Wii success?

[Prometheus|ANJ]

How well will Wii do?

[cartoonfox]

Fanboyism aside (as much as possible for me!) I think it is impossible for the Wii to do worse than the gamecube did. Therefor it doesn't "fail" by default.
That aside, I think the Wii will be very successful. Talking about 1st 2nd and 3rd is very hard to do right now, but I do strongly believe that the Wii will have a very strong fighting chance to gain 2nd or 3rd place worldwide.
E3 had nothing but positive reports for the Wii, even PS3 and Xbox360 fans at least acknowledged that this years E3 was won by Nintendo. You should have seen the queue's! People wanted to play!!

Of course, every console has it's ups and downs, pros and cons. The Wii will not sell to every house-hold in Europe, US and Japan. However, realistically I do strongly believe the Wii will be hugely successful. And fucking fun!!


peace

[jcaffoe]

if anything this technology means that everyone will know about this system. And when it comes time this fall for parents to choose between a PS3 and a Wii, I think the choice is clear.

300-400 dollars cheaper?
Child-friendly games?
My kids will be more active and won't be vegging on the couch all day?
Huge backlibrary of titles that I used to play way back when?
Where do I sign up?

I also think that anyone who fits into the general gaming demographic (which, these days, lands the majority of gamers between ages 20 and 40) people aren't going to want to take a chunk out of their salary or skip their rent payments to pick up a PS3, especially with the lack of quality titles it's looking to have at launch.

Then again, I said the same about the PS2 way back when, we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[yAdam]

I think thats definately the case easytiger, its the most appealing out of all three next gen consoles....

Yeah cai :) theres no way it can do worse than the gamecube. Its good reading comments from sony and microsoft, pretty much telling people to go and buy a wii.. although i might be tempted by a 360 in a couple of years...

[Icon]

Personally, I think the Wii will kill on christmas season. Just for the 300 dollar cheaper deal. also, anybody can play the Wii! It's so far the most ingenious out of the 3 consoles. .....I CANT WAIT! ok..ok i need to chill..yea... god i love the Wii!!!!!


Don't get me wrong i'll still buy a ps3.... just after my wii! :D

[le capitan]

i am almost dead set on getting a wii. The only system from nintendo ive owned was a snes, but the wii is catching my eye imensly. The price, the controler, the possibilities, and the games simply get my all giddy inside.
i just wish mgs4 and assasins creed were coming out for wii. Then i wouldnt have to blink twice.

[CaptainInsano]

There's nothing that's going to stop me from getting a Wii, even if the PS3 debuts at $50 bucks.

[MEP]

These polls make the same false assumption -- that the success of a game console is related to its quality in any way.

Let's face it, the Dreamcast was one of the best consoles ever released, but fat lot of good that did against the Sony hype machine.

Will the Wii change gaming? It already has.

Will the Wii make a tidy profit for Nintendo? Of course, Nintendo always profits every generation.

Will the Wii become the market leader? Does anybody really care? Does Nintendo even care? They don't seem to most of the time.

[nofingers]

Doesn't Nintendo do this with every system they ever come out with? Wait six months to a year after the competition comes out. I can only hope the the PS3 and Wii launches aren't the disasterous dissappointment that was the 360. With a new super mario title, and the legend of zelda as launch titles, i will find it very hard to pass up, especially since this console will be affordable.

Does anyone know how much access to the old nintendo library will cost?

[MEP]

Doesn't Nintendo do this with every system they ever come out with? Wait six months to a year after the competition comes out. I can only hope the the PS3 and Wii launches aren't the disasterous dissappointment that was the 360. With a new super mario title, and the legend of zelda as launch titles, i will find it very hard to pass up, especially since this console will be affordable.

Does anyone know how much access to the old nintendo library will cost?

Rumors I've heard indicate that the games will be priced based on which console they originally appeared on with prices expected to be something like:

NES = $3
SNES = $5
N64 = $10

I have no idea how reliable those numbers are, but that seems like a good price point to me. It's not so much money as to encourage people to download ROMs instead, but it's enough to probably make some profit after deducting the cost of porting/serving.

Clearly, Nintendo wants to make their money on volume rather than margins as far as downloadable content goes.

[Prometheus|ANJ]

I still have that Metroid Prime game I won in the ThunderDome. I'm not able to play it cuz it's American region and I don't have a GC anyways. Will the Wii be region free for GC? Is it possible with the PAL/NTSC deal going on?


MEP> It is of course impossible to tell how well any console is going to do at this stage, not even the well paid marketing guys at the big companies know.

The poll merely asks how well people here on CA think the console is going to do on a scale from 1-5. The text is just so you know what the rating is worth. I should have numbered them. It'll be interesting to see in retrospect how right or wrong the polls were. It's a pity that you can't see who voted on what so you can rub it in their face later ;).

[_Mario]

It will be a success. The Wii is not a completely new console like the PS3 and Xbox 360. Comparable to these two it's more of an hardware upgrade to the GC (some of the first dev kits were just GC's with a non-cordless Wii-mote, as you can read in some articles and interviews). So Nintendo will probably make money on the hardware from the start and did not have a R&D budget as big as Microsoft and Sony. And Nintendo doesn't have to depend on high software sales and other stuff to compensate for that. In addition the Nintendo DS is still growing so that gives Nintendo two consoles that make money while the other two companies are still investing money in their console.
And since Nintendo has been chushed by the original PS it has slowly been growing and will at some point (in my opinion) surpass it's old glory (NES and SNES times). And there are a lot of third party developers who believe in the console (compared to Nintendo's last two consoles) so there will be more games.

Nintendos success at E3 shows that gamers like the console and with their aim to spread their userbase into the non-gamer sector they seem to beonly missing the 'average gamer' who likes shiny graphics and the next EA Madden game. If everything goes as Nintendo hopes/plans then Wii could end up to win the 'most consoles sold' race against PS3 and Xbox 360.

[MEP]

The Wii is not a completely new console like the PS3 and Xbox 360. Comparable to these two it's more of an hardware upgrade to the GC (some of the first dev kits were just GC's with a non-cordless Wii-mote, as you can read in some articles and interviews). So Nintendo will probably make money on the hardware from the start and did not have a R&D budget as big as Microsoft and Sony. And Nintendo doesn't have to depend on high software sales and other stuff to compensate for that. In addition the Nintendo DS is still growing so that gives Nintendo two consoles that make money while the other two companies are still investing money in their console.


I would venture to say that the Xbox 360 is nothing more than a hardware upgrade over the Xbox. I mean seriously, where's the innovation in that thing? It's just a faster PC than the last Xbox was.

The PS3 is the same thing, a faster PC than the last Xbox was. You read that right. It's not an upgrade of anything Sony has done. The Playstation was cobbled together in haste (still a good system, and I still have mine, but it really was thrown together last minute). The PS2's bandwidth-heavy memory-light architecture was unlike any game console before (but similar to the way graphics workstations used to be made) and the development hurdles on that platform were the primary reason why the game line up was filled with losers for the first year.

The PS3 is more in line with MS's philosophy of console architecture -- build it simple, make it PC-like, give it plenty of power. There's nothing wrong with that, but there is nothing about the PS3 that is revolutionary as far as the hardware is concerned. Sony needs 3rd party devs to revolutionize for them this time around, because nothing in their hardware or software lineup looks any different from last generation except for the number of polygons they're pushing to the screen.

Meanwhile, Nintendo has been focusing on real innovation, which is never really about processor speed, though it sometimes requires more power. Nintendo has asked questions about how games are played and how they should be played. Their early experiments in this new area were all conducted on old hardware (hence the GC-based dev kits), but that's a good thing. It means Nintendo did their homework before commiting themselves to the Wiimote. I'm glad they tested these ideas on old hardware because it indicates they've been working on this for a while. The Wii is not just an upgraded GC, even though the ideas were first tested on an old GC. The hardware is significantly more powerful than last generation, and I think the visuals so far are a testament to that power (I like how Nintendo always puts more focus on lighting and particle effects than on polygons, there's so much more bang for your buck visually that way).

And Nintendo's pricing model will be the same as everybody else's. Sell the hardware at a loss (which I imagine is pretty significant for Nintendo at their current price point) and make up that loss in software. There's a significant amount of R&D capital in the Wiimote. That's far harder to develop than the simple speed upgrades that are in the in the PS3 and 360.

Sony and MS are simply taking advantage of Moore's Law this generation, there seems to be hardly any R&D at all like it's almost a passive process this time for them. Some of the software changes in their core OSes are neat, but hardly revolutionary at this point in time (especially for a company that develops OSes as it's primary source of revenue). Nintendo has put more effort into this generation than either of them and hopefully, the changes they've made will get enough developers excited just to try them out that we'll get some great 3rd party titles for a Nintendo console, which is the one thing the GC really lacked (it had some, I know, but not near enough).

I'd say the Nintendo is taking a Dreamcast sized risk this time around, but Sega didn't have the GameBoy lineup and the DS to save them when their ahead-of-its-time console tanked (nor did they have Pokemon or any of the other half dozen things that are profitable for Nintendo).

[_Mario]

What I meant was that the GC dev kit was used as a Wii dev kit so it really looks like a hardware upgrade. They managed to make the Wii so small, I've seen books that are bigger ;). So the basic hardware (Processor, RAM, ...) looks more like a 'simple consistent upgrade' than the 8 processor cell octopus or the 3 core 360. Wii devs seems to have an easy transition from the GC dev kits while 360 devs need to get used to the three cores and PS3 devs get even more fun with 7 subcores and a even funkier architecture than the PS2.

That's what I meant when I wrote that the Wii is not a totally new console. The programmers get more without having to learn new tricks. For the other two consoles it's not that easy (from the reports). I wasn't saying that the Wii has no new things, just that the programming seems to be easier for it. The Wii-mote and the online service look like they are both a nice evolution from the Nintendo DS (new controller and online capabilities).

And IIRC SONY paid alot for the Cell becaus they want to use it for more than just the PS3 (there was an article about the first Cell workstation for some medical stuff some months ago).
Sony and MS may just be using newer hardware but it looks like Nintendo has done a better job at 'upgrading' their system. It seems to be easier to work with and smaller and the network capabilities will probably be better than the DS (connectable with DS, Connect24, Opera on board from the start, virtual console). It just looks like Nintendo has been fine tuning the Wii with their knowledge of the GC and DS. The two big ones are finghing to get the best possible hardware in their boxes and Nintendo just took something that is better than the last generation but doesn't force them to create a console the size of a truck or where the cooling system is loud (as read about the 360). Their system looks like an upgrade because they are not going for the overkill hardware but for what they need and want.

[Prometheus|ANJ]

I've heard that all the N consoles were consistantly around 200 at launch (not counting inflation). True? Will N go for 200 again?

The online thing might play in a lot. MS has a good headstart there with XBLA, and maybe some 'killer app' will appear for them there, attracting people to that service and the 360. They already have Geometry Wars. N better not underestimate the online thing.

[Snuggles]

Playing devils advocate, here, which means something as I somehow get pegged as a big N fanboy. (I guess I am. Eh?)

At the very least, they definitely have the same market that bought the GC. That's a lot of Nintendo fans and a lot of parents. And by this showing, it's obvious they've won a lot of extra support from gamers who would usually be indifferent. So, hey, at worst, I think it's going to do good. The lack of Smash at launch, and possible lack of Mario Galaxy could sting...but c'mon. Everyone loves Zelda.

And about the graphics. I hope I'm not the only person that noticed from all the videos online (even though they're low quality online vids, I know,) that despite the OMGS EXTREME LACK IN HARDWARE IT SUCKS LIKE A GC that the graphics on the Wii just look good? I didn't see any stray, obvious triangles, and the effects looked great. As artists, especially a lot of us wanting to be concepters in the industry, I think we should all be pretty well aware that how nice a game looks isn't really measured in polys and effects, but instead art direction and skill.

[cartoonfox]

Playing devils advocate, here, which means something as I somehow get pegged as a big N fanboy. (I guess I am. Eh?)

At the very least, they definitely have the same market that bought the GC. That's a lot of Nintendo fans and a lot of parents. And by this showing, it's obvious they've won a lot of extra support from gamers who would usually be indifferent. So, hey, at worst, I think it's going to do good. The lack of Smash at launch, and possible lack of Mario Galaxy could sting...but c'mon. Everyone loves Zelda.

And about the graphics. I hope I'm not the only person that noticed from all the videos online (even though they're low quality online vids, I know,) that despite the OMGS EXTREME LACK IN HARDWARE IT SUCKS LIKE A GC that the graphics on the Wii just look good? I didn't see any stray, obvious triangles, and the effects looked great. As artists, especially a lot of us wanting to be concepters in the industry, I think we should all be pretty well aware that how nice a game looks isn't really measured in polys and effects, but instead art direction and skill.


I'm a PROUD Nintendo fanboy!! : ]
No shame in it at all!

peace

[Snuggles]

I'm a PROUD Nintendo fanboy!! : ]
No shame in it at all!

peace

I kinda like the label, the more I think about it. I mean, c'mon, why NOT be a Nintendo fanboy? I've got hundreds of good memories with them and hardly any bad ones. Seriously, where have they gone wrong? The powerglove? Scoff. Virtual Boy? Wasn't even a horrible console, just the cost and the technology were unreasonable. 64's cartridges might of lost us Square, but hell, I got me a PSX and still loved 64. So, you know, unless you just plain don't like cartoon characters or they threaten your masculinity, the score here is like 100 good memories to 2 bad ones.

Sony has like...2 good things (PSX and PS2) and Microsoft...eh. Windows. And some Flight sims...and some gadgets I can't remember that never took off. I love my Playstations, but c'mon.

[Prometheus|ANJ]

Yeah, the Wii graphics are suffiecient for gameplay. I'm constantly annoyed by how screenshots from games are taken from angles you don't use when playing, Homeworld and RTS in general does this a lot, but FPS too (characters posing perfect in the foreground). When you actually play an RTS you don't have the camera at ground level with a few cool units in the foreground. You play as far zoomed out as you can, topdown, and then, IMO, there will be no significant diffrerence between the Wii and the other consoles. In the heat of battle in a FPS you might not notice much difference either. With a skilled texture artist you can make up for a lot. 20 meters away all that fancy displacement mapping, highrez textures and whatever counts for nothing.
The Wii will lag behind when it comes to the amount of enemies and physics stuff going on though.
I think I typed this before... got a strange deja vu feeling.

Anyways, I still can't decide between voting "okay" and "good". I think that even though Wii seem to have potential, Sony and MS will still present a strong challenge.

[glynn james]

This is a console designed to open up the game market and dissolve the stereotypes that this industry currently suffers from, which is a positive thing - almost revolutionary in fact :)
But sucess depends on the range of game types and the marketing of the console as a simple, low cost machine that anyone can use and enjoy. In my opinion calling the device Wii is a stroke of genius as it has already marketed itself well outside of the typical game media. The name is fun, you just have to look at all the crazy animations relating to the name.

Although I have said this I am still waiting for my 3D electroplankton...

[oracrest]

I think the fact that Sony (the current #1 console in terms of sales) has outright stolen controller functionality from nintendo (#3) tells a lot about what theyve got on the shelf.

I think this system is gonna destroy compared to the last few nintendo systems. They have innovation truly on their side this time, and its pretty much just like they say: microsoft and Sony are pumping out just a lot of the same.

I am also glad that currently one of the giants of the entertainment industry is coming out saying "weve got to be more innovative." Usually thats the story of the underdog, where the man upstairs just wants his big fat paycheck....... (which im sure is just what nintendo wants, just nice to see them being constructive about it.)

[Snuggles]

I think the fact that Sony (the current #1 console in terms of sales) has outright stolen controller functionality from nintendo (#3) tells a lot about what theyve got on the shelf.

It's not really a matter of if they stole it or not. To be honest, this is debatable in the first place, and a lot people get pretty uppity when you put it that way.

The important thing here, is that the idea is pretty dumb in the first place. For one, they aren't copying the Wii-mote. The device is actually a tilt-sensor, more like...you know, what came with Kirby's Pinball like five years back. Only with X,Y, and Z rotation, (I believe.) For another, placing this technology on a regular controller, especially one as complex as the PS2 controller, seems like a poor move. You've got enough to worry about with those things as is. But, for the final blow, well...what the hell could they use this for anyway? The application seems, honestly, very limited and pretty much like a big gimmick. Having to tilt a controller while managing a control stick, 4 face buttons and 4 shoulder buttons seems mind boggling. Unlike Nintendo, Sony's platforms aren't known for entering new territory. Just more guns and cars.
So while there are possibilities, it hardly seems reasonable. Any game that utilizes this feature and makes it fun will probably have to do so very predominantly. And honestly, if you're going to make a game with controls based around fewer buttons and motion/tilt sensitivity...why not do it on the Wii, where customers are much more open to new ideas and development is by far easier and cheaper.

Well...*cough* Yeah. Anyway. Think I'd like a PS3, just...the tilt thing. Seems dumb. Oh, and, my name is not Donald Trump.

[Prometheus|ANJ]

Regardless, for many a joypad like the 'DualShock' will work perfectly okay for stumbling around in specular map glittering corridors and shooting machineguns. The PS3 will sell a lot just because of that, innovation and change is not some miracle cure. Sony can just bruteforce their way and it seems to be exactly what they're doing.

I wonder why Nintendo still has the 'sensor rod' up on their Wii hardware page if it's isn't needed later.

[glynn james]

I thought the sensor bar was needed so the wii could tell where the position of the crontroller was in 3d space, so it can act as a pointer, pick up depth etc. the ps3 controller has no sense of where it is in 3d space. Sony may blag about a tilt sensor, but the wii-mote and nunchuk is a combination of 2 tilt sensors and a tracking pointer.

Am I right in assuming that Sony stole/copied/borrowed the rumble tech by immersion?

[cartoonfox]

the dual shock? im not sure. but it's not even in the ps3 pad anymore...
i find it funny how they TRIED to design a new controller, and it looked like a boomorang so they just went, "fuck it, we'll use the ps2 pad... and turn the dual shock to just dual"!

as for the tilt, sony stole technology seen in gba games 5 years ago.

sony will inovate again,,, they just have to wait for nintendo to show them what! :p


peace

[blankslatejoe]

edit: nevermind-- i misread an earlier post.

[Wolfbane]

its a cool and fresh system, il give them that. But i personaly dont think that this will make it much "cooler" to play some certain games. Ofcourse, sport games like golf, tennis and baseball will turn out pretty awesome in multiplayer, but just physicaly enduring for a guy who wants to complete a single player version.

Other games such as: platform games, fps shooter, flightsimulators will get pretty strict and just wierd. I dunno. The fps part seems ok with a gun and all but its just like a namco gun for games like time crisis and point blanc. Not revolutionery there. Think that the ps3 controll will b just as cool as the new wii remotes. not just becouse the dual shock is a instant classic, but also becouse they have most of the quality as the new remotes from nintendo wii (i hear rumers about that sony has stolen the wii idea, but who gives a damn where the idea comes from, its the product and its qualities that are important). And ps3 seems to be much more visualy impressive than the new nintendo. if i should choose a next gen console i would either buy the 360 or the ps3.

Perhaps it is just becouse i dont like the games they make for the nintendo (except the twin snakes, he he :)). And im a bigger fan of the more "mature" games u get for the 360 and the ps3.

[Denart]

It'll do better than the xbox360 and MAYBE the ps3. The ps3 has too large of a consumer fanbase right now...

[cartoonfox]

Yes but how many of those are still going to buy one for $600?
I reckon until the price goes down, the PS3 won't do as well as the PS2 did in it's first year. The PS2 was exspensive, but $600? Sheesh!

[Wolfbane]

think its worth it, when u look at the visual capacity ^^


Playstation 3! WOOT WOOT!

[cartoonfox]

Really? You're paying $600 for the "visual capacity"?

... Enjoy.

[asoir]

Really? You're paying $600 for the "visual capacity"?

... Enjoy.
I'm pretty sure the consumers would probably buy it for this, after all, Playstation is a bigger brand name than Xbox or especially Wii... and consumers are pretty stupid in general.

[Wolfbane]

Really? You're paying $600 for the "visual capacity"?

... Enjoy.


so? if i want to pay $600 for a console, thats not ur problem anyways. Besides, doubt i will pay for the $600 version, think i will go for the $500, cuz 600 bucks is alot of money :P

[MEP]

so? if i want to pay $600 for a console, thats not ur problem anyways. Besides, doubt i will pay for the $600 version, think i will go for the $500, cuz 600 bucks is alot of money :P

So, you'll pay hundreds of dollars for the least impressive new aspect of the PS3 (better visuals, big whoop), but you won't pay an extra $100 for the HDMI output that actually lets you see those visuals?

after all, Playstation is a bigger brand name than Xbox or especially Wii... and consumers are pretty stupid in general.

So true, like glossy LCDs on the new Mac laptops.

[glynn james]

I'm pretty sure the consumers would probably buy it for this, after all, Playstation is a bigger brand name than Xbox or especially Wii...

But which name has the biggest potential...

[Prometheus|ANJ]

Regardless, for many a joypad like the 'DualShock' will work perfectly okay for stumbling around in specular map glittering corridors and shooting machineguns. The PS3 will sell a lot just because of that, innovation and change is not some miracle cure. Sony can just bruteforce their way and it seems to be exactly what they're doing.

I wonder why Nintendo still has the 'sensor rod' up on their Wii hardware page if it's isn't needed later.

Dualshock = PlayStation analog joy thing... yeah the vibrator is gone so I'm not sure what it's called now. My point was that visuals is by far the most attractive aspect of a game to many, it doesn't matter if the control isn't as good as say a mouse and keyboard is with a FPS. I guess for some the story telling and events in the game is more important than the gameplay. I can understand that viewpoint, and my own preferences are probably in minority.

And I read the sensor rod is temporary. It will not be needed when the thing is finished.

[0kelvin]

The first year or two is going to be a very, very tough time for Sony. They've got a ridiculously overpriced console (but an underpriced Blu-Ray player, as they keep reminding us, to our complete apathy), and while the hardware is far more powerful than the 360, nobody seems to be able to harness that power yet. The screenshot comparisons between 360 games and PS3 games at E3 were nearly identical. People aren't going to spend nearly double for a console without no visible difference in graphics. It could be a generation of games or two before the difference in graphics actually shows itself. At that point it may be too late.

The only thing that could save the PS3 are huge (and I mean huge) exclusives, both games and Blu-Ray movies. But with such a tiny install base (a million units at launch, worldwide, and probably no more than a trickle after that), nobody's going to want to develop games exclusively for it. And that's what it comes down to. PS2 was on top last generation through sheer number of games. They aren't going to have that on their side this time. I would be quite surprised if it didn't have the fewest number of games of the three consoles this time around.

I'm mainly talking about North America here, I know Japan is far more loyal to Sony than we are, so it's difficult to say how they're going to react.

Wait, didn't this thread used to be about the Wii?



0kelvin

[Snuggles]

The first year or two is going to be a very, very tough time for Sony. They've got a ridiculously overpriced console (but an underpriced Blu-Ray player, as they keep reminding us, to our complete apathy), and while the hardware is far more powerful than the 360, nobody seems to be able to harness that power yet. The screenshot comparisons between 360 games and PS3 games at E3 were nearly identical. People aren't going to spend nearly double for a console without no visible difference in graphics. It could be a generation of games or two before the difference in graphics actually shows itself. At that point it may be too late.

Could I also note, that part of the reason nobody's taken full advantage of the hardware yet is because it's incredibly taxing on development. From what I've heard from the industry, creating content for the 360 takes about twice as long as it did on the previous generation. Because of this, and general difficulty developing for these new systems, the cost of development is rising as well, which is bad news for smaller, third party developers. This whole 'screw everything else in favor of the greatest graphics ever' thing is a road the industry can't really afford to go down unless we want to end up like Hollywood with three major studios that manage, monitor, and fund, everything. :zzz:

[Spacemanchuck]

Thats why we gots tha Wii!!

[Snuggles]

Thats why we gots tha Wii!!
Eeeexactly! :D

[cartoonfox]

Spacemanchuck tells it like it is!

[MuffinMan]

consumers are pretty stupid in general.
yeah, true. they get whatever looks the coolest and has the most convincing bullshit.

[Wolfbane]

i dont get the point... why buy a top notch and revolutionary console when u dont got any cool games to play... guess its a matter of experience and taste.

[MEP]

i dont get the point... why buy a top notch and revolutionary console when u dont got any cool games to play... guess its a matter of experience and taste.

I guess my definition of "cool" doesn't include yet another FPS game that's identical in every freaking way to games I played and enjoyed a decade ago. I suppose it doesn't involve yet another sequel to another sequel. I guess cool requires more than just flashier blood sprays and bigger tits (which is all the PS3 has to offer right now).

I guess cool for me involves playing a game that I haven't already played before. Let's see the PS3 do that.

[Prometheus|ANJ]

'You may want to check our past records of price points when launching past hardware...

200usd then?

Edit: "will not exceed $250."

:G 249.95?

[Calle_]

Hm, I was quite excited about the Wii and what it could do until after E3, It just doesnt seem so cool anymore, basically just a GC with a new controller and thats about it.
I dont like the way they talk about being crazy, innovative and new while they just keep super-milking their old titles like Mario who basically turns up in every game some how, Zelda wich in my opinion 'died' with the 64 version , and a new Metroid that looks just like the ones for GC, Ofcourse PS3 games are just the same with mgs, res5 and new FF's but they offer more then just a new controller imo. dno if i'l buy any of the consoles, really wont have the money for a ps3 and right now the titles for wii doesnt excite me at all, maybe there will be some cool games tho, but il just wait til then.
- the DS was (imo) something of the best thing that could happen, with some really awesome games, touchscreen, mic etc. makes it really fun to create games and it gave 2d a chance to live on, something that the newer consoles dont seem to appreciate with all their fancy 3d =(

[Calle_]

dubble

[Prometheus|ANJ]

I think the Wii is a little more than a GC upgrade with a new controller. It's too early to say, but in 10 years a gameconsole/media station without a wiimote might be like a computer without a mouse. The Wii is also faster, has a small flash drive (no need to get mem cards I guess), USB & SD ports (you can connect a hard drive) and the online thing (download old classics and do online stuff).

Granted, the other consoles have similar features, except for the controller.

Mario, Link and Samus are all characters that comes with a certain style, the games they're change over time. You can't equal the gameplay of one game with another because the same characters are in both, and you can't really expect N to drop Mario & Luigi and just invent some crazy new guys called Knopples & Boll or whatever. I'm sure there'll be plenty of other games and new Nintendo characters/universes, but for launch they're of course gonna push their known stuff.

That said, I think it's a pity that some games have changed a lot, like Zelda and Metroid, which had the most potential on the NES, imo. My fingers are itching for a new exploration adventure game but there haven't been that many lately since focus now is on storytelling.

[cartoonfox]

I love my Prometheus. Sometimes I call him Prom.
... Or "Promy" when he's not looking! ;p

Anyway, to the point. This arguement has been argueed since the dinsosaurs died!
Mario as a character has been seen in many many games, yes.
But mario as a game has not. These two should not be confused but they often are.
There have been about 5 or so Mario games since the NES. Super Mario Galaxy being number 6 (or so, I'm not gonna go searching wikipediea).
6 games in 20 years is not bad. Now compare that the Final Fanstasy, who's had about 15 or so games since the NES (? Prom helpe me out, when was FF1 out?). True Each Final Fantasy game has different characters and events, but it's no worse than seeing mario in Smash bros. and sports titles (but I admit, Mario Part has way over done it's course!).

As for the Wii, it's hardly just a beefed up GC. The technology in that controller alone is highly impressive. The ammount that has been fitted into that tiny sleek design is amazing. And Like Prom explained the console is far more powerfull than the GC. roughy x2 on paper (In context, I'd say xbox 360 is about x2 the Xbox, and PS3 is about x4 the PS2...), but after the first wave of companies getting used the FINAL dev kits (out next month btw) the games will games will look a lot better.
Comparible to Killzone2? Of course not, you have to pay $600 to get those graphics after all!


peace


[edit: I typing this while being very sleepy, please excuse the spelling and fact mistakes : ]

[Prometheus|ANJ]

My Dawn of Souls GBA box says (c) 1987,1988,2004 so I'm guessing 87/88 for FF1/FF2

[cartoonfox]

cheers : ]

[Calle_]

Ah - I've read some E3 coverages and they all basically say the games doesnt look alot diffrent from the ones on GC - Havnt seen any gameplay trailers so I guess i shouldnt be talking.
However , The point was not really to diss the Wii or any other console, just alot of the talk around them and the games.
And I really didnt praise FF or anything, same thing goes there, I mean some of the games are propably going to be great themselves, But I really dont think they are doing anything new or exciting. hopefully they will evolve more then it looks with the console shift but imo metriod prime 1 and 2 is basically just the same game, remains to see what they do with 3.
And for the super marios I love every 'real' one so far - it's just the fact that he's in absolutley everything that kinda annoys me, just selling the name.
Nintendo managed to do some cool changes during the years with zelda too, with going 3d and later cellshade(?) with windwaker but I just dont find zelda fun anymore, even tho they updated the graphics.
Some of the cooler games these past years imo are the ones that offer atleast something new in gameplay, there will ofcourse be some pearls among the hundreds of FPS and racing games or the big names pissing on their prequels =). My point is just that im not impressed of what i've seen so far, from any of the brands. basically its just a matter of taste - some like trying new food some dont. This shift is propably going to 'revolutionise' gaming more then the last one did - but to me it seems that if you really want to make something exciting you have to start entierly from skratch =)
all my praises this year will still go to the NDS =).
hopefully this made my thoughts a bit more clear from my previous quite sloppy post hehe

Prom - maybe Ico or Shadow of the colossus ? seems like a great try on new exploration games - I guess its nothing really new since they both take place in eviorments much like earth. spore might fit into this category too when its done , i dont really know yet.
Im writing my own little exploration game too for nintendo DS, hopefully something we'l get around doing some day =).

Fox - thanks for the comment, made it easier to express myself more correctly :P seeya in a few day man

[cartoonfox]

Mario Galaxy looks stunning, you have to watch the hi-ress footage!

As for Metroid Prime 3, the graphics looked awful on the huge projector in Nintendo's conference, but seeing the hi-res footage gained my confidence once more.
Retro said that now until it releases on launch day they will be concentrating more on the graphics, beefing them up for the final system.

Something to note is that the games were running off GC's with extra RAM.
The GPU specs are still unknown, though final dev kits are out next month so it should be finished by now.


Oh and read IGN for gameplay impressions on both Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime (as well as other games).

See you soon ;p


peace

[Prometheus|ANJ]

Yeah, keep in mind that even though the Wii hardware is more powerful, it's also quite similar to the GC. I'm sure that many projects have been initiated on GC devkits, then the developer decided to go Wii and didn't have time to update much.

Adventure for the Atari 2600 is a good exploration game :) Exile is also good but more of a linear puzzle solver, although highly sequence breakable. What I like about Metroid 1 and Zelda 1 is that there are very few sequences to break, you're not really supposed to do things in a particular order. I don't like when games puts demands on me.

What I've seen from Ico reminded me of 'Another World'.

[Prometheus|ANJ]

Nintendo today announced that Reggie Fils-Aime, currently the executive vice president of Sales & Marketing, is being promoted to president and chief operating officer of Nintendo of America.

[MuffinMan]

you know, Wii changed my idea of computer gaming...i spend so much money on a computer and constantly try to keep it beef and up to date for glorious visuals and physics. but then again, now that i've seen what they can do with wii. I've seen the light, computer gaming has gotten exspensive and i can't keep up with it as easy as console gaming:nohope:, but now that i'm getting wii soon, i'll have that to play awesome games in brand new incredible ways that i have never experienced when playing computer games.

[Prometheus|ANJ]

I actually voted on the middle alternative. Whatever edge N has with the controller will be short-lived if it turns out to be awesome. There's also plenty of consumers that couldn't care less about the Wii, Mario and Zelda. It doesn't matter how innovative and different a new Mario game is as long as Raiden can chop up five Moo-ing Metal Gears in a cool intro sequence.

I'm not that excited about the Wii games to be frank. I'd like to get the Wii just for the backwards compability, but now when Spore and SupCom are on the way I might have to spend the money on a new GFX cart (got an old gf440mx).

New SMB looks interesting too.. so maybe a DS.

[cartoonfox]

you know, Wii changed my idea of computer gaming...i spend so much money on a computer and constantly try to keep it beef and up to date for glorious visuals and physics. but then again, now that i've seen what they can do with wii. I've seen the light, computer gaming has gotten exspensive and i can't keep up with it as easy as console gaming:nohope:, but now that i'm getting wii soon, i'll have that to play awesome games in brand new incredible ways that i have never experienced when playing computer games.

Glad to hear that muffinman. I'll play you in Super Smah Bros. Soooooooon (ok not So soon... :p)


peace

[Mike Frank]

The system looks pretty cool but I'm not sure how well it will do with the market, could be a real hit though... If they make a wiimote based star wars game with lightsaber fighting than I'll have to buy it.

[Snuggles]

Oy, was just reading some opinions on the prices and games elsewhere, and I just wanted to throw my two cents out there... I'm not the only person that's had the thought that Nintendo's target market doesn't care about PS3 or 360 games? I mean, to your mom, or your girlfriend, or your dad or your grandparents, do they really take games seriously enough to want to be thrown into the bowels of war with a bloody, dark theme? Or do they wanna play with a cartoon character? I've heard folks on IGN say that when Johnny Minesweeper walks in and sees Red Steel next to Gears of War that he'll have no problem paying an extra 50 for a 360...but honestly, if you've got a 30 year old guy that cares about FPS's THAT much, what makes you think he wouldn't already have a 360? I think the issue here is that your mom's gonna see the commercial for Gears of War or Metal Gear Solid 4, and shrug it off as another violent video game. And then she's gonna see footage of Mario Galaxy or the next Nintendogs, and be genuinely pleased. To be honest, I know a lot of non-gamers in their 30's who have chuckled at DDR in the arcade, and still love to play air hockey, who would think playing baseball in your living room with cute, lego characters is the neatest thing ever.

[MuffinMan]

Oy, was just reading some opinions on the prices and games elsewhere, and I just wanted to throw my two cents out there... I'm not the only person that's had the thought that Nintendo's target market doesn't care about PS3 or 360 games? I mean, to your mom, or your girlfriend, or your dad or your grandparents, do they really take games seriously enough to want to be thrown into the bowels of war with a bloody, dark theme? Or do they wanna play with a cartoon character? I've heard folks on IGN say that when Johnny Minesweeper walks in and sees Red Steel next to Gears of War that he'll have no problem paying an extra 50 for a 360...but honestly, if you've got a 30 year old guy that cares about FPS's THAT much, what makes you think he wouldn't already have a 360? I think the issue here is that your mom's gonna see the commercial for Gears of War or Metal Gear Solid 4, and shrug it off as another violent video game. And then she's gonna see footage of Mario Galaxy or the next Nintendogs, and be genuinely pleased. To be honest, I know a lot of non-gamers in their 30's who have chuckled at DDR in the arcade, and still love to play air hockey, who would think playing baseball in your living room with cute, lego characters is the neatest thing ever.

well said, and that's exactly what alot of people in their 30's till 70's think.
my parents, their peers and my grandparents don't give a shit about video games. since its' all the same, just getting graphical upgrades and all that gimmicky shit. the wii is supposed to and will bring something new. My brother
showed my grandma "Brain Age" for nintendo DS and she loved it. she even thought about getting a nintendo ds to play that and other fun games. my grandma loves puzzle games and that DS takes it to the next level with touch screen and a microphone.

[N D Hill]

I think I'm going to wait a year after the launch date of the PS3 and Wii. Long enough for a possible price drop and by then, we'll see what's out in terms of games as they ultimately make or break the system. I will say this though, if it weren't for the Metroid Prime games, I'd have ditched my Cube a long time ago for a PS2. I'll have no interest in the Wii either if the trend of Nintendo getting stiffed by third-party developers continues. I'd remember watching previews of titles I'm sure I'd love but never get to play such as God of War, Tekken 5, Shadow of the Colossus and all of the other great action, fighting, racing and FPS shooters from developers who simply overlooked Nintendo completely. If that makes my tastes mainstream, fine by me. I think I've stuck with Nintendo long enough to know that it's no longer for me if all they're doing is coming up with revolutionary new ways to make Mario jump on Bowser's head and collect coins. Nintendo is pegged as a kiddy machine because for the greater part, it is. Sure, I know there are exceptional games and even some "kiddy" games that are probably a hoot, but I want my meat and potatoes.

Just two weeks ago, I traded in all of my gamecube games except the two Metroids and bought a used PS2 and a load of used games and I cannot tell you what a breath of fresh air it was. I'm not saying Nintendo or the Wii is bad, just that everyone has their foundation and target demographic. There's no use denying that. When you think about it, nintendo's not really doing much of anything revolutionary, just pushing themselves forward to the next logical extension of "Move that! Touch this! Look at the pretty colors" gaming experience. Arguably, every console has found it's comfort zone and all we're really getting is the new generation's technology applied to the same ideas and principles.

[nofingers]

I hope that the Wii does launch at $250 like it is being speculated. That would give a much needed advantage to Master N. I am getting really pumped about the Wii....me likely new zeldy