in a different way. one of my 'close ones' did go to a psychiatrist and it really helped. they learned ways to control the 'episdoes' by some thinking methods and calming techniques. they was also given a list of things to ask themsleves when they felt depressed. but i attribute their success to their will to be successful. they did not want to become fully dependent on the medication, in hope that SOME day they may fully overcome this situation. and so far it seems to be working. but everyone is different, maybe its not so easy for others.

either way, you're not alone on any of this. and should you need something, just speak up.. we're listening - JAG

[Slash]

What a nice audience. No need to insult me, really.
*snip*
Oh, and I won't be replying to anyone using such an offensive tone again. You think I'm wrong, tell me. But do it without the insults.


Sorry, but you came off as an asshole with your uninformed and condescending statement in your first post. "depression is for sissies". Then you go on to call depression silly and childlike. And then you start bitching about people insulting YOU? Please. I try to stay clear of forum drama, and i try my best not to insult people on the boards. But you sir, are an idiot.

You have a point, sort of, many doctors are very quick to medicate, and dont follow up properly. But that's not the case everywhere. Some doctors are very helpful and skilled. And no matter how you feel about medication, it actually helps many who wouldn't function otherwise. Don't think you know anything about depression because you were a little down during puberty.. Its not the same, not by far. Everyone is emo during puberty.. chemical imbalance and all that.

[sve]

Excuse me, but I want to hear his opinion, could you kindly stop shutting people up whenever you don't like what you hear... maybe just ignoring will help...
I have friends with depression. i want all information I can get... I will decide myself what has sense what does not, I don't want you to make this decision for me, dear Shamagim, what I should listen.

[Noë]

I actually did some research on this for school two weeks ago..
It seems that there is a certian genetic code for depression. It lies in the 5HTT gen which makes sure transmittorfluids are progressed by the brain, so that there won't be too much of that transmittorfluid. Common antidepressants make that 5HTT gen inactive, so there'll be more transmittorfluid in the brains so there probably will be more information transmitted :P So that way people should be able to keep more or less stable.
Now it seems there are two kinds of the 5HTT gen, there's a short one and a longer one. There's been a test in a group of like 800 people, and that test had remarkable results.. Of the people with two short 5HTT genes, approximately 43% developped a depression after a certain amount of stressful periods.. Of the people with one long and one short 5HTT gen, about 17% developped a depression after about the same amounts of stressful periods, and.. Of the group of people with two long 5HTT genes, there were NO more depressions in the group of people with the stressful situations than there were in the group of people who didn't have stressful situations during the test (the test took about 5 years).
So what do we conclude from this? Developing a depression doesn't only have much to do with how much stress you have, or how positive you think... There are many people who are just more accesible for depression.

Ah well that was my saying in this..
I personally believe in most cases of depression, the answer is therapy, only if that doesn't work, or if the problems are too serious, take meds..
But I already said that :P

So Jabo, maybe you're just saying depression is for sissies cos you are lucky with two long 5HTT genes, which are helping you a lot not to develop depressions.. So you just don't understand people who have depressions?

Ofcourse most of this post is speculation, but I think this definetely has a lot of truth in it..

Love
Marleen

[Lohan]

Well I apoligize to Jabo but depression has more or less ruined my family so for somebody to pass it off as a lack of willpower or a character flaw is insulting. Either way I apoligize. Also, those who have been in the throes of a depressive episode and are only alive today because of medication, would probabaly not be very happy with you.

It is important to draw a distinction between a bad mood and Major Depression, the medical term categorized by certain characteristics for at least a 2-week period. I agree with you guys that most people do medicate wayyy too easily in regards to the former type of depression. Life is tough and is not supposed to be without hardships. Our ability to love also comes twofold with our ability to feel grief at the loss of that which we love. I think you need to be medicated when you are experiencing an inproportionate amount of grief an action, or lack of action, however.

[sve]

I'll give my thoughts to the general discussion for what it is worth...
I had a friend long time ago, well it is a long story, he was wrongly accused being in fight protecting another person, meaning he was a good guy, spent few years in jail In Russia...
He told me he had the lowest point when he was led to his room in jail and door was closed after him...
I asked him what did you do? how did you save yourself from desperation... he told me you just need to do something... anything... I asked what can you do without freedom to go outside? he said anything, just to lay down for example.... I translate it as "moving on". always... to say yourself it is not an end of the world... it will pass..., but I know how tough it is to keep moving on, to switch yourself to another thought...
We need to remind ourself though, good things will pass and bad things too... Nothing is permanant...

I'm afraid my talking and all my efforts to push my friend from low point of his life doesn't work... We are in different cities... I can't be near.


Meds...well. my issues with them that nothing is free, you have to pay for the temporary relief. Many of the drugs are brand new and didn't go through at least 40 years of time test... I am aware of possible side effects... you need to weigh the harm and good, if it is worthy.

What helps me... To forget about my own problem and to switch to the other person problem... strangely enough it makes my own problem feel distanced and less severe... Just to remove myself from the center of my thoughts...

Another thought: If after thinking about your own disaster you know that it is nothing you can do about it. you are too far away, or you're just too late, or it is bigger than you... well, then it doesn't matter how worried you are, it is not in your control, you can't help it. Your worries are not any help, they useless. you need to relax... no help from your desperation...

About this phrase, "meds for sissies", it is not true in my opinion, but hear this information.... in hospitals during WWII nurses, doctors have noticed this effect, when a patient was angry at his desease, he made it through... I don't want to argue much, but it is a fact... So if this mantra helps you to make it through... well I will welcome it...

[Jabo]

Ok, one more try:

Well I apoligize to Jabo but depression has more or less ruined my family so for somebody to pass it off as a lack of willpower or a character flaw is insulting. Either way I apoligize.
I think I understand your case and I see that my comment was inappropriate, sorry.

So Jabo, maybe you're just saying depression is for sissies cos you are lucky with two long 5HTT genes, which are helping you a lot not to develop depressions.. So you just don't understand people who have depressions?

Sure, I'm not a specialist, and not a depressive either. I understand that it is a genetic syndrome (which is why people in a family where there has been a case of, say, schizophrenia tend to be schizophrenic aswell). And medication can help, ok. Then again, it's easy to be diagnosed with depression and receive medication where a one-year therapy would help. A friend of mine suffered of attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder. He was on drugs for years since he was a child without a therapy. He was still unconcentrated, hyperactive and short-tempered. Eventually, a therapy without medication helped to solve the problem almost completely. The drugs did nothing, it was like taking placebos.

in hospitals during WWII nurses, doctors have noticed this effect, when patient was angry at his desease, he made it through... I don't want to argue much, but it is a fact... So if this mantra helps you to make it through... well I will welcome it...

The human body (or bodies in general, think of cats) is a self-healing device. That's why meditation works well against headache. Many people have been said having survived cancer and chemo just by willpower. Believe it or not, there's truth in this. There's a defensive system, and the brain controls it. The only thing that you control your brain is by thinking. Positively.

Jabo, let this thread be about what it´s meant to be about and don´t make it "about you".....We had enough with the fish thing.

Sorry, but you came off as an asshole with your uninformed and condescending statement in your first post. "depression is for sissies".

Obviously there IS a connection between this thread and the fish-thread. Maybe I was overhasty stating depression is for sissies. And maybe I was overhasty about telling people not to eat sushi. But there's another connection: None of you has replied to the other (IMO more objective) parts of my posts, like the discussion about medication. I've been trying to explain myself without a reaction. No wonder I feel attacked.

[evildisco]

This looks like the usual dick-measuring contest of who has it worse.

Shut up people...shut up.

[Summer Pudding]

Following on what Prothero wrote about vitamin B, the husband of a friend of my wife suffered periodic bouts of depression, during which he was neither use nor ornament. I can't say for certain that it was 'clinical' depression he was suffering from, but he was clearly in a bad place.

He too had reservations about taking nasty, synthesised Glaxo SmithKline type drugs and turned to St John's Wort instead. While this herb's ancient pedigree is by no means a guarantee that it will work, it could be worth looking into. He insists it worked wonders for him. As well as lifting his depression, his attention span was lengthened considerably, and he felt he could tackle things he had once thought too daunting.

Here's the wiki. I hope it helps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_John's_wort

On a more frivolous note, when I feel everything's hopeless, I remember Roosevelt's address to the American people during the height of the Great Depression (the economic one :) ), where he said, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." Corny? Certainly; but it has a ring of truth to it too doesn't it?

Pete

[Shamagim]

Jabo, When you say that in your own opinion you are being objective that just loses the purpose of objectivity. I understand your adversion towards doctors, but testimonials are considered by all means "subjective".

I'm going to be honest with you and say that your comments just plainly made me angry, people would not say this normally, but the reason is mostly because you failed to be sensitive towards Briguy´s situation.


Like I said, you have a point, So I´ll try to elaborate in how you make a point. Positive thinking, regular exercise and living a healthy life is a good way to be healthy, both physically and mentally in 99.9% of all cases.

The body can balance their bio-chemical status by just living like people are meant to live, with enough room, a feeling of achievement and a balance between work and relaxation.

This is by all means what Doctors say it should be done.

There are things Doctors don´t know yet, that´s true, they really can´t explain everything and there are some that are just incompetent. A very important thing that get´s forgotten in medicine from time to time is to look at every case closely to decide effectively what should be done.


Now, in the case of depression nowadays, specially in the emo kid case, can be also linked to the change of the way people live. In other words they lock themselves in a dark room, sleep in day time, stay up all night and don´t exercise. That would be an explanation...So is really important to give people some credit and no come to think of them as " weak minded". People do as they think is best for them...They can be wrong, just as you or I can.

[Carnifex]

This looks like the usual dick-measuring contest of who has it worse.

Shut up people...shut up.
geez,what use is it to say that? a forum is meant for discussion,there are bad points and good points,but shutting up eiter of them doesn't help here.

[evildisco]

Carni my point being that the latest posts about this theme have been like this "Oh you don't know anything I HAVE IT WORSE THAN YOU!".

[rorke]

Carni my point being that the latest posts about this theme have been like this "Oh you don't know anything I HAVE IT WORSE THAN YOU!".

If you don't want to read about it get out of the thread it only takes a few clicks move that fat little finger.

[evildisco]

How about...

You go draw and stop telling me to move my "fat little finger" to get out of this thread?

That's a dandy idea isn't it?

[rorke]

How about...

You go draw and stop telling me to move my "fat little finger" to get out of this thread?

That's a dandy idea isn't it?
you should put that idea into action yourself...

[s.ketch]

This looks like the usual dick-measuring contest of who has it worse.

Shut up people...shut up.


YES! 'Bout damn time. I dont know how many 'discussions' i've seen where people go on and on about who has the shittier life.

person1: "I have depression"
person2: "Im suicidal"
person1: "I attempted suicide 30 times"
person2: "I actually commited suicide 30 times"

Im not really saying many people are doing on this thread, but I have seen it in others. Before I started chatting online and visiting forums, ive never seen so many people that are proud of being miserable. Im sorry if I seem like an asshole, but its only because I am. Enjoy the fucking life you have, be glad that its not worse cause beleive me, it definately could be.

[evildisco]

What do you know...I do that. Probably more often than you. Notice how 85% of your posts are in the lounge.

[rorke]

What do you know...I do that. Probably more often than you. Notice how 85% of your posts are in the lounge.

pat pat...

[evildisco]

Thank you I deserve it.

[Lohan]

guys have an internet fight!!

[evildisco]

To the death, you forgot that part, it is very important.

[rorke]

To the death, you forgot that part, it is very important.

your such a charmer

[evildisco]

How sweet of you. Thank you again.

[rorke]

your welcome

[Carnifex]

how about you start a thunderdome challenge then instead of silly namecalling (or silly suggestions in this case).
but first,take a deep breath.
now,so far i haven't seen anyone going "my life's more miserable and i'm proud of it".

[Lohan]

my life's more miserable and i'm proud of it

[squidmonk3j]

from wiki:

Benford's law of controversy, as established by science-fiction author Gregory Benford in the 1980 novel Timescape, states:

Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available.

[asoir]

*slaps forehead*

[Poison_art]

I've been in and out of depresstion for years and I refuse to take medication I've watched too many of my friends get addicted to the stuff and tried to seroisely harm themself and others around them when someone has tried to take it from them my best mate is only 20 and she suffers from it really badly and use to self harm herself to get around this when ever we feel she's going down that road we take her and pay for her to get a tattoo done just so she feels some kind of pain in a controled way I think last time we couted her tat's she had 27 so you can imagetion how often we've been really worried about her me myself I draw its a kind of fix it doesnt make it go away but it helps me get how I feel out in the open I find it really differcult to talk about how I feel and whats going on so I draw it then talk about what I've drawn and then slowly address each issus it's a long process but it works for me

[sve]

"Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available."

That's a good thought btw, the same of Goya's 'The sleep of reason produces monsters ".
Knowledge kills many irrational fears. But unfortunately it is hard to make yourself look straight into eyes of reality. But in the end I think it is the only way. Living in delusion is worse, it grows like snow ball, guaranteed disaster in the end.

One more thing, I use from time to time...
When I am in a bad situation and it is hard to make a right decision immediately, I think like Scarlett O'Hara from "Gone with the wind", she said to herself: 'I will think about it tomorrow'. And i do think about it tomorrow, and it is better to do it with time between.

[poise]

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." Corny? Certainly; but it has a ring of truth to it too doesn't it?

Pete

Ah! Pete thanks for that info about St John's Wart. Maybe I will try takeing this vitamin too, I can be a bit lofty with my focus.
And I do think that Quote is very true. Thanks for the 'possitive' feedback on this thread, I appreciate it. :)
And by the way you look very HOT in your Avatar, ;) your wife is lucky.<3

-T

[Slash]

Ok, None of you has replied to the other (IMO more objective) parts of my posts, like the discussion about medication. I've been trying to explain myself without a reaction. No wonder I feel attacked.

Well, if you had read all of the post i made, the one that you quoted, you'll see that i did reply to your view about medication.

Thanks for the info pud, i'll make sure i pass it along.


Evildisco, i love you but please stop being a tardpole.

[Molly]

I suffer from depression. Being fine one week and so utterly down the next. I have already posted in the Girls forum; I got some great advice, support and understanding, something completely and utterly lack in this thread.

There is much narrow-minded self expressed posting in here, it makes me sick.

Theres a few of you who need to understand what it is your talking about before posting ridiculous replies.

It really pisses me off that a sensitive subject like this is discussed in such a manner between members, that the main purpose of the thread has gone out the window.

All of you get a bloody grip. Theres advice in here from a few understanding members, so lets concentrate on THAT.

I'm so glad theres a separate Girls Forum. Because the discussions WE have a far more grown up....

Mollyx>:{

[XXVIII]

Social Anxiety.

[Noë]

I totally agree with you Molly.

love
Marleen

[Jabo]

*breathe in*

Okay. Where to start... Over the course of the day I have been thinking about the issue and have to admit that I made a mistake by replying to this thread overhasty and by acting inappropriately. I've PM'd Briguy about it and apologized to him/her (? Sorry, not sure about the "guy" in the nick). I haven't received an answer yet, but I hope he accepts my apologies.

But I figured out it isn't enough to apologize to him/her for ruining the thread and acting inappropriately. I insulted a lot of people indirectly and want to apologize to them as well.

It's easy to fall in disgrace and hard to make up for it. So one more paragraph, this time it's intended to be "about myself", just to make sure I don't leave a bigger impact than it's good for us all: Actually, I seem to be a friendly person, because no one has so far parted me because I was ignorant or selfish. And I'm usually not an extremist. Some subjects tho make me nervous and I tend to over-react about them. This is one of them (a handful left). So if we should meet some time (Italy, someone?), I hope to be able to talk to you in a normal way and about more enjoyable subjects.

No offense meant.

*breathe out*

[2bad]

Evildisco, i love you but please stop being a tardpole.

*chuckle*

[Elwell]

I can see perfectly.
Therefore, glasses are for sissies.
Just LOOK HARDER, man!

[sve]

He apologised, Elwell...Everyone deserves a second chance.

[Slash]

I can see perfectly.
Therefore, glasses are for sissies.
Just LOOK HARDER, man!


Sorry for not bringing anything constructive to this thread, but this comment gave me OJ in my nose. It reminded me of all photos of me before i got glasses. I was squinting so bad that i looked like an angry bad guy from old kung fu movies.

[Noë]

Ah well if people aren't going to contribute to the actual meaning of the thread then maybe close it?
I think the idea of this was a good one for discussion but some people are just overreacting a bit. (oh and Jabo, thanks for the apologies :teeth: and Elwell, please don't go on about it while Jabo apologised?)

So ehhh I agree with Molly some CA'ers need to be a bit more mature in their posts.

(says the 16 yr old girl)
love
Marleen

[xoet]

like sometimes if I go all out insomniacing I revert to psychosis but usually I just take my meds :-) and am in touch with what others call the real world sometimes I have to take a trazidone(PRN) to help the crashing but just my abilify and wellbutrin and celexa work just fine with my psychosis and or depression and mood swings and schizo-effectiveness I did not realize the DSM-V was out till just recently and have to go over the labels again and such stuff What I dislike about myself as much as I like is the dyslexia it helps with the art but not with the reading and writing but still I guess I manage with the spell checks and such ...

by the way not to promote my group or anything but I made a group a while back that is for the legally insane person called "artistic licence" the is the way I look at my insanity sometime that when I go off it is like I can call my actions "actions of an actor that is trying out new things or creating new stuff"

actually I hear that too much drugging will cause first depression then bipolar then schizophrenia and then things much worse like wet brain and such that the person never leaves the hospitals, I have friends that are at the level I try to help them when I can ...

ok I would edit this for er mmm English grammar and such but wonder mmm just wonder if it really matters if that is necessary because not everyone here speaks the queens English or even Bush English so I just edit for spelling :-)

[NoSeRider]

I've come to the conclusion that a lot of artists have bipolar or borderline personality disorder tendencies. Usually the bipolars abuse the borderlines and the borderlines retaliate on the bipolars.....it's a vicious circle.

Personally, I think a lot of this behavior would be eliminated if people would stop being so menacing to one another and stop thinking with their egos.

Anybody ever listen to Alan Watts or read Ralph Waldo Emerson? Basically, they talk about the rat race and being detached from the ego.

[Cwn Annwn]

This discussion reminds me of an article I read a while ago in New Scientist magazine (laugh away, I know it's "Science Lite" but I had a subscription from my student days....okay?)

The 29th October 2005 issue focuses on creativity.

On page 40 there's an article titled "Looking for Inspiration" that has a look into brain anatomy, mood swings and creativity.

Here's an excerpt (don't blame me for the comma abuse, I'm just quoting. :P):

"But there may be a price to pay for having a creative personality. For centuries a link has been made between creativity and mental illness. Psychiatrist and author Kay Redfield Jamison of John Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland, who has bipolar disorder, found that established artists are sinificantly more likely to have mood disorders. But she also suggests that a change of mood state might be the key to triggering a creative event, rather than the negative mood itself.

Some features of schizophrenia are also thought to be more common in creative types...People with (schizotypic traits) tend to score highly on tests of lateral, divergent and open thinking. But those who score very highly on (trait testing) find this kind of thinking to be very destructive. Intelligence can help channel this thought style into great creativity, but when combined with emotional problems, lateral, divergent or open thinking can lead to mental illness instead."

The article then goes into the brain waves diplayed when people are engaged in a creative act;

"Creativity ... has two stages: inspiration and elaboration, each characterised by very different states of mind. While people were dreaming up their stories...[their] brains were surprisingly quiet. The dominant activity was alpha waves, indicating a very low level of cortical arousal...same sort of activity as in some stages of sleep, dreaming or rest, which could explain why sleep and relaxation can help people be creative.

However, when these quiet-minded people were asked to work on their stories, the alpha wave activity dropped off and the brain became busier, revealing increased cortical arousal, more corralling of activity and more organised thinking. Strikingly, it was the people who showed the biggest difference in brain activity between the inspiration and development stages who produced the most creative storylines."

"...mental illness is not a prerequisite for creativity, but shares some cognitive traits."

The article then examines social and environmental factors in the creative process.

There's also a fascinating article on page 48 on a neurologist who became depressive after givng birth to premature twin boys who died, her depression triggered an altered mind state ten days after the children's death and she could not stop writing. She wrote on toilet paper, on her arms when she couldn't find paper. She ended up having 4 books published. After four months her urge to write disappeared as suddenly as it had come, and only returned sporadically after she delivered twin girls (who were healthy thankfully).

[Carnifex]

Ah well if people aren't going to contribute to the actual meaning of the thread then maybe close it?

i'm sorry,but this sentence always gets my guts when it's about discussion. how the hell should we get back on topic if we close it immediately? (this is not against you,just a general gripe)

now,i can't say anything on medication or really heavy depression,but i seem to get slight depression every other month or something. just feeling like not doing anything except occasional one or two paintings and going out. that's the worst of it: i always spend far too much money on going out with friends and drinking. :( but what to do when you're really bored with life and your future views? (i'm not whining,am i?)

[PMaz]

Im not sure that our problems could even be close to similar but I also had light automutilating and depressing tendencies. What I finally noticed was that some factor triggered my most violent crisis:

1- Lack of sleep... My mind seemed to loose all is composure when I felt sleepy. Try sleeping a bit and try to avoid staying awake long hours past midnight...

2- Lack of sunlight... I also observed that my crisi were a hell of a lot more frequent while facing dark and grey months such as october... Try to get some sunlight and try to drink someting like orange juice. I did helped a lot.

3- Being Alone! Man just find someone anyone and keep talking of all and nothing. It will keep you grounded to reality and will help you fight against depression.

4- ALCOOL IS A DEPRESSOR! DONT TAKE ANY IF POSSIBLE! i got scars to prove how nasty it can be do try to drink while down...

PS: Im not on any meds and never been but I sure think that some action can protect you a little or at least help you fight a little against depression. Hang on tight dude.

PMaz

[drd]

I'm 15. I don't know why most people think that teenagers are emo because of the chemical imbalances thing at this age. Perhaps it happens to some, but for me I just seem to be getting saner and saner.

Anyways, I've also got a query. What is the scoop on the whole 'most artists are depressed more' thing? Is it that when you're depressed you make art, or that you make art so you get depressed?

[NoSeRider]

I haven't met a person yet under the age of 21 that didn't have a personality disorder. If you doubt me, ask yourself this:

1) Have I verbally abused somebody lately?

3) Have I physically hit somebody lately?

4) Have I gotten into a car accident lately?

5) Have I ruined somebody's day and enjoyed it?

6) Do I get off on controlling people?

I haven't met a teenager yet that doesn't do any of that.

As you get older you'll realize people are just an extension of their childhoods. Look at the divorce rate? What so grown up about that? Other then the fact they hate each other?........

[central]

the problem with any discussion is that someone or the other decides that everyone's gotta see things his/her way. I've found that if you try and learn from everyone things go a lot smoother.

back to the topic, well the west and the east have very different views when it comes to almost everything to do with the world around us. I read that while thinkers in the west (especially the greeks from whom most modern 'facts' stem) always felt that the external was a bridge to unravelling the mysteries of live, thereby leadin them to explore physics, chemistry and biology, mystics in the east believed in quite the opposite. they believed that everything is within you, almost like the phrase 'its all in your head', so they delved into meditation and renunciation from the world to find the answers... sooooo its no wonder that there are so many different points of view. medication is a typical western theme while get over it naturally is an eastern one. now i'm not taking sides here, cause this world, as iv experienced it, dosent follow any kind of fixed rules, iv heard of natural miracles and medical ones too (u ppl get me what im saying ? meaning... do u ppl understand?). Try and get a copy of the Tao Of Physics By Fritjof Capra ... kinda bridges the gap between the east and the west.
my biggest worry about any form of medication is that it also leads to dependency and then to addiction (cheers to poisonart) while a natural fix dosent ( IMHO !!! ) .
But then again iv not had to go through what some of you have had to, where people you love are goin through depression. But ya I PERSONALLY have been through some SERIOUS shit and iv come out better atleast (don't know if alright is the word ;) ) so I have to say that the natural way has worked for me. O and medication aside don't do recreational drugs OF ANY SORT if ur goin through depression !!!!! BELIEVE ME it just fks things up even more. You can read it on the net for medical proof if you want. One song that always pulls me up is amazing by aerosmith ... boootiful (beautiful) . enjoy urselves all ...

[Silvertone]

You might want to do a google search for something like, "depression forums".

Find some sites specific to what you are asking about because I'm sure there will be at least hundreds of people with the same thoughts as you, some worse and some not as severe. Read through as many as you can and you'll probably come across some familiar sounding problems. You should also try doing some research on depression, if you haven't already. You're not alone. Here's one to start I just looked up, and hey, what a coincidence, it's called "depressionforums.org"...what are the odds?

http://www.depressionforums.org/

By the way, had a neighbor who was on Zoloft. Said it got rid of the extreme ups and downs but it wasn't a happy medium he found himself at. Said he got completely apathetic about life and was losing interest towards everything. Got off it and seems to prefer life w/o Zoloft. Another friend of mine had success seeing a therapist for once a week sessions. She said it helped her quite a bit. Maybe meds as a last resort I guess.

[Blue]

on and off depression. I refuse to medicate.
Same. Oddly enough though, it is only when i'm happy that i can draw, and only when depressed that i can write. Don't want to lose one or the other so...i accept this chaos.

[fixx]

Jabo: Michael Richards could learn a thing from you.
People do tend to overreact, although I find this an important subject. If you get nervous, try relaxing, and thinking things through ;) Works with most things.

Briguy: maybe you should talk to someone? Like a professional? Sounds like a tv-ad, but you know, speaking to a counselor (a good one!) might help you work through your worries. This is a life long problem, so you'll have to keep at it. And I'm glad someone brought it up. There are people who need help, but most are too worried about looking good to ask for it.

If you are concerned how it will affect your future, or your work, then you could see both a Psychiatrist and a medical doctor, and together they might be able to work with you and help you. You might need cognitive behaviour therapy, or some other medicine, or some such.
Since you are in a college, you could also go to the library and ask if they have any medical journals or books on psychiatry with information on clinical depressions - NOT self-help books! Those are not the same thing.

Good luck either way :)

[Interceptor]

I'm 15. I don't know why most people think that teenagers are emo because of the chemical imbalances thing at this age. Perhaps it happens to some, but for me I just seem to be getting saner and saner.

Anyways, I've also got a query. What is the scoop on the whole 'most artists are depressed more' thing? Is it that when you're depressed you make art, or that you make art so you get depressed?

Not to disrfespect the people who actually do have some type of chemical imbalance, but there are ALOT of teenagers who do this as a fad. It's almost as if things have gotten so easy for kids (in terms of standards of grades / respect for people etc.) that they need to try to create soem ficticious drama for themselves to make thier lives interesting.

[Jabo]

Jabo: Michael Richards could learn a thing from you.
People do tend to overreact, although I find this an important subject. If you get nervous, try relaxing, and thinking things through ;) Works with most things.

Had to google the incident, but yeah, that's what I call overreacting. It's always a matter of what kind of day you've had and how people talk to you.

[Noë]

Have I verbally abused somebody lately?
Ehmm Only my mum in a big fight, called her something like stupid bitch. But I was sorry for that, and we made up..? And it was like a month or two months ago.. Is that 'lately'?
Have I physically hit somebody lately?
nope
Have I gotten into a car accident lately?
nope, don't even have a car.. And what do car accidents have to do with a psychological disorder?? :S
Have I ruined somebody's day and enjoyed it?
no.. :S Maybe my own though
Do I get off on controlling people?
You mean like school teachers and stuff? No usually I think they're allright, and I only go into discussion with them when I think they're wrong, or if they're like "you do this because I tell you to". But I don't think the teachers are like that to me, so I don't need to discuss with them a lot.. Mostly I just agree with them.

So I really answered no to all the questions (except maybe the first), does that make me weird now? I think most teenagers are not as you think they are NoSerider.
(I'm 16)

@ Carnifex; yes I guess that was a stupid thing to say.. What I really meant was "if it's going on like this" :P

love
Marleen

[rorke]

I haven't met a person yet under the age of 21 that didn't have a personality disorder. If you doubt me, ask yourself this:

1) Have I verbally abused somebody lately?

3) Have I physically hit somebody lately?

4) Have I gotten into a car accident lately?

5) Have I ruined somebody's day and enjoyed it?

6) Do I get off on controlling people?

I haven't met a teenager yet that doesn't do any of that.

As you get older you'll realize people are just an extension of their childhoods. Look at the divorce rate? What so grown up about that? Other then the fact they hate each other?........
I used to be an assistant youth pastor... When I was a teenager I was pretty determined that I was going to make the world a better place. Ha ha it was when I grew out of my teens into an "adult" that I did most of the things on that list. I think its different emotional stages that people hit in their lives that they have these symptoms... its not just a certain age group... I think its situation and circumstances.... I think public high school just have more opportunities for kids to feel this way.

[drd]

Noserider, those things don't m,ean someone has a personality disorder, it means they have a personality.

You can't have a personality disorder unless yours is different from the one you usually have, then it's a disorder. But everyone is different, that's like trying to judge music. It's too personal to say it's bad or good.

[NoSeRider]

Noserider, those things don't m,ean someone has a personality disorder, it means they have a personality.


Oh Gawd, people are sick.

[Shamagim]

Not to disrfespect the people who actually do have some type of chemical imbalance, but there are ALOT of teenagers who do this as a fad. It's almost as if things have gotten so easy for kids (in terms of standards of grades / respect for people etc.) that they need to try to create soem ficticious drama for themselves to make thier lives interesting.

You don´t know that for sure...

I welcome you to research, or just ignore it and keep such preconceptions. PMaz´s post is a big hint towards the explanation on why do emo kids are so numerous nowadays...And why it does not seem to be the classic bandwagon effect. ( Not to say you are emo PMaz, just to explain collective depression).

[Interceptor]

No, I don't. Just stating my observations, though. Either way there's a huge increase in depression nowadays, it seems. That or people just are'nt afraid to say it or something.

[maxetormer]

Mmm interesting, Iv been in and out of depression my self, and it ain't
a cool ride, I have no idea if I been on the clinical side of depression,
my instinct tell me that i have been near, but i have never fallen to
total despair, but I can relate to the idea of being close to that,
last week I felt like shit, REALLY shitty, lucky my parents are very
understanding and supportive, so they helped me to over come
the...silliness of my confused and fearfully thinking, I got over it, sorta,
by using my own mind and by talking to other ppl, but in the end we
come to this world alone and we die alone... I and so we need to find
our own mental solutions and ride life to the best of our abilities, I don't
condemn drugs use for clinical depression, its a matter of choice and
circumstances, life is a weird unexpected place, find your own solutions,
give thanks to the gods for the good things you have and live
your life the best you can.

When ever I feel down I think of a series of metaphors and phrases about
the human condition and how others view reality, to me fear its the ultimate
depression trigger, and so I always remember what Peter Pan told Hook
when hes was almost defeated: "To die will be an awfully big adventure"
if you can overcome the mother of all fears, depression flies as fasts
as it arrives, and so fear is the path to the dark side, FEAR NOT!!

God knows I have lots of fears about a gazillion things, but within that
knowledge about my self, I also know that I should NOT!

I also remember something my father has told me many times when I start
giving a depression artsy pansy rant, "don't take life to seriously,
because she still will laugh at you"

another old saying that I like remembering is:
"May I have the strength to accept the things I cant change,
and the wisdom to know which ones I should.

May we all find the answers we crave for, and may we learn to accept
them as well, see ya later and KEEP THAT DRAWING UP! ;) :painting:

This is a song by Alejandro Mayol, I used to listen to it when I was
a child very carefully, because for me it enclosed all the truths of the
world in one simple poem

(sorry for the crude translation)

In the ages of the whys
I asked an old lady
Why do men laugh?
Why does happiness exists?
And the grandmother answered

God formed the face of a human
And brightness and breath gave to him
then he looked himself into a mirror
And then the laugher he invented

Today god tickles us in case we forget
That one day this clay face
Form him the laughter received

One day I meet a mister
That never laughed
And later I understand that
Of business he only understood

Hear with both ears
God its not a bitter
Old unmarried man
God its never bored
He lives on a very good mood

One day I meet a Mister
That never laughed
Later I understood
That he got interned on an
Asylum for the old

The man lied and that day
The pain and the pleasure
Got mixed, and thats why
Joy exists today, tickles
That hurt.

Laugher its like postal stamp
That god at the begging
Glued on us

[seba_boi]

in fact I have one extremely optimistic artist buddie that I want to punch in the head half the time because he is like cheerfulness on crack. Heh... Sounds like me... Don't you think his cheerfulness radiates with the people around him though?... I really think a helpful and postive attitude can help make a person feel better...

[xoet]

Central: I had a copy of the Tao of physics in '83 but it mysteriously disappeared but on the liter side I also had a copy of die-a-net-tics that I refuted in the margin the concepts discussed and that disappeared as well.

Carnifex: I hear people say they are bored all the time. For me there are not enough hours in the day or days in the week or weeks...

...anyway not going to tell you that you should not drink or anything else for me I will have 9 years off crack and the drink and have no plans to change that but still I remember when I did not have enough time to sleep and my chemical imbalance was starting... I think I did too much LSD one night and then a year later wanted to come down and got pumped up with thorazine so go figure...(that might explain my art work) Now it is balanced with the psychotropics and cause of there side effects I get depressed so I take the antidepressants you know I have scars on my wrists and other things but I do survive at a level that I can almost make sense to someone who is "not on meds"

I could go into a song and dance here saying that well I am worse off then you or I am better off then you but really one can look at it like it has been said we take from each other what we need put our touches on it and move on ... I guess that is another paraphrase but anyway that is what i got out of that quote and put a little touch of mine on the quote as well...

We all know that what we like is different from each other and then we leave what we don't like so that is how I do it then I might mix a few things I like together to get something new but anyway ... thanks for reading this and maxetormer I will stop here and read your post one more time before I reply er lie in a reply that is

love peace
Bill

[rorke]

Heh... Sounds like me... Don't you think his cheerfulness radiates with the people around him though?... I really think a helpful and postive attitude can help make a person feel better...

Well I made him my friend didn't I ;P

But when I feed him coke or anything else that contains any type suger..... he starts hopping around my computer while Im working, asking non stop questions... When I said cheerfulness on Crack I ment it.. I had to hog tie him to a chair once because he stood beside me and for 30 min proceeded to poke the side of my head.... saying "poke" and then giggling with glee...and then "poke" and then giggling with glee...>.< SO YES I WANT TO PUNCH HIM IN THE HEAD SOMETIMES! Positive people are great but ....some of them need to be gagged and stuffed into a closet.

[worxe]

Its hard to feel depressed when your around a cheerful crowd.


I also second what slash said earlier, working out deffinently helps you sleep at night.

[Steph Laberis]

I don't have a side of an argument to pick here (which was never the intention of this thread) but I do have 2 cents on the subject, whatever it's worth.

I believe that severe depression is helped the most by a double-pronged attack - cognitive therapy and meds. Let's be clear right now though, my definition is that sadness or grief is NOT the same as depression.

I was hospitalized 5 years ago for clinical depression and went on meds for the first time in my life. It wasn't until I had uncontrollable, obsessive and harmful thought cycles going through my head for a year and a half that I really knew something was unbalanced in my brain. The meds didn't cure it on contact by any means, but gave me just enough clearance to take back my thoughts and start living again. Until that point, I would have been right up there with the "suck it up and think happy thoughts" crowd. When I started to take meds, I was worried that the feelings and experiences that led to my depression would be dismissed or undermined - "Don't feel sad, the happy pill will make it better! NOTHING IS WRONG! Feelings are only chemicals, and chemicals can be balanced! Smile now!" However, I found a good therapist who who helped me with my problems using a cognitive approach, which was very validating to me. I wouldn't reccomend the "meds alone" approach to anyone.

I've experienced the "quick fix perscription" syndrome of some poorly trained psychiatrists and understaffed hospitals. I've felt like a zombie on the wrong meds... but it's not that way across the boards.

I made up my mind when I started the meds that it would be temporary, just enough to get my momentum up again and to stop throwing up every morning from anxiety before leaving the house. And it was temporary for me - it's been 3 years since I've taken meds. For some of my friends, it's not temporary and that's fine. Everyone has their own levels of comfort.

How it affected my art was mostly negative - since being in that state turned 99% of my thoughts suicidal, it sure as hell didn't make fore any creative or groundbreaking works of art. My style became tight and uninspired and I missed a lot of classes at school. I might have benefited from art therapy, but my school didn't offer any classes like that. I did manage to create a couple of very personal pieces once I levelled off on the meds, which built up into more articulate works, but I never had those kind of raw, emotional break-throughs that artists are "supposed" to have while they think about slashing their wrists.

The only way out is through, I guess. And that be my two cents.

And Molly is right in so many ways - it's a shame that it takes a separation of genders to find genuine support on a serious topic like this. I know there have been apologies so I won't beat the dead horse, I just hope a topic like this doesn't spiral into mean nonsense as quickly next time around.

[Snuggles]

Lots of points (good and bad,) made in this thread so far, guess I'd just like to put in my two cents?
The common misconception I seem to see and hear about depression is that it's basically the same as getting up in the morning, spilling your milk, and making the conscious choice to dwell on that and continue to feel bad about it throughout the day. That the whole 'depression is for sissies,' thing stems from just not trying to be happy. I've had to explain it to my girlfriend on a few occassions, so I've gotten pretty used to telling people this:
Depression is what happens when your life is pretty much just fine, and you know this, and you just can't stop feeling horrible. Depression is what happens when you get up in the morning, feeling horrible and pointless, and no matter what face you put on or what you tell yourself, it won't stop coming back. It's what happens when all the world is telling you to get up and move or else, and you're begging from the inside that you'll just do it, and you know completely you should just do it, but you just can't bring yourself to care. The kind of depression and inability that goes away with positive thinking and action alone is a different beast entirely.

I kind of don't get the logic behind some of these claims that the idea of 'faulty brain chemistry' is baseless. It's a common fact that alcohol can change your mood, as well as a range of other drugs. And we all know that sometimes the body has problems producing chemicals. Hormone imbalances, diabetes, all sorts of crap happens. You can't walk up to a sobbing drunk and tell them to just chipper up and drive home, that it's all in their heads. So why's it so outrageous to think that some rogue chemistry can make someone want to cry just as bad as your smashed friend?

Not trying to step on any toes, just saying the general statement I use for these situations.

As far as treatment goes, there are many, maaany things that help with depression that I'd try before seeking meds. There're the obvious, big ones, like seeking out a professional to talk to, just not letting yourself stew in it too much. Exercise can help in a wide variety of ways, from simply improving brain functions to helping you sleep at night. (Not getting enough sleep/rest when you sleep can be a huge contributor to problems like this, and if you tend to wake up feeling like crap no matter -how much- sleep you get, you might have a sleeping disorder or just plain bad sleeping habits.) Forms of expression, as we all should know, are great, and there's always simply things to help you be more aware of how your mind works, like meditation. If you need them, though, meds can be a huge aid when combined with other methods of help.

(Okay, so some of that was just really redundant. Forgive me.)

[seba_boi]

Well I made him my friend didn't I ;P

But when I feed him coke or anything else that contains any type suger..... he starts hopping around my computer while Im working, asking non stop questions... When I said cheerfulness on Crack I ment it.. I had to hog tie him to a chair once because he stood beside me and for 30 min proceeded to poke the side of my head.... saying "poke" and then giggling with glee...and then "poke" and then giggling with glee...>.< SO YES I WANT TO PUNCH HIM IN THE HEAD SOMETIMES! Positive people are great but ....some of them need to be gagged and stuffed into a closet.Actually, you're friend just sounds really hyper... Have you tried sedatives?... :P (BTW, sugar was proven not to cause hyperness as myth provides)

[NoSeRider]

Has anybody really thought about what causes depression?

Personally, I think people are abusive and have a tendency to work on you.
It seems the only way to avoid depression is to do away with feelings of shame and anxiety, and call people on their abusive behavior. Validate yourself.

Most people that seem overpowering and domineering seem to lack the ability to feel shame or anxiety.

It seems to me in order to succeed in life you have to grow a few horns and plow through life like a rhino on a charge.....otherwise, you get in a slump....and get depressed.

[Cookiedough]

There are really several reasons why people get depressed. Mean people are one of them, but not only. I find your way of thinking kinda naieve, Noserider.

[worxe]

Most people that seem overpowering and domineering seem to avoid showing their feelings of shame or anxiety.


fixed.

I have to agree with cookiedough aswell, I dont believe I have to be an asshole the rest of my life just to get somewhere.

[NoSeRider]

http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50442

http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=55358

http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?p=619765#post619765

Oh wait a minute. I was actually chastised for making threads about 'human' conflict. I think about this stuff too.

But Cookiedough is right, I am naive. All the more reason to ask questions.

[Steph Laberis]

Personally, I think people are abusive and have a tendency to work on you.
It seems the only way to avoid depression is to do away with feelings of shame and anxiety, and call people on their abusive behavior. Validate yourself.


I can agree with you partway here, in that validating yourself is important to recover from abuse or depression. But personal validation can be a drug in itself - it can feel so damn good to win an argument or to prove yourself right that it can be taken to extremes and begin to drive away loved ones.

If you are the victim of abuse, be it verbal, physical or sexual, you have to re-educate yourself about your own self-worth on a VERY primal level. You learn to become more assertive and set boundaries, not to become outright aggressive... it's more a degree of personal selfishness that doesn't reach a destructive level in its own right.

[xoet]

I can agree with you partway here, in that validating yourself is important to recover from abuse or depression. But personal validation can be a drug in itself - it can feel so damn good to win an argument or to prove yourself right that it can be taken to extremes and begin to drive away loved ones.

but they(loved ones) are the reason I am depressed because they say that word love then do things out of hate and anger so it gets me depressed what love means to me is not what it means to one of my Loved Ones sooo out of love I take antidepressants and turn what is left of the other cheek ... before which I would of just killed myself, to get me out of their way, and what they want/need to do to live for themselves ahhhh anger but really this is just cyberspace we are all virtual cyberspace cadets in the drama called the concept art forum and threads here and there...

the point is that my friends and I get along but really it is only because I tolerate them and they probably do the same with me... It is just the months when even cleaning the buggers from the nose requires more determination than falling down a flight of stairs with out spilling the drink in ones hand.

True love knows no limits.
Pure thought is known only by the limits it has.

[Layil]

i agree with not taking conventional chemical medications in general, but there are effective natural alternatives that have been tested, some of them for thousands of years.....

heres one thats good for mood disorders, chemical imbalances and general well being:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodiola_Rosea

ive been taking it myself, its good stuff. im prone to depressive episodes (my mother is bi-polar manic depressive) and ive found that taking rhodiola daily evens out my moods, or makes the downs less extreme and shorter. it gives me energy and improves my concentration, and im healing faster and metabolizing things better. granted, im also eating organic and largely raw food, avoiding processed foods and dairy and taking colloidal gold as well, so its more than one thing. riding my bike an hour a day helps too.

i just got sick of feeling sick, ya know? things are soooo much better now.
:)

[Randis]

Depressions and all sorts of disorders are fairly common in the creative field.
I had suffered from some disorder too and was medicated for over a year.

What helps best is sport, fresh air, healthy food and of course sleeping at normal time. Sitting in-front of the computer all day in a poorly ventilated room is like asking for it, in most cases it is more or less self inflicted.
A healthy mind goes hand in hand with a healthy body.

[s.ketch]

This thread reminds me of all the cool people that don't post anymore.

[BirdBirdBirdX3]

http://files.myopera.com/bhtooefr/albums/29110/necropost.jpg

[velderia]

I myself would suggest therapeutic boarding schools. They often employ behavioral therapists around the clock, to help kids learn to deal with issues right away, as problems come up. Kids are able to manage stress by being held immediately accountable to the professionals who are trained and experienced in helping with even the toughest problems.

ROFL.

[amaranthblossom]

I used to hate being bipolar, but five minutes later I loved it :B

[Smashed Skeleton]

Depression is a very misunderstood condition that sure creates some frustrating conversations with people.

I'm 33 now and I've come a very very long way in regards to depression.

I spend many of my younger years in an inky dark pit I couldn't get out of. I think it probly started around age 12 and lasted untill age 22. Nowadays it hits me at Christmas time for a while, but then I come out again. Winter is a hard time.

I totally understand what Briguy says about not being able to come out of his room. Medication helped me in that way too. There IS a place for it, but all too often it's viewed as the only option.
I learned the hard way that my environment (lame suburbs and dysfunctional parents) and my diet (white flour, pasta, packaged food, too much factory meat, not enough veggies) and a serious lack of exercise is exactly what made me depressed. If i'd understood that I could have avoided medication entirely.

This year I gave Vitamine D a try for the winter sunlight issues. It's January and i'm not depressed at all!! This NEVER happens! I recommend. I also take a B multivitamin.

Not being able to come out of my room and do normal shit like get a job, hang with my friends etc, did have one upside. Back in those days I would DRAW DRAW DRAW. That was a major push forward for my skills and interest in art.
So it's not all bad!

[Smashed Skeleton]

i'm sure this will get some reactions:

I've recently seen how deep depression can go, and how families and friends can enable it. We all get used to seeing a person in that state and start assuming that's just the kind of person they are.
Someone close to me recently fell so far into depression that she overdosed on antianxiety medication, the effect of that is to go bat-shit crazy for a few weeks.

The treatment recomended scared me to death. Electroshock Therapy. I was so against it, but you know what? It's friggin' WORKING. She has not been a functioning individual for many many many years, no medication EVER helped. Suddenly she is perky and full of life and doing things again. It's astounding.

It seems few doctors recomend this treatment. Could the reason be there is no money in it for Big Pharma?

[Mr. Visions]

George Pratt offered a great read on the subject of art and depression here for those who'd like to know their not the only one's "going through it". I found it to be quite motivating and uplifting -

http://georgepratt.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/art-and-depression/

Take care everyone and I hope the article is as beneficial to you as it was to me.

[Deepinonespersona]

I have been depress, my grandmother have been in the hospital for a whole month and things are not going my way, but that life.