Much frustrations with my graffiti and the Prismacolor Pencils (Pics included)

[Hand-Picked God]

Greetings! Now just before I rant on about how difficult it is to bod with my unsatifactory pencil skills, I'm not a novice at drawing niether. But for the most part, most of my friends (Graffiti artists, that is) always have the upper hand on me when it comes to shading characters and doing 3d styles with prismacolor pencils. I have always pondered the very thought of how in this godly earth could people be able to do such things (Well, maybe i'm egsadurating(sp?) a bit)

I just want to know of any advice you guys can give me on techniques they might have used, how I can work on improving the way I draw characters/3d etc, how I can be able to render characters and create value and sense of depth, or how to applie Prismacolor Pencils to create a cartoony feel on the characters. I would also like to know how I can judge skin tone and choose what to draw on my characters.

Heres what my friends can do.














http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/3504/dsc002461rj.jpg

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/4366/dsc002389zs.jpg

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/1363/dsc002397gw.jpg

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/3041/dsc002589ys.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/876/dsc002133an.jpg

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/3414/dsc002293vc.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4628/dsc002320dg.jpg

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1745/dsc002331vh.jpg

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1608/dsc002219mt.jpg

http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/391/dsc002225pk.jpg

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/4404/dsc002345mo.jpg

Here are some of my pathetic attempts =(

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9486/dsc002567bf.jpg

(Did I apply too much?)

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/9320/dsc002550no.jpg

Well, its not that I am an incopotent artist, I do know a thing or two about writing too.

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/2742/dsc002479vt.jpg

(Not finished)

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9461/dsc001326xi.jpg

But, I still do have a long trail to follow before I can catch up with my fellow peers in this kind of art. To conclude, I am in search of expert advice, or any tutorials to any of the problems I have stated above. I really do appreaciate your kindness and help. And I really hope to get better at this in a few months, along with any help you guys can give. Well, until later!
Peace.

[Hand-Picked God]

Any help anybody?

[Fl3wk]

1. Are your friends older than you?
2. Have they been doing it longer?
3. Have you thought of asking them to help you improve?

My advice would be to begin at the basics, observational drawings! Do some life drawing, go into a cafe or somewhere and sketch poeple.

Also practice really does improve you. In a couple of months, if you do this daily for atleast 2 hours, you will have improved alot.

[IILooney]

This is some dope stuff. Those guys have skills.

Advice I could give is: It probably seems intimidating at thow clean these drawings seem but the artists just have experience. Practice drawing simple solids like spheres boxes and cylinders, and ellipses. Check out some art books (all figure drawing books have it) which will show how to combine these shapes to for more complex objects. Be real loose and don't be afraid to get messy on the lay in, just sketch lightly so you can lay in dark marks during the rendering stage. To begin lay in those simple solids and don't concentrate on details or subject matter, just focus on compostition and the main shapes that occupy the picture. I'd recommend doing thumbnails to generate ideas as well.
When you render, in order to give things a feel of volume render over the surface of the object as if it exists in 3d space on the page. As far as color goes you can use a complementary color to really pop out an object. also remember to keep the values in mind and keep a generous level of contrast between the forground and background to give a feeling of space. Then you can have the writing travel around in a 3d space using perspective and atmospheric perspective to assist the illo. And be sure to keep the background less detailed than the foreground unless you want to confuse. Just some thoughts.

[Main Loop]

its al about just learning how a basic form is rendered, how to make it look 3d. if you think about it, they're just elongated cubes and cylinders, prisms cones etc. its actully the easiest and most basic stuff to learn, and can be found in every single drawing book worth looking at.

[Hand-Picked God]

Thanks for the advice! I really appreciate some of your posts which have trown some things at me which I should have known in the first place. I've always been drawing, but one of my weaknessess have been coloring and rendering characters. It seems to me that some people have some sort impossibly immaculate knowledge about the way you detail, color, etc... Well, I would be happy if someone posted tutorials of some sort, just so I could catch on a little bit. Thanks!

[el coro]

your friends are pressing hard enough to fill in all the pits of the paper, thus producing smooth transitions. one thing i used to do, way way back inthe day when i used prismacolors to draw graffiti in my blackbooks, was use the white pencil to blend with. if u lay down colors lightly, then come back on top with white, pressing hard, you can blend whats been laid down. i have not used that trick in like 12 years, but trust me, it works real well. your friends have some good letters, the characters i could take or leave, but the letters seem pretty good.-c36

[Main Loop]

Thanks for the advice! I really appreciate some of your posts which have trown some things at me which I should have known in the first place. I've always been drawing, but one of my weaknessess have been coloring and rendering characters. It seems to me that some people have some sort impossibly immaculate knowledge about the way you detail, color, etc... Well, I would be happy if someone posted tutorials of some sort, just so I could catch on a little bit. Thanks!

www.fineart.sk - find the andrew loomis successful drawing link and go to either page 9 or 10, you'll find text and pictures on basic form rendering

[A.Cerasoli]

There is a graffiti tutorial dvd on Bombing Science that you can buy. But all the techniques shown are done with spray paint. There is one short part about lettering, although its not the 3D style your looking to achieve it might still help. You can also check out some of Daim's work and study his forms and lettering. Daim is mostly credited with starting that 3D style. Also as a suggestion I would try to create my own style if I were you. For instance study some of those 3D styles and the more straight forward Bronx styles and make your own style out of them.

Here is a link to the dvd if you decide to get it:
http://www.bombingscience.com/catalog.htm?item=1981

http://www.bombingscience.com/images/DVD-futureofgraff-1.jpg


55 min.- The Future of Graffiti is the ultimate graffiti how-to DVD! This DVD is excellent for beginners or those who want to add a little extra to their style. It covers many essential aspects of graffiti such as sketching, lettering, wall preparation, shading, caps, can handling, productions and characters. It also has interviews with NYC kings including: CES, COPE, OVIE, ZEPHYR and T-KID.





Good Luck!:teeth:

[Hand-Picked God]

Quick question... does anyone know how to blend in the whiteness of the paper to a prismacolor marker color? Especially for dark or black ones? Advice is welcomed! Thanks!

[Hand-Picked God]

There is a graffiti tutorial dvd on Bombing Science that you can buy. But all the techniques shown are done with spray paint. There is one short part about lettering, although its not the 3D style your looking to achieve it might still help. You can also check out some of Daim's work and study his forms and lettering. Daim is mostly credited with starting that 3D style. Also as a suggestion I would try to create my own style if I were you. For instance study some of those 3D styles and the more straight forward Bronx styles and make your own style out of them.

Here is a link to the dvd if you decide to get it:
http://www.bombingscience.com/catalog.htm?item=1981

http://www.bombingscience.com/images/DVD-futureofgraff-1.jpg


55 min.- The Future of Graffiti is the ultimate graffiti how-to DVD! This DVD is excellent for beginners or those who want to add a little extra to their style. It covers many essential aspects of graffiti such as sketching, lettering, wall preparation, shading, caps, can handling, productions and characters. It also has interviews with NYC kings including: CES, COPE, OVIE, ZEPHYR and T-KID.





Good Luck!:teeth:

I saw that movie at my friends house before... If only he showed how he colored that "E" T_T but yes indeed, it was dope.

[scarlet]

maybe practicing perspective and how light affects color could help you.

[GriNGo]

wow excellent work from your friends! I think you should just practice... can you post any of your own work?

later,
GRiNGoLoCo

[Blue]

Graffitti is a very special art form. It is illegal and frowned on by most of the public, however it is single handedly the most complicated and stylized form of typography and iconism (if thats even a word) and deserves as much if not more respect then other art forms.

The work you're friends are producing is exquisite, and to get to that stage you are going to need to really buckle down and work your tail off. Honestly, this is not even factoring in the spray paint itself, which adds a whole new level of difficulty to the art form, and if you wish to take it to it natural (illegal) canvas, speed is also a factor.

Basically, practice like crazy and don't go getting yourself arrested. :)

[Hand-Picked God]

I said word. Anyone have a clue on how to look more into detail to background, chars, in a cartoonish style like these drawings are?

[el coro]

yes. spend time.-c36

[cotron]

your friends are pressing hard enough to fill in all the pits of the paper, thus producing smooth transitions.
Putting a magazine under the page you're working on helps this too, blending becomes easier because there's no reinforcing tooth under the page you're using. Keep the points sharp, too.

[vigostar]

Cotron- thats a great idea....

Coro- I used to do a similar thing. but, what I did was use a neutral color... not necessarily white but something that maches with the colors thats laid out but, not something that has been used and also a light color...

Other wise I learned a cool technique from Artist magazine a while back when they had cool issue about colored pencil artists and what one did instead of blending up and down this person suggested to blend in circles so that it doesnt leave streak marks and the blend comes out evenlly.. I tried the technique once and it seemed to work well although I havent really gone into detail with it..

good luck

[Hand-Picked God]

yes. spend time.-c36

Has been done, but thanks for the pencil advice. As for the magazine and circle trick, i'm going to find that out for myself! Thanks!

[Motility]

Slight paraphrasing here...

“I do not strongly recommend becoming helper to a successful artist in order to gain background. More often than not it is a discouraging experience. The reason is that you are continually matching your humble efforts against the stellar performance of [your employer]… developing an inferiority complex.”
And..
"There is a formula but it has not been in books. It is really plain old courage, standing on one's own feet, and forever seeking enlightenment; courage to develop your way, but learning from the other fellow; experimentation with your own ideas, observing for yourself, a rigid discipline of doing over that which you can improve." Andrew Loomis

I'm just saying don't compare so much.

The red/pink lettering in the 6th one of your friends says alot about rendering I think. So many different colors, but all so close/similar. The highlighting and black shadowing, even more dark colors behind those.

Your red/orange letters look good to me. More rounded (your style showing through perhaps?). Just need highlighting and a background - well yeah, smoother blending as you've pointed out.
(Keep in mind here that I've not yet gotten to learning about rendering, know almost nothing about graffitti, cept itz kool, and my current monitor reeeeeallly sux!)

Oh and it's - exaggerate.
Just my three cents.

[Hand-Picked God]

One of my first 3d attemps in a while

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7774/dsc004476oz.jpg

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1695/dsc004433ql.jpg

I'd appreaciate any critique or advice with my 3d. Thanks!

[A.Cerasoli]

Your coloring and lettering has improved a lot from your first post. Nice work! I have no critiques, you also did a good job with the 3D. The letters look like there poping off the page. Nice! By the way it's nice to see some graffiti on this site. Keep posting more.

[Madfishmonger]

That really does look like it's floating over the paper. I like the colours. Slick.

[Hand-Picked God]

SOme stuff from some of my homeboys...


Weka
http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/6843/sfatomicburner8gk.jpg

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/7794/sfcrazyassshit0hv.jpg

Whie

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/8182/sfwhieburner6wy.jpg

I'm trying to figue how did he color in the fillings, without making it look flat.

I'll try a few more papers tonight.

[gorillaz089ll]

hey your friends have great tallent, but what did they use for it? just wanted to know.

[the_allejo05]

nice stuff..a good way to learn art from others is to just copy them.. then you learn the language and create your own.