Shock to the system

[Mr Man]

Ok this is a pretty strange topic and scary. You ever get it when you think about life and it really intimidates you. When ever I think about the subject I always wonder whether id rather live for eternity or just stop..Meh I think Im looking into this too much, I should just live while I still can :)

[Mr Man]

Sorry can someone delete this, Its a pointless topic really.

[Jabo]

Nah, I'd like to discuss this. So... what's your point?

[Justin.]

That's why I have a religion. (not to turn this into anything religious or anything, just saying.)

[EvilCommunist]

I'd be more than happy to live forever, I think. But...since that's not likely, I'll just try and live a long time...
Thing is, I don't think there is any real point to life. Just that because it could happen, it did. But so what? There's plenty to keep yourself occupied with. I think the Greek had the right approach. Excell at what you like and be remembered after you die. That's almost like living for eternity. 8)

[Mr Man]

I dont know why I brought this up really. Because even if you live forever as a soul or whatever your not going to remember whats coming next..If things just stopped that would suck.

[Shamagim]

..... you guys want to live forever??

Think about it, why would you do anything at all if you don´t "need" to do anything...

...If there is no conclusion,then the problem becomes irrelevant.

Things just don´t stop if a conclusion becomes a factor to another problem so it can reach another conclusion and so on.

[EvilCommunist]

I dont know why I brought this up really. Because even if you live forever as a soul or whatever your not going to remember whats coming next..If things just stopped that would suck.

You're worried that life just stops? Well...that just depends on what you decide to believe. I personally believe that once you're dead, that's all, there's nothing. Doesn't bother me though, since I can't remember it being so bad before I was born. :wink:

[entdroid]

I believe that this is all too... that's what makes life worth living! :)

[Prometheus|ANJ]

One might say that once you're dead (or not born), there's no time, no space, no universe, no you. Everyone who dies or are never born are exactly the same, nothing. A nothing doesn't worry.

Although one might also argue that we're nothing now aswell. For example, as far as you are concerned, I'm just a complex adaptive system that happens to be able to press keys... an animated meat-machine that simply obeys the laws of nature. This unit will of course worry about pain and such, but once it's broken it will not, how could it? Being self aware doesn't require a soul, just some sensors, a neural network and an inquiring nature. Naturally such a system will realize it has eyes to see with etc.

Crap, now I'm being as deep as a paper plate left out in the rain.

Anyways, it's the part near the nothingness that worry me, like being old and senile laying in your own feces at some mismanaged elder care home.


Edit: Maybe reading An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding (by David Hume) could be interesting. I never got around to.

[Crash]

This topic has given me anxiety for a good while now and actually stolen some sleep.

Well nobody knows what happens after this circus we tend to call LIFE that the thing that worries me. Humans cant imagine what NOTHING is and we have no idea to handle that idea it self therefore there might be a reason for us not to go on...or something. Maybe we are just meatmachines and think we are self consious when its really all about understanding the nothingness in our lifes. I mean, how can there be nothing. Everywhere we go we are surrounded by either some kind of matter or oxygen,energy. But nothing?

To be honest i rather not be consious when i enter the nothingness, and to be there for an enternity would be hell it self imo.

I have a few friends that are religous and they have strong believs that after all this they will go somewhere, either Hell or heaven but they do sleep at night and they dont wonder like the idiot i am.

So what if theres somewhere after this, what will we do there? live forever? Float around in vacuume and dont have ANY ACCESS TO SKETCHBOOKS OR PAINTING MEDIUMS ....OR...Omg.... COMCEPTART.ORG

[Jabo]

Partial agree with Prom here. The time before death is the one I'm worried about most. Saw the death of my grandmother and wouldn't want to end that way, delirious and literally scared to death. Nah.

But death itself is only something to worry about when you think of the universe as a part of your life, which is the wrong direction. When you end, the universe will spin on. So it's actually NOT over, but you are. A satisfying thought for me.

On the other hand, you're 19. So what's your problem? You'll start life soon, not end it. You will work more than twice the time you have lived already. You will most likely survive hunger, wars and accidents. When the doctor tells you that you're too fat and should really diet, it's time to think about death and "what will come next" (haha, NOTHING!)

BTW: What my biggest fear is that I won't travel space in my whole life. Damn you, Dan Simmons!

[cotron]

Man, I was hoping this a Billy Idol thread....

[Carnifex]

37779
but i admit sometimes i lie awake at night and wonder if that's all there is,and what will happen before i die,and after,and stuff...makes me pretty nervous sometimes,most of all the "immediately before death" phase. but what makes me even more nervous is the thought,that through some stupid chance,i could die earlier than expected and have missed out on some really good stuff i wanted to experience in my life.

[Number_Station]

hello,

"Why should I fear death?
If I am, then death is not.
If Death is, then I am not.
Why should I fear that which cannot exist when I do?
Long time men lay oppressed with slavish fear.
Religious tyranny did domineer.
At length the mighty one of Greece
Began to assent the liberty of man."

-Epicurus (341-270 BCE)

interesting topic.

[rorke]

What about dreams...? What about near death experiences? What about a mother and child bond. ( When the mother knows that there is something wrong even when the child is a million miles away.) What about PreScience and Dayjavu and destiny.
I mean isn't there a reason why this question has been around since the beginning of man himself. "Were do we go when we die?"
Don't you feel it in the pit of you!!! that there is something more. If we are all meat machines what is the point in having to live through all the pain that humans are faced with. If we are all meaningless and our time in this place is meaningless why haven't we just blown ourselves up yet.

If We are all just chemically induced walking meat bags on the face of this earth, why then do we love so fiercely?
Why do shed tears at the swelling of an orchestra?
Why do we create such beauty in the art that we paint?
Why do we do such logically useless things, Like write books or create screen plays. Why? Why would we do these things if our existence is at the level of simple animals.?

Why?
Why out of all the living creatures on this globe are we the only ones that are self aware?
Why do we ask the question in the first place?

[Carnifex]

Why do we ask the question in the first place?
cause that's what makes us human.

[Shamagim]

FAQ ( IMHO)

What about dreams...?
-Dreams are a result fo the brain organizing your memories.

What about near dea th experiences?

-What about them...The light?, the light is nothing but he image they expect to see, buddhist monks who have no relation to the christian belief do not see any light for example, same with the birdview floating body thing.

What about a mother and child bond. ( When the mother knows that there is something wrong even when the child is a million miles away.)

-I´m missin the point, this doesn not concerns" life after death", but survival....in case of this being true, it would mean the same thing that affects most mammal mothers, the natural instict to protect their childs in order to preserve the species.

What about PreScience and Dayjavu and destiny.

- Please, this are all extremely self centered beliefs, Dejavu for example is just a memory recolection flaw, like a replay.

I mean isn't there a reason why this question has been around since the beginning of man himself. "Were do we go when we die?"

- The reason man ask this question is because...like any other animal, he doesn´t want to die and will do whatever is possible to stay alive.

Don't you feel it in the pit of you!!! that there is something more.

- Of cource not, people want it to be more, I find the idea of eternity extremely boring, but that´s just me.

If we are all meat machines what is the point in having to live through all the pain that humans are faced with.

-We are not "meat-machines" and we are alive, the point of having to live is exaclty that, live....There doesn´t need to be another place to go, this place is fine and the fact that we are part of a chain of consecuenses that affect others is enough to make it wort it.

If we are all meaningless and our time in this place is meaningless why haven't we just blown ourselves up yet.

-Again, like any other animal, we don´t want to die, if we trully believe there is another place, a better one, then we blow ourselves up to go there.....so, your logic goes the other way around on this one.

If We are all just chemically induced walking meat bags on the face of this earth, why then do we love so fiercely?

-Why so negative, you would be surprized to know just how complex we are, or how complex walking is....As why we live so fiercely, is because every moment could be our last, if it wasn´t, then there woudn´t be a point, it would be like sitting your ass on a bench waiting for a train.

Why do shed tears at the swelling of an orchestra?

-No everyone does, but the ones who do find themselves remmembering something moving, an orchestra is something very stimulating for the brain to experience.

Why do we create such beauty in the art that we paint?

-Because we observe things that we find beautiful, there is nothing that was ever created that is not either a mixture of reality or reality itself, We create art because we become overwelmed with reality.

Why do we do such logically useless things, Like write books or create screen plays. Why?

-To entertain ourselves, work, any work is quite stressing, we do need a release from time to time, even animals play.

Why would we do these things if our existence is at the level of simple animals.?

-Because we have bigger brains, we do the same things that they do, but in a more complex way.

Why?
Why out of all the living creatures on this globe are we the only ones that are self aware?

-How do you know that we are the only ones that are self aware? That is the one thing that you can only know if you experiece it...In other words, we woudn´t know if we are bears if we weren´t in fact bears.

Why do we ask the question in the first place?

-Because we don´t want to die, just like my cat sleeping beside me.

[yAdam]

Thats pretty much it shamagim.

But, you can't say there isn't anything beyond death. If there is it wouldn't make our existence more significant, it would just be what happens, a part of our evolution. After all, our bodies and minds have had 1 million years (?) to evolve into what we are today, our brains could have evolved some mechanism to cope with death in someway. Like when you are in a coma, or sleeping, you have no perception of time, so you just dream forever, so when you are dead time essentially means nothing, or just stops. errr, I think that makes sense.

[John]

I don't think questions like this require general answers. You've gotta find the answers for yourself, and be able to live with them as well as you possibly can. Literature and philosophy might help you deal with these questions in a more sophisticated way. Or not - depending on your personality. If the answers you get from church, your parents, or school are enough for you to lead a good life then there's nothing wrong with that. Of course these still require a bit of thinking on your own part.
As for me i'm not worried that much about the eternity / death part atm, although i wouldn't mind a few extra years to add to the standard genetic equipment i hope to use up. At the moment i'm rather happy letting the curious part of myself learn, and have a couple of theories i bump around in the back of my mind.

[Prometheus|ANJ]

-We are not "meat-machines" [...]

Dawkins might argue but we indeed are meat-machines that the gene builds to survive. So what to do? Do what a meat machine does. It's not that bad, as long as you stay away from the Spanish inquisition, but I don't expect to see them arou... [JARRING CHORD] *NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!*

[Gloominati]

hehe thats a kinda interesting topic. Especially in the last few weeks I have been asking myself what's going to come when everything is over. And I must admit that it sometimes really creeps the shit outta me to exactly know that one day I'll be dead. Though I know that living forever is senseless as well.

In this point I really agree that religion is a good thing. I don't believe in any religion myself at all, since I believe it's pointless but I do know that dying is so much easier if you believe in any kind of religion. Maybe you live your life with a huge lie but you live a really comfortable one.

[Shamagim]

Dawkins might argue but we indeed are meat-machines that the gene builds to survive. So what to do? Do what a meat machine does. It's not that bad*
Yes, but "meat" is just a piece of muscle, I meant that it was despective to think in such terms ( to ourselves), because we have an amazing bone structure, bacterial colonys, a complex circulatory system, etc, etc...:)

Remmember the beggining the title of my rant: "FAQ (IMHO)" emphasis in the IMHO part.( as in "feel free to correct me if you find more reliable facts")

[Carnifex]

i dunno about you but when i hear that we are meat machines i start to think about sex *perverted*

[0kelvin]

People will believe any idea if it's sufficiently comforting. There's nothing more comforting than immortality.



0kelvin

[rorke]

FAQ ( IMHO)

.

Well you seem to have all the answers good for you. I hope you take great comfort in them.

[Blue]

about eternity? no.

Honestly, all i worry about is if i am even on the right path with the time i've been given. Or if i am not able to succeed at what i set myself out to achieve..

Living forever and non-existance never seem to be an issue for me these days. I think its just because of things happening right now at school. *shrug*

[Shamagim]

Well you seem to have all the answers good for you. I hope you take great comfort in them.

Comfort?...., no that´s not the way it works when you deal with non-absolute and completely debatible answers.

Is more like curiosity. :P

[2100]

What makes you think you were ever alive to begin with? How do you know you even exist? How do you know if something is still there when you close your eyes? How can you be sure it was ever there at all? How do you know any of your senses are for real? Is anything for real? What do you think REAL is? What do you think THINKING is? When you close your eyes at night, how can you be sure you're going to wake up the following morning and not some morning in the distant past or past? Or in the same place, or even at all? If you don't ever wake up but you THINK you're awake, then what's the difference? How the heck are you supposed to know? How the fuck do you presume to KNOW anything at all?

Just forget it man :lineart:

[Carnifex]

the matrix has you

[2100]

http://www.sxc.hu/pic/m/c/cl/clix/477930___blue_pill__.jpg

[Carnifex]

.....

[Farvus]

Sorry to interrupt you but.... maybe let's better think about other important things. Like composition, value, design, rhythm, perspective, proportion... :bashful:

[Gloominati]

Sorry to interrupt you but.... maybe let's better think about other important things. Like composition, value, design, rhythm, perspective, proportion... :bashful:


and this is the point where a random guy comes and spoils such a nice thread with a silly comment. so here we go :


http://www.thecoffeeweb.com/images/poptart-cinnamon.gif




;)

[Mike Frank]

"The mystery of life is an experience to enjoy not a problem to be solved." - not sure who said that but I think its a good one. See the thing is we are immortal, and mortal. People tend to forget, or overlook the fact that we too are a part of this infinite universe. Often times you might feel as if the whole thing is against you, but really you are this universe too. You were a creation of your parents, who were created by yours grandparents.. on and on back to prehistoric man, the ameoba swiming around the ocean, the cooling planet revolving around the sun, the big bang, and who knows what before that. All of this energy has been there the whole time and its just been passed on and shifted around until its shaped itself into your organism. And its still shaping itself all the time, with the constant stream of food and drinks molding itself into your shape.. all the various other environmental factors that affect you. You go hand in hand with the whole thing, without you all of this wouldnt be the way that it is, because you're here, and things are the way they are and can't be some other way. And though you may die as an organism, you will have had an affect on the whole stream of life on and on for eternity. So in that sense you are not mortal.. in a way you are the result of all of this magic that has been happening for eons, and all of the things you do will lead onto its own magic. If you need to see it more directly than have some kids.. where's that gonna end up? who knows?? Thats whats great about life is that you don't know.. it does its own thing and it doesn't need anything or anybody to regulate it.

Oh and Crash - whenever you've run out of things to imagine as being nothing, than maybe you can grasp what nothingness is.

[Mike Frank]

Dance, Monkeys, Dance! (http://iacs5.ucsd.edu/~pbang/dance_monkeys.htm)

[Mungus]

...Bill Brysons' A Short History of Nearly Everything, for an up to date view of our existence according to science.
I've always got time for science trying to explain what, how, where, especially after reading this book which covers the mistakes as well as the successes, and I feel empowered now to read science more objectively too, knowing that the successes and findings now will become the follies of the future.
Science is never content with leaving things be, it returns with more questions. Gets a knock down, comes back asking for more.

And thats why I am deep down intolerant of religion, because it supposes everything for you, sits on it, and then expects you to accept its "findings" forevermore, with penalties for ignoring their findings.

Religion requires you to suppress your natural curiousity and imagination, to narrow your choices, to join the ranks of the blissfully ignorant.
The world is not round or flat. Its twisted.

[Blue]

Not all questions are meant to be answered, some are only meant to be asked.

Who is to say we would even like the answers if we are given them?

[0kelvin]

...Bill Brysons' A Short History of Nearly Everything
Seconded! It gets recommended around here a lot, but it can never be said enough. READ THIS BOOK! It's fascinating, scary, mindblowing and hilarious.



0kelvin

[Mr Man]

People will believe any idea if it's sufficiently comforting. There's nothing more comforting than immortality.



0kelvin

I find it quite the opposite, living forever isnt just a few million years, its forever, never ever stop. Its so huge though its overwhelming.

[Carnifex]

it is kinda comforting to live longer than the average guy,but on the other hand,would you wanna face earth in a few million years? that's almost scarier than the thought of death to me. (f.ex. in dunno what time the sun will consume earth)

[Mr Man]

it is kinda comforting to live longer than the average guy,but on the other hand,would you wanna face earth in a few million years? that's almost scarier than the thought of death to me. (f.ex. in dunno what time the sun will consume earth)

Would be wierd growing seeing your children and your childrens children die, and watching the world slowly decay. Though In a sense it would be a pretty thrilling experience too. However youd become lonley and get bored after time.

Has anyone played soul calibur 3? theres a character on their called zasalemel (however its spelt) He couldnt die. I remember in the final cutscene it showed him in this library with hundreds upon hundreds of books that he wrote. Must be horrible not being able to die. Then again you would be great at trivia games :P

[0kelvin]

By immortality I was referring to the immortal soul. Going to Heaven or being reincarnated or what have you. Few people believe they're not actually going to die, but plenty believe they're immortal.



0kelvin

[Carnifex]

why not get into highlander while we're at it? :D
i'd only be up for living some 100 years if i couldn't be hurt by anybody aswell.

edit: ohhh,well,it couldn't hurt to live as a ghost of sorts on earth,but with some fellow beings.

[Mr Man]

By immortality I was referring to the immortal soul. Going to Heaven or being reincarnated or what have you. Few people believe they're not actually going to die, but plenty believe they're immortal.



0kelvin

Oops sorry I read wrong.