Anime and Manga?

[Tomato]

I wanna hear your views on it, whether you like it, hate it etc. I'm an avid manga artist but i always get the funny feeling that my work doesn't belong here on CA. I know i have many areas in which to improve in, but my main worry is that people don't like it...

Is it just me being weird or am I right? Do people hate manga?

[corky13]

if its good , high quality Manga , people will like it , if its bad or "deviantart" manga ( ;) ) people won`t. Tho` this isn`t a Manga-Anime forum so peoples expectations are high , especiallym with all those half-ass wannabe mangakas out there :(

[Tomato]

Mangakas? what on earth are those? I've checked out Deviantart (*sprays himself with disinfectant*) and i'm pretty sure to say that people will like my manga, as soon as i start to work on more poses and anatomy. But thats good news to hear that people do like it, because i didn't really wanna change my entire style to something that people will like :P

[corky13]

mangaka is the asian term for an artist who draws mangas and/or anime
Hmmm...did you start drawing with mangas ? If yes than you should leave it for a while and try to work naturalistc , do some life/cast-drawings and studies etc. , after that you can go back to mangaesk art and you will see a huge improvement in case of speed , anatomical correctness and dynamik of your stuff ;) If you have already done this...well forget what ive said ;)

[Fellah.]

I hate bad manga.

[Tomato]

Well yeah, i did draw manga straight for about 4 years, then i realised how bad at drawing the human form i was, so i stopped and started to draw from life afterwards and when i went back to manga the other day, i noticed a huge improvement in my works, which made me smile. I'm no where near the best manga artist here, so i have a lot more work to do. I might keep doing the life drawing for a while longer and see where that gets me :)

Hi Fellah!!!!! :P I hope you won't hate my mangas :( I'll be posting some soon. Keep you eye open in the WIP's section :D

[Sept13]

Manga is just such a trend atm, and trends tend to create bad average quality. Young manda-artists tend to think manga-style is an easy step to good pictures and avoid real life studies.

Gezstar is for example one high quality manga artist here.
Geztar's best of ca (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=68623)

[Qitsune]

For some reason, looking at bad life drawings isn't as painful as looking at bad manga. Not sure why...

[Tomato]

So no one really enjoys bad manga, but the good stuff is ok, right? Hmm...

[Tomato]

Look at my avatar! Is that good or bad manga?

[Helzon]

http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56594
I think this thread had a pretty fair discussion about things.
Must confess I didn't read it all..but perhaps it could help.

[davi]

yes, its bad manga.

why is it bad? Because the fact is anime is such a pre;packaged art style that if you make a few lines wrong it comes out wrong. Anime artists rarely have a chance to push their style of work to new levels; because of this most is hardly recognizable to the artist's personal style. If you cant tell the difference between an artists style and work then we probably dont want to see it, because we have probably seen it before.

there are alot of anime artists on this forum the join here and bring up Jason Chan and some of the high viewed anime/manga influenced artists on the site.

You have a point that it can be accomplished, but they are far and in between. They have hoaned(sp?) their craft into something unique allowing them to stand out in the crowd.

CA isn't a play for anime artists, but i wouldn't say we discourage them. What we discourage and often attack are artists who don't come to the table with something unique and never challenge themselves to get past a mundane comfort level.

if you pick up the books ROBOT volume 1 2 and 3 by Range Murata, you will see the type of artwork I'm referring to as unique.

if you plan on drawing sephiroth image 9125798053179082 leave.
if you plan on putting forth and honest effort into improving yourself past your limits, please post.

[Magic Man]

I wanna hear your views on it, whether you like it, hate it etc. I'm an avid manga artist but i always get the funny feeling that my work doesn't belong here on CA. I know i have many areas in which to improve in, but my main worry is that people don't like it...

Is it just me being weird or am I right? Do people hate manga?

Why would you change your style just because a large number of people at a forum don't like it?

If you enjoy drawing in the typical anime/manga style, so be it, there is plenty of market for it if you're looking for a financial reason (albeit you need to be good, but tell me a field that pays well for shit work), and if not and you undertake it purely for a enjoyment reason, then don't change - but this forum is likely not for you and you probably won't find it much fun.

People here don't have a problem with anime, they have a problem with bad art...it just so happens that most of the poor artists have a love affair with anime and manga which makes the style an easy target for lambasting.

[Fellah.]

Hi dude. A bit short minded i was hehe. One of my favorite artist is Masamune Shirow. Thats good stuff8) I think the problem with manga is alot of beginners use manga as a shortcut to drawing and it shows almost everytime. There is no shortcut IMO. And when you gently mention this to a mangadude he goes "Wtf do you mean? This is my style!":D But its not - its just coping something that looks easy. You need to study a lot of different stuff before going into manga - this way your experience as an artist will give you an uniqe mangastyle. Its all about taking the art further.
Sorry about my shitty english - its hot as hell.
Looking forward to seeing your stuff, dude and im sure i will not hate it!

Edit:wow Davi and MM are fast!

[Tomato]

Ok, thats cleared up a lot of things for me :) But i still think its interesting to hear everyones views on the matter. I've been drawing all my life, i started to draw manga 4 years ago and seriously got into drawing manga 1 year ago. For the past 4-5 months, i've been life drawing, reading anatomy books and watching people to see how the muscles work and where they are. I hope to be able to incorporate all this into my next piece of work and create something groovy that i can proudly show off here on CA. But i'll always be a manga artist. Its in my blood. I guess it all just rolls back to what i said earlier about me being worried that people just don't like the style... but since anime and manga has become rather popular these days (what with all the cartoons on TV and comic books) i guess its not so bad.

Where as many of you artists our there can create your own magnificent pieces of work (Fellah, for example) i'm sure you didn't get that way over night, and we all started off in the same boat to begin with. All i gotta do is practise and practise and draw and draw and study and study and then one day i could draw something that i could call art :P I envy all you brilliant artists out there. Just gimme a few years. I'll be good soom :)

[Tomato]

People here don't have a problem with anime, they have a problem with bad art...it just so happens that most of the poor artists have a love affair with anime and manga which makes the style an easy target for lambasting.

Ahhh i see now! That makes a lot of sense! Ok, thanks Magic Man, thats helped a load! I won't be changing my style! I adore to draw in manga and its what i've enjoyed doing for the past 4 years. I've been listeing ot crits that have been fired in my direction here on CA and i've learnt from my mistakes, but i am far away from perfect! I do plan to do into the art industry with my manga as my main weapon, but i got university to get out the way first, so that'll greatly help with my illsutration and life drawings :)

Fellah! Thanks man! Thats given me so much inspirtaion! Hearing you say that you might not hate my manga, is a real confidence booster! I agree with you. Masamune Shirow is a fantastic manga artists. He draws females rather well, such as Ghost in the Shell, but i also like the work done by Akira Toriyama (Dragonball Z, Chrono Trigger (the game) Dragon Quest 8 (the game)). He is the style i used to draw in before i started to adapt my own style, and mixing it with life drawing. I have to admit, i didn't like copying Akira Toriyama's work after realising that i wasn't getting any better. Thats around the time i started college and got some useful info from my life drawing teacher, who still haunts me today, saying, "stop drawing manga and draw from life!!" lol. :P I'm glad i listened to him

[corky13]

hehe :)
hmmm....ever looked at Hiroaki Samuras work ? (Blade of the Immortal) ?

[Tomato]

No i haven't. is s/he on CA or can i find him/her on google?

[corky13]

you can find the work of Hiroaki Samura of course with google ;)
here are some samples
http://www.normasabadell.com/scan/espada_inmortal_9.jpg

http://www.lambiek.net/artists/s/samura_hiroaki.htm

and my favourite piece..sadly its such a small scan :(
http://www.abruzzofumetto.it/abruzzoimmagini/immortale2web.jpg

[Tomato]

Thats pretty interesting. what media did he use to draw them?

[Mirana]

Hm, the art in your icon isn't "manga," it's a character concept design... Whatever.

Samura switches between plain pencil hatching and inks. His covers (and some interior art) will have watercolor.

I have to disagree that anime/manga style is a pre-packaged style with little room for diversity. You could say that about many styles--including concept art--of which a lot of artists on this site subscribe to a similar style. This doesn't mean that concept art, manga art, or any other art doesn't have a prevalent style supplemented by plenty of original interpretations. :)

[Scubasteve]

I agree with what Davi and some of the others have said. I do like your Avatar though and wouldn't mind seeing your work. Welcome to the forum. If you've picked up bad habits learning to draw anime this fourm is a good resource for feedback to get rid of those problems. BE HEALED!!!! ((Smacks forehead))

[White Rose]

hmm.. i say..do what you love to do :3
if you wanna draw anime go for it..
but remeber..
^^ i remeber this in the loomis book.
anime... is just a style.. and style.. changes. :3 as often as we change our own underwear.
the only thing that matters.
is that the artists foundations are solid. and having good foundations in art.. is always something that is expressed in this forum.
so yeah..post your stuff..go crazy..
but dont forget to explore new things... :3 cause we're all visual scientists.. its our job to step into the unknown :3
good luck to you

[Jabo]

Can't stand it. Really. I mean that typical manga stuff. Anime is defined as "japanese animated film". So there's Ghost In The Shell, Mononoke, Chihiro and Jin Roh (love this one). But that's the exception (at least on the european/us-market). Mostly it's stuff like big eyes, spikey reflecting hair and no noses. And that's shit. IMO.

[egerie]

I actually like manga. Not ALL of it, but sometimes, you know, I can pick up a manga. Now that said, I definately feel the URGE to BITCHSLAP some sense into people that pounce the net with their lookatmymangaart eee ''^_^::!!n_n_o_O' GRAH!! The usual complete lack of understanding behind the necessities and origin of the style is like an insult to armies of slaving mangakas (and bulimic readers) out there. But the source of my aggravation comes from the fact that they don't even realise that they HURT their artistic abilities by throwing all that magic powder crap in their face like crystal queens. Turns me into Mrs Hide and want to give them much tough love.

Now as for anime, I can enjoy some of them but not all. The style(s) by itself is fine, the content is another story (ahaha!).

So in a nutshell, that's my very emotional view on it.

[walnut]

The way i see it, the best manga/anime art never looks much like what manga/anime art is supposed to look like. Like Hyung Tae Kim, Shirow, Myazaki for instance. Remember this if you wanna get good: always think outside the box. Especially with a cookiecutter paradise like manga style.

[Snuggles]

I love a lot of it, I ain't gonna lie. Everybody can spit on me if they like, but I actually like a lot of Tetsuya Nomura's designs, too. ;) But, yeah, like's been said...people who just completely ignore the entirety of what composes ART to just sit there and doodle the same crying samurai devil angel thing over and over are just an incredible eye sore. Art is something that comes from within, so you've got to do what you love to do and go for it. But you also have to work hard if you want to improve. So do the anime/manga style on the side, keep yourself entertained, but keep studying and working on life drawings. Try looking at some Western artists and finding styles you might like by them, as well.

Above all, do what you love to do. Right now that may be manga, and it may never change. Or you could begin to grow something different as you get older. Whatever you want to do. It's your responsibility to yourself as an artist not only to ENJOY yourself, but also to live up to your potential!

[mambo]

I have the entire blade series and find it to be amazing. Generally speaking I prefer art more along the lines of the Golden Age of American illustration.
Rockwell, Gibson, Dorne, JC Lyendecker.... definitely not cartoonish. I also like Frazetta, Kaluta and Jones. All of them realy strong on the ability to render the human anatomy accurately and then push it with their own style.

I don't find that very often in manga work... manga reminds me of the American comic scene where they have these dumb looking chic's that have terrible proportions... basically a poor exscuse for teenage boys to look at a set of tits and not get smacked. Vapid. Not that there aren't guys doing good rendering in the comic scene... but there were several titles where I though...'Who draws this crap?!' I'm sure... manga being the industry it is and having the costs and profit margins it does has little time for artists who want to express themselves to the best of their ability. I dunno... food for thought anyhow.

I did find some of the panel work in the Blade series to be interesting and living in Asia I can understand where he is coming from with his brush work. I also found that some of the fight sequences in Blade to be quite well done... seemingly very influenced by Kurosawa/samurai type films.

[Gory]

I'm a big fan of comics in general, and a lot of Japanese comics happen to fall in there. Some of the stuff I like is admittedly VERY lame, but I kind of like it for that reason. (a lot of Shounen stuff, sue me. Whatever)

However the biggest problem I've always had with Japanese comics is that they force themselves into a style that's expected of them. As a result, you get a pretty cut and dry style with very little variation. It makes it that much harder to bring something original to the table.

It's not like I can blame the Japanese, I think it's just their education system that reinforces this kind of work. I'm half Korean and my Korean cousin is currently going to school in America. From what I've learned about Korean education (which is almost exactly similar to Japanese) is it kills any chances for creativity or the actual desire to learn. These guys are at school all day, from when they wake up til they go to bed. America's education may be messed up, but at least we don't squelch motivation and individuality.

My view on things has always been to just draw and paint, and whatever style you may develop will come naturally.

Blade of the Immortal was already mentioned, that's one solid manga. Akira (the manga) has always been a favorite of mine. Berserk is another great one. Death Note was neat, but a little long. Although I really don't have any prejudice against any form of comic book or graphic novel. I read Asian, American, and European comics and enjoy them all. I enjoy the comics in the newspaper, too.

[Icon]

Hmmm. I think I enjoy manga mainly for stories, hardly for art. But there are some amazing artists out there that actually push themselves in their art! So many of them have been mentioned already, Shirow(amaaazing robot design!!!), Hiroaki Samura(his figures are beautiful, period.), Miyazaki(his background are incredible), Andy Seto (crouching tiger hidden dragon comics). These people take the typical style of manga, but have worked so hard at it, they have trained themselves in art with such dedication , that they created their own unique way of making manga. Just like anybody here in concept art works hard at life drawing, or concepts that they create their own unique way of making it!

I understand the type of artist most people on CA hate, because you can find these in any anime convention or DA. It's the wishy washy "I don't need to learn about art because I already have a perfect 10 step way of making a magical anime girl" artist! The ones that will settle for horrid art just because everyone else is doing it too! There's a million and one of these artist in my school, and they all dream of working in Japan for a living. pfft! They are no better than a crappy abstract painter, who does a dot in the middle of a canvas just to make some money!

also real manga artist work extremely hard. The typical Japanese worker works 10 to 12 hours a day, manga artist work even harder to meet up with crazy deadlines. They are just as commendable as any other.

Another thing to consider, is if the focus is on story not art....for example Naoki Urasawa draws manga of very old fashion, but his stories are amazing!! Monster and 20th century boys are by far the best stories I have ever read! but if I would have not read these just for the art, I would have really missed out.

besides this is the age old battle between what one person thinks is good, vs. what another person thinks is bad. It's the same as abstract vs. academic. You just can't say one thing is better than the other because it's all a matter of taste. Of course its obvious shitty anime art exists, but also shitty American comic art, concept art and illustrations exist too! Just try not too judge so harshly that you'll find yourself missing out on a chance to enrich yourself. :p

john: just remember, having your own style is fine, just remember every artist must go through the fundamentals, it's like a musician not knowing chords! Silly, but it's the same for artist. I started out with manga too! It's a style I enjoy to draw on the occasion! Just improve as an artist whole, learn anatomy , learn composition and learn color. who cares what style you use, as long as you enjoy it . :)

[Elwell]

Hmmm. I think I enjoy manga mainly for stories, hardly for art.
This is a very important point. The conventions of manga grew up because it is art in service to story. The artwork has to be produced very quicky, and is meant to be comprehended very quickly as well, so you have a stock collection of character types, facial expressions, etc. But, when you remove those conventions from a storytelling context they tend to fall apart. 99% of the manga kiddies out there are totally uninterested in narrative, it's just endless pinups of "my character."

[2b BOY]

I got into Manga/Anime due to the variety. My first Anime ever was Cowboy Bebop, the science fiction, the story, the drama it was !@#$ing awesome!*clears throat*. Anime brought Variety to animation that you could not see in America, because the vast majority of people Pigeon Holed Comic books and animation to only be for Kids. This is why I got into it, and why I think people are using the style.

[blacky]

This is a very important point. The conventions of manga grew up because it is art in service to story. T

Have to agree on that, graphics of Dragonhead, are awfull, but the story and atmosphere is phenomenal.

Besides, to answer your question; I detest most mangas or any sort of anyme except for 2-3 exceptions.

[Interceptor]

There's only one manga i read. Blade of the Immortal. Written and Illustrated by Hiaroaki Samura. Throughout the series you see his art progress a TON. This guy's work is phenominal. Especially his ability to illustrate movement and a facial expression.

http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/596/596807/blade-of-the-immortal-100-preview-20050317100819016-000.jpg http://www.8weekly.nl/images/art/blade-of-the-immortal-2.jpghttp://www.moviepostershop.com/item_img/1-25958.jpg

[Snuggles]

I gotta back up the point about storytelling everyone is bringing up. One of the big draws about manga or anime style is how expressive characters can be. A lot of the choices made in the designing and illustration of characters is to help them be evocative. One of the major problems is that because these people don't want to learn the basics, they can't recognize why some artists make the choices they do. They don't see sharper, right angled lines to accent masculinity, they see OMGZ SHARP MEAN GUY EYEZ.

Of course, if you're looking at it all critically, I think it's vital to keep in mind the difference between unrealistic proportions and bad proportions. Having huge eyes and all isn't terrible if you're doing it with a knowledge of anatomy and making informed decisions. But just slapping them on an egg because 'thats wut anime iz!' is where the real trouble begins.

[bumskee]

I love manga & anime.. maybe it's the story or even art, for example.. "last exile" scrapped princess.. "ERGO PROXY" "samurai champloo" "BECK" "Blade of immortals" "BERSERK" "Vegabond" ... the list goes on actually.. oh "Bleach"... quite enjoyed Ghost in Shell TV series too.. I prefer anime & manga style to that of western comic ones actually. But I think we all hate bad manga, but that's the same for other styles. It's just that we see more anime/manga stuff online.

[aesir]

im so happy you put Beck in that list bumskee :)

[bumskee]

BECK is by far one of my favourite.. I remember watching allllll of it non stop.. it's such an inspirational story. music isn't bad either!

[aesir]

did you hear that it got liscnesed? As in, they're gonna dub it. Or "are" dubbing it, dont remember which. Which begs the question, how the hell are they gonna do that. I mean, beyond just the question of, are they gonna hire some new bands to sing in english, but to the point that there are some parts that simply wont make sense. People speak both english and japanese in it... I have no idea how they could possibly deal with it...

[bumskee]

*shrugs* I hate dubbed animes, prefer subtitles.. couldn't stand samurai champloo on TV, the voices are so cheesy...

[Ian Mack]

I like it. I spent alot of time getting away from and into more of a naturalist style but I will never lose the influence that anime had on my early days as an artist. Watching Robotech got me into cartoons and drawing.

Anime has a mature feel and I resonate more with their films instead of alot of mainstream western cartoons.

Hokusai (http://www.artelino.com/articles/hokusai.asp) --> Father of Manga.

You'll recognize his work. There's a good quote on the page too.

[Bammer]

What Davi said ++.
Manga is a style in a can.
Have your own style or have no style.
Some people on this site have art that's definitly in an anime/manga direction. People (myself included) love the works of Alien1452 who posts on this site.
But the anime/manga style was concieved to make a quick image, not a quality image. ConceptArt.org doesn't usually embrace artists that stop at run-of-the-mill superhero style or loony toons type crap. Manga is no different.

[blankslatejoe]

this isnt a anime/mange place... it's a conceptart place.. and even that's shakey, because the emphasis isn't on conceptart as much as it is on traditional, solid art skills--whether its for concept art, fine art, comics, or other purposes.

The manga artists on this site who recieve praise recieve it because they are also skilled with gesture or color or tech or lighting or design or heck..even just line quality--there's always always always SOMETHING else there to make their work transcend. The 'manga approach' should become secondary to the artist's skill level, right?

[BlueMech]

We should turn this into a CONCEPTUAL art place. Here is my first piece.

8===D ~~~@@

[seba_boi]

Don't really read mangas that much (I rarely read any written stories at all)... I've read some Ranma 1/2 and Ah! My Goddess... Great stories with rounded and interesting characters all around... Ah! My Goddess (often referred to as the "guy rom com") by Fujishima Kosuke have a unique style (I like it)... I also own Miyazaki's Nausicaa Of The Valley Of The Wind manga... That's a real stretch in manga since it resembles a vast storyboard...

But anime... Damn... 90% are crap IMO, but I still love a ton of them... They're like soap operas for animation lovers... Cowboy Bebop, Ranma 1/2, Yu Yu Hakusho, Evangelion, and a lot of Ghibli films.... This is how I discovered my favourite composer, Ms. Yoko Kanno... I own about 30 CDs of hers (<----dedicated fan--she has a cult following of her own)...

I'm heavily influenced by anime.... Though I'm more into the Range Murata, Hyung-Tae Kim, Capcom styles... But I still appreciate the Evangelion (Yoshiyuki Sadamoto), Cowboy Bebop (Toshihiro Kawamoto), and Ranma (Rumiko Takahashi) styles... I own a lot of pictures of them.... More reasonably because I like the character designs and the characters themselves...

[JERI]

So we're allowed to mention our favourite manga artists? I call Yusuke Murata.
He's got one of the best foreshortening + dynamic movements I've seen.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1033/es21a6lp.jpg
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7623/es21b6wz.jpg
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1728/es21c2nl.jpg

[Celvin H]

i believe that manga is just lesser anime. Anime is under things like Akira and Ghost in the shell (confusing as fook) and manga is shoalin showdown and CHILDRENS cartoons like that. not that its bad but i prefer anime

[Mirana]

Uhhh, Celvin? anime=animation, manga=comics. Akira and GitS were manga before they became anime.

[Elwell]

Evidently Celvin H and Humpty Dumpty have a lot in common...
`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

[GunTrouver]

I agree to corky 13. When it's good people will like it but it has to be unique and interesting. Look at Katsuhiro Otomo's work, I think none here would say that it is bad. Or animes/ mangas like ghost in the shell, I think works like this were accepted here because it's high quality art, not this commercial manga-stuff.
That don't mean you should draw like Otomo or Masamune but this could be a help for orieantation.

[Magic Man]

i believe that manga is just lesser anime. Anime is under things like Akira and Ghost in the shell (confusing as fook) and manga is shoalin showdown and CHILDRENS cartoons like that. not that its bad but i prefer anime

...you need to read up on your japanese animation history.

[jasonnavarrette]

Manga is defintily a good place to start...it gives people the ability to familiarize themselves with form in a rather safe medium.

[Wolfbane]

i hate the the overreaction in the manga style. when something is depressing,
ppl's faces turnes blue and they get get these really moppy faces like its the
en of the world. when they are happy, they scream out and bounce all
around the place while their mouth is the size of a chipped watermellon. well
you see where im going :)

[bumskee]

i hate the the overreaction in the manga style.

This is same with all other cartoons and comics.. exaggerated.. I don't think that's the characteristics of anime/manga alone.

[armando]

I've got no problem with anime or manga. Reading through the responses I think there is a broader question of stylization vs realism, which is difficult to answer. Elwell put it best with how the conventions of manga where developed in order to tell a story quickly. Using this as an argument it can be said that the conventional manga style is unsuitable for concept art, which must tell a story in one picture rather than sequential images. What it comes down to is choosing an appropriate style to communicate the necessary information.

[Cypher]

I like anime and manga because its so different from Western Comics and cartoons, the stories have far more fantasy and tent to really suck you up.

I also envy the fact that many manga's are as thick as small bibles... 250 pages average and most artists still draw every page with full anatomic precision ( anatomic presision that matches the manga style off course... you know what i mean ).

Being a Manga-ka must be VERY stressfull though....
I really think that a manga artist will be annoyed by the enormous amount of art he needs to do in a small time period, I don't think that they al like the job as much as we think they do.

[Snuggles]

Elwell put it best with how the conventions of manga where developed in order to tell a story quickly. Using this as an argument it can be said that the conventional manga style is unsuitable for concept art, which must tell a story in one picture rather than sequential images. What it comes down to is choosing an appropriate style to communicate the necessary information.

Though I think this is partially true, I also think there's a propensity to use some of the conventions (once you understand how to use them,) in a Manga style to really pop out character details in an image you might not be able to with other styles. A big part of art is, as mentioned, experimentation, and there are certain levels of expression that this style is particularly good at BECAUSE of its storytelling roots. Things that can be used very well by someone who's both skilled and aware.

It's for this reason that I think, as a style for concepting, it's necessary to recognize the potential for these styles. Designs aren't interchangable between styles. You can't have a realistic character dressed like Sora from Kingdom Hearts, and you can't really have someone in the anime style dressed exactly like Gordon Freeman, obviously. While anime-Gordon Freeman wouldn't be as ridiculous as real-Sora, they'd frankly just both not be as well designed as they are in their native styles. The reason for this is the difference in what styles express. The last time I saw anything in a Western comic or realistic style that made my girlfriend cry over how cute it was is...well...never.

[armando]

My argument was left a bit open, I never said that the manga/anime style couldn't be adapted to suit concept art. My final sentence summarized your last paragraph and most of the first. I'm a bit annoyed that you would argue for the expressive potential of anime, but then put a limit on what western comics are capable of. Using your girlfriend as the judge of the potential of an artform isn't much of an argument.

[Infinit]

"blade of the Immortal" rocks!

there are things in manga that influenced my comicdrawing style a lot
like panel compositon
stylisation of facial expressions and the art to show movement

I love well drawn mangas
it's #1 buying reason =>if the story sucks you still got great artwork
if the art sucks I just can't get happy with the story because of looking at lazy eyes, ugly perspectives, wrong anatomy ...

[Snuggles]

Ah, I didn't set out to make this an out and out attack or anything, and I apologize if I rubbed you the wrong way about Western Comic style. To be honest, the majority of my post was half expansion upon that final sentence and half response to the point you made that certain elements could work against the style as a medium for concepting. Didn't mean to be redundant, just felt like expanding upon something I think's pretty important to note when you're talking about styles and concepting.

Though I honestly will apologize if I made it seem like I was somehow ranking styles by versatility. Really, there isn't a shred of doubt in my mind that Western Comics COULD reach that warm and fuzzy place that some manga styles frequent. Simply put, the style just seems to communicate different things on average, as you said. I've also never seen manga styles reach certain places that some Western styles tend to cover more often. It simply seemed like it was manga stylization that had come under fire, and I was pushing on its good points. I've gained massive amounts of respect for Western artists in recent years, and I've gotta say there's also a level of nobility and starkness to Western styles that I have rarely if ever seen portrayed in manga. Doesn't mean it can't happen, doesn't mean it's not out there. Like you said, it's about choosing a style for the information you're putting forth. The example was also my way of saying, 'different target demographics, different information to send, different styles used.'
I didn't outright mean, "my grrlfriend sez US comix arn't kewt so they sux0rz at that but anime rulz!11!!" ;)

[Merge]

I'll be honest. The first cartoon I EVER remember watching was "The warriors of the wind" which was the horribly butched version of Nausicaa. After reading everone elses opinions in short I agree with Davi. 90% of anime/manga is prepackaged garbage. Hate me if you want but Sailor Moon, Pokemon, and Dragon Ball Z are all mainstream well known anime series and they're crap. Sure they have some flashy gimicks but these gimicks are so over used it isn't funny. Now that other 10% (this may be even less) is what I am attracted to. After watching some Gundam Wing a buddy of mine mentioned this other anime series to me called Evangelion, so one day I sat down and watched it. That show found the cieling that other Robot and Psychological anime series made and blasted it from it's hinges. Miyazaki's works are in the same catergory. They found a new level to raise the bar to. Look back to Akira. It was a bench mark in animation in general! OK I am ranting a bit here. In short the 10% or less anime out there that pushes itself to the breaking point is good. The parasite shows and series that spawn in their wakes need to never be looked upon or mentioned.

And on a side note I have to say I have deep running respect for anime just becase it ventures into the human mind and makes shows that make people think. (ie. Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Paranoia Agent) Asking the big WHO, WHAT, WHERE, WHEN and WHY pertaining to life.

[seba_boi]

Yeah, maybe they're crap, but that doesn't mean some of them are not fun to watch/read... I can only take so much serious artsy stuff... ;)

*goes back to watching Fullmetal Alchemist*

[Mirana]

There's an important distinction between the anime you use as bad and good examples--Audience.

Sailor Moon, Pokemon and DBZ are not only young childrens' shows, but were stretched beyond their original creators intended stories because of the marketing nature of those type of shows. The director of SM was so sick of how far his company made him drag the story on that he refused to do another "girls" show (he went back on his word to produce Rev. Girl Utena, but it's for an older audience). Akira Toriyama was also dismayed at how DB and it's spin-offs were forced to go on and on.

The other anime/manga you speak of are intended for teenage to adult audience. Their writing is much more intelligent, artwork of higher quality, and storylines much more concise (most not lasting more than one season).

[Number_6]

After reading everone elses opinions in short I agree with Davi. 90% of anime/manga is prepackaged garbage. Hate me if you want but Sailor Moon, Pokemon, and Dragon Ball Z are all mainstream well known anime series and they're crap.

It wasn't long after liking it that I wondered why I ever enjoyed Pokemon. Curiosly, that was the same period that I was really into Digimon. I may only have been 12 or 13 at the time, but I still think Digimon was way better (1st and 2nd seasons only. I haven't seen any of the others).

[Icon]

Just a quick recommendation:

If you want a nice robot anime mind f-ck then watch Eureka Seven. If possible watch the original Japanese version; i’m not sure how much of it was edited in the English version. It's all about surfing' (or a version of surfing'), youth and the effects of war told in a very lovely story!

Another anime to watch.

Monster. Basically a Japanese doctor has to choose between saving the life of a famous politician and a child, and how his life seriously fucks up from it. :P It's a political suspense thriller........yeah! It’s bad ass!

From the same author who wrote 20th century boys (yes it's related to that song from T-Rex!) Music fans and art fans should love this one. Short story long, around 1950(60?) these kids form their own little club and read jump comics, and decide to be their own superheroes. They need to fight an evil, so they create their own book of prophesy on how the world will end. A couple of years later they start to realize someone is making these prophesy true! An amazing story not for people looking for a happy ending.

:3 Also, sorry for the infomercial flare to the post, but how can we show these kids that there are some amazing stories out there, if we don't give em' something to look!
You can pass judgment on it, but you'll never truly now how amazing things are until you try them yourself. Because the funny thing is, general people (Not knowledgeable on art, design, etc) can appreciate art...well to a certain degree..... But they'll be more likely to appreciate a good story and forget how horrid the style or animation may be because they can relate to the story. :P


Edit: Also, something I’d like to point out, whether it's anime, manga, U.S comics, movies or novels, hell as long as we're interested in stories, then we're fine. Our jobs in the present or future is not to show how badass we can do lines, or how cool our color palette is, but rather how efficiently we tell a story, so that others will understand. (Of course it's important to know technique! It's the bag of tricks that allows you to perform!) But if we don't spend time at least enjoying these stories...well... we won't be very good story tellers. =/

[Tomato]

I seriously wasn't expecting to get so many replies to this thread! I have to say I am impressed and that i'm happy, because you've all given me a lot of advice, as well as your own opinions, about Manga and Anime. I love to draw manga! I started off drawing it and i can't get enough of it! I've opened a new thread in the WIP section called: 'My Story Characters' where i will post most of my manga characters for stories and games i'm working on. I hope you will all check it out and give me some feedback. I would apperciate it :)

Thanks again for posting here. Its helped :)