graff it!

[sadgas]

how do you think about graffiti around you?
i'm graffitti writer & designer..and this life style influences me and my stuff...
how many people at CA are graffiti writers too?
how do you think about this style as a influence in modern arts?

for me,as designer...graffiti is the need of people knows your name,and the visual language that we use is the same that we use to sell products that we design....

gaffiti writers of CA:union makes force!
contact me and we do a group to increase skills and smuggle information

[vigostar]

wow this sounds serious.....
Im retired though... Dribs aka Gamer.....

[Interceptor]

I never minded graffiti, but I never really looked at it as 'art' until I came to CA and stumbled onto some of coro's work. Now I'm always looking around for good stuff in my city. Although, anything decent here is hard to come by.

[el coro]

i love graf. it saved my life. while i dont do "graf" styled things as of late, its foundations and philosophies have been a consistent theme in everything i do from concept design to realist oil painting. i still paint occaisionally, hopefully as soon as it fucking stops raining up here, we gonna get down again. its that time of the year. but yeah, the art has saved my life. god knows what id be doing if i hadnt found graffiti.-c36
-edit: haha interceptor yer too fukkin nice dood. well im glad i could help make you more graf aware :D

[Tobin]

I like graffiti thats good unfortunatly 90% of it on walls is just bad, i mean I like the idea of putting art in an urban setting but i dont like the idea of idiots with spray cans writing tags everywhere.

As far as its influence, I dont know if you guys have heard of banksy, but he has had a fairly big impact on post modernism hehe. look him up. www.banksy.co.uk

I know its not graffiti in classical terms, haha, but some clever works.

[Pixeldragoon]

To me there are 2 kinds of graffiti. There is GRAFFITI, and there is the stuff people try to write in spraypaint all nifty like, nothing special. Which really, I don't think qualifies seeing has how it's writing, not painting.

Keith Herring had some kinda cool stuff, though I'm not sure how much it qualifies as "Graffiti".

I like the arrows and designs and patterns, new fonts, funky characters, stuff like that. I wish there were more rag-tag gangs of graff artists, who rampaged cities on skates with giant headphones and doing tricks.

Or just the gang thing would be cool. I want to try spraypainting too.

[cotron]

Or just the gang thing would be cool. I want to try spraypainting too.

Here is a myth debunked- everyone who does graffiti is not in a gang!

I came from a similar spot as coro, graffiti really opened my eyes to a lot of things. I wouldn't have had the drive or confidence to get better at making art, or even known that there were so many different types of art.. I did it for about 2 years consistently, going out 2-3 nights a week and painting productions on the weekends... to me it was awesome to meet people and get out to make art for the sake of it, all the ego aside. The danger of painting was fun too, lots of crazy stories from it.

Plus, when you paint a wall, it's fucking big! That was probably the most satisfying part. :P

[invinciblewombat]

http://www.woostercollective.com/ is a great place to find grafiti that's not just some kids with a spray can writing their names all over everything, a lot of it is almost more of instilation art.

[Onir]

Before I was serious about art in my life, bboying and hip hop culture really were the first few things I grew to love and become passionate about (not that I'm not anymore, still trying to get better at bboying, but it's not a priority in my life like art is). along with bboying and hip hop came graf, and I've always loved it; don't get me wrong, I can't do it to save my life but it's always just been something I've admired. I always check out threads here on CA that involve it when I can, though I usually don't say anything.. in terms of modern art that has incorporated elements of graf, honestly those pieces are usually the first among modern/abstract art that attract me :P

thanks for the site invinciblewombat! gonna have to look through it

[Chingwa]

Well, while I really respect and even love some graffitti art I'm also conflicted because the majority of what I see can also be described as vandalism. on my subway ride home every night, looking out the window graffitti is everywhere and while some of it has real artistic merit (and some of it is just downright inspiring!) more and more I see popping up all over the place is shit! Not only is the graffitti shit but it's defacing buildings and making them, and even entire neighborhoods look like shit. If I owned one of those buildings I would be outraged!

I used to live next door to this deli who had a nice sized wall around the corner. I watched as it got covered in (bad) graffitti... then repainted to cover it up, and then covered in graffitti again. Each time the owner would try to repaint his wall within a week it was covered in mindless scrawl again. eventually the owner gave up. That just ain't right.

So how do you balance out work with artistic merit and the scrawl? Is there a difference to a building's owner when his property is marked with good graf and when it's marked with bad? I sometimes see places that are specifically devoted to graffitti artists... is this a good thing or is it limiting the creativity (kinda like a fuckin' "free speech zone")?

I dunno. I'm conflicted. Anyone care to comment?

[Mort]

i was doing alot of graffitti in my younger days. "im so old :p" but more tags then nice pictures.

and now when i see grafitti i can tell what building ppl think is the most boring one. never though of that before. we where just trying to make the gray cities look nicer.


grafitti is a combination between territory marks and art. its like future cave paintings. but with cans instead of coal bits.

when i see bad grafitti at a deasent building i get annoyed. but when i see awesome graffiti at a ugly building i get pleased.


still want to rip out my can and spray something on some buildings today hehe.

[Alcian]

Chingwa, I see what you mean. I love stencil graffiti, Im really interested in banksy's work and I see the artisitic quality to it. But like most things, there is the right place for it and the wrong place. Banksy is wrong when he says that all surfaces are a canvas. Just like I don't want to see advertising displayed everywhere, I don't want to see graffiti everywhere.

Yet sometimes when I go to London I will look out for interesting pieces, because I appreciate an aspect of it. But not everyone does. Art shouldn't be imposed on people, but graffiti artists need a place to paint - in a way, having these hidden dedicated zones defeats the whole aspect of graffiti, because people don't see it. So to me, its not just the quality of the work, its where its painted.

[Pixeldragoon]

I didn't intend to say that they WERE gangs, just that a group of taggers WOULD be awesome.

[dfacto]

Graffiti is shit. Sorry all you fans out there, but as you've already said, there's the art, and then there's the scribbles. In my whole life, living in the SF bay area, here in Hannover, and traveling around europe, the overwhelming majority of graffiti I've seen has been an eyesore. Really, I'd rather not have to read about "fuck this", "so and so rules" or other crap while walking to the grocery store.

That being said, some of the good graffiti is pretty damn sweet, and makes me wish that that kind of work was legal. I was in Athens over the summer and there was quite a bit of interesting graffiti near the Acropolis. I only took one pic of one wall unfortunately, but it was really refreshing to see some graffiti that was more than ghetto lettering and profanity. Although, come to think of it, the text is probably swear words, but I can't read greek. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/dfunkt/P1011081.jpg

[aesir]

I'd rather see graffiti covering all the walls in my city rather than a bunch of worthless advertisements for crap I'll never want.

[Gilead]

There's lots of interesting stuff out there and many great artist come from that background. However if you hope to convince the world that there is no association between gangs and graffiti you have a long road ahead of you.
The rest of the world makes that connection VERY strongly including the gangs themselves and the taggers who work for them.
I do signs all over Phoenix which has as much of a gang problem as anywhere. When my signs get tagged I get very upset.
I've seen shop keepers go out of business because they can't keep the graffiti off their buildings and the City fines them for it.
I don't always hate the paintings nor do I hate the painters, but in most cases people who think they're battling "The Institution" really have no clue what the institution is. All they wind up doing is hurting local individuals who would have been their friends if they'd let them.
If you want to paint large outdoor murals do it and get paid for it, but don't ruin some other guy's property and convince yourself that you're raging against the machine. You're only raging against Phil the washing machine repair guy who never did you a bit of harm.
That's my stand for what it's worth.

[waronmars]

graffiti for the sake of art = cool
graffiti for the sake of scrawling your name over shit = lame

I probably don't know enough about the culture to make a judgement, but that's the way I see it.

[Pixeldragoon]

Actually, I never though of Graff artists being in gangs... I always imagined individuals. To me, gang actvity = shootings, drugs, ho's, but not graffiti.

[cotron]

I didn't intend to say that they WERE gangs, just that a group of taggers WOULD be awesome.

You mean like a crew? What a great idea!

[ArlandoBattle]

Graffiti seems so hard to do properly, i thnk ive seen some of coros work for some reason i have a purple jimi hendrix profile embellished in my brain that someon graffitied in california i believe it was you, coro.

[Molly]

..I have a friend who is a grafitti artist, and hes been commissioned to do a mural on a wall of a youth centre in south east London. I've been chatting to him for the last few days, and I'm considering doing a few colabs with him, becuse the medium of spray paint is an awesome thing. I have no idea how to start off, but Im sure Wayne, (my mate) will help me.
Graffiti is encouraged here in London, theres a place in Brixton people go to to practice and view other peoples work. My mates been bugging me to go give it a go. So as soon as, Im there

Sadgas - maybe you should start a thread for Graffiti art only....lets see who else on CA does this type of work:)

Mx

[waronmars]

There was a graffiti challenge thread started a while back, it denegrated to shit talking, and I don't think anything ever eventuated. I think a thread of people's photos of graffiti art they like ( ie the member takes their own photo of some art in their city, not just pulls off the net) would be a cool idea, that way non graff artists can feel cool too...

[merc78]

I like graf, a lot. I've been inspired by it as well. But unfortunatly theres two sides to every coin. First you have the talented individuals, that do "peices" or murals or bombs and the myriad of other terms used. Then you have, what I believe to be the problem, the casual tagger. Some one who gets into graf because they think it's cool. And are more worried about getting well known in there city by scribbling there name as much and on as many places as possible in a short amount of time, rather than develop there artistic talent.

A good reference for any one that wants to understand the subculture a little better is the movie "Style Wars". It is a full length documentary on how it all started. It also has dialogue with (at the time and some still) famed writers from NY, and even follows them as they do there thing. it's quite entertaining.

[sadgas]

if you don't know anything of graffitti as art look these:

urban disciplines books(germany edition;incredible)
toast(the best letter graffitti writer of the world)
os gemeos(brasilian graffitti artists)
dibone(from spain...sweet home)

and search about meeting of styles(world meeting of graffitti artist...look this,very good stuffs)

and finally:
www.graffiti.org

look this and say again that graffiti isn't art

[waronmars]

Dude nobody said that it isn't art, the fact is graffiti is often vandalism and costs other people who are trying to make a living cash to clean up. Graffiti often is beatiful and improves bad areas in towns, but of course people are going to get shat off when the front of their shop or a wall of their home gets meaningless tags sprayed all over it. Like alot of people have already said, there is two sides to the coin.

Like your title says, a mind is like a parachute, it only functions when it's open, well open your mind to the possibility that while graffiti is often awesome to look at, it can be harmful to property owners and other members of the public.

[Friso]

I have always been fascinated by graffiti but although i tried it a couple of times and filled some books with sketches for my styles, I never really got into it.
At first I only liked high quality walls or trains, but now i even like all the tags and "ugly" stuff, I feel greeted by it, its like someone says hello to you.
In my opinion it all depends on how you react to it.
I dont like buildings blocking our sight on nature, but since that seems a necessary evil, everyone should at least be able paint stuff on it.
I dont have a problem with others having more money than me.
But buying the right to make us see what they want us to see really goes too far.
Everyone who goes out bombing is my hero...wether they like it or not and even if i cant stand them or their style.

[acuna_read]

But buying the right to make us see what they want us to see really goes too far.
But painting it to make us see what someone else want's to see should be acceptable? Not saying it is or isnt, just posing the question.

[Friso]

yeah but in my naive utopia at least everyone can paint wherever they like, so its not an exclusive privilege like raising walls or putting up adverts, and the system wont rage against shop owners for having some letters on theirs shops that they didnt even put there (like Gilead mentioned)...still cant believe that this is legal

[Cthogua]

I love graffiti now. Growing up I never really had much exposure to it though, as I lived in a fairly rural area. Occasionally someone would spray something satanic (the town I lived in was HEAVILY southern baptist) on someones barn...usually a poorly drawn pentagram or a 666. It wasn't until I went to college and my parents moved to Washington, DC that I started riding a train from North Carolina to DC during breaks. That train went through alot of abandoned industrial areas and really poor neighborhoods in cities, places where graffiti tends to flourish. I saw some stuff that really blew my mind. I got pretty heavily into looking at graff and the styles and things that were being done. I was never much good at it though, the crazy letterforms always gave me trouble. Anyway about a year later I had a pretty intense LSD experience involving graffiti letterforms. I was laying in my bed in an attempt to get comfortable, and while I didn't fall asleep, I sort of tranced out and I don't really remember a physical perception of my body. However what I do remember is collosal, twisting forms all around me (my perspective anyway...like I said I don't really remember having a body) These forms would slam together and start twisting in 3 dimensional space around eachother. Parts would break off and fold up, other parts would fit into spaces of others like puzzle pieces. The effect was similar to when the brick wall folds open to reveal the magical shopping street in the first Harry Potter movie, except on a massive seeming scale (and a few years prior.) That vision later inspired some life drawing stuff that I did...the teachers liked it but they thought I was drawing robots...really it was graffiti inspired, internal psychedelic collisions.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i283/cthogua/eight.jpghttp://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i283/cthogua/ten.jpg

[Gilead]

Those graf bots are cool.

[Big-Dave]

Considering the fact that a lot of the buildings in Scotland are granite I wish we had more of the colourful stuff to liven things up a bit. Barcelona has some good stuff up though if you ever visit (funnily enough on a lane going down beside the modern art gallery and accross from the design gallery there's a whole wall of pretty good stuff)

But yeah, personally I like the more complicated tags or things in difficult areas like the top of bridges. Stencilling can look pretty good too, although I've heard of a few graffiti artists who aren't fans, seeing it as too easy

[Simonl]

Leaving aside arguments about artistic merits of murals, I have a major problem with a person, the graffitist, totally ignoring the wishes of the property owner(s) by spraying a mural on their building.

I don't generally like tagging. The only exception I will admit is Eternity. This guy haunted Sydney for 30 years or so and wrote 'Eternity' all over the place. His medium of choice was chalk, so there's a nice irony in his choice of tag. He wrote in copperplate, so his tag was the result of skill and a thing of beauty. He tagged all over the city and semi regularly, so you never knew where or when you would find him. This guy is admirable, because he did a beautiful tag and did no harm.

[A.Cerasoli]

I love graffiti, it's what sparked my intrest in art originally. During my teenage years thats all I was into. Me and my freinds use to buy a case of beer and "borrow" :) paint from any place that had spray paint and go writng in differnt freight yards. Freight trains were my favorite to write on but when I started writing highways were the big thing.I believe that was in 1992. I still do love graffiti too. I have at least 50 books on the subject, 30 or more videos and like 3 blackbooks filled from other writers around the Bronx. I would not write illegally anymore though. Also when me and my friends would go writing we never meant anything personally against anyone if we defaced their property. Although I can definitly see why they would take it personallly. We were just a bunch of bored little brats. Anyway yea I love graffiti.

[Phaethon]

Anyone here read Copper (http://www.boltcity.com/copper/copper_012_freestyle.htm)?

[sadgas]

I love graffiti now. Growing up I never really had much exposure to it though, as I lived in a fairly rural area. Occasionally someone would spray something satanic (the town I lived in was HEAVILY southern baptist) on someones barn...usually a poorly drawn pentagram or a 666. It wasn't until I went to college and my parents moved to Washington, DC that I started riding a train from North Carolina to DC during breaks. That train went through alot of abandoned industrial areas and really poor neighborhoods in cities, places where graffiti tends to flourish. I saw some stuff that really blew my mind. I got pretty heavily into looking at graff and the styles and things that were being done. I was never much good at it though, the crazy letterforms always gave me trouble. Anyway about a year later I had a pretty intense LSD experience involving graffiti letterforms. I was laying in my bed in an attempt to get comfortable, and while I didn't fall asleep, I sort of tranced out and I don't really remember a physical perception of my body. However what I do remember is collosal, twisting forms all around me (my perspective anyway...like I said I don't really remember having a body) These forms would slam together and start twisting in 3 dimensional space around eachother. Parts would break off and fold up, other parts would fit into spaces of others like puzzle pieces. The effect was similar to when the brick wall folds open to reveal the magical shopping street in the first Harry Potter movie, except on a massive seeming scale (and a few years prior.) That vision later inspired some life drawing stuff that I did...the teachers liked it but they thought I was drawing robots...really it was graffiti inspired, internal psychedelic collisions.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i283/cthogua/eight.jpghttp://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i283/cthogua/ten.jpg



man...your style looks good..have you a photo from any piece on walls?
i paint machines too..mixed with other mechanik elements as turntables...
caution with lsd...if you go,is possible that you can't go to yourself...
sometimes,i had used marihuana to xperiment different ways

respekts!

[sadgas]

Dude nobody said that it isn't art, the fact is graffiti is often vandalism and costs other people who are trying to make a living cash to clean up. Graffiti often is beatiful and improves bad areas in towns, but of course people are going to get shat off when the front of their shop or a wall of their home gets meaningless tags sprayed all over it. Like alot of people have already said, there is two sides to the coin.

Like your title says, a mind is like a parachute, it only functions when it's open, well open your mind to the possibility that while graffiti is often awesome to look at, it can be harmful to property owners and other members of the public.


i'm not saying that all graffiti is art..
vandalism is a part of the culture of hip hop,isn't art.but it is another way to protest against the system..that is the real originary premise of the hip hop culture:"be yourself,do it yourself".
the vandalism is the need of the graffiti writer to gives to knows himself to the rest of the writers an the society.
this is vandalism for me:good when is against public places and industries..but bad when is against private properties.
i had paint on train when was young...

by other ways..the artistic graffiti that i reffer is the graffiti on murals..
the good graffiti that you can't buy(here is the atractive).

thanks for your interest friend!

[Wetterschneider]

There are other non-vandalism ways to be creative... like going crazy on a midget redbird.

http://www.allcitystyle.com/images/art/news/TTS_gallery_02.jpg

[capncackalacka]

man you guys got it all wrong. you are all failing to realize that tagging is the yin to the yang of piecing. look at a twist or revok hand style and tell me theres no artistry in it. handstyles are the basis and root of graf. to say you dont like the tagging and only like the big colorful pieces is spittin in the face of the culture. i wouldnt expect y'all to get it since this is a "concept art forum" and not a forum for street art. i understand that. but have respect to those who risk their lives and limbs for their art. its more than i can say for the vocation of concept art, which at best is making derivitive illustrations done sitting on ones ass in the safety of their homes or offices. what are they doing thats so great? great art is only partly about solid technique. the philosophy and intent play a large role as well. the street is a canvas to a graf artist, and the grittiness of handstyles and throwies make it a more beautiful place in my opinion. think im wrong? so do all the rest of the soft fat ignorant public. if you are comfortable sharing the sentiments of all the 80 year old ladies across the world, then you are definitely ready to be assimilated into the retardedness of the general public. you all call yourselves artists, but all im smellin is fartists.-tag-o-rama....

[Wetterschneider]

I didn't get the impression from the posts upthread that there was some major insulting and dismissive attitude towards aerosol culture going on. I am seeing open-minded discussion, some war stories by actual artists, and questions being posed. I doubt there is anyone out there who doesn't agree that "great art is only partly about solid technique. the philosophy and intent play a large role as well" and keeps it in mind at all times.

Sorry if our fartist stink is offending you.

[evildisco]

man you guys got it all wrong. you are all failing to realize that tagging is the yin to the yang of piecing. look at a twist or revok hand style and tell me theres no artistry in it. handstyles are the basis and root of graf. to say you dont like the tagging and only like the big colorful pieces is spittin in the face of the culture. i wouldnt expect y'all to get it since this is a "concept art forum" and not a forum for street art. i understand that. but have respect to those who risk their lives and limbs for their art. its more than i can say for the vocation of concept art, which at best is making derivitive illustrations done sitting on ones ass in the safety of their homes or offices. what are they doing thats so great? great art is only partly about solid technique. the philosophy and intent play a large role as well. the street is a canvas to a graf artist, and the grittiness of handstyles and throwies make it a more beautiful place in my opinion. think im wrong? so do all the rest of the soft fat ignorant public. if you are comfortable sharing the sentiments of all the 80 year old ladies across the world, then you are definitely ready to be assimilated into the retardedness of the general public. you all call yourselves artists, but all im smellin is fartists.-tag-o-rama....


Who are you?Why are you passing judgement on us?

[A.Cerasoli]

capncackalacka, have you even read the post leading up to yours?

[capncackalacka]

Who are you?Why are you passing judgement on us?
im not passing judgement on you. i am responding to the general consensus held in this thread that the only good graffiti is the colorful legal stuff, and that tags dont merit the same level of respect that the polished stuff does. that would be the equivalent of me saying that robot designs have more merit than creature designs. that creature designers dont have the same skills that robot designers have. that is an ignorant remark since they are both very valid parts of concept design, and both require a good deal of skill to be able to do successfully. but to see comments with the sentiment that "good graf is pretty colorful stuff that takes time, and illegal tags are stupid" is a naive attitude to be sporting. dont judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes...i think some famous guy said that once.

[capncackalacka]

capncackalacka, have you even read the post leading up to yours?
ummmm...yeah i have. thats why i felt compelled to respond. here are a few of my favorite quotes:

"I like graffiti thats good unfortunatly 90% of it on walls is just bad, i mean I like the idea of putting art in an urban setting but i dont like the idea of idiots with spray cans writing tags everywhere. "


"To me there are 2 kinds of graffiti. There is GRAFFITI, and there is the stuff people try to write in spraypaint all nifty like, nothing special. Which really, I don't think qualifies seeing has how it's writing, not painting. "


"http://www.woostercollective.com/ is a great place to find grafiti that's not just some kids with a spray can writing their names all over everything, a lot of it is almost more of instilation art."

"I used to live next door to this deli who had a nice sized wall around the corner. I watched as it got covered in (bad) graffitti... then repainted to cover it up, and then covered in graffitti again. Each time the owner would try to repaint his wall within a week it was covered in mindless scrawl again. eventually the owner gave up. That just ain't right."

"Graffiti is shit. Sorry all you fans out there, but as you've already said, there's the art, and then there's the scribbles. In my whole life, living in the SF bay area, here in Hannover, and traveling around europe, the overwhelming majority of graffiti I've seen has been an eyesore. Really, I'd rather not have to read about "fuck this", "so and so rules" or other crap while walking to the grocery store."

"The rest of the world makes that connection VERY strongly including the gangs themselves and the taggers who work for them. "

"graffiti for the sake of scrawling your name over shit = lame"

"Then you have, what I believe to be the problem, the casual tagger. Some one who gets into graf because they think it's cool. And are more worried about getting well known in there city by scribbling there name as much and on as many places as possible in a short amount of time, rather than develop there artistic talent.
"
"I don't generally like tagging. "

these opinions are very ill informed. see why i felt compelled to respond?

[Chingwa]

well, I can definately see some negativity toward graffitti in this thread. capncackalacka's right in that in general there's a misunderstanding here about the art he loves. I can accept some people find all forms of graffitti to be art and not just the large colorful stuff.

However the questions in my post still stand. capncackalacka how do you distinguish between vandalism and art. or do you? Not all graffitti is being painted onto walls owned by blood suckin' corporations and conglomerates. What about the private property owner's right to not have his building defaced by marks he didn't agree to have put on his own building? how does one justify art when it infringes on the rights of others?

[aesir]

man you guys got it all wrong. you are all failing to realize that tagging is the yin to the yang of piecing. look at a twist or revok hand style and tell me theres no artistry in it. handstyles are the basis and root of graf. to say you dont like the tagging and only like the big colorful pieces is spittin in the face of the culture. i wouldnt expect y'all to get it since this is a "concept art forum" and not a forum for street art. i understand that. but have respect to those who risk their lives and limbs for their art. its more than i can say for the vocation of concept art, which at best is making derivitive illustrations done sitting on ones ass in the safety of their homes or offices. what are they doing thats so great? great art is only partly about solid technique. the philosophy and intent play a large role as well. the street is a canvas to a graf artist, and the grittiness of handstyles and throwies make it a more beautiful place in my opinion. think im wrong? so do all the rest of the soft fat ignorant public. if you are comfortable sharing the sentiments of all the 80 year old ladies across the world, then you are definitely ready to be assimilated into the retardedness of the general public. you all call yourselves artists, but all im smellin is fartists.-tag-o-rama....


while I read it, I subconsciously went: oooooooooooooo snap

ITS ON BITCH!

nah i kid, I really dont care. Im too lazy to give a shit

<------ fat ignorant public.

[Wetterschneider]

When you find ill-informed opinions being expressed then step up and promote the full reality of the art. That would be helpful.

It is a perfectly legitimate opinion for people to have that throw-ups aren't as appealing as full blown pieces. When you start out explaining how they are connected, cool. When you say people who like one and dislike the other are "spittin in the face of the culture" well, I don't know... I don't think they are being that aggresive.

Some of these guys are artists and have done work on the streets, some aren't. But we are all open-minded and willing to learn.

Point out the risks involved, and people will have respect. Insult someone's chosen profession "its more than i can say for the vocation of concept art, which at best is making derivitive illustrations done sitting on ones ass" and you won't be changing anyone's minds because they are just going to shut down on you.

Give up some links to some examples of what you are trying to teach here, illuminate and illustrate your point and you will change minds. Leave the insults and generalizations out, it just doesn't help.

[capncackalacka]

yer totally right it doesnt help. i wouldnt have even responded to this thread had there not been insults and generalizations about graffiti in the first place. if people are going to come on here and hurl insults at writers for doing what they do, then they should at least be able to take it when they get checked for their chosen form of artistic expression. concept art for the most part is very derivative, and is done in the safety of an office or studio. thems the facts...not an opinion. im not into trying to change anyones mind about anything, but if i see ignorant statements about a certian type of artform made by people who dont know the real, i feel the need to at least bring it to their attention, especially if its about an artform i know well and love intimitely...

[skvv]

graffiti needs a better word, but wall art sounds lame and that's all i can think of. might as well stick to calling it murals.

why? graffiti, the diminutive means graffio (drawing or scribbling) which is essentially what gang tags are (names/property)... bullshit. however graffiti ART i agree is something that can be truly badass.

needs a better name though, it's like calling a fullblown painting a sketch.

[cotron]

I think of the graffiti world as a gallery with an open submission policy, or an open mic night at a comedy club... that's the beauty and the curse of it, there's always gonna be more shitty people than good, but the good ones always shine- and without the venue of graffiti, a lot of the skilled people would be holed up somewhere, and the world wouldn't get to see their point of view.

The world of commercial design has been tremendously affected by the graff aesthetic, more than people realize, too... I'm always wondering where the line is drawn when you can put big stupid billboards advertising a product all over the street, in a cab, on a bus, etc.- but someone putting up something of their own accord is considered vandalism that encroaches on people's personal space. I don't mind seeing bombs on walls that otherwise would be advertising McDonald's or Ipods, etc...

Of course, it's shitty when someone's mom and pop shop gets toyed up, but that's the nature of the beast in urban sprawl. It's unfortunate, but it happens. Too many people in one place means that there will be people getting fucked over by other people. There are the small stores that make concessions to the fact that graffiti will happen no matter what, and they get people to put good looking pieces on their buildings- usually this will keep the toys from scrawling on it... it's adaptability on the store owner's part, and not to sound silly, but it's survival of the fittest. Gates on the doors and bars on the windows look bad too, but it's a concession that has to be made for the store to stay in business. I think there will always be graffiti in the cities, especially as more people want to be separated from the crowd and have less and less ability to do so. It's not something that can be simply overlooked.

Personally, I'm not down with certain aspects of bombing and tagging, things like glass-etch bother me, so I couldn't do something like that in good conscience... on the other hand I like the idea of people changing the look of their surroundings and adding individual voices - especially in places that are communal and paid for with their tax money.

Of course it's a criminal and marginalized activity, so there are never steadfast rules or a group conscience of what's acceptable or not. Some people want to go out and destroy things, while others want to make a visual contribution to the places they live. I really think the first group would be or are doing things that are fucked up anyway, but the "bad" graffiti is a visual reminder that all is not well in the world. So, is it a case of graffiti culture being the problem, or just indiviuals who don't have conscience? I think it's the latter, personally.

rant rant rant fart shit fart

[Wetterschneider]

Some interesting interviews and projects and the Flickr pool for the always incredible Wooster Collective.

Interesting interview with EWOK 5MH. (http://www.bldd.nl/ewok-5mh-you-better-believe-it-2/)

Font Interviews Style Master RIME (http://www.fontshop.com/fontfeed/archives/rime_interview.cfm)

The Exchange Project also on FontShop (http://www.fontshop.com/fontfeed/archives/_over_3_decades.cfm)

Wooster Collective Pool on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/groups/wooster/pool/)

[vigostar]

Cotron- I think you really nailed it on the head.

I used to graff all the time in the late 80's and early 90's but, it was more of a rebelious action then something thats done for a "higher" purpose. After becoming a bit more mature I quit the tagging and basically did books or free walls. I honestly do not see the purpose of splattering your name around the city (when I was doing it was "cool" to do) but, now when I think about it, it seems more like a case egotism rather then someone who wants to get a message across. They are few far and wide that actually do the "vandalism" for higher purposes that go out of their way to vandalize something because they need to be heard and finding other means to do so are sometimes non-exsistant. Whats the purpose of "crowning" someone, or "ragging" them its like I want to pick a fight because you got a good spot on the wall? Let's be serious about this for a minute... Think about this notion. Ridiculous. Im a firm believer in non vandalism UNLESS that Graff artist has a real purpose for his tagging unless thats the factor I think it just sleezes up the cities more then they already are.

[Wetterschneider]

"Im a firm believer in non vandalism UNLESS that Graff artist has a real purpose for his tagging"

That sounds a lot like basic civil disobedience, or breaking a law to make a social or political point. Where it differs, though, is that in civil disobedience as defined by Thoreau and Ghandi, the key is the aspect of being polite, and fucking up someone else's property is definitely not polite.

On another note, carrying a fat marker in NYC is against the law if you are under 21, no matter if you are an art student working on a project. Possessing a can of spray paint will get you arrested, if you are under 21, even if you are painting your bike. This is a fucked up law that has taken pefectly reasonable activities and turned them criminal. I am not clear how something is supposed to reduce crime, by making more people into lawbreakers, but whatever.