View Full Version : IDW - Activity Discussion
October 14th, 2006, 04:41 AM
This is for general discussion to do with IDW.
Feel free to post your likes, dislikes, starsign, etc.
IDW on Facebook! (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Industrial-Design-of-the-Week/378643722368)
October 14th, 2006, 03:45 PM
As stated in an earlier post, I think Flip is doing a good job at picking subjects that will keep the forum going. In addition, like some of the other popular threads, keeping up the winners gallery is good I think. I know I like to just peruse them all. very inspiring at times, so keeping this one up and intact is important and has been doing well with that to.
I am partial to the machines, gadgets and things Flip has been picking. I think some folks would like to see more difficult situations, but it seems to me when that happens, the thread struggles. so that can be a fine line.
I think the last couple of winners have had outstanding pieces, not only in their designs, but the presentation which has me thinking in a new direction as well. growing, which this site is all about eh?
October 14th, 2006, 08:11 PM
^ agreed, as I mentioned in this weeks topic: an excellent revival (if I remember correctly it was struggling a while ago).
Now, we just need to get more people involved!
November 22nd, 2006, 05:33 AM
I think my only critique so far, are the designs that have to be "stealthy." Many a times if something has to be stealthy, then the design overall isn't as important cause it wont really be seen. Either that or it is something super small.
Would like to get others opinions on this.
December 17th, 2006, 11:33 AM
in stealth apart from components design play a vital part,no one cud imagin a b-2 bomber 10 years bak before it took off..it changed laws of physics in design..so i say design are important in stealth in a very different sense
February 14th, 2007, 02:20 PM
Flip are you ok? I hope you're not hospitalized!
February 14th, 2007, 03:14 PM
Didn't even know this thread existed until dragon posted up. Hah! Anyway, I know it's an old discussion, but about the "stealth" thing...
Just because something is stealthy (with regards to an aircraft or some other vehicle), that doesn't mean it can't be seen, it just means it can't be seen on radar. What it looks like is still important, maybe not from an aesthetic sense, which is why it's "Industrial" design, but from a practical one...
The really cool part of the designing is coming up with an airframe that is best at deflecting or diffusing its radar signature. This can make for some kickass concepting.
Or you could go the Predator route and make it invisible. But that would be boring.
April 24th, 2007, 09:21 AM
The winner's gallery hasn't been updated in 2007 yet.
June 20th, 2007, 04:09 PM
Since I just started to get this thread going again, I think it is good to make some announcements here.
First of all, I posted a new topic:
IDW 0037: Massive Excavator (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100098)
I figured a huge and relatively simple machine would be a good start. It is not my intention to do only big and brutal machines and weapons in the future, just like past IDWs I want to incorporate as many different topics and products within this weekly activity.
I do not intend to run IDW in a whole new way since I'm only doing this until Flip has got time again to take care here. I hope I can keep the IDW quality high and that everyone involved will do so as well :)
Also, since I'm just starting out with moderating this part of the forums, any comment & critiques on what I do or should do are welcome :) .
Last but not least, I'll try to update the IDW winners thread asap.
Edit: I think setting up a poll for the last round is a bit unnecessairy since there are only two entries, instead I'll put both of them in the winners thread under Technological Tyranny I think.
September 18th, 2007, 12:27 PM
Last week I was thinking that maybe IDW should have it's own avatar. C.O.W. has it's..well..cow, CHOW also has it's own avatar and EOW also has one of sorts as a header. I also noticed that we are approaching IDW nr. 50 (still some 5 rounds to go but what the hell), so would it be an idea to combine the 2? Make round 50 about an IDW avatar I can use for IDW and put in the header of each new round?
I have no idea what it should be, maybe a robot or something else mechanical, but any ideas are of course welcome. Let me know what you people think.
September 18th, 2007, 12:37 PM
i think this weeks robot gladiator would have been a good one, or in that sort of direction
December 13th, 2007, 04:22 PM
Bringing it here so that we don't clutter the weekly design thread...
Basically I think keeping the atmosphere a bit looser here than say CHOW is acceptable. I don't think anyone really minds you being soft with the deadlines, especially due to having a busy schedule. At least I don't, I shouldn't speak for others. However the competition here isn't as stiff, we don't have nearly as many entries as CHOW on a weekly basis, and I think the regulars do a good enough job of moderating themselves and others. If an entry slips in a touch late or the deadline is extended, you don't really have a hundred angry artists to content with if you catch my meaning.
Having said that, I think Legato's idea of a countdown clock might be a cool touch. Not as much for keeping the deadline accurate to the second, but more for us to quickly get a feel for how much time we have left. Even if the thread wasn't locked to the minute of that clock, it would serve to push us a bit in our minds with regards to the deadline.
Technically, I don't think we're allowed to embed flash via vB, as cool as that would be, so what would be needed is for Yoitisi or someone else to set up the clock elsewhere and provide a link to it at the top of each weekly thread. I'm perfectly willing to offer my server space up for a countdown page if it's needed, since I have plenty of bandwidth to spare these days. I think I'd need to reset it myself if I do host it, but that's something I'd be willing to do as well.
Think it over and if you'd like me to help in any way let me know. :)
PS: Once Yoit gets our banner done, that'll be a cool addition to the clock as well. ;)
December 13th, 2007, 08:01 PM
hi guys, i just did my super quick undead carriage. Also this week, i took part in the core77 1 hour design challenge. the brief was to design an e-book. fairly open brief. here was my solution. i feel i may be in with a shout at the top 3.
let me know your thoughts
December 15th, 2007, 02:33 PM
Once again, I'll bring a topic here so we don't clutter the poll thread.
I have to be honest though, i never realy know what is being asked here in idw, an actual plan drawing, or an illustration, with scene,?
basically if you want any chance you need an environment of some kind - and a mid tone of grey doesn't cut it ;_;
In IDW, the design itself is the priority. Environments, characters, and creatures all can make great and welcome accents, but they shouldn't be the focus. After all, we have seperate weekly designs for those.
For me it comes down to two things. First off, is my design truly complete? Have I placed as much attention as I can to it and rendered all the little details? If so, and I still have time to spare, then the next question is... Does the design really need an environment? The answer to that often lies with the nature of the object in question. Some things can use an environment more than others. Vehicles for instance thrive a lot more in an environment than say... cellphones. Then again, a cellphone might not need an environment but could possibly benefit from a character. And then there are some things where the design itself really needs no accents. Something like a new type of drill bit or wheel cog would look pretty silly in a fully rendered environment with a character cradling it in his or her palm.
The other factor that plays a part is how strong the theme for the object in question is. If it's something that's meant to be used in multiple situations by multiple people, then rendering it in one given way might lock out some or all of its intended recipients. You have to ask who the object's target audience is... And there we start getting into the advertising mindset. Which in some small way is another one of our roles. The design called for an undead carriage, so you had your target audience pretty much set for you. Any sort of theme you gave to it would have to be undead. In contrast, let's take the sniper rifle. You had the object's intended use determined for you, but your target audience could be anybody. The sniper might be a clean-cut government agent, a stone-cold killer, a guerrilla freedom fighter, and hell why not, an undead zombie with one good eye still left. If you had rendered your rifle in an environment or with a character of one set style then you pretty much eliminated any other users from entering the viewer's mind. Which is a tactic that can be used on purpose if you're looking to brand something to a particular group or theme, but in most cases you'll want to leave it as open to interpretation as possible. Which I think it also one of the areas where Industrial Design and Concept Design part ways a little.
In ID you generally want your product to reach as wide an audience as possible, unless a company has a specific audience they're looking to target (rare) or the design itself mainly appeals to a specific audience (more common). Because the broader the appeal, the bigger the profits. In concept work by contrast, you're usually given very specific parameters towards your design's intended user. If you're working on a magical sword that's meant to be used by the blood-quencher tribe of ogres, then you really don't need to worry about its appeal to elves, gnomes and humans. You can render that sucker in an ogre village, being used by ogres, with other ogres cheering or gasping in awe, and you'd be doing exactly what you should be. Your Art Director isn't going to come to you afterwards and scold you on that the writing on the blade might not be readable by non-ogre users and thus limit the blacksmith's customer base. Unless you have a really anal Director. ;)
So to tie this up, the focus is on the design first no matter what it might be, and if there's available time afterwards, you can sit and consider whether anything more would be appropriate or even detract from the design's appeal. The only possible exception to this would be if the brief specifically called for an environment or character, but in IDW they generally don't. Again, mainly because we have other sections for those areas of focus.
December 15th, 2007, 03:05 PM
Well, Form2function pretty much summed it all up :) Actually, I've always thought that the name of this activity is a bit misleading. Industrial Design is basicly designing products for (mass) production, and involves parameters which you wouldn't encounter in any game or movie for which you'd design the stuff we do in here. Also, to make things even more complicated, sometimes a design needs an environment or character because it's part of the design. Anyhow, the most important part to present is always the design itself. Environment or character shouldn't become the focus point of your image ever here in IDW.
Nutkin: I vagually remember an e-book that you could unroll like a scroll from Philips I believe, which is based on the same idea :P Still, for one hour it's quite neat.
December 15th, 2007, 06:19 PM
hate to be the dissension in this discussion but time and time again, a good compositional render with environment win over pure industrial design. thats not all bad - its really pushing me into presentation, but i wonder if we are talking about two different kinds of industrial design
there is of course the ID used to produce, and market real items, for instance the x4000 m battle wagon by undead industries where you would have a product page and the like, and than lonely concept art, used for the game industry, only seen by the 3d modelers and art director, which is only there to convey a working design that will eventually be seen, used or shot at by the main character.
since its the latter form of concept art i am lusting over getting a job for its what i want these activities to focus me to a sharp edge on, but i still really don't know what will be expected of me - and ultimately need to get better at environments anyway
in my opinion - in regards to the clock and time table - i have the fortune of getting massive amounts of time to do this project, i budget myself time-wise and only have a finite amount of time before i graduate and want to stock my portfolio with as much quality stuff as i can. personally i would really thrive with a deadline that is to the day with a +/- 2-3 hour deadline because for instance on this last topic i had basically 2 days where i was 'done' and really really wanted to keep the wheels spun up so i could hit the ground moving, instead i had to fill my time with other things, while not bad, was kinda irksome in regards to my desired order!
December 15th, 2007, 07:05 PM
Legato: It is, indeed, the 2nd option we're talking about here. However, for a convincing and believable design one often needs knowledge of how things work and how things look, which is basicly part of the first. We are not designing products that actually need to be produced, which makes live a lot easier for concept artists :)
Also, it is true a lot of people here vote for the image they like most, not design as such. I suppose this is natural, but you've got to remember that if your design is worked into a 3d model and used in a game or movie, it can't carry its background and stuff around through the process anyway. That is why I want to push you all to focus on the design first.
As for the deadline, I understand it can be annoying now and again, but I've got a life too :P I'm not sure if the 'clock' idea would work, but I'm thinking of a way to make it more regular.
December 15th, 2007, 08:29 PM
Well, to begin with, I personally see ID as an extension of Concept Design. In concept work you take a piece up to a certain point and then let others worry about the details. In ID, you continue along the product's road all the way to production. They're not really seperate paths to me, one is just a stop along the other's road. At least when it comes to objects, which is what we're studying in IDW. Of course as Concept Designer has to study more than just objects, which is why we have other areas of focus here like environment, character, creature, etc.
However, also keep in mind that presentation, composition, and aspects such as environment and/or characters are all seperate issues.
Presentation has to do with the overall feel of, well.. your presentation. It includes your design, your composition/layout, your text, and everything else that comes with it. Could even include hand-outs that you give out to those you're presenting to. Composition, for me, mainly has to do with the spatial organization of the various elements included in your presentation as well as your design. It defines the focus, and leads the eye along the path you want it to follow. Aspects such as the visual hierarchy of various elements come heavily into play here. And then you have any settings that you integrate your design into, if at all. That's where the environment and so forth come into play.
Traditionally in a presentation you have at least two pages, one that details the technical side of your product and another that's more "situational" and can include placing the product in an environment and so forth. Call it the money shot if you will. That's where you use your rendering cycles for the 3d models, pull out all the stops on your painting technique, and so forth.
In IDW we only get one page to work with, and for me I usually try and combine both aspects into it as best as I can. A money shot alone will leave the viewers wondering how the hell it works or what that little shiny bit on the upper right side of the design is, etc. And a technical page alone will leave them lusting for more razzle dazzle.
I think for our IDW entries, the order of priority should go something like design -> presentation -> environment/characters/creatures. You don't really need to create the Mona Lisa to have a powerful and effective presentation of your design. Even without a detailed render, if you organize the information you have and tie it all together well, you can create a more powerful end image than someone with just say a money shot.
Want to see what I mean? Go check out my entry for the #50 maintenance droid round. I pulled that little guy completely out of my ass since I caught it on the last day. He was overly simplistic and lacked all that wonderful detail that all the other entries had. However, by creating a strong presentation for him (I feel) he was able to stand alongside all the other great entries at least without seeming out of place. He wasn't any great winner, nor did I expect him to, but try and picture how bad he'd look if it was just him on a page. The point is, presentation can make a huge impact on your work, both positive and negative. So for me it's more important that an idea is well presented than well decorated. But the most important part will always be the design itself.
Now as far as what you should be working on towards your future as a concept designer... Pretty much all of it, really. And by that I mean everything, your industrial designs, your environment designs, your character and creature designs, your style and visual language, your composition and presentation, your skill in different software and design techniques... All of it. Concept designers are probably the only design profession that even more broad in the amount of subjects you need to tackle than industrial designers. In ID you need to run both sides of the brain at 100%, but in concept design you need to run the left at 100% and the right at 500%.
So if you feel lacking in a particular area, then by all means try and integrate it into your IDW entries. Or try and focus on it entirely by taking on challenges in that specific area. Though I find it easier to break into a new territory when I combine it with something I already know and love. Sort of like adding sugar to the medicine. ;)
December 15th, 2007, 08:49 PM
form2function: Again, usefull stuff. I think I need to refine my earlier words by saying that while the main focus of an IDW entry has to be on design, the presentation of it helps to sell it of course. However, I consider the optional environment, characters or creatures as a means to present the idea. There are simpler ways to present it, which prevents people from putting to much time in a full background painting and forgetting about their design.
Also, I cannot totally agree when you say that Industrial Design is only an extension of Concept design. Their are similarities but also a lot of differences. For instance, in conceptart you don't have think about production processes at all, while with any Industrial Design it might be highly advisable to do so already in the first stages. There are more issues to deal with like that, and they all influence your design. Since you don't have to do this for concept art, you end up with different approaches I think.
December 15th, 2007, 09:33 PM
There are definitely differences. And I agree to an extent with you. However, to play devil's advocate, I would argue that there are also production issues to at the very least consider if not directly deal with. A concept artist might not need to worry about factory production, but a good one does keep in the back of their head the limitations of the medium that their concept will be carried into. In theory it's nice to think that we can let our imaginations run completely free without any regard to the production. But the designers that do that, at best, see large parts of their work utterly butchered when it reaches the hands of the 3D artists, costume designers, set designers, and so forth. Yes, it's a given that the concept will be distilled into workable application, but keeping some of that in mind while creating your design makes the difference between a smooth production that hits its deadlines and shines in its results and.. well, being cursed by everyone that has to translate your ideas after your create them. ;)
It also depends highly on what you're hired to create. There's a big difference on how repercussion-free you can be when designing the overall stylistic feel of a project and when you designing something like a particular piece of armor or a vehicle. If you're creating a style or visual language, practical reality is largely out the window and that's definitely an area where concept design differs greatly from industrial design. But when you're conceptualizing an object, that object will have to be produced in some fashion. It's not your job to know how to do it, but it is your job to keep in mind that someone else will have to do it. And that becomes even more crucial when you're working in the movie industry, as opposed to the game industry, where often your designs will have to be made into physical props and sets by standard manufacturing processes.
So. Yes, I agree there's a big difference. And my analogy is fairly simplistic and not meant to account for the finer differences. But there are also similarities that often designers just coming into or thinking about coming into the business aren't prepared for and end up learning the hard way. I think it's good to consider that earlier than later.
December 16th, 2007, 02:31 AM
A very interesting discussion you got going there guys, i would say something but i'm obviously out of my depth here, myself coming from a totaly different art background. But thanks for this, i've probably learned more from this one discussion than the whole time(approx 5 months) of following IDW and looking at all the images here on a weekly basis. I dont know if thats a good thing or a bad thing, but anyway cheers guys, much apretiated.;)
December 16th, 2007, 07:43 AM
form2function: You actually managed to change my view on this subject slightly, so thanks for that. You know, I was wanting to put some of the things we mentioned here on the banner or somewhere, but seeing the amount of text we produced (especially you :P) I think it's best if I just redirect anyone with questions about it to this thread.
Grenogs: Any contribution is welcome, espcially since I (and I think form2function as well) am from an Industrial Design background, so hearing it from someone with a different background provides us with a different view. Also, while we discussed the what and why here, the how is still up to you and is best learned from examples and own experience.
December 16th, 2007, 09:15 AM
Yoitisi: Yeah, I'm a long-winded bastard, I know. I kinda like the intro you came up with though, it keeps things light. And it's hard to condense such a broad and complex topic into bullet points. Plus keeping it in the thread keeps the discussion going. And yes, I'm mainly coming into it from an ID background as well (if the name doesn't give it away), so my views are definitely skewed to that. Sort of.
Grenogs (and everyone else): I'll second Yoitisi's request, jump right in. The more varied the views, the better. I don't think any of us currently active in this little section are uber-professional concept designers, so we're all sort of exploring our way into it. The good thing is we all appear to be learning. ;)
January 13th, 2008, 03:53 PM
yoitisi made mention of a couple of things in the thread for the bio-mechanical tattoo gun about boosting what goes on here at IDW, and here is my response to it (which I originally posted in that thread itself, my mistake!):
"Although I haven't taken part in IDW too much lately, I do lurk around and see what's happening and do think it's getting better as far as the entries are concerned. I wonder if there is a simple way to glorify IDW though, because I'm pretty sure everyone does the COWs and CHOWs since they seem more exciting and attention-grabbing. A Spanish High Inquisitor is a pretty rockin' topic, but what would be be without somekind of crucifix or bible? I'm sort of straying from my idea...anyhow, I do think some links to related themes would really help, first thing that comes to mind is this site:
and maybe even www.ryanchurch.com although he's got lots of enviromental stuff too.
Getting even FURTHER off topic, there is a whole lot of stuff that never even touch since this forum is strictly for industiral design, but what if it was expanded to all forms of prop design?"
Expanding more on that thought, the name itself would fit in a little closer to the other forums, POW! Plus, opening it up to completely different topics from week to week might really be interesting....a cluster of mushrooms one week and then a towering observation post the next week... so that's my two cents :)
January 14th, 2008, 01:38 AM
Okay I'm just going to throw some things out there regarding getting more people to come to IDW. I dunno if any of these suggestions will be useful but take of it what you will I guess.
Well, I think first there are some people who are just afraid when it comes to industrial or anything that involves a more technical side to drawing. Haha...I know I am but when it comes down to the designing bit it's quite a blast actually.
I think the main bit is main just advertise IDW more. You can always take some of the recent pieces you thought were pretty exceptional and post them in the finished section just to show more people what we are up to if you can. I notice that Fozzybar, Oregano often or used to make it around to sketch books and people interested in making monsters or characters and leave comments and also sometimes mention the weekly activities to them. It's just a other way of bringing more awareness to the activity. I know it's a little bit of a chore but it might help. There are plenty of people here who I think would be interested in these activities, but just simply aren't too aware of it or bother checking it. Just bring more attention to it really.
In terms of topics choosing, well industrial design can be pretty broad really. I think the main thing you have to ask yourself is why certain topics were more successful then others. Why did the tank topic have the most entries ever in IDW? One reason I think is it is something that a lot of us know. Who doesn't know a tank? Right? That and well...it blows stuff up. In terms of industrial design warfare is a big deal in that category. Theres just soooooo much you can take from there. I'm not saying make it all about weapons but maybe do some research on them more and maybe have a topic each month dealing with designing a weapon...possibly??? Wouldn't it be cool to re-design something like "Thor's Hammer". Er...okay...I'm rambling here, but maybe you might get what I'm saying past the gibberish. Back on topic of the tank, a other thing that helped that topic is really good reference material was posted as well. People were able to get a good idea of possibly approaching the topic. reference material always get the creative juices flowing more. I would encourage people to post reference material and if you could find something for each topic more it might get more people involved. Again, it's more chore work...but it might help. I know I could make it a point to post more stuff like that and anybody else involved in the activities. It probably wouldn't be too hard.
The best thing is to keep the topic always fun and approachable. Observe a lot of work being put into movies and video games now of days too. Look at the work being done in games like Warcraft, Halo, Half-life, Soul Caliber, Starcraft, Gears of War. Were does industrial design fall into those? Think of the topics that could be used from them also.
Ummm...anyway hope that helps. I said my peace and rambled alot:)
January 14th, 2008, 05:13 AM
ScaryPotato: About your first point, I suspect your right that COW and CHOW seem more exciting. Then again, what is a main battle tank less than a high inquisitor? The thing with the topics is, that prop design pretty much is IDW stuff. Any tips for a prop design we don't really handle here yet in your opinion, I'd like to hear them but post them in the suggestion thread so I won't forget them when looking for inspiration :) Not sure if changing the topic radically to the borders of what IDW is would really help though, as it has been done before and people started complaining it was too much EOW.
Trashy: Thanks for the links first of all, I think I should have to find a way to do a little more with those links than just gather them in a thread. Need to spend some time figuring something out there I suppose :) Lately, I started getting more active on the Sketchbook forum (although not making such obvious advertisement for IDW), so I might be able to do some advertisement over there. Then, the warfare side of IDW is very cool and all and I know it is by far the most popular topic around here, but it is not all IDW is about. In my mind, doing too much military topics will probably attract more people but will also dampen the creative spirit around here as most people grab an idea that has already been thought of and make their own design of it. Nothing bad with that, but IDW is also about thinking of a real original solution for a problem. I do, by the way, try to think of examples in movies and games when I come up with topics. The problem with that is the same as with military themes, it doesn't always make people do the most original idea. I think the cutlery topic was a succes, while you probably wouldn't really see that in a game. Anyway, thanks for the input, it gave me some inspiration already.
So, I got some suggestions of my own but I have to think them through a little bit more: First, would it help if I started a mentoring thread? Trashy mentioned that some people might be scared to do industrial stuff and technical drawings (and I suspect he's right in that aspect), and since I teach in daily life anyway I might be able to get some people to step over their fears :) It would also help to give IDW some more advertisement I guess. Second suggestion: more tutorials? I myself am not a big fan of those as they often teach the more advanced stuff first but forget the basics, but again it might help people when trying to do technical stuff.
Anyway, keep the suggestions coming so we can make IDW big :)
January 14th, 2008, 05:42 AM
quick question, and i hate to sound blunt, but do we really want more people to the point where we alter our concepts to taylor to them? people do the popular ones i think because the feel like they are good at them - and i don't know about you guys but i take pride in knowing that i am one of the few that is into this certain niche of concept art. now when i post stuff to my DA gallery i'll always explain the the IDW group and link to the thread, but im willing to bet that anybody who participates in any one of the activities knows that we are here.
i really enjoy the mixed bag of art, even though some of it isn't as fun as the rest, im using this as one of my primary exercises to get good enough to do this for a living. and its been said to death, but the fact of the matter is one day you will be creating a main battle tank and the next day you are making a crate... you gotta do it all!
in regards to tough critique/mentorship, i can't speak for form2function but he has been a vital instrument in my development as of late, and thats just on AIM. and while our core group fluctuates (heck i've only been doing this for a few months with any sort of consistency) i still think in terms of critique we need to be significantly harder on ourselves. there have already been some tussles about constructive critique, and unless we can let go of our art, nothing much will come of it... steering your talent in regards to the yes and no of a vote isn't going to get you anywhere, you gotta get into the meat of it in the comments.
in regards to tutorials some of the best things i have ever learned have come about recently from iain mccaig dvds, and an entire year of my life was spent using painter because of a ryan church tutorial, so i personally find screen cap stuff very valuable, but that being said, my fundamentals are crippled retard babies and nothing but going back and buffing out that unrefined core is going to change that.
last note, theres a wip thread in the main forums, but it might be nice to get something more industrially focused... like a wip group, or forum that only focuses on industrial design - not rendering etc... that can be very subjective but like fantasy art that involves alien anatomy there still is a wrong even if there isn't a right
January 14th, 2008, 02:27 PM
Haha...no prob with the links...I know I sorta piled them on though..
Oh about the warfare stuff, topics. Ignore that, no it is very important to keep the topics different for everyone, I sentenced that wrong. That was just a tangent. Me typing without really thinking :D
It's true, you can't just be doing tanks, battle droids and all that stuff all the time. Industrial design has a massive range of topics and it's so broad. It does boil down to real simple crates as Legato mentioned sometimes. Heck, did you see the phone link...practically insane!!! The main thing is just keeping it fun and interesting. There is plenty you can do with a crate. Just make it fun, it could be a specialized crate that holds top secret weapons(argh, stop using weapons!), or killer Pokemon critters...to just shoes for that matter. Just leave it really open to the imagination. I think that's why the cutlery worked because it did leave a lot of it to your imagination. You could pretty much go anywhere with it and it's such a common household item too. We use it day in and day out.
In regards to critiques, very important. The critique's given in the tank topic were the best I'd ever seen. I would go as far to say they were even better then the one's on any other activities I've seen also. So yeah, having nice critique sessions like the one's during the poll are important. I understand what your saying Legato in terms of getting into the meat of our comments and ourselves. We do have to look at what we do with a objective eye.
Tutorials are a crop shoot with many. Plenty can get a lot out of them but mostly if you want to improve you gotta do it yourself and practice tons. I say that if somebody made a piece they really liked in one of the topics and saved the steps and wanted to put it in the tutorials section, go for it! I don't think it's absolutely required for us or you to post lots of tutorials on how to do this or that. If people who participated wanted to make tutorials on how they did their piece, hey thats great...but that option is up to them.
Er...I rambled again. Okay, I need to draw more :scribble:
Oh about the mentoring bit, it's a nice idea but I'm worried that maybe it would be too much also. What I mean by that is you don't want to over-extend yourself as it already is if your real busy...however if you do think you have the time it's up to you.
The main thing is keeping IDW running smoothly. I imagine it would take some time to do something like that maybe. Although I do like the idea of it what Legato is thinking. Having some kind of forum focusing more on industrial design, robotics, tools, weapons...etc. Things like reference material could be posted there as well. It's still a decent amount of work but it could help a lot. would be a great plug for IDW as well :teeth:
January 14th, 2008, 04:53 PM
Legato: I agree, I've seen a lot of good critiques here in IDW which I'm really pleased with. However, my logic behind the idea of making IDW more popular was that the bigger the competion, the more it motivates people to do their very best. Getting a couple of pro's in here to set an example would really motivate everyone I think. Not to play down anything that gets to poll, but the quality simply isn't always the best in every round at the moment. I prefer a fully rendered and painted piece above WIP's and half finished works to be honest, and seeing what happens in COW, EOW and CHOW I think IDW sometimes lacks this a bit.
Trashy: No problem, any thoughts are better than none :) You're spot on with your crate-example, I might even make a topic out of it...the problem with those tutorials is that in my opinion, too many entries at the moment are barely past the halfway finished milestone to do this effectively (Come to think of it, did you save the process on your cutlery? :P)
I've got a couple of announcements actually:
First, I decided to start mentoring after all :) Although I'll be busy the coming two weeks, I still have enough downtime in between projects to set something up I think. If not, I will after those two weeks. So, if you are interested, check here: Mentor sign-up thread page 16 (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1605926)
Second, I think the idea of making a thread with inspiration, discussion about design in general and all that kind of stuff is great. I might change the 'link' thread somewhat to allow for this to happen.
Last but not least, I'm currently trying to get a winner icon off the ground (yes, at long last). The first ideas sound promising, but we're far from anything finished so I won't promise anything. However, I need someone to make us an icon like the COW icon (and recently the CHOW icon as well). I've not yet any idea what it should look like (the sprocket is already an icon so is not really suitable I guess). If you are willing to create and icon or know someone who can, please let me know.
Edit: Just for clarity, I didn't just started mentoring to attract more people for IDW. It was mainly inspired by the fact that I get mentored by Jens on landscapes and color studies, so I figured I should return the favour. Then again, I hope the result of me mentoring is that we can raise the quality in here so people will get even more inspired. This is in the end I think the main aspect that will get more people in here, if we start making top notch renderings that blow peoples mind :)
January 16th, 2008, 04:54 PM
yoitisi-Haha, I think the crate idea would make a great topic. Nah, really didn't save too many steps with the cutlery :dur:
Hope things go well with the mentoring. That class filled up super fast! I'll likely do some of the assignments also in my spare time. Gotta work on my perspective.
January 16th, 2008, 05:59 PM
Sorry for not jumping in here sooner, I took a couple days off to deal with a few things.
On Participation: I think the ideas presented so far are all good tactics. Getting the challenges out there each week always helps, as does promoting a general awareness that we're here. I've done what I can to do my part, but like myself a lot of the core group right now tends to mostly reside in this section of the forums. Those who do travel around should definitely spread the word as best they can. The mentoring thread should also generate some visibility. The trick really is to get one or two heavy hitters involved on a regular basis. People often flock to where the talent is. Another idea to throw out there would be every so often to have a week where we tie into the CHOW topic. For example with the current one, some sort of religious object would be appropriate. Then those working on their CHOW entries could think about the IDW one in parallel and see if they want to work on both entries since they're in the same line of thought. I say CHOW because it's the most relevant to ID, whereas objects for creatures or environments would be harder to fit in closely. A character always has accessories though. Just one idea.
On References: I'm actually of a different mindset than most on this one. I feel slamming too many references of other people's work can often influence one's design more than it should. There's a fine balance somewhere in there that should be held. Additionally, I think it goes against the spirit of what we do here. One of the core ideas behind following weekly briefs is to emulate a working environment, where you're given a topic and you have to deliver. Collecting references is a big part of what a designer has to do when working on a project, and I think it's important that each one goes through that on their own as opposed to being handed everything on a silver platter. A few references for inspiration are fine as part of the brief and often are present at work as well. But I've seen some rounds that were utterly swamped with reference material. Call me a strict and mean bastard, but pushing ourselves is what we're about and I feel that's part of the process. Now a separate thread where we might share inspiration that's unrelated to a topic is a whole different matter, and would likely help many. But that should serve as general inspiration. If we're doing tanks, that thread shouldn't be flooded with tank images for the week (and why the hell are we all using tanks as an example, heh).
On Critiques: As any regular participant as of late knows, I'm big on them. For me it's as important as the creation of an entry, because one often learns as much from both. I've said this before, but I think crit for those who participate in a round should be mandatory. If you spent a week working on and submitting an entry, you should be able to find a few minutes to offer in-depth critique for everyone else. Especially since you'll be receiving critique on your own entry from others. For those that didn't participate it should obviously be optional and welcome, but for participants it should be at least an unwritten rule.
All for now as I have to get back to work. ;)
PS: Yoitisi, I'm all over the icon situation and I'll shoot some ideas to you soon. I actually started working on this a while back after talking with Oregano about their icon plans for CHOW, which he told me he'd touch base with you about. I'm guessing he recently did and that's why you brought it up.
January 17th, 2008, 10:41 AM
Thanks for the input form2function :)
I was thinking about suggesting a collaboration with all the activities but I have not yet done so because first COW 100 was going on, then CHOW 100 and now POW just started, so I'll leave that for now.
The reference thread I had in mind would focus more on modern art, different real life Industrial Designers and their work, some design history etc. There's a lot to learn from what happens outside CA and outside the profession of concept artist that can be implemented in here. The shape of a simple well designed chair can inspire you to use it for your tank design (there you go, tanks again :D). I don't think having a lot of specific reference in there is very useful. Some military themes and stuff is fine, but since I try to make the topics as diverse as I can I want the thread to be more of a general inspiration ground with different styles and design philosphies. I'll have more time to fix this in two weeks time as most of my deadlines are done by then, but after that I'll see what I can do.
Making the providing of critiques and comments mandatory is something I will not do ever. This community is all about sharing etc. but it has to come from the participants themselves. I cannot force people to critique nor can I force them to participate in the first place. Even if, I think a forced post of critique will never be whole heartedly done and thus less usefull. I do encourage people to critique though, because as form2function already said, you can learn from giving critique as much from recieving it.
February 17th, 2008, 04:27 PM
Drats. I had an entry for the Harvester Challenge that I didn't finish in time for voting. I've never really tried my hand at Industrial Design before, so there was some trial and error involved.
Is there an appropriate place to show it anyways? I'm going to finish it up even though it can't get in the voting, and I'd still love to hear some feedback.
February 17th, 2008, 04:44 PM
The Dweller: You can put it up in the voting thread, although it won't show up in the poll you can at least get some comments on it :)
February 17th, 2008, 04:47 PM
Thanks, I'll do that.
February 17th, 2008, 05:56 PM
The voting thread seems to be closed.
February 17th, 2008, 06:16 PM
The Dweller: Oops you're right. Fixed it :P
March 12th, 2008, 02:37 PM
yoitisi - I think the direction of utilizing a hanful of pictures and working from that for the star fighter was a great idea. I dont think we use that kind of inspiration enough. Wish I could be involved more, just can not right now. the star fighter threads and I am sure the ongoing carrier thread will be as good. doing a great job with this forum.
March 12th, 2008, 03:12 PM
Dragonspit: Thanks for the kind words :) hope to see you around in future IDW's then.
May 3rd, 2008, 10:57 AM
Heya Yoitisi - in terms of the rendering style for the IDW challenges, is stylized/cartoony ok? I understand the point of completely functional industrial design is to be as realistic as possible, but I think stylized rendering would lend itself really well to some of the topics I've seen (not a crit).
May 3rd, 2008, 11:01 AM
Ye oldskool: The only problem I have with stylised/cartoony is that it can easily be used to hide flaws in the design and/or functioning of the machine. Also, don't use it as an excuse to deliver 5 minutes work. Apart from that, do as you see fit :)
July 8th, 2008, 05:23 PM
Any idea when we can expect a new topic guys?
I never really got into the 'Deep' uber-topic so its seemed to drag on forever. With the poll about to close can we look forwards to some new briefs? Forum is looking kinda sad and empty at the moment
July 8th, 2008, 06:13 PM
Maieth: New round is up: IDW #71: Demolition Derby Car (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=130662)
July 9th, 2008, 06:19 AM
Just been reading through the (half a year old) discussion, I hope nobody minds me reviving this discussion.
I was interested by the comparisons to the other activities, like a CHOW topic of "Spanish High Inquisitor" compared to an IDW topic "Spanish High Inquisitor's Crucifix (or Bible)", or "Thor's Hammer" as opposed to "Thor". This reminded me of some article about games for girls, where they criticised the idea that boys can single-handedly save the universe, while girls are only allowed to become prom queens. Who wants to design Thor's hammer when they can design Thor (complete with hammer)? That's why tanks and spaceships do well - they're big, they're grand, and everyone notices them.
I don't know if it's inevitable that IDW remain an insular group, the technical aspect probably scares off a lot of people. It takes someone a bit different to look at a Stormtrooper and talk about flexible joints, air filters, poor visibility and utility belts. Most people would prefer talking about them serving the Empire, being clones and dying out in the last ice age.
Anyway, maybe I should see about entering a few of these again, that's a surer way of adding participants.
July 19th, 2008, 03:38 PM
Flip: Sorry for seeing this so late :\ Some valid points there. I'll try to think of it when coming up with topics. Hope to see you in future rounds :)
September 4th, 2008, 12:54 AM
Hello, I've been wondering if You or anyone could or would please recommend some books that I could search in the library for related to Indrustrial Design or in some way may help? A full name of the author and the title if possible, Thankyou.
September 11th, 2008, 05:25 AM
hey mr.s 14. theres a fair few books i can recommend to you, they are mostly about design sketching and rendering. we had to get these for uni ...
1. Design Sketching by Erik Olofsson/Klara Sjolen
2.Sketching, drawing techniques for product designers by Koos Eissen/Roselien Steur
3.Design Rendering Techniques: A Guide to Drawing and Presenting Design Ideas by dick powell
hope that helped mate
September 15th, 2008, 02:38 AM
Thankyou Pulse, I will look into those books. I appreciate it.
September 21st, 2008, 08:42 PM
you should link the voting thread to the winners so that we can see all the entries, like in COW
September 22nd, 2008, 04:58 PM
Darthnader: I think you already mentioned that somewhere. I am planning to, and maybe I'll refurbish the winners thread a bit while I'm at it. Doing that for more than 70 rounds will take a while though, and I need to find the time for it first.
September 22nd, 2008, 10:36 PM
oooh maybe you can find a visiting angel to do it for you!
*bows to bartdeco*
September 23rd, 2008, 12:15 AM
oooh maybe you can find a visiting angel to do it for you!
*bows to bartdeco*
Ohhhh. You are such a shit! :P
Darthnader: I think you already mentioned that somewhere. I am planning to, and maybe I'll refurbish the winners thread a bit while I'm at it. Doing that for more than 70 rounds will take a while though, and I need to find the time for it first.
OK, yoitisi, would you be interested in having 'someone' help you out here?
Will you be creating a presentation template (like EOW or COW) or does someone need to do that, too.
Might take more time than EOW did, though.
Let me know,
bart (the abused)
September 23rd, 2008, 01:45 AM
bart (the abused)
Hehehe poor Bart ;)
I'll have to look into it to see how much work it is, but I think I can manage it. I was indeed planning on giving it a template and all that. Anyway, I'll let you know if I need help. Thanks for the offer :)
September 23rd, 2008, 10:34 PM
oooh maybe you can find a visiting angel to do it for you!
*bows to bartdeco*
OK, after further review, I take this back:
Ohhhh. You are such a shit! :P
I thought at first you were pointing yoitisi in my direction (which I don't mind) to have me do it. I thought you saw me browsing the thread, because your message showed up just after I wandered in.
Instead, I now understand you were thanking me. :dur: (I can be such a dork)
Thanks for the bow,
bart (the not so abused)
September 23rd, 2008, 11:50 PM
well..I am kind of a shit.. but only because I was rubbing yoit's face in it a little. doing a little superior dance, because mine is all updated. due entirely to you, i might add.
of course I am abusing your good nature. but you gotta know I appreciate it.
and there is NO assumption that you will continue. although yikes it is sure a relief. and NO assumption the you will do the same for my friend yoitisi , here. BUT totally ..thank you for what you have done.
April 4th, 2009, 06:17 PM
As some of you might've noticed, IDW now has its own winners icons :) I'm in the process of getting up to date with adding them at the moment - everyone who won more than 2 rounds already got them- but should be done with that soon-ish.
If there are any problems with yours, or if you'd rather not have them (for any obscure reason..) just let me know.
April 6th, 2009, 11:42 AM
Nice work Yoitisi, glad to see the icons were finally added (and my apologies for disappearing on you in that regard).
I've followed the progress of our little ID corner from a distance, as time permits, and I have to say I've been seriously impressed with the growing level of talent that's been thrown into many of the past rounds.
I'm looking forward to jumping in again in the future once my life settles a bit (moved to Europe, new job, new life, etc). Until then, my hat's off to the artists that continue to participate and develop themselves through the IDW's and more so to you Yoit for putting up with us. ;)
April 6th, 2009, 02:53 PM
Hey form2function, cool to have you in here again :) I wondered what'd happened with you but good to see you're still still around. Hang tight for round 100 I'd say!
August 11th, 2009, 10:22 PM
Question about IDW in general: Are we allowed to use AutoCAD for 2D orthographics? It's one of my favorite graphics programs, and seems suited to the purpose.
August 13th, 2009, 10:09 PM
I have a quick question.
If we post our WIPs in the appropriate ID thread, is it ok to cross-post them to the general forums' WIP thread as well?
December 26th, 2009, 04:10 AM
i know the idw has always oscillated between a barren wasteland and a semi bustling mecca (mecha lul) but i am in a place in my life where i need it, and will sacrifice much to make time for it. i hope it makes it to the new year!
January 22nd, 2010, 07:19 PM
Perhaps this question has already been asked elsewhere... but will IDW come back? I miss it! Yoitisi?
fughi from yuggoth
January 23rd, 2010, 09:27 AM
I support that.Please bring it back!
January 24th, 2010, 03:25 PM
Yeah, me too!
One of my NY's resolutions is to participate in more challenges this year... especially IDW, so please bring it back :)
January 25th, 2010, 02:22 PM
You never know how much you liked the cow until it leaft the barn.
If you return I'll work a lot harder than that only time I did participate.
But will we ever know?
January 26th, 2010, 11:07 PM
BRING IT BACK! i want to try and get back into drawing, and IDW is the ticket.
January 27th, 2010, 12:22 AM
What if we start competing right here? :) I had the itch to draw something ID related...
January 27th, 2010, 09:09 AM
I just started hangin here at conceptart.org and didnt find IDW in time to compete, would really like to try it out tho.
January 27th, 2010, 09:49 AM
Just wanted to chime in support for IDW. I'm in school right now for ID and would love to participate.
January 31st, 2010, 04:02 PM
Hey everyone, sorry for not being around for a while and thanks so much for the support! I should be back now, and hopefully IDW will be back on track now. I'll make the poll for last round and post up the new round soon.
March 25th, 2010, 05:32 PM
Thanks for the star, yoitisi!!
I have been busy with other things so long, but I will spend more time here, even if it's just with voting and commenting! :)
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