Spectrum Annual

[DFrey666]

Greetings,

Daniel Frey with a comment about a posting I just saw in the finished work section about work done for the Spectrum Annual...

I'm going to blow my own horn for a moment when I say, I have a lot of contacts in the field of illustration...but it only has helped me as far as making me want to work harder.

With that said, I have known a number of people who have been in the Spectrum Annual each year, including one of the judges whom I'm a friend of. I've asked, why is it we see all the same people each year including some of the dinosaurs of illustration? I know it's suppose to be the best work each year but I thought the stated purpose of the annual was to highlight "new" art from "new" artists. The answer from this judge was he acknowledged my complaint. He raised his own objection himself that judges should be excluded from the book or at the least excluded from the awards given so that it wouldn't look like a small club of illustrator's awarding their own club members.

How much more promotion does the top 15 illustrator's need? Yes, they do throw in a token amount of new illustration from unknown illustrator's. But I still feel that it's an annual for a select few.

So here's to good luck and success to all entrants including myself who will also send off my "registration fee" and work to be considered yet again.

Stay Hungry,

DFrey
http://www.darkdanceproductions.com/vision.htm

[DavePalumbo]

on the other hand, the quality of the book is top notch, possibly because it features so many "dinosaurs of illustration". I always just regarded it as a sampling of the best, old or new, as it's all new work. Afterall, it's titled "the best in contemporary fantastic art". It wouldn't mean as much to be included if it didn't have such stiff competition

[Chingwa]

Well, It's a little distasteful to see work from one of the judges end up in the book that he/she was judging. Other than that though, I agree with Dave... It's all about the quality of the art... not upcoming artists. If an upcoming artist can get their sh$%t together and submit something that will blow away the judges, then they deserve to be published with all those who have a long track record of blowing away the judges. (I'm just hoping one of those is me :) )

[AmishCommy]

i had the same feeling a few years back and I bugged the hell out of Irene Gallo and Jon Foster (who were both judges for the current annual) to explain the process to me.
This past year Jon did not submit any work because he was judging.
Irene on the other hand is a giant name in the fantacy illustration field, so excluding all the work she has commisioned would make the annual 10 pages long. Just look at the book this year - half the entries she art directed. So i bugged her about this conflict of interest and she said that she left the room or just did not vote on entries she art directed.
I'd always bitch about why the big names are there and why i'm not. but you have to look at it honestly. I've submitted to the annual very year for the past 4 years and i never made it in. But looking back at the work i submitted and the work that got in i see exactly why i haven't gotten in.
And knowing someone does not matter either. I know Greg Spalenka and Roxanna Villa (they were judges along with Irene two years ago) but that did not help me to get in. It really is about the quality of work. Some of the big names are big becasue they consitently produce high caliber work.

[loomer]

Honestly....and I really mean this..
it wouldn't mean half as much for me to get in Spectrum unless it was with the roster of artists that continually get in. Wouldn't you rather be alongside Foster, Hale, Manchess, Donato, Brom, Gustafson.....
Just mentioning all the names makes me want to better my craft. And let's say they were excluded, and you got in. The book wouldn't sell as well, and you lose exposure.
As far as Irene goes...I've met Irene a few times, and she strikes me as someone who would only do what is fair and best for the illustration community at large. And I hope she always judges...what better person to judge your art than someone who every one of us illustrators dream to work for at Tor one day?

Everyone here can understand your frustration...it's a huge dissappointment not to get into Spectrum. Just try to stay more positive and focus your energy at improving your craft - improve it to the point where the judges just can't turn it down. I sincerely wish you the best of luck, as I do all the artist that submitted entries.
Except for AmishCommy..he's a dickbag that beats on the homeless for pleasure :)
(i joke..you rule brutha!)

[Irene Gallo]

The agenda of any annual is to present the best of what was submitted, regardless of who the artist is. All of the “dinosaurs” that you are talking about were beginners at one point. They had to struggle through the process just like anyone else. Asking the strongest and most expierienced artists to step aside doesn’t make any sense to me. The stronger the books are the more useful they are -- as a marketing tool for professionals, as a learning tool for students, and to create a document of the work being done at any one time. No one asks the strongest baseball teams to sit out the World Series.

Every annual seems to get critized about favoritism from time to time. I've been a judge for Spectrum and the Society of Illustrators annual and I can say that they both do as fair a job as possible.

As for jurors submitting works: No annuals require that the jurors not submit work. It would simply be too much of a liability to do so. The jury process is silent -- No one is able to push an agenda, no one is able to push their own work. You can vote for yourself, but it's only one out of 7 votes, far from a shoe-in. The awards are debated after the initial judging, but if one of the jurors has work that made it that far they either need to leave the room or the work is disqualified. This is industry standard.

There are a number of magazine that will run a “young guns” feature. I always enjoying seeing these, but that is not what annuals like Spectrum and the Society of Illustrators are. What’s wonderful about CA.org is that it IS a place to see all levels of talent, from high schoolers to seasoned pros. This is an amazing reasource...but it’s not what the annuals are trying to do.

[Manchess]

We had a saying in the martial arts I trained in: “the only way to shut’em up is to be very, VERY good.”

Well y’all, I used to complain about this same stuff years ago. I made my own search for answers and found this: the answers lay within myself.

I came from the trenches like all of you. No priviledges, no favors. We used to sit around the studio I worked in and wonder about all the same things. So, I went to NYC to find out...and opened my eyes.

This business has NEVER been easy and it NEVER will be. Most of us have very flawed ideas of what doing illustration used to be like in “the old days.” Well, now I’m getting older and I have recently realized I may be considered one of those “dinosaurs.” I can understand your concerns because they used to be mine. And still, from time to time, I’m reminded of the frustration.

I’ve been entering the Society Show every year since 1977. I got something in, and then went for 8 years entering and getting rejected. I was entering Communications Arts each year, too, and didn’t get into that annual for about 15 years. Even though I’ve been consistently getting in over the years, I still get overlooked in some shows.

At this stage, I have been asked to judge most of the shows out there. And I can tell you this: I had no idea how hard the hosts work to assure a fair competition. Remember that these shows are NOT the best of what’s out there each year. They are the best of WHAT’S ENTERED.

Please, you must NOT take these things personally. Be your own best judge and compare your work to what you think is best out there...and learn from it. That IS the formula that works. Fortune shines on the ones who are willing to take the risks.

[E.M.GIST]

I have been furtunate enough to get some work into Spectrum, but have been rejected from several other competitions. What I have come to realize is the quality of your work is not changed by another persons opinion(no matter who they are), the judges select the pieces that touch them either technicaly or emotionally.

Getting a piece into Spectrum does not make a piece good any more than getting rejected makes it bad. What is important is that you do the best work you can and you put it out there. If you are doing it for recognition, you are doing it for the wrong reasons. If you are doing it for exposure, buy a workbook page. If you are doing it because you love it and the idea of seeing your work judged against and by those you respect and admire gives you the soft and fuzzies, then you are on the right track.

All of that said I think the Artist's who judge should not enter but in exchange each has a little gallery and write-up in the book. Aphrodesia did this and I thought it worked better.

[Elwell]

I'm going to give Daniel the benefit of the doubt and assume that by "dinosaurs" he means "gigantic, awe inspiring creatures that could trample you into the dirt or swallow you whole without a second thought."

[Irene Gallo]

And I hope she always judges...

Hey Loomer,

Thanks for the vote of confidence but no one person should have that much influence. In fact, the Society has a rule that you can't be a judge for three years after you have served on a jury. I don't know if Spectrum has that as a rule, but they seem to follow similar guidelines

For some reason people seem to think I've been a judge for Spectrum tons of times, in fact I have only been a judge twice...and the last time it was because someone else had to cancel. ;)

If I don't see you at the next SI sketch night, I'll see you at AOL. :teeth:

Irene

[AmishCommy]

tristan you have been on a roll the last few weeks. still sick?

irene, i do think that having work art directed by you, is like a luck factor, that helps people get into spectrum. That's why i keep bugging you to come out when we're drawing or painting.

[poise]

I need to paint, :madchef:

[Arctis]

I've got a couple of questions, after reading this interesting debate :
Are there other publications/events like Spectrum ?
Does the Society of Illustrators do a comparable publication, with public call for entries ?

[Denart]

I've got a couple of questions, after reading this interesting debate :
Are there other publications/events like Spectrum ?


There's EXPOSE. Its run by the folks at cgtalk.com
Digital art only! haha. It's on its 3rd year now

[Arctis]

ah, sorry Denart, I forgot to say "other than Spectrum AND ballistic publications" ;)
I know Exposé, I've been in.

[DFrey666]

Greetings,

Wow, who knew throwing a stone in a glass house could cause a great debate.

As the pool of actual paying jobs grows smaller, and the amount of illustrator's/traditional and digital that are graduated every year doesn't decrease, what will the little fish have to do to get noticed and get a paying job?

I know everyone want's to hang onto what they got...but it's getting pretty desperate for us out here in the marketplace, both for those starting out and mid-level career citizens.

I don't know if annuals like Spectrum help us except for reference material and reminding us that there's about 15 to 20 people who can make their utility payments while the rest are left to fight for the proverbial crumb.

Stay Hungry,

DFrey

[magicgoo]

I look at it this way: You pay $20 to let some of the top names in art look at your art. They'd never look at my art unless I paid them to. And I did :D

[Irene Gallo]

Are there other publications/events like Spectrum ?
Does the Society of Illustrators do a comparable publication, with public call for entries ?

Hi Arctis,

Yes, there are a number of annuals here in the US, all of which are open to anyone....I'm sure there are similar things throughout Europe, but I am not aware of them. For me, personally, Spectrum and the Society of Illustrators are the most useful.

Spectrum because it's dedicated to sf/f and includes such a wide variety of artists and disciplines. And despite the opening post, I believe it has the best track record for showing new/young illustrators. It is simply the most relevant and fun annual for my needs. :teeth:

Society beacuse it has tons of great book work and I love seeing their annual exhibit. (Their annual book is acompanied by an exhibit of the orginal artwork...and a great party.8) ) The Society's annual is nearly 50 years old. I believe it was the first.

There is also Communication Arts, excellent but a bit more limited. American Illustration, which doesn't appeal to me personally, but others say it's great. Expose is great, but the heafty price tag has made me lazy about buying it each year....I'll get around to it this year, but I've let a few slide by.

These are the major ones I can think of. There are good things about each one, it just depends on what you are looking for.

[DSillustration]

As the pool of actual paying jobs grows smaller, and the amount of illustrator's/traditional and digital that are graduated every year doesn't decrease, what will the little fish have to do to get noticed and get a paying job?

no one ever said this was an easy job.
of course its hard...its hard as hell!
the competition is stiff.

if you want to make it in this field, you need to step it up.
simple as that.
dont blame the "market".

if there arent ANY jobs,
its up to you to MAKE one.

[DavePalumbo]

As the pool of actual paying jobs grows smaller

I hear this gripe come up fairly often and I've yet to see any real proof on it. Like Manchess said, it's easy to say that things are tougher now and so on. In reality, there are some aspects of the business which perhaps make it easier than ever before to locate the people who would interested in hiring you and in contacting them. Are there less jobs now? Maybe, I don't know. I think it's possible that there are more, what with the booming video game industry, and I'm curious how the volume of printed materials produced in 2005 compares to that produced in 1955. Just some thoughts in my head

[DFrey666]

Greetings,

Question, if there are "paying jobs" for those just out of art school, why does this forum have both a "non-paying jobs" section as well as a "paying job" section? If your lucky to live in LA or NY city you have access to studio jobs. But here in the fly over country...nuttin is happening.

GAG, IPA, are both national organizations facing this problem of no jobs for graduates of illustration and mid career people. One of the reason's is stock art, wherein those with established careers dumped their old work into the stock houses thus killing all the chances for new graduates to get a start.

How many of those who have made it in the past 20 years would continue to work in their field if they were told that they would have to work for 10 to 15 years "without pay?" While they build their exposure and portfolio. Only the few knuckle heads like myself would because someone in my family has a real job to pay the real bills.

Our industry continues to be destroyed and outsourced while those at the top tell us to be happy, keep working, do your best. If you've made it, pray to the gods that smiled at you...now I just have to find the right combination of diety and marketing.

Stay Hungry,

DFrey

[Dutton]

Cynicism won't get you very far in this business and your general tone throughout this thread indicates that what has been said so far (all which, to me, are valid) has done very little to help you understand how and why things are the way they are, whether it's Spectrum or the market in general.... which is why I'm stopping here.

[Arctis]

Hi Arctis,

Yes, there are a number of annuals here in the US, all of which are open to anyone....I'm sure there are similar things throughout Europe, but I am not aware of them. For me, personally, Spectrum and the Society of Illustrators are the most useful.

Spectrum because it's dedicated to sf/f and includes such a wide variety of artists and disciplines. And despite the opening post, I believe it has the best track record for showing new/young illustrators. It is simply the most relevant and fun annual for my needs. :teeth:

Society beacuse it has tons of great book work and I love seeing their annual exhibit. (Their annual book is acompanied by an exhibit of the orginal artwork...and a great party.8) ) The Society's annual is nearly 50 years old. I believe it was the first.

These are the major ones I can think of. There are good things about each one, it just depends on what you are looking for.

Thanks for the answer.
Is the Society's annual book only opened to members, or is it the same submission process than Spectrum ? They look great, and the fact they're not only dedicated to SF-fantasy interest me.

In France, maybe there are such publications ... But it is a fact that in France, realistic art in illustration is not much apreciated. (very different from english speaking countries). But hey, this should not be a problem at our times, thanks to internet anybody is able to show his work wherever he wants. :)

About favoritism,
I know it's tough to be refused, but artistic jobs always had their difficulties, like any other jobs. The "artists on the top" (can an artist feel he's on the top?) have suffered : see Manchess or Foster's descriptions of their beginnings.
I had no relations when I started, and no DA wanted to meet me at first (they were so overbooked !), so I simply sent my projects by mail, like hundreds of other artists. Believe me, the day I got a proposition, I was much happier than if I had been helped by "friend/relations" inside the place.

[Elwell]

Arctis, the Society's annual is open to everyone, not just members (the only benefit to membership when it comes to the annual is a slight reduction in entry fees). In the past it only included work produced or published in North America (with an occasional separate "international" catagory for other works), but now foreign entries are accepted for the main show.
Contact the Society at http://www.societyillustrators.org and ask to be put on their mailing list and you should get the call for entries for next year's show.

[Arctis]

Thanks, Elwell, I'll ask them :)

[AmishCommy]

the other benefit of membership of the SoI is that you get asked to do a butt load of work for nothing.

about bitching that you can't get work out of school - i was the same way when i gradumakated. it was just after 9-11 and the economy was in the shitter and you could see a decline in published illustrations. and also a rize in crappy photoshop manipulations. but there is a reason why people don't get work strait out of school. they are simply not good enough. look at your work honestly. as much as we bitch about ADs a good amount of them know what they're doing and are pretty good about spotting the few young gems among the rest of us.

EDIT:
getting in the annual will not make you an overnight success. Loomer was in the SoI 43 annual (one of the best SoI annuals in my opinion) ask him how many high paying jobs he had to turn down becasue of work overload. Getting in the annual will get your work seen. that's all.

[Arctis]

the other benefit of membership of the SoI is that you get asked to do a butt load of work for nothing.

about bitching that you can't get work out of school - i was the same way when i gradumakated. it was just after 9-11 and the economy was in the shitter and you could see a decline in published illustrations. and also a rize in crappy photoshop manipulations. but there is a reason why people don't get work strait out of school. they are simply not good enough. look at your work honestly. as much as we bitch about ADs a good amount of them know what they're doing and are pretty good about spotting the few young gems among the rest of us.

EDIT:
getting in the annual will not make you an overnight success. Loomer was in the SoI 43 annual (one of the best SoI annuals in my opinion) ask him how many high paying jobs he had to turn down becasue of work overload. Getting in the annual will get your work seen. that's all.

I don't know who you're talking to, but I hope what I said about DA has not been misunderstood : there was no ironical tone when I said DA are overbooked, because they ARE.

About SoI, I'm interested in having my works seen, and I wouldn't underestimate it. An art career is made of meetings, sometimes unpredictable...

When I was student, I and a friend did a little art competition, and we won a compositing formation that didn't exist in our school. I still remember all the other students who told us "that contest is crap, ha ha ! " but immediatly after school, I got my first job thanks to my knowledge of compositing.

[AmishCommy]

no dude, not directed at you. directed at DFrey666. the reason you got work out of school, Arctis, is becasue you're good.
about ADs being over booked that's an understatement. they are busy as hell and you're damn lucky if they even glance at your work.
SoI is like a second home to me. I work there and hang out there all the time. Their annual is awesome. the deadline to submit stuff for them is always October 1st. Pick one up to take a look at the variety of work in there. It is, however, harder for us fantasy guys to get in there. I'd recomend submitting in the book or institutional categories.

[Irene Gallo]

It is, however, harder for us fantasy guys to get in there. I'd recomend submitting in the book or institutional categories.

You know....this may be true to some extent, but I think it is largely trumped up. I know there are at least 15 sf/f works in this upcoming year. Palencar, Donato, Kinuko - these guys are always in. Foster gets in, our own wee Dan has been doing well. The fact is, not a lot of sf/f is not entered in the first place.

But I knpow what you mean about doing tons of work for nothin'...Oh well, what else would we be doing with our time.:P

[AmishCommy]

sf/f always seems like to much of a niche market for the SoI annual. I was just suggesting the two categories that are more prone to sf/f work. i can't recall seing Donato or Kinuko outside of those categories.

I submitted some storyboards in the Sequential Category, but after seing the show on tuesday, its no wonder why i didnt get in. every year these guys step up their game.

[Irene Gallo]

If your lucky to live in LA or NY city you have access to studio jobs. But here in the fly over country...nuttin is happening.
Very few New Yorkers were lucky enough to be born here.


IPA
Excellent organization! I hope everyone here follows the work that they are doing. [http://illustratorspartnership.org/] I'm also thrilled to see that so many of their founding members are still doing such relevant and vibrant work that they continue to get into the annuals each year and continue to inspire me and countless others.

[darth massacre]

There are superstars in every industry. We are fortunate (and in a way unfortunate) that there are so many of them on this forum sharing their experiences with us and generally treating most of us as equals. They have the talents, the contacts and the reputation to stay on top of the game. As Irene mentioned....they have to start somewhere too. No one is born a superstar. Having said that, I don't have the superstar qualities to work in the leading concept art fields, but I've never been short of freelance job offers (albeit some practically pay in salt and not money) or fulltime job opportunities.

There are different levels of talents and they are required in different types of jobs. I can't speak for everyone, but for myself, I'm realistic about my future. It would be great to land a job working on game or movie concepts but realistically I need to feed myself. And I think once everyone starts being realistic about their situation, they won't feel so frustrated.