Copyrights questions

[JL.Alfaro]

Does anyone here know how to go about copyrighting a character, or concept?? how can you make sure that no one else is using something similar to the character you have created??- I mean, there are so many different characters out there, how do you know you are not just duplicating someone elses work subconciously or accidentally??
could there be possible consequences to creating similar artwork accidentally?

[Hyver]

that's why they invented lawyers

interesting question, although i don't know how much of an answer you may expect on the matter

[JL.Alfaro]

Yeah I just answered my first question by going directly here:http://www.copyright.gov/register/literary.html

and you dont need a lawyer, They will suck you dry and then eat you as jerky. seriously, they will.
as far as the second question, How do you know youre not accidentally copying someone elses hard work? perhaps we should start a thread where you describe or post your characters and then someone else will either recognize or find similarities with other known characters,..?? unless there is a database out there with all known characters??? anyone know of such a thing??

[Karen K.]

Mm... well you can't copyright characters... you can trademark them however.

As to ideas... what you're speaking of is called intelectual property and it's a very grey area when it comes to law. Because two people could have the same idea, but never have written it down or drawn it out, it really is hard to take it to court, though I do believe the basis of the Neil Gaiman vs Todd McFarlane lawsuit was over intellectual property rather than trademarked characters. You may want to look that one up for further information, I'm pretty sure most of the documentation is now public.

[sone_one]

uhmmmmm... where are you drawing the line? there are a lot of similarities on a lot of character from a lot of different persons... why? cause we all got our influences, and since we aint living in the woods as hermits, the chances we get influenced by other artists artworks is pretty high.

you can find influences of hale, frazetta, wood, brom etc in almost everyones pieces.
i myself am pretty influenced by foster, hpx, ashley wood, puddnhead or djurdjevic among many others.... those are influenced by others as well.

copying someone is ofc a not-do and can result in consequences... but other than that?

all of us could spend our life infront of some court then.

[_Mario]

Mm... well you can't copyright characters... you can trademark them however.
Are you sure? From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark
While trademark law seeks to protect indications of the commercial source of products or services, patent law generally seeks to protect new and useful inventions, and registered designs law generally seeks to protect the look or appearance of a manufactured article. Trademarks, patents and designs collectively form a subset of intellectual property known as industrial property because they are often created and used in an industrial or commercial context.

By comparison, copyright law generally seeks to protect original literary, artistic and other creative work
Looks like copyright is the right term for characters/cratures and comparable creations (See last sentence).

[Big-Dave]

Mario: A character is not an artistic work, but rather any *renderings* of said character are. if you want the idea behind the character you're depicting covered you need to trademark it and submit a character sheet showing all elements of the design.

[_Mario]

Big-Dave: I can only go by what I know (not much). That's why I have to rely on wikipdia (and other sources of information). Again from the wikipedia entry:
A trademark (Commonwealth English: trade mark)[1] is a distinctive sign of some kind which is used by a business to uniquely identify itself and its products and services to consumers, and to distinguish the business and its products or services from those of other businesses. A trademark is a type of industrial property which is distinct from other forms of intellectual property. So if you have a character that you use in your logo then you can trademark that. Example: The apple from the Apple logo.
Here is a recent trademark problem:
http://www.canada.com/topics/technology/news/gizmos/story.html?id=709fe991-af49-4de3-b019-6b45a6407497&k=12848

But a character from a book/film/video game seems to be related to copyright. Again the last sentence from my quote above (and the wikipedia article):By comparison, copyright law generally seeks to protect original literary, artistic and other creative works.The idea behind the character is the "original literary, aristic ... creative work".

My point of view:
IP= all three below
Trademark: For a companies identity
Patents: For inventions
Copyright: All the other IP that a company owns.

There are a lot more (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property#Types_of_intellectual_proper ty) . I just used the ones that I think are important in this case.

Big-Dave can you (or someone else) explain where I am wrong. My thinking sounds rather okay to me and I ... know it that way. Because if my stuff is wrong then I would like to know where my error is. At the moment it sounds convincing from my point of view.

[Elwell]

But a character from a book/film/video game seems to be related to copyright. Again the last sentence from my quote above (and the wikipedia article):The idea behind the character is the "original literary, aristic ... creative work". Here's what's throwing you off. You can't copyright "the idea behind the character," or any idea. Copyright, unlike patents (and by extension, trademarks) only applies to works in fixed, tangible form. However, concepts and ideas are covered by copyright in that you can't create derivitive works from copyrighted material without permission.

[Elwell]

To answer the original question...
The way to copyright a character or concept is to use it in a work and copyright that. So you could write a description, draw pictures, etc.
And if two people independantly do work that is similar, or even identical, without any knowledge of the other's work, both can claim copyright and neither is infringing. The problem, of course, is proving that there was no influence.

[JL.Alfaro]

According to the US cpoyrights office- copyrights are needed for a graphic novel(which is where Im headed with all this) The novel portion of the project-say the script- falls under "Literary Works" of the copyrights website.
QUOTE:
Literary works
"Literary works may be published or unpublished and include nondramatic textual works with or without illustrations.... "
Visual Arts
"Visual arts are pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including 2-dimensional and 3-dimensional works of fine, graphic, and applied art. Here are examples of visual arts:

* Cartographic works, such as maps, globes, relief models
* Cartoons, comic strips
* Dolls, toys
* Drawings, paintings, murals
* Holograms, computer and laser artwork
* Models
* Photographs, photomontages
* Posters
* Record jacket artwork or photography
* Relief and intaglio prints
* Reproductions, such as lithographs, collotypes
* Sculpture, such as carvings, ceramics, figurines, maquettes, molds
* Stained glass designs
* Stencils, cut-outs
* Technical drawings, architectural drawings or plans, blueprints, diagrams, mechanical drawings + more

Question:
Big Dave-"A character is not an artistic work, but rather any *renderings* of said character are. if you want the idea behind the character you're depicting covered you need to trademark it and submit a character sheet showing all elements of the design."
What is a character sheet, and to what extent do you detail the elements of the the design????? can you show me one?

Mario- FYI, you're right about the trademark deal check this out:
QUOTE:
US Trademark Office
"How do I find out if I need a patent, trademark or a copyright?

Patents, Trademarks, and Copyrights are three types of intellectual property protection. They are different and serve different purposes. Patents protect inventions, and improvements to existing inventions. Trademarks include any word, name, symbol, or device, or any combination, used, or intended to be used in commerce to identify and distinguish the goods of one manufacturer or seller from goods manufactured or sold by others, and to indicate the source of the goods. Service marks include any word, name, symbol, device, or any combination, used, or intended to be used, in commerce, to identify and distinguish the services of one provider from services provided by others, and to indicate the source of the services. Copyrights protect literary, artistic, and musical works. For general information, publications and other copyright related topics, you may visit their Web site at http://www.copyright.gov. Copyrights information can be obtained from the U.S. Copyright Office."

[masque]

Does anyone here know how to go about copyrighting a character, or concept?? to amplify a bit, in the U.S., once an original work is in a fixed and tangible form, copyright automatically becomes property of the "author" of the work. "author" is actually a legal term, and may not necessarily refer to the person who actually produces the work (google "work for hire"), but usually does unless certain circumstances apply. to protect your copyright interest, always publish the proper copyright notice with your work -- not doing so can make enforcing copyright more difficult. you can register copyrights in the U.S. with the Library of Congress, which can be useful if infringement ever becomes a legal issue.

for US copyright info: http://www.copyright.gov/ inform yourselves! :teeth:

not sure how much of this is directly relevant to international copyright law.

[JL.Alfaro]

Mr. Elwell, didnt see your post before, Thank you for the insight which is really all I needed. coming from a professional (not that anyone else replying is'nt) means I can go ahead and process my original concept(script and some renderings) without worrying too much and enjoying the process alot more. thank you sir.

just to recap:
A copyright is needed for the work as a whole
Cant copyright ideas or concepts,
copyright materials have to be in a fixed-tangible form-something physical or visual form
dont rip off other people's ideas,if you do you're going to hell or just have to prove that you didnt copy someone elses stuff.

that cover everything??

[JL.Alfaro]

Thank you Masque. I really appreciate the information, for someone such as myself who is starting out, It can be quite intimidating having to deal with so many legal issues, I just want to get my hands into it and create. I will be posting my stuff here pretty soon, hopefully you guys will come and critique my artwork- all of your comments and suggestions are invaluable to me.


thanks again every one

[_Mario]

Here's what's throwing you off. You can't copyright "the idea behind the character," or any idea. Copyright, unlike patents (and by extension, trademarks) only applies to works in fixed, tangible form. However, concepts and ideas are covered by copyright in that you can't create derivitive works from copyrighted material without permission.Thanks for clarifying some things. It helped with understanding some bits.

But I think I wrote that wrong. I wanted to use "the idea behind..." as an abbreviation for sketches, rendering, and written descriptions. These three would fall under copyright and not trademark, wouldn't they?

Where exactly (and for what) would trademarks be used in IP creation (characters, location, scripts).
From the wikipedia page it seems that trademarks are used so people can identify the goods of different companies.
So if all the created IP is already protected by copyright (when fixed) for what do you use trademarks. If you want to trademark concepts and ideas then you need to somehow sketch them or write them down. And at that point they are already covered by copyright (because the stuff is fixed now). You can strenghten that by going to the copyright office so you have if official. Why trademark that now? I got the distinction of fixed, tangible and not fixed. But how and where would trademark be useful (besides trademarking a company icon, name, and related stuff) for concept creators, comic writers and other related fields.You explanation helped but it created some new questions. I would be grateful for a little bit more explanation on the subject.

[Elwell]

One big difference is that trademarks don't expire, as long as they are enforced. For instance, despite Disney's best efforts, the copyright on the earliest Mikey Mouse cartoons will eventually expire, and anyone will be able to reproduce and resell them. However, the name and likeness of Mikey Mouse will still be protected by trademark, which will allow Disney to retain control of the character.