Conspiracy Theorys.

[Mort]

ok im a bit of a conspiracy theory guy. i like to think that the moon landing was staged at hollywood with props. and that jfk was not shot by one single man. Aliens at area 54? you bet.
ok im not so into that but i kinda like to think that it can well be more then two solutions to one problems.

i think that they yeti is a man in gorilla suit . and that jack the ripper was a doctor searching for transplant organs.

have you got any favorite conspiracys?

do you think that the flying saucers is man made or made by smart aliens?

that the terrorist attack at wtc was staged by cia?

that i have made sweet sweet love to a playboymodel is that a fact or myth?

get paranoid.

[Kresh]

well there is a theory that the trade center buildings were blown up by a small hydrogen bomb. I think if u look it up u can read some military expert explaining it with pictures and diagrams n stuff. Intresting read.

[Elwell]

If by "interesting" you mean "moronic, delusional, and insulting to everyone who remembers where they were that day and to the memories of those that died" then I agree with you completely.

[Pawige]

I'm aware that you're asking for conspiracies rather than asking for someone to debunk one, but the moon landing was definitely not faked. Here are a couple sites on the subject, I think they address all the claims made to the contrary:

http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/
http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~jscotti/NOT_faked/

[Mort]

I'm aware that you're asking for conspiracies rather than asking for someone to debunk one, but the moon landing was definitely not faked. Here are a couple sites on the subject, I think they address all the claims made to the contrary:

http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/
http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~jscotti/NOT_faked/


well i seen somewhere else that one rock had initials on it, like some prop do at hollywood. and whatabout the flag? there is clearly no wind on the moon.


and the bombing of the towers. wasnt it the pentagon that was bombed or by a scud missile? or something.

[Mort]

If by "interesting" you mean "moronic, delusional, and insulting to everyone who remembers where they were that day and to the memories of those that died" then I agree with you completely.


i might be stepping on some fragile toes here , but what if the truth was other, whould you like to be intrested in it or settle for what it is?
no disrespect to those that died, but admit that the us goverment and cia is a bunch of shady characters.

[jrr]

no, elwell was right, moronic is the right word, or
conspiracies are "the tools of the ignorant"

[Kresh]

If by "interesting" you mean "moronic, delusional, and insulting to everyone who remembers where they were that day and to the memories of those that died" then I agree with you completely.

Its a theory, I didnt mean to anger you but hey I would like to know all possibilities unstead of being biased on the whole thing. And sometimes in history when truths come out they do end up being delusional and insulting to others. Im not saying i do believe it nor do i dismiss it, there is a lot of information that is quesitonable in my opinion. Im up for discussion.

[Mort]

well sitting here at the edge of the earth . i just think that a theory that isnt the same as the truth that has been published to the public is considered a conspiracy theory at once. oppinions perhaps is not so free when it comes to certain things? we settle for it becouse if we dont , perhaps a angry mob will burn us alive?`just kidding, but maybe we should stick to more easy going theorys like area 51 and the big foot?

the truth is what it is until proven diffrent by others or something?

[Ilaekae]

Mort is really Jason. Puppy Chow and Elwell have pics...

[Pawige]

well i seen somewhere else that one rock had initials on it, like some prop do at hollywood. and whatabout the flag? there is clearly no wind on the moon.


and the bombing of the towers. wasnt it the pentagon that was bombed or by a scud missile? or something.

http://www.lunaranomalies.com/c-rock.htm

http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/Flag.htm

[Kresh]

Mort: Do you choose your battles? I dont think its wrong in anyway to be discussing these theorys, If its wrong then its wrong, and that leaves u educated. Besides no one has had a problem discussing religous theorys here and there is a long ass thread of it too.

[wassermelone]

Oh this is rich.


This is umpteenth time that this type of thread has been posted. Every single one of them more of a trainwreck than the last. What about the CA lounge brings out the nutters?

We really really need a tinfoil hat emoticon.

[Ilaekae]

Screw the emoticon. We need real tin-foil hats...

[Mort]

Oh this is rich.


This is umpteenth time that this type of thread has been posted. Every single one of them more of a trainwreck than the last. What about the CA lounge brings out the nutters?

We really really need a tinfoil hat emoticon.

hehe dont take it to seriously dude.
i hope thinking isnt offensive or to hard on you man. just some lounging threads much about nothing really. feel free to write about conspiracys here if you wish.

ok most responces both here and there show me that we settle for the truth that is presented and not any other way of thinking, that might be considered insane or something.
i just wasnt so serious about the conspiracys thou, more intresting to use your brain for something else for a moment.

btw tinfoil hats makes the aliens more able to communicate with you so dont do that. strange that you didnt know that.

[Bruce Pluto]

Hiya Mort,

Man did this one ( your post) ever fall into my lap. My wife thinks I'm nuts. it has even become a joke with us around the house. Conspiracy theories? yep I have thousands. First of all I don't think that there can be any event that has ever happened that can not be viewed from several angles or presume to have other options.

A prime example: the Janet Jackson/Justin Timberlake incident at the superbowl. An event seen by millions. Was it on purpose to take the heat off of her brother or was it an innocent accident?

Now I'm just going to list the top 3.

1) Roswell 1947- an alien craft gets hit by a bolt of lightning at night in a New Mexico desert . The aliens may know all about space travel and how to get from here to there but they don't know where each and every lightning strike will hit on earth. So 1947, they are at the wrong place at the wrong time. BAM, they've been discovered. Something that wasn't supose to happen. How do they go about creating the mindset that it never happened? MIB, the guys that no one seems to know anything about and that are some kinda agents that scare the geebs out of all they come in contact with. This and so much more..... I could go on with this but just think about it.

2)JFK and the lone gunman theory-just watch the main film footage of this and any child can tell you that the last and final shot came from the front. You don't take someone and whack them across the head with a 2x4 from behind and have their head violently fly backward. Just doesn't happen that way.

3)The Moon Landings. I don't know what to think of this. The USA and USSR are in deep competition for space in the 60ies. I'm kinda back and forth on this one. I've seen pictures of the lunar surface with the Apollo lander on it. Then have seen the same picture with no Apollo craft on it at all. Was it there or wasn't it? Moon rocks with what looks like " MJ was Here " carved into them. What the heck!! Of couse it may be some country or organization manipulating photos of lunar pictures then puting them back in circulation.Just don't know. What better way to say it didn't happen.

The list goes on. I will just stop here. I refuse to put a lid on any subject. I try to stay open minded but then again I'm not going to belive a secret photo of President Bush shaking hands with an alien with a caption at the botton that reads " Never let 'em see it coming buddy".:teeth:

[Mort]

i find it intresting thou if it was real, lets say the crashed ufo. why and who decides that its of no public intrest and keeps it a secret?
who decides that i cant handle that information about a new breed of aliens checking out the planet cruising along and gets hit by lightning.

masshysteria or maybe they need the technology for building new weapons or whatever?

just think its so strange that they keep that truth from ppl, i mean who the hell are they?


yea jfk was assasinated, by more then one . no doubt.
another theory is why are us humans killing all the good leaders and wants to be ruled by assholes?

[wassermelone]

hehe dont take it to seriously dude.
i hope thinking isnt offensive or to hard on you man. just some lounging threads much about nothing really. feel free to write about conspiracys here if you wish.

ok most responces both here and there show me that we settle for the truth that is presented and not any other way of thinking, that might be considered insane or something.
i just wasnt so serious about the conspiracys thou, more intresting to use your brain for something else for a moment.

btw tinfoil hats makes the aliens more able to communicate with you so dont do that. strange that you didnt know that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit

"Rather, bullshitters seek to convey a certain impression of themselves without being concerned about whether anything at all is true. They quietly change the rules governing their end of the conversation so that claims about truth and falsity are irrelevant."

[Mort]

i guess you mean that conspiracy theorys is more related to philosophy?

"A philosopher seeks knowledge, whereas a bullshitter seeks nothing but the pleasure of deceiving. "

as conspiracy theorist seeks the truth and trying to fight the "bullshitters"

[wassermelone]

Fine, I shall quote from the essay.

"'Humbug: deceptive misrepresentation, short of lying, especially by pretentious word or deed, of somebody’s own thoughts, feelings, or attitudes.'

A very similar formulation might plausibly be offered as enunciating the essential characteristics of bullshit."

[Mort]

Fine, I shall quote from the essay.

"'Humbug: deceptive misrepresentation, short of lying, especially by pretentious word or deed, of somebody’s own thoughts, feelings, or attitudes.'

A very similar formulation might plausibly be offered as enunciating the essential characteristics of bullshit."

so what you are explaining is perhaps the truth that is presented to us in many cases can be bullshit? i strongly agree, hence the thread.

[wassermelone]

I do hope you realize the irony of your response in relation to what is now bolded in my previous post.

[dfacto]

I'm not into the big mainstream conspiracies, since they're mostly chock full of bullshit. I prefer the military black project theories about secret aircraft and aliens. They're just fun to read about, although I'm betting that most are bunk, and especially all the ones that involve aliens.

Then again, I'd put my money on the Aurora one. No way that the US would retire the SR-71 without some sort of replacement. Whether it's as cool as the theories say, well...

I hope so. :D

[Mort]

but then all theorys is bullshit? so whould you consider the theory that the earth wasnt flat way back then to be a lie and considered bullshit?

by this you assume that its true, and the rest is a lie? but thats the problem isnt it. i suggest that it can be another truth, if i can prove it to be so then the present truth is considered a lie or as they say bullshit?

can it be so easy to say that everyone that doesnt agree with you is talking bullshit and is lying? isnt that in favor for the real liars out there that got something to hide. myself dont care if my theory is questioned but i would never call it the ulitmate truth. becose it is oppinions and then mine would be against others, just like now.

hehe you almost making me sound like im totally into this but im not, just becouse i need to defend the right to think and question things. just a fun topic i thought.

[dfacto]

There's a theory, and then there's a theory Mort.

Conspiracy theories take common knowledge and try to add layers of bullshit, or truth, depending on your views, to the matter in order to complicate it and to generally include the far out, such as aliens, shadow governments, twisted plots, etc.

Theories about the flat earth were based on ignorance, ie lack of common knowledge.

[Mort]

There's a theory, and then there's a theory Mort.

Conspiracy theories take common knowledge and try to add layers of bullshit, or truth, depending on your views, to the matter in order to complicate it and to generally include the far out, such as aliens, shadow governments, twisted plots, etc.

Theories about the flat earth were based on ignorance, ie lack of common knowledge.

but wasnt the theory that the earth was round not flat considered as far out as aliens and moon landing? back then the wise men where wise and the others where not, sometimes theorys could even be of deadly outcome becouse of religion. but anyway im dont assume that the truth is not what it seems to be, but in many cases there is other truths, we just settle for the most easy one and leave it with that.

you can almost say that the goverment has allready won then by labeling any other theory as nutty conspiracy theorys?

perhaps there is a bunch of aliens in area 51 building ships and whatnot with the military. but you will never know until you go there by yourself and take a look if you know what i mean.

shouldnt the theory of aliens be considered as lack of common knowleadge and ignorance? why shouldnt there be aliens and perhaps they crashed, we will perhaps never know becouse its allready a conspiracy theory and are not worth thinking about you know.

somethings is emarrasing obvious like the jfk assasination but why cares, it is one truth on display and the humans voted ok on that so there we go. but almost everyone can tell that there was something strange about the 3 shots and the directions. atleast one can think about it for awhile but noone really cares enough to do anything about it .

and if someone says, what i say is the truth and the rest is lying is appearantly lying themselfs , otherwise they whouldnt need a safty net like conspiracy theorys and how they are considered.

[Zord]

I think this thread just shows that more art needs to be done.

[Carnifex]

i think you should calm down on calling everything bullshit that is listed here.
i mean,it needn't be true,but why shit on it? it's like your kid asking you when santa claus will arrive and you tell him "shut up,santa's bullshit!".

this thread isn't necessarily about whether these theories are true or not,but what YOUR personal conspiracy theories are. atleast that's my first impression.
i agree with zord though,but i also think that this thread might spur some inspiration perhaps?

[MoP]

I'm with Elwell on this one. 99% of "conspiracy theories" out there are just so inane that they're just a waste of time to even try to fathom.

There is one that I'd like more info on, though, and that's what happened to the "plane" that hit the Pentagon around 9/11. Still haven't found a satisfying explanation for that whole scenario.

[WildSpruceMoose]

The umbrella corporation, in cooperationwith the reverse vampires, controlled by the space alien race the "gormutron" born by George W. Bush's manifestion super power seek to distract our puny planet with oil, while the real heist occurs every day.....



Energon crystals! You heard it here first folks, the shadow counsel tied to our little planet is out to assist the decepticons.

break over, time to go draw some more.

EDIT: There's a difference between a conspiracy theory and speculation. Just be aware of where you get your information from before preaching a bunch of crap. For example- skull and bones society and other underground secret societies like the free masons, probably exist in some form...perhaps not as sinister as one would first believe...but in some form, it would not be beyond the realm of possibility for them to exist. Plotting society's demise? I doubt...but trying to fill their coffers? yep.

[Denart]

There is one that I'd like more info on, though, and that's what happened to the "plane" that hit the Pentagon around 9/11. Still haven't found a satisfying explanation for that whole scenario.

FACT: every piece of debris found in the Pentagon fits the description of a military jet fighter. Even the hole in front of the pentagon is the size of a small jet fighter, not some jumbo commercial jet. That's just a fact.....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7614450509687459999&q=pentagon



You guys familiar with Operation Northwoods?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwood
Operation Northwoods or Northwoods was a 1962 plan to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government of Fidel Castro. The plan, which was not implemented, called for various false flag actions, including simulated or real state sponsored terrorism (such as hijacked planes) on U.S.


:$



I'm just stating facts and documents is all! :P

[MoP]

Ah yeah, Denart, I remember that stuff. That's the explanation I'm leaning towards at the moment, but it seems a little unnecessary on the US Government's part. Still, knowing that the Operation Northwoods documents were real DoD plans (although they never got authorised) is kinda worrying. I'd hope they've advanced in their tactics since then. :nohope:

[Chingwa]

Best conspiracy theory I know:

A few years ago a bunch of Terrorists (Arabs of course) took control of 4 airliners simultaneously... successfully subdued the passengers, stewards and pilots, then flew these planes hundreds of miles off their flight paths while simultaneously evading all radar stations along the way, and plunged their human filled planes into the Pentagon and the World Trade Center. Subsequently that day they caused the 2 main towers to implode in a free fall explosion and 1 other building to fall in the exact same free fall explosion despite not being hit by anything. They managed to confuse all potential military response to the point of absurdity. Oh and they did all this with nothin' but boxcutters.

Oh, and 9 of them showed up alive after pulling off this stunt. I really wanna know how they did it. Maybe we should ask them?


If by "interesting" you mean "moronic, delusional, and insulting to everyone who remembers where they were that day and to the memories of those that died" then I agree with you completely.
I remember where I was that day, I was in NYC watching it happen. I don't understand how it's disrespectful to anyones memory to question why we've all been lied to... Or should we all sit back, wave our flags, salute the fallen, and ignore that which is too uncomfortable to think about?

[Silvertone]

[A few years ago a bunch of Terrorists (Arabs of course) took control of 4 airliners simultaneously... successfully subdued the passengers, stewards and pilots, then flew these planes hundreds of miles off their flight paths while simultaneously evading all radar stations along the way, and plunged their human filled planes into the Pentagon and the World Trade Center. Subsequently that day they caused the 2 main towers to implode in a free fall explosion and 1 other building to fall in the exact same free fall explosion despite not being hit by anything. They managed to confuse all potential military response to the point of absurdity. Oh and they did all this with nothin' but boxcutters.]

Yup, that's pretty much what Osama Bin Laden admitted to in the video tape wasn't it. Oh wait, I forgot that video tape was all cgi Jew trickery!

The 9 showing up alive later is a new one for me though.

Oh yeah, some had trained in martial arts and aside from having boxcutters they told passengers there were bombs on board the plane and if they did not resist, everything would be fine. But I appreciate you leaving out those points!

The CIA blew up the WTC? I thought that was the Jews?? Oh wait, they faked the Holocaust, (as well as my grandpa's WW2 photo album of death camps and piles of dead bodies I guess. Hmmm, guess gramps was in on the whole thing!) Oh yes the Israeli government detonated a nuclear bomb in the Ocean to cause the tsunami. THAT's what they did! I get confused sometimes.

Hey, the more looney, whacked out theories some of you guys buy into, the more it makes me happy to be alive and laugh at you.

I have a friend from school who believes Arnold Schwarzenegger will take over the world because he is power hungry and some ancient Jewish prophecy or something said some guy from the Austrian/Germany area will one day control the planet! This is supposed to happen happen within the next 20 years by the way. How's that for a conspiracy theory.

And oh yes, he is very serious about this! AND he's not even a conspiracy theory guy.

But this IS America, so everyone does has the right to believe whatever crazed, ridiculous, nonsense they want to. Go nuts you crazy kids!

Vote LaRouche!!!

[Pixeldragoon]

Mort, Why is it you hardly ever post art but try to initiate argument in the lounge all the time?

[Zord]

Mort, Why is it you hardly ever post art but try to initiate argument in the lounge all the time?


Heh, that's what I was trying to get at previously. Didn't know how to word it without sounding like an ass. :dad:

[magicgoo]

I've never met someone in the 21st century who truly believed the moon landing was faked. That's the wackiest thing I've read all day! It's as bad as the people who think the holocaust never happened. WTF?!

[Chingwa]

Yup, that's pretty much what Osama Bin Laden admitted to in the video tape wasn't it
As I understand it an admission of guilt does not translate into proof of a crime. Is there physical evidence that has not been doctored that proves Osama Bin Laden was the mastermind behind this travesty? If there's is I'd like to know about it. Seriously.

aside from having boxcutters they told passengers there were bombs on board the plane and if they did not resist, everything would be fine. But I appreciate you leaving out those points!
There's no proof they said that. Prove me wrong please. (and no... TV propaganda dramas do not count as proof)

I don't know why you're lumping in the other stuff, just because I have "radical" beliefs in one subject doesn't mean I have "radical" beliefs in all. If you want to disprove what I said, do it with data not misdirection and generalities.

As far as I see we can all only benefit from more information. None of us benefit from the slander and twisting of info...only those in power do. And seeing how even the "little people" fight among themselves, I'd say they have no worries of ever being held accountable for the murder of 3000+ people.

[BlackGuy]

I agree with carnifex, stop calling things bullshit just because you don't believe them. I'm not saying I do, but for every fact you present for your side of the argument, I bet there's a fact to be presented by the other side. Seriously guys, if there's anything you should be doing as artists, it's keeping an open mind to things. to ALL things, no matter how improbable they are. I'm not saying BELIEVE all things, I'm saying consider them before dismissing them, and when you do dismiss it, don't be an ass about it.



And I have a theory that birds and squirrels are plotting a rebellion. Back like ten years ago, I used to just have to inch towards a bird and a squirrel from 20 feet away, and they would scamper off. These days, birds and squirrels get all up next to me and even if I stomp my feet at them, they stay still, and even come closer in some cases. How come all of a sudden they've got balls now?! There's some shit going on, and I'm gonna get to the bottom of it. Those damn squirrels and birds need to learn their place!

[Prehistoric]

i think it's time for someone to put on the Stupid Helmet.

http://www.victorycollectibles.com/images/mini_helmets/nfl_rev/green_bay.jpg

[BlackGuy]

Hey man I'm just saying...they're up to something...

[Prehistoric]

Gauge that wasn't directed just at you, but all the conspiracy nutjobs out there.

. . . . a reference to "That 70's Show", just in case anyone was wondering.

[Denart]

they should just put your avatar's helmet on...

ziiiiiiiiing



:)

[dfacto]

Mort, and the other conspiracy theorists, let me put it this way.

If it smells like bullshit, looks like bullshit, and comes from bullshit artists, then it's probably bullshit.

I reserve a small miniscule place in my mind for the acceptance of conspiracy theories, but until proof comes up to lend credibility, they stay there in their little enclosure. They may be true, but considering that conspiracy theories generally run in a few general veins, it's hard to see the individual theories as anything more than useless crap.

Look at the moon landing theory. Anyone with a basic knowledge of physics, lighting, material properties, and perspective could shoot down most of the "proofs". Look at the martian face theories. They're bullshit. Look at almost any of the theories and you come across the fantastical, the paranoid, and the insane. It doesn't mean that they're all wrong, but to believe it without compelling proof is downright gullible.

As for the WTC attacks, I remember watching it unfold on TV, and if I remember correctly, both buildings were in fact hit by the airplanes, and their fall looked very plausible to me considering their waffle structure.

Of course, I'm about as qualified as you are to discuss the structural integrity of skyscrapers, the plausibility of an aircraft evading radar, or most of the other things you mentioned. This is why I file your rant under "bullshit" in my mental index, because I see no proof, you give no proof, and the events did appear to unfold the way most people say, at least at the superficial level.

Btw, it's all the fault of the Islamo-Fascist-alien-banker-Jews. Even this very post. They control everything.:grandpa:

[llothcat]

duuuuuude...pass on the joint

[wassermelone]

Every single one of them more of a trainwreck than the last.

Ah, yes, I do agree, sir! Quite right indeed.

[edit]
As for calling it all bullshit... I wasn't. I was calling his reply to me bullshit. I thought it fit the description quite well. As for conspiracy theories, they are closer to what is called truthiness. From wikipedia: "Truthiness is the state or condition of a person purporting to know something emotionally or instinctively, without regard to evidence or to what the person might conclude from intellectual examination." ;)

Of course, all reporting is "truthiness" since I am removed from the events. So in what regard does your truthiness gain purchase over their truthiness? Why get so hyped up about truthiness in the first place? We all live wading through giant heaps of truthiness... and perhaps steeping in bullshit. \w/ :P

[darth massacre]

Btw, it's all the fault of the Islamo-Fascist-alien-banker-Jews. Even this very post. They control everything.:grandpa:
What the hell are you talking about? Its the Knights Templar!

[Undefeated]

What the hell are you talking about? Its the Knights Templar!

By which I assume you mean the Freemasons? :ninja++:

[BlackGuy]

or the illuminati. that name freaks me out.

[darth massacre]

Of course!! They control everything. EVERYTHING!!! That night when your girlfriend refused to have sex.....yep...its them. Or when you found an extra quarter in the vending machine....them again.

[romance]

Screw the emoticon. We need real tin-foil hats...

Need? You mean you don't have one yet? Sheesh. Am I the only one here who has one AND wears it... as in ALL THE TIME.

Oh, and you guys will be glad to know, I finally got those radio transceivers out of my fillings. Hey, no teeth, no problem, right?

[Brutillus]

CIA project MK Ultra. there's some scary stuff, and that was 50 years ago.
wonder what they're up to now...:$
but Mel Gibson ruined it.

[Mort]

Mort, Why is it you hardly ever post art but try to initiate argument in the lounge all the time?

well sometimes i can do both. i cant draw at the moment for some reasons, i have to do it with mouse and i almost cant do that,thats very hard. and i do post in DSG once in a while.
my quality isnt approved as for the finally finished thread or something, im trying to improve. dont see the trouble in some mind bashing in ways of writing while you do that thou.

hope that an idea or theory isnt based on how well someone draws an apple?
the thread was based on conspiracy theorys, and how to wiew them and share them with others. as i mentioned earlier feel free to post about conspiracy theorys here if you want man. hehe.


its like saying well you might be right but can you do that standing on one arm singing the zimbabwe national anthem , no didnt think so.

anyways : *stands behind the "sane" ones and points finger at others*

[Liviu B.]

heh mind if I stir some shit up with the words of one intelligent emcee?
this is true american self-consciousness, as I see it, hope I don't offend anyone

http://www.zombietime.com/world_cant_wait_sf_11-2-2005/part_3/IMG_3578.JPG

[flatliner]

I aint know consiprecy theriost, but I enjoy a good read. Anyone read up about the story behind the track 'Faaip de Oaid', of Tool's album Lateralus? Its really spooky stuff. That track still makes me uncomfortable every time I hear it.

As for the whole stuff behind 9/11, im not sure what to think. A lot of the 'theories' are just crazy, but some do make for a convincing argument.

[dogfood]

I'm not sure why I'm posting this. If folks want to believe that there was some massive black op which took a U.S. military asset and drove it into the pentagon, nothing I say is going to change that.

But it's delusional.

I'll dispense with the heresay which is easily disbelieved first. One person whom I would trust my life to and another in whom I did trust my life, saw the airliner go into the building. They have as much integrity as I can attribute to anyone and I've seen them try to convey orders they disagree with. In short, they believe what they saw.

As for the evidense that there was only enough material to attribute to a fighter-sized aircraft: I've seen wreckage of a fighter which plowed into the dirt and there was only enough identifiable material to fill a trunk. And this was in an environment where there was dirt and metal and that was it; no other building materials. The combined energy of the impact and the fuel was more than enough to spread the less-robust pieces into bits small enough to be confused with the building.

"Conspiracy Theory" can certainly be a term attached to an idea in order to give it "kook" status, but many of them are simply a way to rail against a (subconscious) feeling of overwhelming powerlessness. There's a feeling of superiority in believing that one has uncovered some deeply held fact by an almost omnipotent force.

But, while I think mankind can do without a number of types (terrorists, dictators, boy bands), I think the doubter serves a very important purpose. There is a difference, though between nutbag and theorist (like the difference between who planned 9/11 and the possible shape of the Earth).

Of course, there have been some good movies with some pretty scary conspiracy theories (so that's probably a good avenue for kook-dom).

[Mort]

well one must be able to speculate and wonder without beeing called a kook.

pretty awful to see close minded artists. its like scientist that cant do math.

yea hence the name conspiracy theory comes from thinking that some big coverup is beeing made or we are beeing lied to by some sort of goverment.

seems to be a thin line between madness and genious again. often measured in succes. if you are thou indeed insane then you better get some money so that you atleast become exentric, ppl seem to enjoy and accept that much more.

is the big foot theory considered a conspiracy theory or just a theory?


btw . what is the diffrence if it was a fighter jet or a jumbo jet?
i mean why cover up that fact if so?

[dogfood]

well one must be able to speculate and wonder without beeing called a kook.
Absolutely, and I wasn't calling you one as you've mentioned before this was merely a specualtive discussion. But when one can tie absolute belief to fantastic speculation against a mountain of valid evidence which demonstates a far more logical and easier explanation on a large number of cases, there comes a time when one passes from theory to fantasy.

What I'm saying is that people who don't believe anything happens as it seems are hurting those who have valid points on certain events.

Oh, and I have questions about a lot of weird stuff, but there are several points of history with evidence satisfactory to me.

I assume your request to know the difference between a tactical jet and an airliner is rhetorical.

[dfacto]

Bigfoot is not a conspiracy theory, because there is no conspiracy there. It's a cryptozoological theory.

And just because you're an artist doesn't mean you have to be open minded to everything that rolls your way. That's not artistry, that's gullibility.

Speculating without being called a kook is fine, but if you've known any actual conspiracy theory buffs, it tends to go past simple speculation, and past into utter assurance that they're right, and that "THEY" are out to get you.

[Zaknafain]

The CIA hacked the icq network today.

[Mort]

, there comes a time when one passes from theory to fantasy.

What I'm saying is that people who don't believe anything happens as it seems are hurting those who have valid points on certain events.

.

so whould you call religion a theory or perhaps fantasy?

[dfacto]

A fantastical un-scientific theory.

[blacky]

conspiracies are "the tools of the ignorant"

Corect if one believes in it so hard, that he looses track of reality.

Wrong if one only sees reality from a realistic point of view and never lets the "what if, idea" spin through his head.

My interest for conspiracies and such is based on curiosity and fantasy.
As Hobbes said: "Just because sth. has not happened ever before, doesn't mean it will never happen. "
There's too little a man can know about the world around him to be able to come up with rules on what is and what is not.

Anything is possible.

[blacky]

A fantastical un-scientific theory.

Religion doesn't have to be unscientific.
Take Einstein:
After turning his back on religion at all in his teenage, he'd become more and more Religious or at least convinced of some Godlike Intelligence in the Universe, the more he got into science and the more complex matter became visible to him. He wouldn't believe in a coincidence on how the anything evolved, so to speak in the end.

[darth massacre]

IF YOU LOOK TOO HARD, YOU CAN FIND A CONSPIRACY IN EVERYTHING.


Dan Brown made his millions this way. Go figure.

[blacky]

You don't have to look that hard, I just don't want people to be blind and say; You're stupid, you're ignorant.

[dfacto]

Religion doesn't have to be unscientific.
Take Einstein:
After turning his back on religion at all in his teenage, he'd become more and more Religious or at least convinced of some Godlike Intelligence in the Universe, the more he got into science and the more complex matter became visible to him. He wouldn't believe in a coincidence on how the anything evolved, so to speak in the end.

But he can't prove any of this, just like no religion today can prove it's supernatural claims. Without proof, or at least a large body of compelling evidence, no theory can be considered scientific. Lets not go there, PM me if you wish to discuss it in depth, but religion is not scientific, and it's major tenets are definitely anything but. They have the possibility to be scientific if the right conditions are met, but that hasn't happened.

[Scubasteve]

Silly thread. I think it was fairly innocent in nature and doesn't warrent all the bad blood. Anyway, I think the idea that the US government was behind 911 is silly, but believe what you want. here is how I break it down...


Big Foot - only a big truck (or maybe a hairy dude)

Lockness - a floating tree branch at best... (something to draw tourist to somewhere thats really just a big lake)

The lunar landing - They landed on the moon (Big whoop!)

911 - A terrorist attack (Die Osama!)

Masons - My grandpa was a mason... I think they just got together every so often and got drunk. (pretty much like any other social club)


That about sums it up to me.

[Mort]

well the osama gang had been trained by the us "cia" and they stood under the command of older bush when he was in charge. then when his son took his place the plane started to crash. and large military action was applied to clean up any unecessary loose ends in the middleeast. this is reaveled facts that doesnt lead to anything but suspicion. and intrestly convenient.

osama himself was trained by the cia under the gulf war period. why these guys had to go i dont know.
sadam was like ,well we might asweell while we are down there.
so the whole war is the older bush `s dream . an finish of the desert storm.
and to get rid of sadam, but would it be done without the terror attack?
whould the us finance an invasion and to get rid of sadam?

these are facts that are as obvious as the jfk assasination wasnt a one man job.
but we settle for the truth that is on display at the moment.
hurts to many ppl to find out.

truth has many faces, but we choose the most attractive one.

dont really care personally if it was staged or whatever, but i feel that i cant just settle for one truth.

but as artists i think conspiracy theorists try to make the world a little more intresting to live in. the truth can also be a bit boring sometimes, and they just add what if. just as some artists exaggerates some things.

[Pixeldragoon]

The point I was trying to make was: Stop stirring up shit and draw more.

[llothcat]

damn...2pgs? There's gotta be somethin' to this....

[Silvertone]

[There's no proof they said that. Prove me wrong please. (and no... TV propaganda dramas do not count as proof)]

Are you saying I should leave all my videotaped FOX news channel segments at home? And just what the heck is a TV propaganda drama anyways?? Why do I get the feeling any evidence about Osama's role in 911 will be considered "doctored"?

The other stuff I "lumped in" has nothing to do with you, it's a whacky thread about funny conspiracy theories and stuff!

Anyways, here's 2 for ya.

From the St. Petersburg Times:

UNITED AIRLINES FLIGHT 93
8:42 a.m.: Departed Newark for San Francisco
10:01 a.m.: Crashed in Stony Creek Township, Penn.

Ziad Samir Jarrah, pilot and group leader
Age: 26.
Nationality: Lebanese.
Jarrah was the leader of the only hijacking group with four members, a factor that may have enabled a group of passengers to overpower them. Raised in a middle-class family, Jarrah left Lebanon in 1996. In Germany, he partied and seemed to enjoy Western culture. In 1999, after meeting Atta, he got his pilot’s license in Hamburg and dropped out of school. He turned up several months later in Venice, Fla., to take flying lessons. In 2001, he moved to Hollywood and began martial arts classes. On Sept. 9, he checked out of a Deerfield Beach motel with Atta, al-Shehhi and others.

From Wikipedia:

[The hijackers reportedly took control of the aircraft by using box cutter knives to kill flight attendants and at least one pilot or passenger. The 9/11 Commission could only establish that two of the hijackers had recently purchased Leatherman multi-function hand tools [5], but some form of noxious chemical spray, such as tear gas or pepper spray, was reported to have been used on American 11 and United 175 to keep passengers out of the first-class cabin. Bomb threats were made on three of the aircraft, but not on American 77.]

Now where did I leave that pesky 911 Commission Report around here? Oh well, I'm wasting too much time as it is.

-


Remember Buzz Aldrin punching out that lunar landing conspiracy theory guy? That's whatchya get suckas! POW!!
http://www.csicop.org/articles/20021018-aldrin/

As far as the plane hitting the Pentagon thingy, check out The Azari C-130 Crash
Example of Debris from the Collision of a Large Aircraft with a Building.
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/compare/c130crash.html

[Redder]

If you take the first letters of the days, S M T W T F S, and remove M W F you get S T T S or better known in the government as System Test & Troubleshooting Station. What is this system test and where is this so called troubleshooting station. Spoooky.

[llothcat]

....annnnnnndd they take MWF's off to dress up as CALtrans workers on the 15 fwy in California to amuse themselves, most often at 3am, timed perfectly with that fwy's closure.

[Allseeing Eye]

i like the 9/11 conspiracy, has any1 here seen the documentary loose change? it has so much overwhelming evidence that proves some fishy stuff going on...if u guys want teh d/l link holla at me

[Zord]

The point I was trying to make was: Stop stirring up shit and draw more.

Seconded.

[Denart]

If you take the first letters of the days, S M T W T F S, and remove M W F you get S T T S or better known in the government as System Test & Troubleshooting Station. What is this system test and where is this so called troubleshooting station. Spoooky.



S M T W T F S

[MoP]

Holy shit Denart, I never noticed that before! The Calendar Conspiracy!

[D.Labruyere]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1703094,00.html?gusrc=rss
! hit that! it's some sort of conspiracy. . . . . .

[ilovemytaxidermist]

bat boy so exsists.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/ilovemytaxidermist/BatBoyFBI.jpg

[Pixeldragoon]

Seconded.

Thirded.

[Simonl]

Well, most of the mad conspiracy theorists I know tend to favour the idea that they are under constant scrutiny from the Feds/MIB/Illuminati etc. I think this is to make up for the fact that no one else wants much to do with them. From what I can tell, people invent conspiracy theories to try to make themselves look more knowledgeable and interesting than they actually are.

Although, with the various WTC 9/11 conspiracies involving the CIA, govt etc planning and staging the attacks themselves, I think that such people found it more comforting to believe that the Government did it than to believe that fortress America, the world's only military hyper power, could be so easily compromised by foreigners.