How to keep the finished piece from getting static...

[GoldSeven]

Hey guys, you've been so helpful with my first post - I wonder if you have any ideas about another of my main problems. It's that dratted concrete look that finished pics often have. Is it just that the eye subtitutes motion fort he many squiggly lines in a scribble? Has anyone got any good tips about how to save the motion of a scribble into the finished piece?

Here's two examples of one of the worse cases. I really loved the scribble here, and in the finished version, she looks like a barbie doll.

[Ape_with_a_pencil]

I think it is quite lovely, however, I see what you are saying. I think that the squiggly girl (as you called it) is so poetic looking because the sketch is wonderful and "painterly". In the painted version however you have lost the "painterly" look because it is too rendered. The render is wonderful itself, great attention to detail and lighting and colors. However, everything is rendered VERY tightly. I think that you want the painterly feel to this peice (because of what you are saying in your post) and due to the sketch itself, therefore I would repaint it in a much looser style. Try painting it in painter, with oil paint settings. I would begin it as if you are sketching it with the paints, then go from there.

Hope that helped a little :)

[deschamps]

Hmm... good question. I can't say I know the answer but I think that you can attempt to mimic the fluidity and mystery in a sketch but using softer edges in choice places when painting. Right now your painting has an overall crispness that may make it feel more static. Check out the great use of soft edges in the post jon foster has in the Finished section. http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=75247

[dogfood]

I think it may be something else. The finished piece still relies a lot on lines, but, unlike the sketch, the lines are all weighted pretty much the same. It leads to a static sameness, which may be what you're talking about.

I do agree that a more painterly approach would give it more life, but I don't think that's the only way to do so.

[Theo]

I dunno man but I have the exact same problem. keep rockin, your renders ARE hot.

[Chandan]

In my opinion it has to do with line quality. That mean the thick and think lines and how they describe and loose form into the background. Notice in your rough her left arm at the elbow...your line is somewhat thin. Also, in the final the contours of her arm are the same line thickness as her dress when it should be thicker or the dress contours thinner because one is front of the other.

Let's look at this piece by Mucha.
http://users.swing.be/mucha/pictos/index.jpg

A prime example is her left arm and her dress over the right. Also, cool colours recede while warm ones advance. The dress under her left arm is cooler than her arm while the dress over her right arm is warmer compared to it.

As a final word, it looks static because you've drawn everything the same...some parts of the picture should have more of your attention. And my word is not carved in stone...i'm still a learning artist and might be wrong. If so, please point it out for my sake and for everyone else who might read it and get the wrong impression.

[PHL]

I totally wanted to post a Mucha painting as well, because your painting reminds me of his work.
For what it's worth, if youre going to continue working with that type of style, I think that you should start thinking quite a bit about the whole design of the picture.
How lines and shapes flow into each other (rhythm), variety and contrast between shapes. Pick a center of interest, make it dominant and subordinate everything else.

It's easy to say this stuff, but much more difficult to use it well. So look at good artwork and try to learn from that.
I think you're coming along well though. Good Luck.

[Adarias]

dogfood and chandan nailed it - line weight and quality are key. your finished lines feel like stone because they have no flow to them really, and they all are essentially the same type of line. it seems like you really focussed on putting them in exactly the right place, which doesnt work. the parts that it seems you didnt particularly care about so much, the plant stalks and the flow of the lower dress still have that great life about them while still looking like a final drawing. keeping loose is essential to making a work have life and motion.

a note on mucha: he really knew how to manipulate line quality in his works.
http://vovo2000.com/who/master6/09.jpg
in this piece, the solid lines of the background design and pink flowers contrast with the flowing grace of the figure and orange/red flowers around her. when you have 2 different elements in a piece, even if they are not *that* different, they become foils. this pulls out the qualities of both

the other thing that i notice is the colors in the piece make it feel flat, adding to the solidness of it. you dont have cool colors, and this makes everything seem static. adding in some blues or greens to the piece, even subtle tones, will add a lot of life back into it.

[Lady_Mayev]

I'm not sure if it will help, but you mau try to add some more butterflies and other flying thins like some blossoms from the bucket.
Another thing is the bakcground-it really adds dynamic sometimes. Try making some sort of lines or strokes in the same direction as the movement is. If you make it blue, as if it's a sky, it will be more contrasting and natural.
Sorry for my bad english. I hope this helps you :)

[Tully]

Personally, I find a lot of the static quality of the finished piece comes from the stiff pose of the girl as opposed to anything else, though line quality does certainly play a role. The non-girl parts of the finished one don't seem particularly static to me.. except for those ribbons. There's something odd about the ribbons--I think they're overly geometric.

I believe if you made the pose of the girl more like the pose in the sketch, which is more natural, you'd have a better finished piece.

[Infinit]

I've done a drawover to point out the differences
main difference is that the sketch has a lot more curves then the finished piece

the facial expression was altered too => changes the whole mood
look for the differences I've marked and compare them in your pictures and look how they effect the "feel" (esp shoulders)

the flowers look quite flat in the finished one

[Kalango]

loved your coloring and lines

[robrov21]

Very beautiful piece, I love it.

I think that along with what's already been said, the lack of motion is also contributed by lack of contrast. If you look at your original side-by-side comparison, and squint, your finished piece flattens right out. All you see are the sunflower buds. The woman disapears into the background. Try pumping up your value range and shadowing.

[GoldSeven]

That's some very helpful thoughts - thanks a lot! I wouldn't want to change the colours - I wanted a more monochromatic feel - but especially what Chandan and Adarias said about Mucha and Infinit's overpaint really helped.

I'd really love to get the hang of constructing shapes, and not go by lines, but so far, it just doesn't work out. Painter doesn't run well on my comp; too little memory. And in PS, I just can't paint without a lineart to start from. I guess I'll just have to keep trying. And in the meantime, pay more attention to lineweigths!

[Infinit]

I'd like to see a new wip started from the original sketch
imo working with line is not bad cause lines just define shapes

work it Jenny! :)

[Mitze]

Not that this will be of any help but you can't really compare a pencil drawing with a fully render pic they are two different mediums. Like saying why dose my oil painting not look like a watercolour. I think you will have to treat your finished version as a totally different pic to the sketch. As to get similar feelings of loosen in the finished pic i think the above advice seems good to me. Told you this wouldn’t be of any help.

[GoldSeven]

Infinit: I don't think I'll rework that one - mostly because I have so little time for drawing at the moment that I don't want to warm up old projects, but get new stuff done. :) I also think I'll stick with lineart for the moment - and just pay more attention to why a sketch pose works ;)

Mitze: It does help - mostly because it means I need to find out what it is I like about a sketch, and transfer that into the finished version. Infinit's overpaint has shown me I didn't even notice how much I changed my initial idea. Need to start seeing more consciously.

[chaosrocks]

the sketch pose works because ofthe dynamic quality of the lines, which is lost in the painted version. All lines are not created equal and being able to see the touch of the human hand in ones art is not a bad thing. in the finish painting the background is part of what is losing the free flowing quality..it looks like wall paper. thus taking your breezy outdoor picture and puting it into a static environment.....
with respect
chaosrocks

[Vasper157]

IMO (this might have already been said. The sketch has this free-flowing line feel to is. Very fluid and warm. But the render has the tight sharp edges. It's lost much of that free-flow feel it had. Try loosening up things a bit.

[dindon]

If you want to get some ideas for how to paint really loose, take a look at Terry Madden.