new cardboard paintings

[daarken]

some new stuff im working on for a show im having in july on haight street. they are acrylics on cardboard, the robot is on masonite. still not quite sure what i want to paint really and what style. i have always struggled with that. let me know what you guys think. some people say that i copied deth sun (http://www.angelfire.com/sd/londonmadrid/blackheart.html) , but i really dont think my things look like his. what do you think

http://www.daarken.com/flashpage/kats/hottie.jpg

http://www.daarken.com/flashpage/kats/inmind.jpg

http://www.daarken.com/flashpage/kats/foryou.jpg

http://www.daarken.com/flashpage/kats/lovebox.jpg

[nardfrog]

I think you should do a series with your guy. Liek a comic strip but bigger. I think those would sell like hot cakes!
Cool stuffz

PS dont you just love our signatures... Yours;FightClub, Mine: PinkFloyd

[el coro]

seems a bit sf fine arty, to me. not that there's anything wrong with that, but i think its somewhat limiting. knowing what you're capable of, i think these are not indicative of your best work. it's just my opinion, but be cautious about jumping on the bandwagon... i think i want to see more of you in these, i feel like i've seen this type of stuff too many times. where are you showing at? tell me its not upper playground...-c36

[bat]

After looking at Deth's work, then coming back to yours, while I can see a similarity of style, I wouldn't say you copied his work whatsoever. It is a fun, quirky type of art that is happy and looks good on most any wall. I say keep up the good work and good luck taking your work down to Haight. I like to toy with this happy/sad style every so often as a break and although not an overly complicated style, it does, if executed well (as you have done), tap into that zone of childhood fun/innocence that is actually fun to look back on to from time to time. Thank you for sharing.

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[Erik]

A bit graffity-style like.

No offense but: They're nice enough and pleasant to look at, but not very powerful or unique. A merchandise feeling.

Unlike your other stuff which completely blows me away most of the time.

[keyth]

i'm a little curious why you aren't creating images that are a bit....for lack of a better term...."darker". i remember reading a post a while back that concerned you and painting dark images. you said something like "i don't paint just dark stuff". are you trying to go away from that for a certain reason?

i don't know what it is but....after viewing your other artworks in the spod section and all....you seem to be capable of creating very powerful images. in many of your spods and life drawings and such, there's so much there.

don't get me wrong mike, i like these a lot. it's just that, they don't "pull me in" the way some of your other artworks do.

just my 2 cents. i can't wait to see more.;)

keith

[daarken]

thanks for the comments guys. yeah, i was trying to create something that would sell along with something that i would enjoy painting and that i thought would be unique. but i guess it is a little overdone in terms of style. they are actually going to be hanging up in villains vault, so its not like an actual show i guess. i just thought i would get away from the realism i have been doing lately. maybe i should rethink things. thanks again!

hah, damn! i guess i should have never showed my other stuff before, jk. i thought i would get away from darker stuff too since villains wanted happier stuff. gotta please the masses sometimes if you want to survive right?

[Deth Jester]

yeah,

deffinitly not your best.. I think you could have come up with some better peices.. not to say these are bad.. but compared to some of your other work.you know? heard it a million times..


keep the train running..

peace.

[bat]

Although I do agree that this work is a departure, there is nothing wrong with playing with other styles; as long as you are producing art, that is what counts. I also agree with your point about making work that sells well. I have myself done a few pieces that were fun, and I knew were going to sell straight off for local and not so local galleries or events.

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[el coro]

i have to say i disagree about creating work for the purpose that it sells well. fine art should be ones personal take on things. its your own art direction, and that's very important. if you wanna make money easily, catering to the public, that's what production art is for. i cater to peoples tastes and preferences all day at my job, or on paid freelance gigs, but the minute i find myself catering my fine art to a specific audience, i am no longer realizing my own vision or going with my own sensitivities. fine art should be an extension of you. dont create fine art entirely for the purpose of selling something, at that point its become a freelance gig for joe public,and losing sight of whats important. you dont want to be that guy who's work looks like so and so's. you arent offering anything new, just wallowing in the mire of the bottom of the barrel in the fine art scene, with the rest of the hacks. daarken, you have drawing and rendering skill way beyond the gimmicky fools that tend to show in this city,showcase it. i'm not saying put up a bunch of master wu portraits orr anything like that, but drawfrom your own sensitivities and style, and not only will you feel more confident and energetic about the work, but people will notice. i mean, take it with a grain of salt, but its something i struggled with when i first started showing in spots here, and i found from experience that the work i sold always had the strongest stamp of "me" in it, and was never the stuff i made specifically to "sell". i typically sell very large oil paintings despite the smaller, cheaper ones i may have done to accompany them. whenever i show, i'm always told to do smaller work because it sells, but i now know this to be bullshit. i'm rambling, so i'm gonna cut this short, but my point to you is that there are a million guys biting deth sun, leave the gimmicky stuff for the guy's who cant paint, and work on something more "you".-c36

[keyth]

dude, that's a world of advice.

[bat]

Possibly, I was misinterpreted by my own lack of sleep. I don't mean to sell well is to sell out or copy anyone else. Subjects and themes that are popular sell well, regardless of style. The gist of my comment was that as long as someone is producing art, they are sticking to their guns. I paint and sell a lot of animal skulls. I like skulls and they are fairly popular. I don't paint skulls like other people, but I do use the theme.
Also, I am not saying anyone misinterpreted me, but rather that my lack of sleep kept me from being clearer. I agree with El Coro.

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[Pigeon]

Nice textures. I like the contrast with the smooth subject. I don't like the corrigation though. Cardboard's not archival either. Fine for sketch-paintings I suppose.

[Pigeon]

also reminds me of explodingdog.com

[dajovion]

These are really nice. I think you'd like this guy's work:
RasPage (http://www.raspage.com)

[daarken]

pigeon: yeah, im not expecting my work to last 100 years. plus i am broke and have no money, also i wouldnt be selling these for 100's of dollars, maybe like 20 - 30. just to let you know.

[Pigeon]

daarken, that's cool, i've been there. I'm still there ;)

Toulouse-Lautrec painted a lot of stuff on cardboard, and his stuff is highly valued, and still around. Actually, it's funny to hear of conservators running around like chickens with their heads cut off, trying to preserve dying pieces of art.

We like to think of artwork as having permanance through the ages, but artworks have a life cycle, and must come to an end. Pollock's peices are falling apart. So are Anselm Kiefer's. Da Vinci's last supper is hanging on by a thread.

I once met Ed Paschke here in town, and he showed me a piece of his that had been stolen, slashed, recovered, and repaired. It's hard to patch slashes like that, so it had long, blank white streaks where it had been patched. Rather than repainting the streaks to match the painting, he told me he would paint them bright red, just to highlight the history of the piece. I don't know if he actually did it, but it was an interesting notion.

I suppose performance art was created as the ultimate statement of this - artwork as something you experience, or a thing that experiences history, rather than something to be possessed.

[nardfrog]

Yeah, El coro seems like the guy you should definately be listening to... and me because im telling you to listen to el coro.:D

[daarken]

thanks for the inspiration and words of encouragement justin. its funny because i always hated the people that just did art to sell, and it seems that in my present financial situation i have lost sight of what is important to me. thanks again for steering me back on track. thanks to everyone else as well!

oh yeah, i dont know what the hell happened to my avatar. one day it was suddenly the big "for you" cardboard painting, and i never changed my avatar to that, so sorry for any inconveniences. hmm...will have to fix later.

[bat]

There is a difference between just doing art to sell and selling art you like to make. I would say create art that you like making that will sell over being an art robot. There are tons of art robots out there that just toss ideas together and sell them because at the root of it, art is not aesthetic, it is not spiritual, creating art is merely showing your version of the effects of light and shadow. The resulting effects may incite a riot of emotions, but technically, art is not special, it takes no 'gift'. Some people merely see things differently and are able to bring this images to the physical world through various means, some people need to be taught this skill.
I don't think you are being an art robot, and you do need to eat and pay bills. Selling these cardboard works as a means to an end doesn't make you a sellout or copier, as long as you enjoy this style, you are still sticking to your guns.

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[daarken]

uh oh, this is going to end up being an art debate. thanks for the kind words bat, but i would have to totally disagree with you about art. if creating art did not require a "gift" then everyone in the world would be in the art industry. i for one, being at an art school, know for a fact that not everyone is good, even though they may go to every single workshop, they still can not advance past a certain point. its like with sports, people have to have a special gift to be really good. ive played hockey for 9 years and about 6 of that was with the same people, and some of them never got any better no matter how hard they tried. even in art school the best teachers can tell you how to draw, but that will not make a person a bad ass artist. sure with practice people will get better, but do you really think some joe shmoe will be the next michelangelo with practice? i think no.

[MindCandyMan]

I'm doomed :( hehe

[bat]

It's all in the head. I recently watched a program on Discovery Science in which autistic people had developed artistic skills almost overnight that blow away a hell of a lot of people. I began drawing at a very early age and some people are amazed at how I can draw or paint any given object or subject. I am not special, I am a Joe Schmoe, my brain just sees things differently. Physical sports limit people with their own physical capabilities, but cerebral sports?

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[Pigeon]

whether it's art made to sell, or art i like to make, ideally i'd like to create an art product and sell it, rather than receive a freelance job. It's the difference between initiating or reacting.

But if you're making art specifically as a response to the marketplace, than it's sort of a hybrid between the two points.

and how many michaelangelos are there? a lot of practice will take you far, but not all the way. Sure, but is it really some sort of "gift" or innate talent that takes you the rest of the way? Perhaps it's a special set of life experiences that contribute the rest, whether those experiences happened when you were 2 or 52.

dean

[daarken]

exactly , you were a good artist at an early age, meaning you were born with an inate ability to be a good artist. if its all in your head and anyone can do it, then how come art schools arent producing 100% of the graduates as awesome artists? and saying physical sports are limited by ones physical capabilities totally ignores the whole point i was trying to make. sure everyone can be labelled a joe shmoe because most people dont think they are special, but they do have special talents. so what about cerebral sports, how come everyone isnt an einstein then if its all in your head and everyone has the ability to be the best? to discard the fact that , say steven hawking or michael jordan, were not born with a special inherent ability is just plain naive.

[MindCandyMan]

Well I was actually the one that trained Michael Jordan and I can say that he really didn't have that much innate talent. Through perseverence by me (his teacher) he was able to catch on. Now look where he is...he is rolling in money. Have I seen any of it? No of course not. People always forget their roots. Don't even get me started about steve hawking...

[daarken]

hahaha

[bat]

Many people are born with a predisposition towards something or other, I never disputed that, in fact, I was born with a natural ability to draw that although running in my family, did shock many as it began at a very early age. I said that everyone has the same abilities, either through nature OR training to be good (I never said perfect) at most anything. What is naive is thinking that the ability to draw or paint makes a person special. The best part about being human is being able to turn your mind towards anything. I never mentioned any particular artist because that is all a matter of taste. Artistic ability is a difference, artistic skill, anyone can learn. And this has been proven, try Betty Edwards Drawing on the Artist Within, or her Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain. She took people with no drawing ability and within weeks had them turning out outstanding work.


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[daarken]

did i ever say being able to draw makes a person special? no. not that i am saying im an awesome artist, but i had no prior training or drawing ability before i started the academy 2 years ago. so just because i had no drawing ability (as you say happened in all these different books) does not mean i did not have some inherent ability that had just not been tapped before. so therefore i could be an example from betty edwards book, but im sure that did not happen with everyone, as everyone has different abilities. but anyway, this arguement does not seem to be resolvable, so i will simply end it that we both have different views about the world.

[MindCandyMan]

What we really want to know daarken is why you are being forced to paint on cardboard...are you sure you don't need money? hehe

[daarken]

actually, yeah i do. this month i can not pay my phone bill, register for classes, or enter my stuff in the spring show because i can not buy matte board. so if anyone wants to help out a starving artist pm me and we can work out a deal. i could sell you some paintings for cheap or something. i havent even had time to look for a job with all my final projects being dumped on me, but soon it will all be over.

and bat, i hope you didnt take any offense. i dont want to make any enemies. some friendly debating is actually pretty fun and stimulating.

[bat]

Daarken!
No offense taken whatsoever. I do hope we are all mature enough to disagree amicably. I understand your point of view and also understand that our points of view may vary, and this doesn't mean that either of us is right or wrong.
By the way, I invested in a large amount of awesome matte board and also paint on it for the rich texture as well as using it for matting art for framing. If you are looking for any of this, in various colours or white (white, also being the reverse side of the coloured pieces), let me know, I will trade you a batch for one of your cardboard paintings. PM me, I can send matte your way any day.

Take care!
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