Tomb Raider concept art

[darkcult]

Tomb Raider/ new game/ concept design!
:barf:

http://www.eidosinteractive.co.uk/gss/trangel/concept/06.jpg

Can you belive this shit? ha ha

http://www.eidosinteractive.co.uk/gss/trangel/home.html

ANY COMMENTS?

:rolleyes:http://www.eidosinteractive.co.uk/gss/trangel/concept/04.jpg

[RONIN]

SO COOL! The next game must be "Laura Croft and the Floodwater Peasants"

[jmascho]

reinventing the farmer?

[egerie]

what's up with eidos ?? Did they pick the first drawings they found in the recycling bin or what ? I'm sure they can do better....

[fell]

looks like the coders are more busy then i thought.

[nova]

he's waiting for his medicine at the mental hospital.

[Landmate]

here are a couple from Morrowind III:


http://www.morrowind.de/conceptart/characters/sshot13.jpg

http://www.morrowind.de/conceptart/items/sshot20.jpg


hard to believe these are professional, along with the tombraider and lucasarts stuff.

[Grooveholmes]

:rant:
:doh:

[incognito]

How is it hard to believe that they are proffesional? They look good to me. Seems like they are cranking out a new tomb raider every year.

[MrSmith]

many game companies dont have dedicated concept artists, but rather the modelers themselves do most of the concept art. and since they are also the ones modeling the image, they dont have to worry about if it looks good or not, just that all the components are there and that they have something to start with. plus you have to do tons of these sketches every day, and even the best artists' quality will suffer. just what i hear.



concept art in video games doesnt have to look pretty, it just has to serve its purpose.

[egerie]

that's no excuse to explain what landmate posted. *shrug*

[Fipse]

I´m not sure what the problem is. I don´t know completely how conceptart in the gameindustry works but I have the feeling that it´s quite the same as working in the advertisment industry (as I`m doing myself). I still belong to the generation that has been drawing Layouts with markers and scalpel and for a good layout you don´t had to be a good artist (if someone remembers the times - it was even before Windows ;)). This means if an Art Director could make his idea clear the finelayouter could do "better" drawings for a presentation or the prepress-people could do their job. One of the best AD´s I had nearly couldn´t draw a straight line but the results have been great.

I think it´s the same here. E.g. the morrowwind stuff is detailed and exact enough that a 3D-modeller can work on it or an illustrator can do a worked out illustration. As I see it conceptart is often a "serving" form of art, giving the production people (be it movies, games or else) just food for their work. Often this means it isn´t really pleasant for people to watch if the artist is mediocre - even if the ideas, designs and concepts are good. As I remember my LOTR-DVD´s the art shown there hasn´t by no means always the quality I may imagine from John Howe. There was a lot mediocre stuff but that was important to find the ways for the final design.

What I don´t understand from a marketing point of view is why concepts like these are published in the internet. These aren´t figureheads for the companies even if they may be important for the production.

Fipse

[MGH]

It's hard to make a real critique of these pieces without knowing the conditions they were created under. Fipse is right about the ad biz and I think this is a trap I've fallen into and seen others fall into on this forum as far as the 'presentation of an IDEA'.
Having said that IF these were done by a professional artist/illustrator for some sort of final presentation than I would have expected the draftsmanship to be of a bit higher level, even if time was a factor. That's especially true of the LucasArts stuff as I think that George has more than enough cash from Star Wars toys to afford good artists.

[Tedsuo]

I don't know what you guys are compaining about. When I see stuff like that, it gives me hope for my future in the industry. :D


But in their defense, has anyone played Morrowind? I have to agree with Fipse: If the final game is good, then those sketches must have served there purpose. Maybe they just hung them on the fridge in the breakroom. You know, for inspiration.

[MGH]

Actually. I don't think it's fair to critique this stuff at all. Whoever did the work, did not put it up here willingly.
I know there's a lot of 'Hey the mods should do this...' going on right now but posting somebody else's work without their knowledge and cutting it up is a tad catty in my books.

[Grooveholmes]

Yeah but the companies released these images to the public to sale thier game. As a consumer that surely doesnt make me want to rush out and buy the game..

[MGH]

I agree with you to a point Grooveholmes as I didn't know they'd been published (I just went to the link).
Still, it's a slippery slope.

[Muttonhead]

Also remember that oftentimes, game companies will have their modelers do the concept art, and even though their models may look amazing, the concept art might be drawn in such a way that it is just enough detail or description for that same person to model from. I don't think these drawings are that terrible, but I also don't think it is neccessary for them to be masterpieces either, especially given their function.

Look at the drawings of a lot of costume designers: sometimes the anatomy is a little funky, or the rendering may not be super tight, but that does not mean that the costume itself won't turn out to be worthy of an Oscar nomination...

-Muttonhead

[darkcult]

For god's sake on TR site even fan art looks better than this cr*p

[gasmask]

Why do you care what the art looks like as long as the final product is good? Mr. smith is right, there arent a whole lot of concept artists that are able to pump out masterpieces everytime, just like smith said, they only push something to what they need it to be, its not like they are making a comic here or doing a piece for a gallery, im sure the people that did that crappy art are probably not even concept artists. Im sure companies have modelars do concept art, even nathan campbell told me that that is very common in the game industry. But i do agree, this art is crappy, but who cares.

[Fipse]

In the "Definition of Conceptart" Thread there was a link to a really good discussion on the Conceptdesign-Forum that helped me really understand what Conceptart meant. Maybe this is helping you with the pictures here shown, too.

http://www.conceptdesignforum.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1006&

And I think in the meantime the advertisment industry and the Conceptart-scene are quite the same. Just other medium.
We Ad-people use QuarkXpress, the COnceptartists Painter :D.

Fipse
Seeing the light

[egerie]

So time seems to be an argument ? Sorry but even a 10 mins sketch from an artist that really puts themselves in a design can be awesome. Concept art should scream "I CARE !!!" from the hand that put it in the daylight.

[darkcult]

gasmask:Why do you care what the art looks like as long as the final product is good? Mr. smith is right, there arent a whole lot of concept artists that are able to pump out masterpieces everytime, just like smith said, they only push something to what they need it to be, its not like they are making a comic here or doing a piece for a gallery, im sure the people

hhmmm...what is the name of these forums... Ah ha CONCEPT ART!... and what are we all tryng to do here... ah you are right, why do I care... let's all be crap. crap is cool.

sweet.


.................................................. ...............
Jesus is coming!!!
*quick,look busy*

[gasmask]

I really dont think alot of you even know what concept art is. Its not about a pretty picture, look up in the dictionary, what does concept mean? an idea, what is art? creating that idea, do those pictures carry across the idea? yes they do and it all goes into the final product. Dont worry about what some other artist work looks like, worry about yourself, obviously they are in the industry for a reason and they must be good at something if they are working on something like tomb raider.

[Grooveholmes]

Well, i can't completely agree. That 2nd Morrowind III pic that was posted is SO crappily done in my opinion that for me as a modeller it would raise more questions than it answers as to what needed to be done. When a concept artist can't draw AT LEAST well enough to even convey what thier idea is it does nothing but make the job harder for everyone else down the line. Now the 3d artist is going to have to fill in the holes that the concepter left empty. Which will cause more headaches for the "TEAM" as a whole and more time for the 3d guys, and texturers to try and figure out what the drawing is supposed to represent, instead of the art speaking for itself and being a guide that leads them in what they need to do for the project.

[Tedsuo]

Hehe, no way that second pic is awesome. What I really can't understand is why Bethesda would publish it. Could you imagine walking into the office one day and the boss saying "Hey, remember that crappy two minute sketch you did a while back? Yeah, we're showing it to everyone." Jesus, I'd be horrified.

Hehe, something's wrong with animated gifs on this computer. Egerie and Groove are dancing like madmen on crack, and Darkcult's eyes are flashing to a disco beat.

[Lono]

Alright now,,, there is a HUGE difference between having "mediocre" or "just functional" concept art and having
well thought out and well rendered designes.

i really dont feel right picking on this anonamous artists work, but i feel its neccesary to make this very important point.

look at the last sketch of the dude in the clumpy armor.
it conveys neither inventive or appealing design, nor functionality, nor expressive form,, and the rendering is almost intangable.
now granted, this may be a "jack of all trades" modeler sketch, but if that is the case they could have benifited greatly by bringing on a real concept artist if they really wanted there characters to look good. ive played morrow wind, and i thought the character design was weak and cliche,, and the models didnt look too great,, even for a massivly multiplayer game.

thats basically the bottom line here. quality concept art equals quality characters. not because the drawing looks pretty but because the design is stronger, more creative, and
easily readable to other people down the creative line like modelers and skinners.

and if yous looking for a job in the industry, dont expect to turn any heads by producing the bare minimum..
believe me,, there is a sea of reasonable talented and experienced artists out there and if you want to stand out you need to push yourself to no end.

-Lono

[otis]

I know why their concept art is below substandards:

They probably didn't want to pay an artist to do the work, so they did it in-house or paid off some amature with a copy of the video game,..or better yet collected some "fan art" and used that instead!! LOL!!

Once again, ...this is what happens when companies don't want to pay for the good talent out there.

Sorry to say it guys, but there are too many peeps who want to do concept art, inturn, making jobs harder to find, lower paying, and worst of all lowering the standards for concept art.

[Grooveholmes]

.

[Fipse]

Hey Otis,

as I told before ... the ads and Conceptart seem to have the same problems ... I´m feeling more and more home with the conceptart. Not that this is making anything better :rolleyes:

Fipse

[otis]

Good thread,,,

But ONE important aspect and irony about concept art from what I have learned, is this:

We conceptualize, design, and vision the "look" "feel" and direction of a movie, video game, car, etc. But does anyone realize HOW valuable this skill is?? Many artists don't, and that's why companies make mucho dinero off of us. It makes me sick to my stomach. How many artists (besides the few at Disney) do you think get paid well enough or share in any royalties for the contributions they make to their company? Hardly any,...why?? Becuase most artists, especially the young ones don't care, and just want their work to be validated in some movie or game.

I have had a few friends work at ILM and the attitdue they get from Lucas is:
"you are working 70 hour work weeks, and you should feel privialged to work here". WTF? I don't care WHO your boss is, they should not throw that kind of attiude at ANY employee.

I hope we all, newbies and proffessionals raise our standards and principals to these companies. There is no union or gov't body out there that can protect us artists from ourselves. We have to all demand more recognition for what we do. :ranting:

[Erik]

Probably because most games are either still made by tech guys that 'need some images for our new cool blitz-engine' and don't really care what they look like or by marketing guys that say 'well, who cares if it sucks, it's Tomb Raider and it'll sell anyway'.

...

[Evil_Dan]

Imo concept designs should inspire everyone involved in the project. Doesn't matter if they are quick sketches or elaborate renderings. A crappy drawing will rear it's ugly head no matter how good the modeler is.

[darkcult]

...........................
And that’s why some of the final products are sh*t.
(" .. but they have an excellent gameplay… "--- Yeah right!)

Cheep labour = crappy game