Mermaid and stuff... (Nudity, be warned.)

[Anamya]

I am so scared of conceptart.org...

This is my first post. I really do want to improve... And I can't seem to get detailed critiques... so I'll try here. A few pieces to start off with:

http://fwrestling.com/host/kakashi/art/fire.jpg

http://fwrestling.com/host/kakashi/art/fallen.jpg

http://fwrestling.com/host/kakashi/art/mermaidbig.jpg

[Eric Gerhard]

Hi, Anamya!
Good stuff you have here. Good notions too.

Concerning the lights, I think its too difuse, for example, the ship scene with the mermaid. It's quite common under the sunlight to have volumetric lights, probably the projecting shade from the mermaid would be sharper and darker, as well as her body parts.

For the composition, the first two ones are fine for me, but the third could be more complex. I think there is no struggle in her. She could fight a little more, by bending her head backwards... I don't know...
I could tell you some rules of composition I studied at college this year to help you out, if you want it send me a message and I'll you reply more calmly.

And keep it up because your doing quite fine!

[Red Mimic]

Just dealing with compostion.

The mermaid seems a little cramped being so close to the edge and there is less to look at in the center. The rope is good, it leads up to her but then you follow the shapes right off the page into the corner.

That's all for now. Anatomy looks pretty good.

[Eric Gerhard]

Just dealing with compostion.

The mermaid seems a little cramped being so close to the edge and there is less to look at in the center. The rope is good, it leads up to her but then you follow the shapes right off the page into the corner.

That's all for now. Anatomy looks pretty good.
Yeah I agree with Red Mimic.

And the left mast is too much in the middle. It'd jammed the hole picture. Probably if you change its position, you would gave a better dynamic.

At college I have studied an art law called the "gold number" I don't know if this is correct translation, for I am brazillian, but I hope this model can help you out. Commonly we try to do things on the top-right side of the canvas, but of course there are many other solutions that can be done without doing exactly this way.

Take a look at the model I have attached.

If you have any doubts, send me a message.

Cheer up!

[White Rose]

for the first picture.. unless the girl is wearing implants. her boobs arent correct.. if you look at pictures of woman lying down in that position.. the shape of the breast is flattened out (like a dome) and position wise spread apart. (try to look for some reference that illustrate that pose) and you'll see what im talking about.

composition wise. the first picture.. : / doesnt do much for me. she just looks like she's floating in the air. is she on something. also her nose is a bit off.
i think if you change the composition..or put her on something.. it would give the picture a little more kick.

for the second one. you need to define the shadows and highlights a little but more.

3rd one...

try to create a small thumnail of the image. In this one..what is happening to that mermaid. i see her getting handled.. where is the guy. also the the picture looks very flat. there isnt a lot of defintion of a light source.

in all these pictures. you can defintly push a little more. mostly in the composition aspects. you want your picture to illustrate an idea..that doesnt needs words..

1. im a sexy woman laying on something......"just look at me"
2. yes im a sexy guy angel and what..
3. Mermaid : HELP ME HELP ME.. im being turned into tuna"

otherwise.. i like your style.. keep it up.

and her left arm...where is it...that is also hurting your picture as well. i

[trevor]

i would love to see these before they were colored (ie : initial drawing)
the color in all 3 peices is very flat
the characters lack any sort of weight to them or depth
i think the best advice i could really give is to take some life drawing classes or even get friends to pose for you (clothed if need be)
you have a good IDEA of anatomy and how it works but it really needs to be pushed by some real life reference so you can see where each part of the body folds into the next, how certain parts overlap and where the shadows should be to convey volume
i would definitely suggest doin less digital work or even trying to get your values and shading in your hand drawn pics before scanning and then just laying rough color over in digital
your off to a good start as an artist but you can improve most of the issues you seem to have here through drawing from life and lots of practice
i wont bother commenting on composition because..well the first 2 its inconsequential and in the mermaid it seems more like an afterthought
and as far as the digital stuff goes
try some brushes with a bit more texture to them when coloring
it adds to the apppeal of the peice if its not so smooth overall
and try different kinds of strokes on different things in your images
maybe more detail in the mermaid and more of a rough griity texture in the bg
if your using PS (which it looks like) try making some custom brushes
if its in painter try tools you havent used before
ive been using it for years and still try new things on a daily basis
good work and good luck
hope anything i said helped :)

[Anamya]

Firstly, I'd like to thank all of you for your help. The artists I normally mingle with online are novice or intermediate anime artists... and my art is "amazing" to them. You just can't get decent critique from anime artists, in my experience. I know my art needs years of work, because I look at the work of artists here, and I'm blown away every day.

I think my main problem is I tried for about five or six years to be an anime artist, so naturally I'm attuned to the big boobs, and bright, flat colors. I'm relatively new to trying realistic things. I have absolutely no experience in backgrounds or environments, and I'm used to being commissioned for character portraits and not scenes.

I'm horrible with placement in a scene. I've always been so focused on the character that I end up making that the focus, and lose the fluid "in the moment" kind of thing you have with a scene. Like, sure... I can come up with the idea for a scene but placing things dynamically is unthinkable for me. How can I learn to do that better?

I've noticed (from before and now definitely from your comments) that I have issues with making things more uhm... volumized? Making them pop? I'm horrible with darker pictures. I'll post an example after this paragraph. Basically I gave up in the middle because I wasn't achieving what I wanted. You can pretty much ignore the whole thing, because I just wanted to demonstrate how horrible I am with depth in a darker picture.

http://fwrestling.com/host/kakashi/art/naga.jpg

I had an entirely spiffy background scene to go with him as a background for the "character portrait" sort of thing... and I blocked it out in monochrome, but it was entirely too difficult after that point and I gave up. (Also, the black clothes were an escape from my horrid unability to make the texture of clothing look right.)

Does anyone have tutorials for cloth? That's one of my worst subjects... I never learned how to do cloth properly.

Red Mimic, Eric Gerhard: In reference to the mast, how might it be better placed? I basically stuck the masts in there so it'd be more recognizable as a boat. And apparently I still don't understand the whole "line of view" thing... I thought that the rope would carry down and then upward towards the hands... mrr, I'm so confused. I've never seen any text on that subject, does anyone have anything about that?

White Rose: In some small defense, I would have to say I was going for the implant look. With a girl laying down, the boobs usually look very unsexy, and fake boobs don't do that, solving the problem. Though there is some issue with the placement of them, for sure.

Though strangely, the crits that I did get from the anime artists, they were totally reversed, saying the mermaid's boobs were far too flat and saggy, and the implant look was proper. This, from the balloon boob drawing people.

And really, the first two were supposed to be just character portrait examples, as this is the kind of commissions I normally recieve. No real composition whatsoever. Maybe if I delved further into adding simple surroundings I'd get commissioned even more though. I need to work on that. Do you have any ideas of how I could have pushed the first two more? (Keeping in mind that for the commission a simple background is all that's allowed?)

Maybe I should just stop doing commissions for a few months and figure out what the hell I'm doing first.

And her left arm is supposed to be laying down beside her? I guess that didn't convey very well.

trevor: You're entirely right, I do need to draw from life more. I've always done digital work and I'm going to guess that's hurting me. My main problem is that having an infant, I have trouble getting time to draw as it is, let alone to go to a class.

As for the brushes... what kind of brushes might you suggest? (Yes, PS) How should I maneuver them? I'm sure you're not meaning just stamp them everywhere. Is there a place for useful artistry brushes to download?


And another question to everyone, since it did come up in the critiques... from a sketch, what order should you work out painting in the background, foreground, and character? I also have a problem with my art looking disjointed when I paint the background or character first. (As in the mermaid.)

Thanks again guys.

[White Rose]

big natural boobs...are unsexy *blinks*
oh well..everyone has there opinion..and beauty is inthe eye of the beholder..
hence... i highly recommend looking for reference on nude figures..different shapes and sizes. and explore... cause.. if you dont learn to practice different stuff..everything you do will be cookie cut... even though its something people will enjoy.... it will also get very boring...
so..
but also.. people who have implants.. and they have procedure done correctly.. will look passibly natural.
as i said again...get references....and you'll see what im talking about natural doesnt always mean saggy...
in regards to the picture.... they two has no defition of lights and darks..
they both look like they're hanging in space.
he is standing on the ground. where is the shadow on the placement of his feet. same thing for the girl.


as for the commission thing.. its up to you... its up to you what you really want to do.. and where you want to take your art.
do you want to improve..on your skills. its up to you...

if i were you, even before you color your next peice or even ink it... get it critiqued and see how much more you can push it....you want to share your imagination with the world.. right..
so give it your all :3 even if it means your learning new things..to enhance..

i do hope what im saying to you isnt gibberish

[Eric Gerhard]

Okay,

hmm... Did you understand that explanation about the "gold number"? Correctly it is the Golden Section or the Golden Mean, right?

Well, As I have said you got to find the Golden Section to get the best place where to place things.

Here is a good explanation on how to find the Golden Mean: http://www.timelessbydesign.org/Golden%20Section.htm

You will find that the left mast is too far from the Auron Section, got it? Maybe if you push it to the right it would be better.

And pay attetion, you don't need to find the Golden Mean only once. After you have found the GS of the whole canvas, you are able to find the GS of the found GS itself, got it? And this is an eternal spiral inwards. But this is quite important for you to find new ways to improve your domain over your own work.

Anything you want, I'll be here!

Keep up!

[Anamya]

That entire Auron and golden point thingy is confusing. I just don't get it. It tells you how to do the things but not how to apply them in use (or maybe I'm missing something.)

White Rose:
I'll make sure to put them on something next time. The background for the guy was done in like three minutes... basically useless, I probably should have left it out as it does have so many problems. He was originally "floating" on no background too. It's basically the same as when you'd do a character study or something? If I had put them on white, it may have been better to convey that.

As I can see, it does look crappy though. Next time I'll just make sure to do a simple actual background or something. :/

[trevor]

infant or not thats no excuse!
just kidding
draw your infant
ill follow up with what i mean about the brushes plus a few links for free(good) ones tomorrow afternoon when i have a bit more time

[Elwell]

Don't be scared...

Red-and-green floating upside-down girl:
The way you've drawn that shoulder, she looks like an amputee.
If she's supposed to be floating, she looks too stiff. If she's not, we need some sense of her body interacting with the surface that's supporting her, even if you arent going to show it. (Although why wouldn't you?)
There are tons and tons of little anatomy and proportion problems. Use refrerence. If you are using it, try to understand it better.
The problem with the breasts is not so much that they look like implants, but that they look like lumpy, uneven implants.

Pissed-off fey angel dude:
It's very, very flat. You have to mentally define and understand your light source. There's lots of good info here (http://itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm).
Reff the wings. You might even be able to get away with making them that tiny, but flight feathers are never hairy like that.
The feet/shoes are very awkwardly handled. Actually, all your hands and feet could use work.

Chicken-of-the-sea:
What exactly is going on? Her expression and body language are too ambiguous.
Your mermaid almost looks like a merdude with breasts drawn on his chest. Broad shoulders + long torso + angular features = sexual ambiguity. And the breasts are totally flat circles, with no sense of roundness, form, or gravity.
How do those hands connect to the offscreen character, and where is he in space? You often have to draw parts of the picture you don't see to make sure the parts you do work.
Reference everything. Unless you've been at sea your whole life, don't assume you know what a ship looks like. For instance, you would never have two masts close together like that, it just doesn't make any sense.
Your edges are all over the place in this one, hard where they should be soft and vice versa. Check out my edge post (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=51913) in the tutorials section (check out everything there, actually ;)).

Finally, don't worry if most of this doesn't sink in for a good long time. If you've got an infant your brain will be fried for at least a couple of years anyway.

[Red Mimic]

Does that golden dealie have anything to do with Thirds? I have heard about it a lot but never looked into it too much. I probably should since I am trying to get better at compostion.

There was a landscape tutorial on here somewhere (maybe the CA Wiki) but I can't find it anymore. It was very lengthy and informative about composition. If anyone could find it and link it I think you would find it very helpful Anamya.

That line of view thing is where someone would look at your picture and follow a sequence of focal points if there is such a sequence. You can mess around and make people look where you want to.

That rope leads you right into her torso, which you then follow upwards through her body and up the arms. It connects to the hands and shoots off the page because those hands are pointing to a corner.

I think the goal is to trap someone in a picture, I could be wrong though. I just comment on composition because I want someone to tell me I'm full of shit and then I can learn something from them.

[Anamya]

Elwell: Okay, yeah. That does make sense. And I'll be sure to pay more attention to my edges... in fact hard/soft edges never came to mind when drawing, sadly. Thanks for the pointing towards the tutorials... though that one lighting tutorial still baffles me. (I will read it again, I haven't read it in a few weeks.) No, I wasn't using reference but I suppose I should start.

Though when does the line get drawn between copying a picture and creating a work of art but referenced? On the particular other forums I hang out at, they don't even allow a picture if it's majorly referenced from a real person/ another drawing. It confuses me endlessly because how am I supposed to do it without reference?

Red Mimic: I think the "trap you in the picture" Statement kind of made it click a little better for me. Thanks!

[Anamya]

http://fwrestling.com/host/kakashi/art/fallenblueified.jpg
http://fwrestling.com/host/kakashi/art/fireyrefined.jpg

Working more on depth in my pictures... though it seems to make them more messy. >_<;; Are those any better or did I just do worse?

[White Rose]

:)
bravo ^_^.. i think you did better.. but the second picture..where is the girls other arm.. :).

and theres till is lack of light on her as well.. define where the light is comming from..then you'll be able to define her highlights

[Viridis]

There's a definite improvement between the first versions and these. Good job on that. Now some crits...

On the girl-- Her breasts might not fall out of her dress in that position, but in this picture they look like they're going to. They're too round, I think... they look pasted on rather than being part of her. I think they're also a little high. Her torso also looks odd-- her ribcage would be very curved, and then her stomach would be a bit flatter, I think.. right now the shape is very generalized. Her right ankle is a little thin as well.

Color-wise, I can see you've added some greens into the skin, but for even more depth, try adding those greens into her hair and her dress and the pantyhose, as well as maybe adding some blues and purples to the reds, and adding red into the background. The colors don't even have to be that noticeable-- a very low saturated color, at 8-15% opacity, can really have a big effect.

For the guy-- you've got a good start with putting some of the light blues from the background reflecting on his skin and hair. Realize that the blue would also reflect on his wings, perhaps highlighting on individual feathers. His skintone looks pretty good, although you could use some darker darks in the shadows to make them pop more (between his arms and his body). His pants are very flat; there's hardly any folds at all. Even if you just use the light blue to add a few highlights to some folds, that will give it depth and form.

[OBX]

Umm nice paintings. i wish i had an eye to say anything about color. interesting peices. ur colors and choices are pretty good imo imo. try desaturating a bit in areas of low light. Try and simplify things into shapes. work with 3 values to get a better depth read. parts of the paintings just seem a lil to flat. find a bright and black and a medium. drop ur silloutte or general idea down in the medium value. then start to drop in the darker valued shapes. then the light valued shapes. pull back off the airbrush and feathered eadges a lil, over abuse of that can cause the old movie glamour shot look thats going on in the mermaid. leave in some harder edges here and there. also use some stronger cast shadows. really try and work that light source. think of ur darks as strong descriptive words in a paper that u use to draw attention too. they can aslo be used to frame the piece. speaking of frames. they seem a lil to cut out. something photographers look for is natural objects that frame the picture for the, and lock the viewers eye. use the same tool. try and angle ur drawings, crop them with slight angles or crop them to describe more action. like y are those hands grabing the mermaid? y is that robe going down to her? to lead the eye, mabey, but that seems to be its only purpose. mabey u could loosely wrap the rope around her, and use it to describe more of her form, if the rope wraps around here it will give a clearer concept of from around here midsection.

ok here u go in a less condensed form.

1. value range, start out with a dark medium and light value, rely on pressure and hatchign for gradients rather than airbrush.

2. find ur core shadows

3. use elements in the piece to ur advantage. its part of the artistic brain.

4. some highlights here and there will add a lot to the from of the characters.

5. cast shadows are needed to make areas pop. and cos seperation. they also plant the character or object into the enviroment.

6. watch ur crop. watch ur frame, the actual frame of the canvas and the internal frame of the painting. one is for finding the best descriptive point. and the other is for locking in the viewers eye, and letting it dance on the painting.

7. play with ur edges. not so much blending.

8. and play with ur saturation and color theory more.



keep up the hard work, remember it doesnt happen over night. but try and take something away with ever sketch and peice u do. i hope i made sense. peace.