romeo and juliet Barbies

[liankathleen]

These are Barbie's I modified into Romeo and Juliet for an english presentation. There's also a cheesecloth death shroud.

.Sorry these pictures aren't here anymore, i took them down because I've run out of bandwidth for the month.

Materials: Made of an old shoe box, a huge peice of lace I found, two barbies a cousin gave me, a chunk of white material I found cheesecloth putty, masking tape, more white lace, acrylic paint, black and red ink, an orange tree thorn, and old barbie dress, a chunk of black fabric.

The point: An english presentation: A box with four things in it that represent your final essay arguement. he assigned book was Romeo and Juliet, and my thesis was that the lovers subconciously arranged their own deaths, in order to complete the ideal that in order to be immortalized, some (love, in this case) must die in it's prime.

This particular part of it are the lovers smiling, becaue they've succeeded in their goal. It's also oddly ironic - shakespearean plays were put on with an all-male cast, and this one is played the the epitomy of femininity.

[stutte]

:confused: i dont get it.

[mcotie]

wtf?

[liankathleen]

Um, I don't get why people dn't "get it", so I don't know how to explain it. They're for an english assignment of Romeo and Juliet. They're not drawings, they're actual barbies I screwed around with in an attmept to make look like Romeo and Juliet. They're one of four things that are supposed ot be in a box to present, but they didn't fit inside the box, so they're going on top. It's from the final scene of the Shakespearean Tragedy Romeo anf Juliet, where the lovers kill themselves?

[stutte]

you DO know that at the end of romeo and juliet, neither of them are happy....romeo comes to juliet thinking she's dead(when infact shes not) and commits suicide. juliet wakes from her drug induced sleep and sees romeo dead and then takes her own life....neither of them would be smiling.

[jmascho]

They probably looked more like this:
http://www.jolenestrailerpark.com/family/family2/1.jpg

[mtomczek]

I dont get it either, what does this have to do with concept art???!?

[SploogTheTerrible]

Seriously disturbing

[I.was.ink]

This thread seems way out of context, and should be deleted. Davi?

I'd do it, but my mod abilities aren't as high ranked as d's! :rolleyes:

[Erik]

O_o .... Art alert! Art alert!

(runs around in circles)

[ChadTHX1138]

:D Freak...

[davi]

Personally i can't judge if this is good art or not but... i really don't think it fits on this forum... this forum is usually filled with conceptual designsers and illustraters envolved or wishing to be envolved in the game/movie scene.

This time of art is... no doubt art... i just don't think it fits with in our community

[mearrin69]

Art or not it's *freakin* me out.

[Nordstrand, T]

Scared of dolls, are we? ;) Costume design, reinterpretation of a known theme, modelling... looks like conceptual work to me. Moreso than glossy paintings of dragons and semi-nude chicks with guns, no?

I hope they give your teacher a scare, liankathleen! :D

[343guiltyspark]

man u guys are sad, this guy does some art for school and u say it should be deleted, u say it has nothing do do with conceptart, but what does pictures of already famous comic book characters have to do with conceptart:mad:

[liankathleen]

The point of the project was to basicly choose three things to illistaraite our essay, our essays which were supposed to be taking a concept of Romeo and Juliet ad elaboratng on it from a fresh angle. I assumed that illistrating a concept would be considered "concept art".

But this isn't my forum, I just got here and don't know the "rules"... I don't want to piss anyone off. If you think it should be deleted, than delete it. It doesn't really matter. I got feedback, which is what I wanted, so I'm a happy camper. If this forum has restrictions on what is considered concept art, please point out to me where I can read them so I don't have to make this mistake in the future.

I don't know if people are having problems with this because it's Shakespeare, or because it's done with Barbies... the only reason I used barbies is because they were a nice base to start with. Would you have had the same amount of trouble with it if I'd sculpted the whole thing from clay? I only got the assignment last Friday, but I thought that I'd put enough hours and creativity into it for it be counted as something. Juliet is wearing five different artices of clothing made from scratch. Romeo is wearing two, and his face is re-consctructed.

As for the people who've mentioned that that isn't what Romeo and Juliet would have looked like in death, they were distraught and angsty and unhappy and the like, it's not supposed to be an actual illistration from the book - It probably won't make much sense unless you actually read the essay, and I bet none of you would actually sit here and read a high-schooler's englsh essay,

For the record, I "donated" the project to the english department to use as an example for next semesters class. So yes, the teacher liked it.

[liankathleen]

I have a lot of artwork. I've been looking through to forum, and yes, I'm guess it's probably not what you people are lookign fro... I'm feeling kind of embarassed about it, so someone please delete this thread. I will have stuff to post here that will fit at some point, I didn't look around in this part of the forum well enough to get the hint. I've just been looking for places to post artwork, and I've been participating in DSG everyonce and a while, and didn't really think about it when I posted.

My website went down for a while, so right now the only artwork I have online is at my deviantart accounthttp:// All of them are either sketches or paintings (oil and digital) except for a small batch of particularly awful poetry someone asked me to post. Nearly all of it is original.

This is the first thing I've ever done even vaughly sculture related, unless you count architecture models - Romeo's face was re-sculpted with Sculpy, actually - I've had it for a while but never actually used it before. I'll have to try do do something with it this summer.

[darkcult]

ha ha ha
Romeo & Juliet

he he

art?


:bash:

[Sammy]

As far as my opinion goes (and I'm sure it's not worth much here)..your work is conceptual I've never seen Juliet in a long white dress and it works ... you just have to use something that not all the people have on this site - imagination -

I had a hard time when I started out on the site posting conceptual work from my industrial design classes.. I'd get no replies.. my advice is to post a friggen' Orc or Dragon no matter how much it hurts ... then you might get some feedback...sometimes it's the only way

[sjoerd]

Shouldnt u use a Ken instead of a Barbier for Romeo

and erm no it doesnt fit on this forum but hey, we can still give normal comments people?

Erm i don't know if you tried really tried to make some kinda "filmstill" or you deliberatly (spelled it wrong right?) used barbie figures and their stick figure like appearance.
2nd of all the background kinda sucks you did your best with the blood and the expresson on the face and it turned out well on Juliet imo. Just Romea needs some work..

Maybe you can have him kneeling with his arm in front of his Ken like smile if you would use a ken, or let go face down next to her.

Anyway make it more dramatic.

The way it looks to me now, barbie fell in a big bath of tomatoketchup and accidentally landed on a shoebox after that, and some freakky bad skinned short haired girl landed on her after all that.

but

the idea is nice :O

[Tekura]

Hey,

I think (if you want) make it more dramatic, frame the whole scene like a picture, with a background etc and borders, some lighting, make it into a 'sculpted picture' of some sorts (if you get me?). Then maybe bring it into Photoshop and tweak it electronically, paint over bits, add highlights to the faces, clothing, etc

(Or better still, do some fan art of comic characters, or friggin' Jedi knight, or...or...or)

- cheer up luvvie, you are an artist, (I think everyone should keep their hair on - they could've added some creative advice???.....)

T

[Coma]

A lot of the comments here really disgust me.
he/she made a mistake and admitted to it .
so leave it the fuck alone and stop with the childish condescending "hahaha's"

[Coma]

Hah I was never worked up...
Re-read the thread man... you missed a lot of posts.

[liankathleen]

It's nice that so many people are actually giving crits, even if it doesn't belong here...

Yes, unfortunatly, the photograph does sucked. The most effort at a "background" was to clear all the crap of my painting desk. I was just trying to show the dolls as dolls, instead of trying to setit up to look like a nice scene, wich I wish I'd dow. The idea with setting it up and editing in photoshop sounds really smashing, and if I ever do something like this again (which I hope I do) I'll do that.

As far as having Romeo kneel, these are the kind of babries who limbs have no joints at all. (I bribed my younger cousins with candy to persuade them to give them to me.) I was thinking of seeing if I could melt the limbs and let them dry bent (I wanted them to be holding each other), but I didn't have the time, and only had just these barbies, so if it didn't work I'd have melted their arms off, and that would be bad.

The white dress is supposed to double as her both her burial dress, and a wedding dress - their's many refrences in the play to Juliet being married to Death. Plus it would make sence, because if she was supposed to have been getting married to Paris that week, their would have been a wedding dress fitted for her and available, and fancy enough to have her buried in. Romeo's in his morning clothes. ROmeo did turn out to be very ugly, and still a little too effeminate.

[SCARS]

It's not really concept art, it's just a concept so far with little execution thereafter, just some snapshots of dolls you messed around with a little. Maybe good for a visual to go with a report, but like some suggestions before I'd say (at least to fit in this forum) go back and think about final presentation. And yes, start from scratch, or at least tear the heads off and make new ones. Do some sketches, come up with a composition, lighting, atmospheric effects, costumes, environment, then hop in there and sculpt away. Now get to work, it's due tomorrow.


Spelling helps too when looking to establish credibility.

[liankathleen]

It was due yesterday. It was handed in, and is gone now. he lighting really doesn't matter except for presentation on the web, because it was the dolls and the deathbed and the other components of the project that were being handed in, not the photographs.

I'm working on the spelling thing. I'm a terrible typist.

I also know this post was a mistake, and next time will make sure what I post here belongs here before I post it. You guys can stop repeating yourselves now, I get the point.

[SCARS]

THE POINT that I hope you got is you have a lot to learn, and that excuses and afterthoughts will get you nowhere. I assume what you were looking for was constructive criticism, you got it from a lot of people who didn't have to care, use it or dont' but don't lay down the "shoulda, woulda, coulda's" it wastes everyones time including yours.

that's all I have to say about that...moving on

[tegehel]

It's not really concept art, it's just a concept so far with little execution thereafter, just some snapshots of dolls you messed around with a little.

I'm gonna play the Devil's advocate here, but this is concept art. It's not drawing or painting, but photography is a recognized artistic form of art, and this is definitively a conceptual piece, hence it is concept art.

I would say that because people assume or expect certain media or style or even quality doesn't mean that it doesn't belong in this forum per se.

What doesn't belong here is ignorance, rudeness, irrelevant repudiation and unconstructive criticism.

There is another thread whose topic is 3D modelling and often, people post photographs of sculptures here, all relevant to this forum, and similar to this project in essence.

If one looks around, one will see several levels of "finished" projects, and of course, it is all very subjective, so I have a hard time understanding when someone else (who is not the author) affirms with authoritative conviction that a particular piece is unfinished and/or belongs in the WIP thread.

Especially when you see the stuff that's in Art Galleries these days, sometimes you wonder not only if it's finished, but if it even was started...and it sells for zillions, so it's all relative, is it not? The Simpsons had an excellent episode dedicated to this artistic frenzy.

That's the problem with art, subjectivity vs objectivity...and the artists' egos.

I stand by my claim that this site is called ConceptArt.org and not PencilArt.org or Anything-with-a-brush.org and if someone wants criticism for their photographs, well, why not? we might all learn from it, and who knows, we might see some wonderful snapshots.

Now, whether one likes them or not is yet another discussion.

C.

[SaltyDog]

I have to agree w/ tegehel here. Just because something doesn't fit into the confines of traditional media does not disqualify it from being concept art.
Ideally, one would like to have all the time in the world to flesh out an idea, research possible methods of execution and then have an eternity to complete it. But in reality, time constraints, both professional and academic, can be brutal.
Get past the fact that Barbies were used. Get off your fucking high horses of what constitutes concept art.
I'm embarrassed at the brutality and insensitivity that some of you have shown to someone posting their work.

I've been following this thread off and on and I want to apologize to you, liankathleen, for some of the assholes here. Keep up the good work and don't sweat the typos :)

[SCARS]

The smoke-blowing technique of critiquing is much more effective. Good Idea, I'll remember that from now on. I'd rather hear the brutal truth about my work(and I've had my share and learned immensly) than have the wool pulled over my eyes.

So let's agree to diasgree. No one is being an asshole, some people just think coddling is uselsess.

I will retract the "not-art" statement and agree with tegehel on that point though.

[Payback]

I think the reason for the comments given by others in this post is because it kinda looks like "modern art" when you just look at the pictures, and because I don't feel your point really got through at your first post. And I was also a bit sceptical about it, but after reading your responses I can tell you've really thought the actual concept through, even though it didn't seem very necessary (cause if I would've done it, I would'nt have thought it through at all).

The reason why most people look at this as an obscure method would be, and I'm just guessing here, the fact that you've used already constructed objects like dolls (instead of making it from scratch out of clay for example). Most people are used to drawings and colored pictures, and if you would've made your photos into a reference picture and made drawings out of them, I'm sure you wouldn't have gotten the comments that you have recieved. I'm sure you, and most people, are aware of this.

Anyway, I think you shouldn't give up your artistic "ways", but instead keep posting on this forum... be it good or bad.

I think I've rambled quite enough now... later.

[darkcult]

Well using Barbie dolls and messing them (visually playing) around as in making the statement of some kind (cashing in on children's dreams, or whatever (you pick)) is OK and it could be ART indeed (depends on the final look (visually) as well) but using them in “quasi” conceptual design (or call it what u want) is, excuse me , NOT ART, modern or whatsoever.

There.

Shoot me now.

:argue:

[Nordstrand, T]

Quoting Scooter:

"It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice"

This thread leads nowhere, and I hope we can gracefully let it walk in peace to Page 2.

Thanks,

[darkcult]

Unfortunately this forum is not about being nice my friend,
It’s about art. It is more important to have your own opinion. Discussion (even if we all don’t agree) is a healthy way of learning a thing or two.
There shoot me again.
:ak47:

[foster]

none of the work i have posted in this site to date is within the narrow definition that some of you are proponents of. if you would like me to stop posting my work and relegate this site to a confined point of interest i will be happy to do so. but let me suggest that you (those who did not want this on the forum) broaden your definition. i went through many a course in school that was considered conceptual and they were all editorial illustration based. concept-an idea or notion. that is pretty broad and should be left that way for greater options in creativity.

honesty in a critique is great. but remember your job here as a critic is to help that person become better. so yes you need to put your arm around them and be comforting as well as critical. dwell on the positives as much as the negatives. this is not just to blow smoke but to reaffirm the things that are done right, otherwise you may just cause the person to throw the baby out with the bath water. i never responded well to negative reinforcement, i agree that some do, but just as many do not.

jon

[mime]

jon, you are an exceptionnal artist, but you are also an intelligent and kind person !!

[enigma]

wth...does EVERYthing have to be so graphical for people to appreciate it as art? all u ppl that say its freaking u out ought to be ashamed....who are u to say whats art?

a famous artists actually did pretty much the same thing this person did with the barbies, except he put the barbies in sexual positions...and matel decided to sue him...they lost the case..

anyhow, i get it....and its NOT freaking me out, the person who asked what it has to do with concept art and the other one that was ranting no about it having to be deleted tsk tsk...

[liankathleen]

You guys just seem to be argueing with each other now, and it doesn't have anything to do with me any more.

The arguement has seemed to have gone from "does it belong here?" to "is it art?", which is is a loosing arguement no matter what side you take, because no one can define "art". As far as I'm concerned, I don't care if you hate it. Go ahead and hate it! Hopefully someday I can create something that people hate because it disturbs them rather than just because it's badly done. I don't care if you people "aren't nice to me" - I thought the first comment SCARS made was perfecly reasonable. I like constructive critisim in anyway I can get it, as long as people point out what they think is wrong with it and how they think it should be improved. Most of the comments made here, I think have been wonderful, even if they've been attacking the barbies. Everyone has a right to their own opinions, and if it's about something I've done, I want to hear it whether it's negitive or postive.

I cannot say I appreciate people attacking me, and telling me to stop wasting everyone's time by defending myself, because if you care that much about me wasting your time, stop reading this thread. The more you attack me, the more people are going to recognize my user name and click on the link for whatever I post up here next. If you want to play that game, go ahead, you're just pissing more people off and drawing the arguement out more.

To the people who've private messaged me seperately, I have no intention of not ever posting here again, just because my first peice was taken so badly - it's extremely refreshing to find a place where people care enough to actually reply to a post of someone who isn't some kind of internet celebrity. I also have no intention of drawing things that will "fit" here just out of need to have people like me.

So, I'm pretty sure everything else that's been said has been defended, and everyone's just repeating themselves now, so I think now'd be a good time to just let this thread die.

[foster]

you are mistaken liankathleen if you think this thread or that anyone thinks their own thread is just about them. it is important that these conversation take place and are worked out. you were a catalyst. you are also an artist and as you well said will post here again and i am sure you will get the criticism you desire. but the life of a thread that mutates into a larger discussion should not be shut down. this is what it is all about. conversation, ideas, opposing ideas and opinions that are intelligently put forth.

this thread became interesting as it grew and it was not just about barbie bashing.

jon

[liankathleen]

Good point. I've been warned in other forums about being too off-topic, and most threads like this seem to get shut down because the meds don't like people fighting.

[Landmate]

:confused:

[benjiazn]

i like "jmascho"'z pic tho...
:p

[foster]

landmate, you are making your own definitions now. it is not that black and white. once again none of the work i have posted fits under your recemended definition of concept art. as a matter of fact a greater amount of work on this forum would not be considered concept art. stop trying to narrow the scope of what concept art can be and let it expand. otherwise you may find yourself stuck to production art and a set of markers and no direction to try anything new.

as for your rather negative comments on the work. what was constructive about that. better to not waste your energy on something rather than spend time and emotion bringing it down.

jon

[enigma]

i think ure being a bit to harsh there landmate...

just recently i went to a thread where a person did their art in a 3d program first so they could better understand the dinamics of how the object the wanted to draw worked and such....


my point is, concept is a 'general idea derived or inferred from specific instances or occurrences' and art...well we don't know whats art, we're noone to judge so it should not matter if someone puts that idea down through 3d or pen on paper, the point is the idea is down, artists are supposed to defy the laws arent they? who says that we have to sketch something first, then go to 3d in that order...we all have our different techniques

besides who says that the person that posted the barbies did not have an enitial sketch or something...

and this does not have to be in 3d thread does it? isn't the title of THIS thread "it's finally finished?' and isn't this barbie piece finished?

[Burton]

I guess I don;t understand why you are depicting this with Barbie dolls. Barbie dolls have a lot of conceptual baggage as promoting a very harmful stereotype about femininity which is quite different from being "the epitomy of femininity". Perhaps you meant what society says is "the epitomy of femininity". I don't get how depicting the characters as a mass produced gender-role inducing toy points to the specialness of what they have accomplished. Unless I don't understand what you are going for.
I think your idea of capturing love in its prime via suicide is interesting, but I think you should try to focus more on that basic concept. What I get from this currently is that you are trying to say something about the relationship between Romeo and Juliet and gender roles, not the relationship between gender roles and Shakespearian traditions in how to cast plays: the all male cast.
Imagery of bloody dolls, as you have here, is often used in horror to depict serial killer fantasies because the killer A: enjoy the objectification of the woman, and B: it gives them a chance to act out their fantasies. It also references children playing.
That's much more of what I think of when I see dolls like this, but that seems to go against your main idea of tragically capturing something precious by immortalizing it through death. I don;t see this and think of it as a drawing done using Barbies as the medium. I see it as the twisted result of the mind of its disturbed creator.

[Sammy]

Burton, it's easy to point a finger at the Barbie doll for portraying a "harmful stereotype about femininity" ... but it was the Barbie that broke the boundries of (Grow up to be a housekeeper and pop out children) baby dolls... The Barbie gave children a roll model as a career girl and not a housewife... it's been a great influence.. and a great scapegoat.... In this sense of the Barbie I thin it captures Juliet's rebeliouse nature...

anyways ---- blah, blah, blah,.... why's it so fun to rant.. someone hit me *Smack* ........ thanx

it's crazy what this thread has become.. it was just an english project....... I think we've all been down this road....... and honestly my eanglish projects were never this cleaver and thought out.. I never put much energy in them... If I was his teacher he'd get an A

[Scubasteve]

Bluuughh. I don't care for the imagery. In my opinion this isn't art. :barfing:

[brasshorsekiller]

Hasn't this thread been locked yet?

[Landmate]

:confused:

[Lithium]

Landmates allowed to say whatever he wants because, quite simply, he is the guy behind doublemoonproductions... equalled by errrrr.... Nivbed... and not many others!! :P


edit: and to add to this ass-kissing session, I ALSO think this romeo&juliet thing sucks

[Mort]

mwhahah..eh?
thanx mate..now i dont feel so wierd :)

[SaltyDog]

*sigh* I promised myself I wouldn't post in this thread again, but I find myself blindly typing away here.

As has been stated, this was a simple school project. The utilization of onhand materials in the given time constraint is admirable. It's obvious that liankathleen isn't a professional in this industry, yet I commend her/him for trying to go above and beyond the typical student. Having said that, a closing point to the negativity here.

While having the freedom to state your opinion...think of this. When you were at this point in your artistic career, and I know you've all been there, what would it have done to your desire to improve if something you slaved over was scoffed at and deemed 'Not Art'. I find it offensive that self-styled artists have the audacity to call something Not Art. You more than anyone should know and understand the wide-flung scope to that which we call our profession.
Feel free to scoff behind closed doors but reserve your postings to that which even remotely helps. There's a r eason it's called constructive criticism.
I have lost much respect for the likes of landmate and others due to this, and while I will look at your work with somewhat jaded eyes, I nevertheless would never deem your work 'not art'. I respect my fellow artists at least that much.

[bat]

I hadn't read this thread until I saw all of the attention it has been getting. I agree with foster here totally. There is a difference between giving constructive criticism and just being negative. I see a lot of work here done in the 'appropriate' media that, to me, shows an utter lack of imagination, moreso than skill or technique, and you know what, I keep my little fingers quiet. I do offer help when I can when I see something off or that could use help.

While anyone that posts an image here had better have the guts to take whatever is dished out, those who offer comments should have the courtesy to at least try to offer helpful advice. I like this place because the hostility level was down and most people seemed professional, at least in demeanor, but the acidic comments of some posters to this thread make one wonder what the general maturity level around here really is.

b a t

[J.Peckham]

page 4 !! page 4!! let's keep talking about barbie dolls!!

[Davey Jones]

-Okay, I'll give my two cents. I don't know if I've even posted here before or not, but hey, if I can do my part to get this thread to Page 4 then I'll do it!

I guess I get burned out with people debating what "Art" really is. I think the the person who posted the barbie dolls obviously felt that he/she had created a piece of art.

That said, I have a hard time seeing how appropriate it is to this forum. And as far as what good C&C is, I get cagey when people jump on each other for giving their blunt opinion. So is Landmate a jerk because he says that he doesn't like it? I don't like it either to be honest. And modern art? Call it what you want, but honestly, how can you compare the skills of someone who splatters paint on a whim to some one like that guy who's been posting those AMAZING pencil renders of dogs lately? It's apples and oranges. If modern artists want to call themselves artists, fine. But I don't think we should be harped on for voicing our opinion that we don't like it. Usually when I see poor quality artwork on this forum I won't say anything. Maybe it's best for me to keep my mouth shut. And I wonder if alot of you guys do the same thing. Haven't we all noticed that there's seldom any posts on artwork that's obviously poor? Go back over the last week of posts and see what's getting the comments. The good to great artwork. It's one thing to see a piece that has a few flaws, like "The arms are too long" and "That eyeball looks off place" But when there's a picture that has so many fundamental flaws to it the only comment I could think of giving would be "Go back to basic shapes and work on the fundamentals"

I think the reason this thread in particular is so long is because of the debate of what's appropriate art for this forum and what's good critisim. I don't think it has much to do with evaluating the piece itself. I haven't seen many comments or tips on how to improve it. What could you say? It's already a finished piece.

I dunno, I think the greatest example we have is that thread of the guy who started from total novice and you see his improvement over time. He started with fundamentals and worked his way from there. That made it easy to give good C&C to and he improved. But turning out obscure art baffles me on what the people posting are trying to acheive.

Anyhow, there you go, maybe we're on page 4 by now!

[Clodhopper]

well...you certianly created a thought provoking image. I find it interesting that so many people are SO pissed off by this image that they have to post negative feedback. I doubt that is what the image is meant to do. but I think it is a fairly difficult acheivment to make a peice that so many people seem to hate so much...OTOH i don't like it either, but its a good discussion peice.

"modify" is not something artists do, they "create".

I tihnk the reason i don't like it is that...yer using other people's products. the barbie doll modification really bothers me. and if you are going to base a "sculpture" on a prefabricated product of someone else's design, it can never really be considered "original". fabric is a raw material and is acceptable, but a Barbie Doll is not. and it makes me quesiton the presence of artistic skill, this image is far from aestetic so i would say go back and maybe next time create something with the intention of being completely original- and not "modified", and use raw materials...i think you will win more favorable comments that way.

[Burton]

Sammy, while what you say is true about Barbie dolls, I think that idea can easily coincide with what i was saying. While they were a break in the trends of stay-at-home dolls, that does not change the fact that they became an icon for the idealized female body, and an impossibly proportioned, masturbatory one at that. Far from being some beacon of self-reliant girl power, Barbies taught little girls to obsess over the latest outfits, trendy styles, and other consumerist goods. That's a far cry from anything remotely inspiring the free pursuit of one's interests in the face of a male run business world.
With that in mind, I think the idea that Barbie is a sign of rebellion, while that may have made some sense in the early 60's, is no longer very reasonable. And if that is the case, I think it does not make much sense to portray the rebellious Juliet with it.

[Landmate]

I didn't mean any harm to the "artist". I'm sorry for being so negative. I'll take it down immediatly.

saltydog: Im sorry that you lost respect for me due to the fact that I have a different opinion then you.

[foster]

edit

[bat]

While nobody should think anyone is a jerk for having a different opinion, there is such a thing as tact, and it really doesn't take that much extra typing to exercise a little. Although I myself feel some people were brash with kneejerk comments, I won't look at anyone's work any differently, and will still treat everyone the same myself. Many people consider these Barbies not to be art, which is expression, yet they practice computer art, which is also considered a questionable medium (hell, so is airbrush work to an extent) by some. I am not impressed by most computer work (although a few people here really do stand out), and have noticed that a few people who can colour in PS cannot draw. Yet I don't think that this makes anyone less an artist or that their choice of medium is lame or trash. It just isn't for me, I still respect the efforts of others and never feel the compulsion to slam them. Everyone that posts is trying, and we are ALL learning and growing as artists and/or illustrators.

b a t

[Scubasteve]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my comments, But I was merely stating my opinion. I supposed I could have been more constructive, but I wouldn't know where to begin with this piece. As for the debate over whether or not this is art or not I have a good rule of thumb I use when determining that. If my eyes want to stray involuntarily, then what I am looking at probably isn't art. I believe art is subjective to a point, but I don't believe that its completely up to the individual. Presenting something as artwork doesn't make it so. I think a certain degree of skill, inspiration or substance should be involved somewhere in the process. Does a 2 year old who scribbles with crayons produce art? Painting up a couple of bloody barbies doesn't cut it in my opinion either. Who couldn't have done this? What skill is involved? And who wants to see it? I think people should consider these questions before they label what they have done artwork or just a mess.:rolleyes:

[northern-raven]

This forum was designed to lend artists an open minded audience who would supply intelligent critiques, tips, and support.

I have to say I am not seeing very much of this for this particular aspiring artist . For those who choose to leave thoughtless comments, I have to wonder what you are doing here.

Liankathleen, your creativity and resourcefulness can not be denied. I hope this aspect in you will never change. Most companies are looking for your kind of thinking. They look for concepts that have not been tried before - new ways of thinking...attention grabbers. You demonstrate these qualities flawlessly.

It couldn't have been easy finding a paint that would stick to the vynl (sp?) head, or the plastic body of the doll and it is evident that you did come across some trouble.

I find that the best paint to use is matt-finish acrylic that you can find in any craft store. It's usually designed for painting wood and ceramics. To remove the original Barbie make-up, nail polish remover works wonders.

Turning a female barbie in to a male doll must have taken a lot of effort and is certainly a demonstration of your determination.

I am impressed by your passion, and your originality and I hope to see more of your work in the future! Good luck with the assignment, I hope you get a good mark!

[liankathleen]

Thanks. I got back my mark today, ++4, which I'm pretty sure was just the teacher's enthusiasium that someone in the world actually put effort into a homework assignment. (For those of you who understand the new Canadian grading system, a "4" is the equivlent to an "A", or 80-90 percent. +4 is 90-100. )

This mark is given by an english teacher, not an art teacher.

[Jezebel]

I actually did something similar to this for an art class. I had to create something from pre-existing parts using colors to represent a mood.

I did two barbies displayed in boxes, kind of like houses. One that represented envy and one that represented lust. The envy doll was painted half sickly green with tattered clothes and shredded hair on one side, her side of the room lacked windows and color. The other half of her face was perfect and cheery, long blonde hair and a pretty pink dress. The green half was holding a mirror to the "normal" half.

The lust one was painted red and black, she was wearing ripped fishnets, a black skirt and a black bra. Ebil little words were written all over the room and there was a mirror in it that said '' in red lipstick across the front.

Definitely the WEIRDEST freakin' things I ever made. They scared me and I threw them away... hahaha...

[Mort]

i changed my mind..look at all this responses and emotions
to this project of yours..this is what art is all about..
we needed somthing different on this forum..to wake some of us up from our usual robots and girls with guns pictures.
yea i know this is a concept art forum..but it doesnt hurt!

thanx again mate..:chug:

[Ant4d]

Well well.. what a topic.

I think art is a way of communication. And I find this photo is telling us all something, whatever it is.
but generally I dont find this kind of modern art very interesting.

my crit/suggestion would be: you should shit in the can and put it on the right side, just for balance.:rolleyes:

no worries mate

[MGH]

Conceptual Art - n.
Art that is intended to convey an idea or concept to the perceiver and need not involve the creation or appreciation of a traditional art object such as a painting or sculpture.

I must admit liankathleen's Barbie thing is definitely not my cup of tea but then again I get a little tired of Anime (or whatever it's called). That doesn't mean it doesn't belong here.
Imagine what Tim Burton's or Terry Giliam's high school projects looked like!

[brads3d]

From what I read of Lian's explanations, her 'piece' is something she put alot of effort into, relative to other students in the class. While putting the barbies on a shoebox, cutting their hair, and splattering paint on them isn't too effort-laden, cutting the clothes, and modifying 'romeo's' features with clay require some time and thought.
Lian- I hope to see you go more in the direction of clay and clothing. Maybe you can develop your photography skills to portray the real effort you go through in your projects.
While my main reaction to your piece is similar to most of the other people's, I commend you on going above and beyond the other students, because it shows a real creative desire. I encourage you to nurture that, and expand it.
Hell, when I was in the single-digit ages, I used to use tracing paper on comics and things, and now I'm creating my own ideas and lines.
The whole Barbie stereotype/rebel whatever discussion is kind of the chicken and the egg thing. Millions of factors shift the evolution/de-evolution of society. It's not like the Barbie fell out of the sky like bottles do in Africa. As far as Barbie's slenderness, I don't think most little girls could adequately grasp a rosie odonnel sized doll with their small hands. Anyways, I think J-Lo is reflecting a societal shift back toward a rounder figure. I've always liked womanly women myself.

[Layil]

well, i have a foot on either side of the fence. While i dont particularly like the piece, i appreciate the amount of thought and effort put into creating it, using what materials were at hand on short notice. I think it could have been improved with more time and constructive critizism from a third party, but it being a finished piece, its a moot point. what is art? lets not go there, cause i dont consider alot of things commonly hailed as masterpieces art and think alot of other stuff people dont even realize exist belongs in museums. what is concept art? a piece of art with a concept behind it. and i must say that i find it funny that yall are making such a stink about this, considering theres a hell of a lot of art posted here with no concept to it whatsoever; ie: halfnaked-chick-with-gun. not to say i dont like them, but lets not fool ourselves.... i think alot of people initial reactions to this were kneejerk responses, especially the ones that inlcluded references to being grossed out or disturbed. theyre barbies. they have paint on them and their faces look melted. it seems to me an immature response to "something out of the ordinary" dont get me wrong, i love alot of the artists on this forum and i think people here are alot more respectful than just about anyother online place ive ever been. it surprise me when this sort of adolecent behaviour crops up, especially among seasoned professionals. its not like shes posting kiddi porn, people. critisism should be constructive or not at all. if you dont like it say so, by all means, but explain why, not just "it sucks." if thats all you have to say, whats the use of posting at all? this place is what it is because most of us try to make a bit more of an effort. plus, its just plain rude. i wouldnt want to spend hours making something just to have people go "eeewww, its gross! it sucks! delete it!!!" weve all been there, we know its not fun.

so basically, to wrap up my rant. play nice, treat others as you would want to be treated and all that crap....

[Crashman_120]

Yeah...Congrats on making a good school project, it just doesn't fit these forums.:confused:

[amphex]

stfu

[MGH]

stfu?

[deviousg]

much ado about nothing..

[Manta_Ray]

Oooh I so totally love this thread. If you confine yourself to thinking any form of art is simply about the materials/technique of a work and ignore the EFFECT it has on people then you miss the point. Lian has simply placed a form of found art into a forum largely devoted to technique and process and it has certainly upset the status quo. (even if alot of us seem to dislike it). Right on target Lian...you should print this discussion out and show it to your teacher maybe they'll give you a 5++ or whatever....

Im not knocking the artists here who think the work is crap, they are totally entitled to their opinion. I'll be honest I think the work is a bit weak and cliche but it definitely gets a response. Well done Lian.:p