Painter problems

[Noë]

Hello there,
I recently downloaded (yes downloaded) painter 9, because I wanted to try it out first before I would spend a lot of money to it.
I don't like the program a lot really, but I think that is because I don't understand a lot of it's abilities.

I have a problem with layers though (I think). When I have a background, and create a new layer, none of the brushes or chalk or anything I use will show up on that layer.. When I use them directly on the background layer, it shows up perfectly.

And another thing I'm confused about is the opacity. When I set the opacity of for example a digital water colour brush to 20 %, it's still almost the colour I picked, and definetely nót 20% black and 80% white (on a white background).

Also, I read that you can change the brush size by using [ and ], this doesn't seem to work for me in painter.. It does work in Photoshop.

Can somebody help me with this?
Love
Marleen

[Dile_]

As In photoshop you have Layers Modes, maybe you have use a tool wich is automaticly set to "Magic Colors" or anyother layer mode that isnt
supported for a certain brush, test to change the brush modes to
view the brush!

about the Opacity stuff, It didnt work on my first painter version (IX)
but when I upgraded to IX.1 or IX.5 it worked better than in photoshop :S
strange, but yeah.. maybe uninstall the trial version to see if it works,
this was one of the reasons that I didnt liked painter til I reinstalled it.. or upgraded :P
Well, play with the settings! its a fun program when you get use to it ;)

[sandman]

Hi Marleen,

Hello there,
I recently downloaded (yes downloaded) painter 9, because I wanted to try it out first before I would spend a lot of money to it.
I don't like the program a lot really, but I think that is because I don't understand a lot of it's abilities.


Painter is a very deep program, but just take one step at a time (starting with the basics) and work up. Check out the Help Topics in the Help menu and go through each related topic as the need arises.

I have a problem with layers though (I think). When I have a background, and create a new layer, none of the brushes or chalk or anything I use will show up on that layer.. When I use them directly on the background layer, it shows up perfectly.

Make sure that the 'Preserve Transparency' box is unchecked in the Layers palette.

And another thing I'm confused about is the opacity. When I set the opacity of for example a digital water colour brush to 20 %, it's still almost the colour I picked, and definetely nót 20% black and 80% white (on a white background).


The Digital Watercolor variants are a unique category, so you may not get the same result as some other brushes with the same opacity settings. The key is to just experiment and have fun.

Also, I read that you can change the brush size by using [ and ], this doesn't seem to work for me in painter.. It does work in Photoshop.

I am aware that there is/was a problem with German and French keyboards in relation to those specific keys. You may find an answer in this thread (http://groups.google.com/group/corel.graphic_apps.painter/browse_frm/thread/66e7602036b3ae94/ebb58a42c2eacac5?tvc=1&q=german+keyboard+shortcut+group%3Acorel.graphic_a pps.painter&hl=en#ebb58a42c2eacac5)

[CaneHoyer]

You have so many confusing questions.

I would advise you to get some tutorial infos about painter in the web on special painter sites.

Some questions of yours are just a setting problem, like the funcion keys.
In Painter you can configure the keys as you want to, and it is better then in Photoshop, cause you can set a funcion also to a key, without a second funtcion key, this is not possible in PS.

So try get further by solving one thing after the other.

Don't try all kinds of colors at once. This will be confusing, cause every color works different, as it simulates the original colors.
An oil color works completely different, thatn an aquarell or a pencil etc.

Always keep in mind Painter is a Paint-Program, not a graphic program like Photoshop. It's nature lies in simulating real painting.

[Jin]

I have a problem with layers though (I think). When I have a background, and create a new layer, none of the brushes or chalk or anything I use will show up on that layer.. When I use them directly on the background layer, it shows up perfectly.


In Painter, the "background" is called the Canvas.


And another thing I'm confused about is the opacity. When I set the opacity of for example a digital water colour brush to 20 %, it's still almost the colour I picked, and definetely nót 20% black and 80% white (on a white background).


It always helps to state the exact brush variant you're having a problem with as, even within one brush category, the brush variants all work differently to one degree or another. Knowing the exact name of the brush variant makes it possible for anyone trying to help to test that brush variant and possibly come up with a solution.

In the meantime, here's a demo using the Painter IX Digital Watecolor's New Simple Water variant:

http://www.tutoralley.com/ubb/jins_images/20_pct_grey_DWC_stroke_demo_opt.jpg


Also, I read that you can change the brush size by using [ and ], this doesn't seem to work for me in painter.. It does work in Photoshop.

Can somebody help me with this?
Love
Marleen

The [ and ] keys do work in Painter to decrease and increase brush size. Maybe you aren't seeing the change if your brush size increment is set to 1 pixel. To change that to whatever number of pixels you want to decrease or increase brush size, use:

Mac - Painter IX > Preferences > General

Windows - Edit > Preferences > General

Then your brush size will be, if you have the brush size increment set to 10 pixels for example, increased from whatever the current size is (i.e. 1.0) with a single click on the ] key, to 11.0 or if the current size is 10.0 it will be increased to 20.0.

[Jin]

As In photoshop you have Layers Modes, maybe you have use a tool wich is automaticly set to "Magic Colors" or anyother layer mode that isnt
supported for a certain brush, test to change the brush modes to
view the brush!


In Painter, what you refer to as "Layer Modes" are called Composite Methods.

Painter's brush variants can't be set to "Magic Colors" since there isn't an option to change brush modes as there is in Photoshop, though there are many, many brush controls in Painter that can be adjusted, and Painter's Layer Composite Methods can be changed.

Some Painter brush variants won't work on Layers at all unless there is already color on the layer to which the brush variant can be applied (for instance, brush variants set to use Method: Drip or Method: Plug-in).

[Noë]

Thanks for all the comments!
The [ and ] things work now. The next time I started painter, it just worked, suddenly. Don't know why, but I'm happy about it.

I unchecked the "preserve transparicy" box and that worked also, so now I cán draw on separate layers..

The only thing that still bothers me is the opacity issue.
When I turn all the expressions to 'none' exept size (that one is set to "pen pressure", and I turn the opacity to 50% (black brush on white canvas), the final result is a black brush stroke.. While in photoshop there would be a perfectly grey brush stroke.

Another thing I found out is that I can't put white brushstrokes on a grey canvas. The final result is just the same grey as the canvas is..

Thank you for all the help..
love
Marleen

[rogfa]

Have you setup your brush tracking? Are all the brushes doing this? Try the Square Chalk in Dry Media brush. I know I had the same issue with the Water Color brushes. I would set my opacity to like 10% and it was completely dark. I really just use that brush for glazing color in as it doesn't mess up your linework.

Also on the brush size issue. Painter is nice to resize brushes to like 2.5 or 2.7, you're not limited to whole numbers. It doesn't make the biggest different but it's far quicker to draw your brush size on screen to what you want exactly then to keep pressing [ and ] to resize it.

If you want to be less dependant on the keyboard, you can map the shorcut to your stylus buttons. If you are on a PC, the shortcut to resize the brush on screen is CTRL + ALT. I press the upper button on my stylus and redraw my brush, if I want to sample color I press the lower button (mapped to ALT).

[Jin]

Thanks for all the comments!
The [ and ] things work now. The next time I started painter, it just worked, suddenly. Don't know why, but I'm happy about it.

I unchecked the "preserve transparicy" box and that worked also, so now I cán draw on separate layers..

The only thing that still bothers me is the opacity issue.
When I turn all the expressions to 'none' exept size (that one is set to "pen pressure", and I turn the opacity to 50% (black brush on white canvas), the final result is a black brush stroke.. While in photoshop there would be a perfectly grey brush stroke.


In Photoshop, there is no Digital Watercolor brush technology. Not only that, but many of Painter's brush variants don't work the same way as Photoshop's brushes because they're not using the same brush technology overall.

Depending on the Painter brush variant you choose and/or the brush control settings used, you will be able to paint 50% black on a white Canvas.

If you're using, for instance, the Painter IX Digital Watercolor's New Simple Water variant and paint with black at 50% Opacity, you'll get a black brushstroke. This you already know.

You can get a 50% black brushstroke if you do what I did in the example image in my previous post and in the demo image below. That is, choose 50% black as your color and set Opacity to 100%. Digital Watercolor paint is transparent, though, so that will affect any existing color the brushstroke passes over, when it's painted on the Canvas level over existing color or on a Layer above existing color. Since Digital Watercolor paint is transparent, white over color will be invisible.

http://www.tutoralley.com/ubb/jins_images/50_pct_blk_DWC_stroke_demo1_opt.jpg


Examples of 50% black brushstrokes painted with two brush variants set to 100% black (H:0 S:0 V:0) with Opacity set to 50%:

http://www.tutoralley.com/ubb/jins_images/50_pct_blk_DWC_stroke_demo2_opt.jpg



Another thing I found out is that I can't put white brushstrokes on a grey canvas. The final result is just the same grey as the canvas is..

Thank you for all the help..
love
Marleen

See my first demo image, in this post to understand why that happens when using Digital Watercolor.

Not all, but many other brush categories' brush variants will paint visible white over grey and other colors. If the brushstrokes are painted on transparent areas of a Layer set to Composite Method Gel or Multiply, the white strokes will be transparent (invisible) but will show if painted over existing color on that Layer. If they're painted on a Layer set to Composite Method Default, they'll be invisible if painted over a white Canvas but visible if painted over colored areas of the Canvas.

http://www.tutoralley.com/ubb/jins_images/white_over_color_and_transp_Layer.jpg

.................

[Noë]

http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL655/2419646/5277014/153506494.jpg

!!

So thanks for the comments, I found out that there's nothing wrong with my opacity, that it's normal that the digital water colours respond differently to this opacity change.
I think I like the artists' oils best, but am not sure. I guess I just should experiment a lot with all sorts of materials to find out which painter things suit me best.

I still have a few more questions.
Would have looked into the help topics, but they don't seem to work..

- How do you change the paper you're using?
- Is there anything like Photoshop's history (I like PS's snapshot function a lot)
- Is there anything like Photoshop's navigator?

I'm sorry I'm comparing Painter so much to photoshop.
love
Marleen.

[Jin]

So thanks for the comments, I found out that there's nothing wrong with my opacity, that it's normal that the digital water colours respond differently to this opacity change.


You're welcome! In case "(/girls?)" in your image referred to me (people often think my name is JiMMy rather than JiNNy or when I use Jin, they think I'm an Asian man), I'm most definitely not a guy (mother of two, grandma of five, great grandma of one) and very happy to be a "girl". ;)

Yep! Digital Watercolors do respond differently with respect to Opacity and several other aspects of painting. That's what I tried to demonstrate in the images in my post and explain verbally in those posts.


I think I like the artists' oils best, but am not sure. I guess I just should experiment a lot with all sorts of materials to find out which painter things suit me best.


That's the best way for any artist to find what works best... for them... by lots of experimenting and practice with Painter's many brush variants.


I still have a few more questions.
Would have looked into the help topics, but they don't seem to work..


Since I'm a Windows user, I can't provide instructions for Mac users but they should be similar enough for you to figure it out based on what I'll describe below.

If you have trouble opening Painter IX Help Topics from inside Painter IX, you should be able to open it directly from the following file:

Program Files\Corel\Corel Painter IX\Help\PainterHlp.chm

In Windows, either double-click the file to launch Painter IX Help, or right-click the file and choose Open With then click Microsoft® HTML Help Executable.

If you place a shortcut for that file on your desktop, you can double-click the shortcut to launch Painter IX Help.


- How do you change the paper you're using?


Open the Papers palette and choose another Paper.


- Is there anything like Photoshop's history (I like PS's snapshot function a lot)


Three ways:


The Undo and Redo commands (Ctrl/Command+Z to Undo and Ctrl/Command+Y to Redo). There's a maximum of 32 Undo's allowed in Painter IX (and earlier versions).

Painter automatically records a script of everything we do in a Painter session and saves those scripts for the number of days set in:

Mac - Painter IX > Preferences > General
Windows - Edit > Preferences > General

The maximum number of days Painter Auto Saves scripts is 10 but that takes a lot of memory so most Painter artists set the number lower than 10 days.

Mac - Painter IX > Preferences > Undo
Windows - Edit > Preferences > Undo


We can also record a script of work we do on a painting or other image. In the Scripts palette menu, choose Record Script. When you're finished, go to the Scripts palette menu and choose Stop Recording Script, then give your script a name and click the OK button.

Read Painter IX Help > Help Topics > Contents tab > Scripting to learn more about using Painter IX Scripting feature.



- Is there anything like Photoshop's navigator?


Three ways you can view your working image (only one is dynamic):


Dynamic - The Info palette displays a small dynamic view of the entire image.

At the bottom left corner of the image window, click the Navigator icon (binoculars) and a slightly larger window opens displaying the entire image with a red rectangle around the part of the image currently displayed in the image window (i.e. if you're zoomed in, only the visible part of the image is displayed in the red rectangle). Click and drag the red rectangle around to navigate to another area of the image and as you drag the red rectangle you'll see the image window is updated to display the area of the image displayed inside the red rectangle.. Click in the image to close the Navigator view.

If you're zoomed in and want to see a large view of your entire image, use File > Clone to make a flattened copy of the image. When you're finished looking at the Clone, close it to get it out of the way. Use File > Clone again when you want to take another look after making changes to the working image.



I'm sorry I'm comparing Painter so much to photoshop.
love
Marleen.

You're certainly not the first to use Photoshop as the baseline for comparison when trying to learn Painter. You'll soon be past that stage and enjoying Painter for what it is, and Photoshop for what it is, two distinctly different programs both of which are excellent in their own ways.