Jesus Camp...the movie!!

[Cthogua]

ahh....the sickly sweet smell of indoctrination

http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/

I went to church camp many times as a child, always because my 2 best friends were sons of the local Baptist preacher. It was never as combativly framed as these "God Soldier" type people though. Seriously though, believe whatever religion you like...however when you start using the impressionability of young children to spread your politico-religious agenda of hate...that's when a line has been crossed IMHO. Having been to this type of camp many times as a child I feel like I can testify to the amount that peer pressure plays into what the kids do and say. Seriously...what do you think an 8 year old who is told "You either love jesus or you don't!" is going to do when surrounded by other children that have been told that sinners go to hell, never get to see their families again and suffer an eternity of torture. It seems unethical to assault children not even old enough to have developed any kind of real critical thinking skills with what amounts to propaganda. During one of the crying sessions at the end of the final sermon at camp I asked one of the councilors if I should be crying, since I didn't really have anything to cry about...he told me, "the storms are on the horizon" C'Mon now, even then I could tell that most of the kids were crying and "getting saved" just because thats what they thought the adults wanted. I even remember seeing a group of other kids physically attack another kid at camp because he said he didn't believe in god. I kept my mouth shut after that. To some degree children are basically like dogs in that they will do nearly anything if they think it is what the adult wants them to do.

The movie itself actually looks like a nicely balanced and interesting look at what IMHO amounts to religious zealotry no better or worse than the fanatical Islamic Jihadists.

click on "video" to see the trailer

[Silvertone]

Wow, that was awesome!

I see your Jesus camp my friend and raise you one...BIBLEMAN!!

http://www.bibleman.com/liveevents.shtml



I'm agnostic now but was raised catholic. I remember the first time I got accused of being a pagan and not a "real christian" due to my catholicism. I never knew the hatred some christian sects held towards catholics.

[Cthogua]

nice, the chanting "BIBLEMAN BIBLEMAN BIBLEMAN" in the background totally makes that.

...and about the Catholic hatred. While I was going to this Baptist church as a child I had people tell me that: Everyone but Baptists were going to hell. That Jews "missed the boat" and Catholics were going to hell because they worshiped Mary and she wasn't technically part of god. Oh, and also that "they" made up the dinosaurs...yeah even in 4th grade that sounded stupid.

I don't want to come off like I really have a problem with religion, people should believe what ever makes them happy about things that cannot be proven or disproven in our current state. However that should be a decision they are free to make without coersion. I think introducing children to violent, politic laced rhetoric maintained by peer pressure at such an early age is waaaay worse than if they accidentally saw some pornography or something...they might be a little bit confused, but its not mind control.

[Snuggles]

Seriously. What's Christian about pressure, about 'warring on non-believers' and 'taking back America?'

'Cuz Jesus was all about hating the gays and stuff. And Jews. Man, Jesus sure loved to beat up those Jews.

Edit: Afterthought. Jesus would also be totally behind the political takeover of America, because he never said anything like, 'Give what is Caeser's to Caeser and what is God's to God.'

[Jedmo]

I saw the trailer for this movie a couple days ago. Was really one of the scariest things I've seen. It really makes me very angry to see people pushing their own agenda by blatantly exploiting the impressionability of children. The adults shown pulling the strings of all this seem like the kind of extremely dangerous closed minded types that comprise the ranks of militant fundamentalist Islam. These are the same kind of people that strap bombs to their chests and blow up marketplaces. Fundamentalism, no matter what religion it is a part of, is indeed a scary thing.

[Silvertone]

Well, I wouldn't worry to much about these kids. Anyone they run into outside their little camp will just laugh them off. They're such an incredibly small minority.

I just saw a documentary on people raising their children as white supremists which also showed the 2 twin girls who are budding pop stars but sing about white supremecy. Then there's the whole "God hates f*gs" group, who I think is the same as the "Thank God for 9/11" crowd.

When the christian FOX News guys, who are kissing Pat Robertson and Jimmy Swaggerts butts all the time, are sickened, outraged and have utter contempt for that brand of christiandom, you know they are way, WAAAAAAY out there! Scary and sad but probably not much support outside their own little click.

Fundamentalist christians are annoying, but they're not likely to do anything more than scream at me that I'm going to hell. Fundamentalist Islamists will give me the option of converting or getting my head lopped off. I believe a new Al Queda tape just recently put forward that same request. Compare the reaction of the Muhammed cartoons to the reaction of The Last Temptation or Piss Christ.

That's why I love Jews! They're not about converting or damning people to hell or jihading for allah. Actually if you wanted to convert to Judaism, rabbis are supposed to make three vigorous attempts to dissuade a person from converting to Judaism!

[seba_boi]

excluding crazies who believe they are the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.
Oh, geez... Not that I'd want to turn this to another Christian/Non-Christian flamewar, but it did say in the Bible about the second coming of Christ... I mean, I believe it...

[seba_boi]

Okay... No argument here then...

[Mr. Visions]

I will say that after viewing that, I was a little disturbed. As a Christian, I honestly believe this isn't what Christianity suppose to be about, turning Children into soldiers (in this manner) and turning this into some sort of war. The war the Bible speaks of is a spiritual one. I believe the Bible speaks of letting God fight our wars and continue to be faithful. I think the beginning message that should be given at camps such as these is to tell what Jesus mission really was: to spread the message of God's love for mankind. I believe kids should be given courage to stand up for their beliefs and such, but the message sent in this trailer seems to be quite a detour. Some of what those kids were saying made me wonder if they completly understood what they were saying.
I think kids should know God loves us all, that's why Jesus died for us all, not just a select few. People get this twisted alot, and then they are the ones who get the publicity and the movies that makes Christian appear fanatical and hateful. Jesus partied, hung out with gay people, prostitutes, drinkers, drug-users, the works. Those were the people he spoke out to cause they were the shunned. He wanted them to know they were loved and offered God's law to them because that, in his message, offered a healthier and better life for them. He didn't indulge into the activities of their lifestyle, but he was there for them, because he cared. Why would he hang out with people he hated?
I think that's what true fundamentalism should be. Fundamentalism should be getting at the heart of your faith and finding out what you believe, and acting on it. No where in the Bible does it say go out and persecute people, Bible-thump them, and so on. I think the Bible states to be sensative to where people are in their lives and share "the Good News" with them as something uplifting or encouraging, not to be a stumbling block. You can't just go up to someone and say, "you're going to Hell, Love Jesus!" I believe people who do this should study Christ's life more and realize that Jesus was upfront, but he knew how to meet people where they were at. (the record of his life take up 4 books in the New Testament for a reason)

Example: (in a nutshell) A pagan soldier of Jesus's day comes up to Jesus. "Jesus, I believe you have some sort of power, and that power could heal my servant who I care about dearly. Can you say the word and I know he'll be better." Jesus commended him for his great faith, pointed out he had faith that put the Jews to shame, and said his servant was cured.

Now, did Jesus say, "Well see, I'm the Son of God, and you don't believe in me, so before I can do something fo ya, you need to change your entire lifestyle right now, EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO KNOW ME, believe in me and call me God, ... and THEN I can heal your buddy!"

No. Jesus met him where he was, and said (and did) just enough so that man had something to think about. He let the man come to that decision on his own, and gave him time. I'm sure that same soldier watched him die and realized the meaning of his life alot clearer than so called believers today.

I'm not saying it's NOT urgent for people to know Christ, or for Christians to know him better, and I do believe Hell is a serious issue, but I'm saying that those who believe have to have faith in God that he will work with peoples hearts and on their terms. That's why we have freedom of choice. You can plant a seed, water it, and tend to it, but you have to let the Sun do it's part to let it grow.
And I feel these kids should be given that chance to. They shouldn't love God out of fear or brainwashing, they should get to know him for his love, especially at such a young age.

I hope I haven't drug this on too much. I don't want this turning into a huge religious debate. In the end, with this and Bush, and Zealots, and with Fire & Brimstone Bible thumpers, I say this: Before you make a judgement on God, try to get to know Him first, 1 on 1, not through the media and people that misrepresent him. Talk to people you know (or don't) that seem geniune and care about you and have a relationship like that with God. Its hard to dig through the weeds, but then, after a while, you might find something to hold on to -


- Visions

Edit: being Christian does include believing in His return. Crazy, faith, call it what you like, I believe it, too.

[Mr. Visions]

I dont wanna be coming off self righteous either: I've got my own problems, am far from perfect, and make my fare share of mistakes just like everyone, and don't have all the answers. But I'm aiming for better, nuf said -

- V

[Elwell]

The only difference being that Christians aren't QUITE as strong on Martyrdom, excluding crazies who believe they are the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ. Emphasis added for clarity, some people seem to have missed it.

[Carnifex]

mr.visions,i applaud you.
me,i'm pretty much atheist,although i do believe in some higher power,and i get tired and sickened of all those people who damn others for their beliefs etc. and using jesus as an excuse.
as you rightly said,jesus cared for the outlaws,the damned and helped them. i think that's the very essence of christianity,or should be: helping your fellow man,without condemning them. you put it into better words than me though.

[le capitan]

your either with us or against us! rawrawrawrawrawr. I absolutely hate that quote, whoever made it ought to be damned.

mmmm religion, stirs my loins.

[Mr. Visions]

Emphasis added for clarity, some people seem to have missed it.

Yeah, I definately did, thanks for pointing that out Elwell -

Carnifex - Thanks dude -

- Visions

[fishw]

seconded, Mr Visions. anyone, who didn't read what he wrote coz it's long (i know i do that when reading most threads...skip the long posts that often have the best stuff in), do read it.