Gritty Ww2 Graphic Novel

[el norteno]

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e273/iladstudios/Website/Graphic%20Novels/The%20Liberation%20Sea/new20a.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e273/iladstudios/Website/Graphic%20Novels/The%20Liberation%20Sea/new20a2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e273/iladstudios/Website/Graphic%20Novels/The%20Liberation%20Sea/scene20b2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e273/iladstudios/Website/Graphic%20Novels/The%20Liberation%20Sea/tigerp.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e273/iladstudios/Website/Graphic%20Novels/The%20Liberation%20Sea/tigerp2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e273/iladstudios/Website/Graphic%20Novels/The%20Liberation%20Sea/tigerp3.jpg

Thanks for taking a look the first three are in sequence then seperately the last three are as well...anyways would love to know what you guys think..oh and also our website is up you can check out some more of our projects @ www.iladonline.com

[Artbyryan]

I LOVE IT!
I LOVE THE STYLE. I LOVE THE FEEL. I LOVE THE GRITTINESS.
Awesome unbeleiveable work.

[anticonnor]

I have to say that I'm not particularly a fan of this style. I see it happen a lot in comics where there artist takes a rough sketch and over-filters it in Photoshop and calls it "gritty". Several scenes are obviously seperate sketches that weren't drawn at the same scale and have been layered together, creating confusing line widths and levels of detail. I also think that your environemts could use some work... not all comics rely heavily on environments, but war is all about the battfield and finding cover and the horrible level of destruction.

I love comics, and am excited anytime someone finds the spirit to create one, but I personally think this needs more work to be finished. Practice rendering with inks and paints, or give it a digital paint-over, until you get a feel actually "gritty" and not just "filtered".

Or you could tell me to go to hell.

[GriNGo]

I agree with anticonnor,but anyways the design is nice. Much can be used to improve, right now everything is ver desaturated and plain. A bit more color can help out to, specially in some areas, like the sky, or terrain.

[anticonnor]

Actually, I would say that the colors are TOO saturated, there's just not enough of them. I understand the concept of using sepiatone to lend to the bleak grittiness of war, but real war (I'm going to pretend I know what I'm taking about:bashful:) is a different kind of monotone. It contains all of the colors that you would see in everyday life, only buried under layers of mud, blood and char.

The colors right now look like you dropped everything to grayscale, bumped the pallette over to a sepia range, and jacked up the levels way too much. I think if you checked your Gamut warning it would show you the spots that you've over saturated. I would recommend using a limited pallette of bleak/muted colors, and punctuate with the occaisional bright sunrise, explosion or splash of blood.

AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, LOSE THE LENS FLARES!!:lens: If you need to show a flare or the sun, just draw it in.

[Artbyryan]

You People Are All Wrong. This Is A Work Of Art. And I Feel The Ww2;ness.

[deomonte21]

I really like how you blurred the backgournd in some panels to make the foreground pop. NICE TOUCH.

[Staz Johnson]

I agree with most of anticonnor's comments regarding the overall style, but my main problem with it is the lack of realism. You have labeled this as 'gritty', which to me means realistic/no holds barred/war as it really is. Yet some (not all) of your depictions of weaponry, uniforms & (as anticonnor pointed out) location etc show little indication that you have researched your subject matter. You have done a nice job on the Tiger tank, but there is NO WAY a bazooka rocket could even dent a Tiger (even hi-ex shells fired from Shermans were known to bounce right off Tiger armour), let alone lift one off the ground like that... war is spectacularly terrible enough without doing a Hollywood on it .

[el norteno]

wow well thanks everyone for your honest opinions i apreciate that.

artbyryan:hey thanks for the support man glad somebody likes it.

anticonnor:just a matter of taste i suspose, thanks for your comments a swift kick in the ass is always more helpful then a pat on the back, your right about the environments though you have only seen 6 pages!..but still your right

Gringoloco:thanks for replying...i dont know i just like it as is...ill fuck around with some color and show you guys

Deomonte21: thanks man

staz: first off your pencils are awesome...anyways your right about the bazooka i actualy know way too much about this subject...honestly it was a rushed decision to justify a cool shot...as for the inacuracy in weaponry and uniform please let me know exactly i do a lot of research actualy so if i missed something major please let me know,I know it wouldnt lift the tiger but the armor is weak in the back...the next pages actualy show that the bazooka did not completely knock out the tiger




Again everyone thanks for taking the time:yayca:

[armando]

Just some technical crits. First is the facial expressions, there really aren't any to speak of. It's most noticible where the tank is blowing up behind the guy, but it looks like he's taking a stroll in the park. On the second page the guy is holding hte gun pointed to the right, but is looking to the left. Do some studies of the way clothing wrinkles, his clothes on the first panel of the first page look very unrealistic.

[el norteno]

armando: the thinking behind the panel where the tank is shot was it was that split second before the guy in front has even reacted, yeah i never liked that first panel and will prob do another...as for the other expressions i dont think they are all bland but i do admit they are subtle...i do tend to do that thanks for pointing it out

[Stugmeister]

I love the work mate - its nice and gritty.

My only crit would b that the Tiger tank isn't properly proportioned; also the view where it's being taken out shows it having a sloped glacis!?

[Staz Johnson]

You wanted to know my exact thoughts regarding accuracy. I'll take it page by page...

Page 1) It's almost impossible to tell what the guy in panel #1 is wearing. There's little attempt to represent the details of the uniform., The riflelacks any distinguishing representative detail, so although I'm presuming is an M1 Garand..because that is what you've drawn on page 2, it could just as easily be a German Mauser K98. Pay more attention to how baggy clothing folds & drapes.

Page 2)This is the best page, the storytelling is clear, & you have a nice sense of location. The pose in panel #1 looks natural, the rifle is well represented, although I still think his clothing lacks detail, it certainly doesnt look like a field jacket, I suppose it could be a fatigue jacket, but again more detail is needed I think, because if it weren't for the rifle, I wouldn't know he was a soldier at all.

Page 3) This seems fine.
Page 4) You obviously enjoyed drawing the Tiger tank, & you've done a great job on it, I just think if you had put as much effort into the buildings in the b/g, you would have improved the page 10 fold.

Page5) Excellent job on the guy's uniform in panel #1, although the M1 helmet isn't quite the right shape, & it should apperar bigger on his head...trust me, I know...I've got one in my studio. In panel #2 the Germans are wearing the high leather marching boots, highly unlikely that these would be worn by the latter stages of the war, when this sequence is obviously set. Nice natural pose on the guy with the bazooka, but again the helmet is wrong, it looks more like either a British or German para's helmet.

Page 6) Like an earlier poster, I have some doubts about the perspective on the tank, & again as previously mentioned by someone else, I think there should be some reaction on the face of the soldier in the f/g, I know you said this is the exact instant the rocket hits, but that argument doesn't hold when the tanl has had time to (amazingly) lift up into the air. The German's helmet isn't quite the right shape...I have one of these too!

I hope you use these crits, & don't see them as me just having a go at you. And just to poit out, when I refere to 'detail', I'm not talkin about showing every nut, bolt, row of stitching, fold & crease, but if everything was drawn with the same level of economic detail as the guy in panel #1 page 5, you'd really be rocking.

[2000YearsOldMan]

very unique style man. I like it.
will be cool has more pics.

keep it up

[el norteno]

stugmeister:Thanks,what exactly is the glacis? was that a typo did u mean axis? anyhow thanks again,i lost my ernest p norling perspective book and have been trying to wing it.

Staz:hey man, again thanks for taking the time with this...i certainly dont see your crits as an attack ..they are very much appreciated and will be taken into serious consideration.... do you know where i can get some cheap replica helmets for referance? oh and just in case anyone was wondering this takes place during the invasion of italy.thanks for the eye opener:yayca:

2000yearsoldman:i have more but i dont think i can show it yet...thanks

[Staz Johnson]

do you know where i can get some cheap replica helmets for referance?

Afraid not, mine aren't replicas, & they certainly (especially the German one) weren't cheap. Although you may find getting an American M1 somewhat easier than when I got mine, now that they have switched from that to (ironically) the 'Fritz', there's probably tens of thousands in surplus stores.. My advice..try ebay.

[EDIT]Btw, I think that Stugmeister was probably refering to this part of the tank.
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/162/tigerp3qy2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
That's certainly the part I'm not convinced about, plus I think you should be able to see more of the turret.

[Stugmeister]

[EDIT]Btw, I think that Stugmeister was probably refering to this part of the tank.
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/162/tigerp3qy2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
That's certainly the part I'm not convinced about, plus I think you should be able to see more of the turret.

That's exactly what I meant, thanks for clearing it up Staz.

BTW, I really love the colours and texture you've used for these pics el norteno!:)

[Jesus Food]

Like alot of points mentioned, it does look a little bit saturated and sketchy. I dont know if these are in sequential order or not, but if they are its a little unclear and jumpy. It's still good art, just a little incomplete is all.

>:D

[Zorya Danis]

I don't undestend what type of tank was blow up?
Was it Tiger, o not?

[el norteno]

staz: thanks alot man , i had no idea what you guys were talking about...anyways you guys are right there is an angle on it but its very slight almost vertical

stugmeister: thanks again for bringing this to my attention.

jesusfood: the first three are in sequence,the last three are in sequence...these two scenes quite far apart from eachother..thanks for taking a look.

zorya danis: its a tiger tank (PzKpfw VI TIGER I)

Thanks for all the replies fellaws as soon as i have time ill try to make some corrections...thanks again:yayca:

[LeeM]

Wow, a grilling there then. I met Staz at a convention once and he tore me a new one...but alas he was right. My pages had WAY less class than this (alas again) but the man knows what he's talking about.

I'm new to the concept art forum and have to say I love it. I'll post some art sometime for a savaging.....are we all sado masochists? I'm guessing yes.

As for the art. I agree with most everything that was said here but I read an Erik Larsen piece in "how to become a comic book artist" and his basic premise was "just do it" If you don't draw buildings so well, so what, if you don't draw faces so well so what, as long as you're doing it, making the pages in time things will fall together, you'll get better at proportion, at dynamics in story telling etc. I think the amazing interaction with Staz here is evidence that although some of your technique isn't honned the very fact you've done it makes you a comic book artist...you've a ways to go before you're as good as Staz but doing it is ALL important. Next time you draw a soldier you're going to make damn sure you do it right hey presto you're already a better artist.

Awesome forum. I wish I'd had this when I was younger before I gave up the ghost. Savage as it is you'll grow from the experience. Props to all you other guys, hopefully in the near future you can take a specific period boot to my ego.

Stay real.

[el norteno]

Leem: I couldnt agree with you more.When approached in the appropiate manner and with a good attitude these forums are an excellent form of growth.with help from guys like staz who call it as they see it and force you to dig deeper just when you thought you could go no further.most definitely the next solider i draw will have much more thought put into it as a whole....sorry to hear youve given up...tell that little voice in your head to shut the fuck up ...and pick up the pencil again...anyways guys thanks again

[michaelmeina]

Hello, this is great, would be cool if you did a winter war comic, I'd buy em all!!!!! anyways, great work.:^^:

[el norteno]

michaelmeina:Actually i kind of wanted to do one on the soviets and nazis in stalingrad...next perhaps...thanks for your support

[LeeM]

Leem: sorry to hear youve given up...tell that little voice in your head to shut the fuck up ...and pick up the pencil again...anyways guys thanks again

I still work on it. I just make my living doing graphic "yawn" design which involves some illustration. I'm painting at the moment which is what I studied and what lead me to the forum. I still have a little fantasy that I'll draw a book one day but trouble is I don't just DO it enough, I get stuck at the not being a genius stage like a some what down market Salieri watching Motzart create!

That's why I'm confident you'll suceed because you make pages, for all the faults, there they are plain as day. You've earned my admiration.

It might be interesting to get a little more tonal in your colouring and use that gritty stuff as an overlay layer or soft light would work. Anyway keep at it, I look forward to seeing a re-worked page taking everything into account that has been siad here...I reckon it'll be killer.

[StealthNachos]

There's little more to say than what's been said, but I'll give it a shot.

The explosion? That's where my problem lies. Ignoring the fact that a bazooka's main purpose is to kill the crew inside by forcing open a hole that allows for pressue and heat to build up inside and that not in a million years could a bazooka push a tank off it's treads, my beef is actually with the explosion it's self. When a bazooka hits, and from what I'm seeing, doesn't do it's job, it kicks up a huge amount of dust. So much so that a good portion of the time you can barely even see the actual fire from the explosion. Also, it's not as though tanks don't explode, but only after several direct hits. That and what's been said is my crit.

It may seem like alot, but it's not as though it's not looking good. Just needs more time.