Tools for perspective drawing in 2D-painting apps ?

[Micha_1138]

HI folks,

I have been wondering for quite some time why there are (afaik !) no really advanced tools inside 2d-picture manipulation apps for creating perspective drawings.

I know that Pshop has a 3D-grid tool (which is great looking, but I work with Photopaint and don´t intend to buy Pshop), but that is about it regarding supporting perspective drawings.

I usually use a 3d app to get a scene blocked out, and then paint over it. Sometimes a bit complicated, since I really block the things out very roughly, so from time to time I have to place a new line somewhere (duh ! ;) ).

Since you can only approximate the direction of the vanishing point,I thought there has to be something that helps an artist work on 3d images in a 2d app.

For example, classically constructed perspective drawings always have the v-points outside the pic. Making the work area in i.e. ppaint larger than the actual pic kind of eats away a big amount of memory, so I don´t think that working this way is very popular.

So, anyone have other ideas/knows about an app specific solution for this little problem ?

Thanks,
Michael

Any hints ?

[CaneHoyer]

2D isn't 3D, so very filter in Photoshop trying to affect an image like 3D is imperfect!

But by the way, why don't you do a rough sketch about your preferred vanishing point with perspective lines, save this picture and add it in your 3D scene as a background???

How do you think 3D workers create thing out of scribbles???
They add the scribbles in their scenery and build theri 3D object on it.

[Micha_1138]

Hey Cane, thanks for the reply.

2D isn't 3D, so very filter in Photoshop trying to affect an image like 3D is imperfect!


I know that quite well, since I´ve been doing 3D and 2D-stuff for quite a while now. I haven´t been looking for "filters" or tools like the perspective deformation tool.

But by the way, why don't you do a rough sketch about your preferred vanishing point with perspective lines, save this picture and add it in your 3D scene as a background???


Been there, done that ;) The thing is, I find it kind of complicated and time consuming not to be able to work like I am used to when doing stuff the traditional way.

For example, I can´t set a v-point outside an image in Pshop or Photopaint, since my workspace is constrained to the actual image size.
So a tool that would
a) let me set v-points outside the image area
b) would help me draw my perspective lines by setting a starting point, and line the end point and hence the drawn line up to the vanishing point

would be more than helpful.

It would be like in the old days where you´d have a nail that you´d put your ruler against to get the alignments done correctly.


How do you think 3D workers create thing out of scribbles???
They add the scribbles in their scenery and build theri 3D object on it.

And the 2d-workers do it vice versa, building rough 3d scenery in their 3d apps, import those images and draw over them.

Still, my question is standing, I am not looking for workaorunds, but for actual tools giving me a functionality of traditional rulers for creating a perspective drawing. And I can´t believe that something like that hasn´t been invented or at least has been asked for in the past.

Thanks,
Michael

[CaneHoyer]

For example, I can´t set a v-point outside an image in Pshop or Photopaint, since my workspace is constrained to the actual image size.
So a tool that would
a) let me set v-points outside the image area


You can set a vanishing point, by just putting 2 artificial lines (german: Hilfslinie) outside your image area. 1 hor. and 1 vert. thats it!
then just align to them to draw your perspective lines, so you got your v-point.
You can put art. lines outside the working area whereever you want to.

[Micha_1138]

Cane,

I am more than ashamed that I didn´t find this out before all by myself. This is what you get when you only go the DIY-teaching route, I guess ;)

Thanks for the great tip !

But still, if I could draw lines by first setting one point and then having a temporary line showing up with a yet to be determined endpoint, it would elminate the need to erase waste lines or construction lines. Yes, I could still leave them on a separate layer and draw over them, but then I´d lose the benefits of NOT having to work in a traditional medium ;)

Anyway, I´ll get started using the "crosshair"-method (now with automatic horizon line ! ;) ) and see how far I can get with that, but it can´t be worse than what I do with the traditional method :P

If there is a tool out there, I am sure that someone will post here.

Thanks again !

Michael

P.S.: Cane, really awesome artwork !!!

[Jabo]

Unfortunately Photoshop doesn't support rotated guidelines, as far as I know. Only Illustrator does, and it does a good job with that.

Anyway, as Cane pointed out, just press F and you'll be in a viewmode that fits best for working on images for longer periods of time. Of course, you won't be able to see the guidlines you do with the line-tool. That's why Photoshop is first and foremost a graphic design program, not a paintprogram.

[Micha_1138]

Hey folks,

I just came up with a simple method to have all the ruler tools I need. The pros may forgive my noobish approach and questions regarding this topic, since the solution is so stupidly simple.

I first set my v-points with the rulers.
Next, I create one straight path spline that has its starting point snapped to one vanishing point.
If I need hypercorrectly placed straight lines, I simply choose "draw along path" or the application specific command (I am working in photopaint mainly, but this should apply in similar ways to pshop, blender, etc.).

The path spline is my ruler, I can change it whenever I want, still aligned towards the v-point, since I only have to move the end point, and its so darn flexible.

I guess this is just common knowledge with all the pros out there, but for the noobs that don´t want to rely on traditional sketching methods, my newly found insight might be helpful.

Thanks for all the input, Cane really fuelled my creativity with simply pointing out how to construct vanishing points.

Michael

*still embarassed about his narrow mindedness and stupidity*

[CaneHoyer]

So if you like to work with path lines, then you can create your whole building with a path.

Select the brush, color, thickness.

Go to the path palette and click in the icon fill path with brush.

Thats it, all the path lines in the actual path window will be filled with the actual brush.

You can also set as many paths you like, so you can fill them all with different brush lines.

Also you can click the icon right to the first one, so you get a selection of the actual path lines (if the path is closed!).
So you can use the selection to paint, color, shade for example the different planes of a building...

[jfrancis]

Here's a suggestion I put together on how to set your vanishing points outside the image area...

http://www.digitalartform.com/archives/images/distantVP9.jpg

http://www.digitalartform.com/archives/2005/07/vanishing_point.html

[jfrancis]

Micha --

I just read your post about paths. That's not too bad! I hadn't considered that.

My suggestion above involves rotating layers and might be a faster workflow for you.

Ideally Adobe should address this with a better tool.

...and for my own method, the new "smart objects" might be a good update, so that the line doesn't degrade with each successive rotation.

[Undomiel]

I've started looking at Artweaver (http://www.artweaver.de/) which just recently released version 0.4. It includes a perspective grid tool which seems to have a bit of potential though I haven't evaluated it completely yet. It could be a useful way of quickly setting up your perspective drawing before taking it back into Photoshop. Unfortunately Artweaver doesn't support Photoshop's format so going back and forth between the two isn't exactly easy but it is still workable.