now Justin Sweet/JP Targete Gnomon dvds..so who will MB have?

[Madman!]

Alex over on cgtalk says they signed Justin Sweet and JP Targete and their dvds will be out in the summer...so now that the devil has claimed 2 more who will be on the Massive Black dvds?

[Interceptor]

people act as if it's some type of crazy competition between Massive Black and Gnomon. I don't see it that way, maybe I'm wrong though. I say good for them. If they're putting out DVDs, it will help people looking to learn (like me) regardless of who published it.

[Spacemanchuck]

Well Im guessing it would be people like Jason, Andrew, Marco, and the workshop crew. Hopefully Coro would do his infamouse tutorials. hey are suposed to be done in a more interesting style then the Gnomen Disks. Maybe Marko will show us the best way to down Redbull and vodka to make us draw like gods.

[Simonl]

Surely the most important thing is the clear demonstration of the artist's process and techniques, not 'interesting style'?

[BlueMech]

I haven't seen either of them, too expensive. But I think a clear demonstration sounds more useful.

[sone_one]

i dont think there should be any (bad) competition ... im looking forward to those

[Madman!]

btw I was just joking about them joining the devil, I think Jason made that comment about Puddnhead when his came out..as a joke also. I personally don't care I will buy all of MB and probably all the Gnomon dvds too..no competition in my eyes, it's kinda like painter and photoshop both are great.

I just wanted to know since so many are joining Gnomon who will be on the MB dvd list. If there's 24 dvds coming from MB then either some of the artists will have a couple disks each or there will be some newer faces having some dvds then. Plus why are these guys joining Gnomon they were part of the workshops I would think they would want to do the MB dvds.

[Simonl]

Maybe Gnomon are offering them a better deal.

[GNL]

I think the dvds are always good, at least to get an insight into how an artist works - but just watching some of the stuff wont make you any better - sometimes I find that you could turn the video off on a lot of the gnomon dvd's and just listen and gain as much. The Mccaig ones are the best i've seen imo, but i havent seen all the analog library. in some cases i've found, its just a fancy demo and almost useless.

hopefully the MB ones will get into the meat and bones of this stuff - i'd like to see a lot more "whys", than "hows" from the instructors.

g

[Main Loop]

people act as if it's some type of crazy competition between Massive Black and Gnomon. I don't see it that way, maybe I'm wrong though. I say good for them. If they're putting out DVDs, it will help people looking to learn (like me) regardless of who published it.

after skipping the prague workshop, ole puddnwood will not be attending any others. he is now a whipping boy at gnomon after he sold his soul for pennies on the dollar.


im willing to guess there's some sort of competition going on

[Simonl]

I've got a couple of Feng's (quick Sketching and Vehicle Sketching) and I found them very useful. I draw along with them, rather than sit and watch. Good technique and and bit of the thinking.

[Madman!]

Maybe Gnomon are offering them a better deal.

Well if that's the case then it does sound kinda bad. Those guys were part of MB and had sections on CA gallery. I can definitely understand wanting more money, but if your friends were putting out dvds and were supporting you the whole time I would think even over the money you would want to do your friends dvds. Plus I doubt they would be making that much more money. They probably get like a percent for each disk and since MB will be cheaper more people will probably buy them. If anything it would probably come out about even.

Andrew has a book coming out from cgtalk now too so if the offer was good enough would he join gnomon too. I would rather see a MB Andrew Jones video than a gnomon one, not because of the competition but because I'm sure MB will have a different set up and it have more content since he's tied to MB.

[BlackGuy]

maybe they're doing DVDs for both covering different topics?

[Simonl]

I don't think it sounds bad because I have no idea at all what business and or personal arrangements are in place between the various parties. It's all speculation, anyway.

[Interceptor]

im willing to guess there's some sort of competition going on

I know the quote. but I don't think Jason will discredit a bunch of other artists, and outcast a whole group like that because of the actions of one individual.

[Simonl]

I don't know if JM would but there seems to be people on the forum who are very ready to do it, because they think it is what he would want.

All this stuff about MB vs Gnomon is the same old crappy mac vs PC, Photoshop vs Painter, Coke Vs Pepsi argument. It's tired, guys. Let it go.

[Dan.v.D.]

gnomon should do a roundeye one haha

[sone_one]

i dont see why someone couldnt do a dvd for gnomon and still be part of mb or vice versa... but maybe im not into these politics as much to see the obstacles.

[Madman!]

Well it kinda does mean something because like for me I really want to go to a MB workshop and one of my big reasons was to see Justin's session. If you look at the workshop instructor list he and JP aren't on it, maybe they will be added later who knows, Puddnhead is off the list so there's one gone for sure. I mean I would still kill to go to one, all the artists on it are awesome and I would want to go just as much as I did for the last one. Still some people want to learn stuff from certin artists, Justin does things differently than say Feng and now it seems if you go to a workshop you won't get to see some of them..so it is a bummer in a way.

Your coke vs pepsi, etc are good examples. They may taste close to the same, but some people like one over the other and are willing to pay more for the one they like. Yet if Coke bought Pepsi(or photoshop and painter) and turned the teste all to what Coke tastes like people would have nothing really to choose from. Plus if Gnomon can buy these guys then maybe if they keep getting more and more maybe MB won't have enough people to generate a lot of interest in people wanting to go to the workshops and they'll have to stop doing them...and of course that would happen probably when I could finally be able to go to one and then I would be super pissed.

All that aside I just want to know who will be on the MB dvds.

[sone_one]

i still dont see why it has to be 1 vs the other ...

why cant someone who does gnomon dvds be an instructor on mb workshops?

[Simonl]

Contractual obligations would be the obvious answer. MB and Gnomon are competing for the same consumers with these DVDs, so exclusivity could be good for business. This is all wild-arse speculation though.

[Interceptor]

What I was originally getting at is'nt why some artists are'nt working for both companies. But why some people feel that when they support one company, they have to swear thier entire allegiance on it, and try to crush all who oppose it. It's like people seem to think they can't like Massive Black without absolutely hating Gnomon.

[Simonl]

In full agreement with you there, Interceptor.

[Jason Manley]

Maybe Gnomon are offering them a better deal.


nope....

[Denart]

how much does feng get paid for 1 gnomon dvd? :D

[Simonl]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonl
Maybe Gnomon are offering them a better deal.



nope....
__________________As I admitted previously, wild-arse speculation.

[Interceptor]

This is kind of funny, actually. The only people involved in the discussion have nothing to do with either company. Save for Jason's short remark.

[Madman!]

Interceptor are your comments directed at me?

[Interceptor]

Woh, man, no way. I'm one of the least confrontational people here, lol. I was just making a general observation of what I've seen on the forums. Please don't take it the wrong way.

[Madman!]

Ah okay just checking cause I'll admit I am one of the people that post a lot about the Gnomon dvds. I just want Jason/mods to know I'm not doing it to have people choose sides or anything. I love concept art(the art form) and these artists and the dvds are big concept art news in my opinion for here or anywhere. Some threads were deleted in the past though, so it's hard to know what to post specially when the people were/are they friends from here..I wouldn't post about them at all but they are people that are involved here, so I figure people want to know about them.

Jason can we know why did they go over to Gnomon?..if it wasn't the money. Are they still involved with MB/CA? and can we know who will be on the MB dvds?

[pogonip]

Just buy the DVD of the artist you like from MB or Gnomon I don't see the issue here . The only diffrence I see is that MB is for the artist and community and Gnomon is for the profit . Are you saying that they contractually cannot do a DVD for MB now ? Like Feng,Ryan Church..etc etc cannot do MB DVD's also ?

[Madman!]

Just buy the DVD of the artist you like from MB or Gnomon I don't see the issue here

Well for one if the money wasn't an issue then they could've done them for MB and if MB dvds were I think someone (maybe Jason) were going to be 40$ and Gnomon are 69$ that's 30$ more per disk. Gnomon usually have 2-4 disks per artists if you get Justin, JP and Puddnhead cds now that means you'll have to pay 180-300$ more for..what? that's kinda a good reason maybe not to buy them. Without knowing the reason why they did it sounds like they weren't thinking of the people who are going to watch them. If they did it for something else then that's a different story.

[Simonl]

So you're trying to compare the potential price of the Gnomon DVD's against a non existent MB equivalent and saying that that is a good reason not to buy the Gnomon disks?
:xpld:

Sweet and Targete are working with Gnomon. Get over it. They're not going to cancel their contracts and rearrange their businesses just to make you happy.

[Madman!]

well no need to be rude, I never said they had to change to make me happy and if you read what I said earlier I will still be buying these dvds. Even so money is kinda a good reason to want to know what is happening..I don't know about you but I don't a tree in the backyard that has money growing on it, Jason did say the MB dvds will cost less. I never said I cared about that or had an issue about it. The whole discussion in this thread was why they decided to go with Gnomon. Nobody said anyone had to choose sides or was angry about anything..just a simple wanting to know why they're are putting out dvds with another group when the group they are with are also putting out dvds.

[jetpack42]

this thread makes my head hurt.

[Spacemanchuck]

Surely the most important thing is the clear demonstration of the artist's process and techniques, not 'interesting style'?

I was only repeating what I read in another thread about the MB disks being more interesting to watch because other un named DVDs make you fall asleep. It was something to that effect.

To the worry warts out there you really shouldn't be getting your panties all up in a bunch about this shit, let them handle their shit and all will work out fine. It's promoting competition that will most likely benifit the comunity, so turn that frown upside down.

[Simonl]

Hey Madman, sorry if I came off as rude, but it seemed like you were arguing for a boycott of Sweet and Targete for going with Gnomon.

[Madman!]

If you talking to me here's this again..

Nobody said anyone had to choose sides or was angry about anything..just a simple wanting to know why they're are putting out dvds with another group when the group they are with are also putting out dvds.

[Spacemanchuck]

It ain't no thang but a chicken wang S. NO boycotting here, I don't really get what all the comotion is about truthfully, I was just saying they are gonna be different products from what I hear. One way or the other though, it's good stuff and I look forward to seeing both. I dont have the kinda cash for it, but Im lucky cause where I go to school at the Art Institute of Seattle I can rent them from the Library. Hopefully if and when the MB disks come out I can do the same.

[Madman!]

It's cool Simonl.

Just want to make it clear I don't care about the competition or was angry about anything or that I don't like Justin JP or anyone. Just wanted to know what I quoted above.

I guess maybe cause my name is Madman! everyone thinks I'm angry or something.

[Spacemanchuck]

Don't worry madman, I get the same thing with spaceman.

[Madman!]

Spacemanchunk you go to AIS that's were I went to school..cool. Damn your lucky they didn't have gnomon disks when I was going. What are you taking animation, graphic design. Does Abbott Smith still teach there? he was the best teacher I had there.

[Elwell]

High School!