what to do when...

[Jens]

edit: i was senseless and stupid

[Dizon]

wow, nice etchings and drawings from the other teacher. What's his name?

[Jens]

Andreas Vanpoecke
I agree his a great artist, too bad he's not the teacher of my class :p

this is his site, big download though
http://andreas.vanpoucke.free.fr/

[Dizon]

I know! And it appeared quite small on my screen.

[blog]

yeah that other teacher is awesome!, Thanks

[Jens]

i thinkif you acces it through the .com site it appears small, if i acces it through this url it appears ok to me http://andreas.vanpoucke.free.fr/

[Poohgee]

I disagree a bit with U .. saying that this guys (1st) work is rubbish.

I think quite often people have the tendency when they are using a computer to just throw all effects & graphics at something when simple straight forward graphics would be a lot more effective .

I think they are all very good graphics works .

I dont know what his brief for each was or what they are for but IMO composition & combination of graphic elements in his work is completly fine.

Some of them IMO are actually very well done & very good ideas.

Things dont have to be/look ultra polished with a fancy layer & effect etc on everything .. it can IMO also end up looking crap.

Just IMO :)

[Tully]

I say keep your mouth shut on the subject. Do his assignments, learn what you can, pass the course and don't take any more classes from him if at all possible. Take some from that etching guy!

I've had teachers whose work I didn't appreciate, but just because you don't like their work doesn't mean they won't have useful information to impart. If they don't, you can either slog through the crap or change schools.

[asoir]

I say keep your mouth shut on the subject. Do his assignments, learn what you can, pass the course and don't take any more classes from him if at all possible. Take some from that etching guy!

I've had teachers whose work I didn't appreciate, but just because you don't like their work doesn't mean they won't have useful information to impart. If they don't, you can either slog through the crap or change schools.
Now I'm pretty sure Elwell would know more about all of us, but I've gotta agree with this, Poohgee's I disagree with, some of the stuff there is horrible, I actually could do 90% of those... Really, some are ridiculously uncreative.

[dfacto]

I dunno, some of his portfolio work is quite visually appealing. Perhaps it isn't creative, and maybe when someone has a deeper knowledge of graphic design it looks bad, but personally I see nothing wrong with most of the works. Some are rather lame of course, but considering that these appear to be for publications, he got the job done.

And I'm not knowledgeable about the graphic design industry and the customer interaction, but isn't it the customer that decides what they want? Maybe what you see is simply what the customers wanted?

But the website does suck, although from the page source, it doesn't look like he has some incredible grasp of HTML either way.

[Jason Rainville]

Now I'm pretty sure Elwell would know more about all of us, but I've gotta agree with this, Poohgee's I disagree with, some of the stuff there is horrible, I actually could do 90% of those... Really, some are ridiculously uncreative.

As a student of graphic design, I agree with Poohgee.

The designs are clean, easy to read and comunicative. I didn't have to read into what each piece was, they all spoke their message; this is about business, this is a casual layout for a community event, etc.

The fact that you can "do" those designs means nothing. You could have done the Nike logo, but you didn't. I could have done the McDonald's logo, but I didn't. Fact is someone already thought of it, and no one is going to hire me if I say "Well I have no portfolio, but I swear I can copy this guys work and make it look like mine."

You don't have to be creative to be a graphic designer (it helps, though), you just need to know how to communicate visually. Pushing creativity to the point of 'in your faceness' can often kill an otherwise balanced and clean design.

[Jason Rainville]

wow, triple post.

Sorry all.

[Jason Rainville]

Double post

[Elwell]

Listen to Tully.
I have no major problem with the work itself... some is better, some is worse, but it's all competent GD work. The web design is circa 1996, but as long as he's not teaching web design, don't sweat it. Lots of designers with a print background, even very good ones, have a hard time with web design because the constraints and vocabulary are so different.

[Kian]

Also, a past GD graduate, I can say his typography is actually pretty good. I agree that some graphics do look dated, esp the concentric swirl thing. But as Tully said best, just get the work done man. Don't worry about impressing your tutors, impress us instead ;) Thats what got me through college.

[CaptainInsano]

Seriously, it's not good to publically humilate your teacher like that. Word might get around and he could find out. But more than that, it's just pretty low-class.

[darth massacre]

So exactly what's wrong with his stuff? I thought they are all very competent designs. Not groundbreaking, but yeah competent and serves the purpose. I've seen some teachers who really shouldn't be teaching, but then if they don't teach they can't really do much else. I can't say much about his teaching style, but his works prove he's competent enough to make a living out of it.

Either way, like Tully says, that's many years of experience to sap from this teacher. If you don't see any value in it, then you can always talk to him about what you want to learn more of. Teachers follow a syllabus that is often not written by them and will respond to students who are proactive and suggest new topics to incorporate into the content of the syllabus.

[Jens]

I've been basing my opinion on those sites mostly. I guess the work IS competent but not really creative, but his work is probably meant for companies who are looking for this kind of stuff.

You gotta understand me though, it's almost time to turn in semester assignments and i'm nervous and pissed that he told so many people so many times to start over. Work off which I thought was good and after seeing his site thought it was better than his. The thing is that we are an illustration class and we don't do graphic design. The class is incorporated in our program, but I was just expecting that we could solve our graphic design in an illustative fashion. When he saw one lettre that was not aligned according to typographical rules (which we never learned from him or anyone else), he told the person to restart.


It's not my kind of work, but then again that's why I chose illustration in stead of graphic design. Lesson learned... Somethimes you wonder why you are still so childish :)

[Necronomicouch]

I once had a teacher who would make us draw tons and tons of cubes. He was constantly criticizing my friends cubes and telling her they looked like they were "sliding off the page". Now I saw them and I honestly didnt feel they were that bad.

Then one day he brought in one of his paintings which had a flowerpot in it that was cube shaped. Guess what it looked like it was doing? Sliding off the page...and I don't mean a little bit, this thing had some seriously fucked up perspective. For someone that beat us over the head with cubes day in and day out he couldnt cube his way out of a paper bag (does that make any sense?)

But all in all I learned a lot from that class. Sure I didn't take him seriously in his own art, but he did make some good points when critiquing our stuff. So like others said, just ignore it and take what he says, not as he does, as good advice.

Those who can't, teach, and all that ;)

[walnut]

Are you going to St-Lucas Antwerp? I'm asking because i recognize the person whose design work you showed (don't recognize the other one though.) He was a teacher (sort of) of mine there and what i remember of him is that he was a nice enough guy. When i see his i can't say that it's bad. it's in fact pretty solid (perhaps kind of dry but he's dutch so what do you want). It's just that i think if you're going for illustration you shouldn't get crits only from Graphic Designers. Which, if you are going to St.-Lucas, would probably be the case.

[Jens]

small world indeed, i guess he'll probably find out soon enough hahaha

Yes St-Lucas Antwerp. :)
What year were you there?

[unknown_epiphany]

From a composition and typographical standpoint your teacher did an excellent job on his portfolio. Some of his stuff is a bit dull and i would never use feathering but he does follow the rules pretty well. And i would say its always a good idea to learn just a bit of Graphic Design because who knows if it will help you in the future.

[John]

Yeah, i think your teachers typography isn't that bad. It's a pretty interesting subject, maybe dig up some books about it. I learned a bit about it, and it pays off for illustration as well. I suggest you look through some Typography yearbooks as well. It's actually more fun than i'd thought at first.

[darth massacre]

You gotta understand me though, it's almost time to turn in semester assignments and i'm nervous and pissed that he told so many people so many times to start over. Work off which I thought was good and after seeing his site thought it was better than his. The thing is that we are an illustration class and we don't do graphic design. The class is incorporated in our program, but I was just expecting that we could solve our graphic design in an illustative fashion. When he saw one lettre that was not aligned according to typographical rules (which we never learned from him or anyone else), he told the person to restart.
HAHAHA That's GOLD! GOLD I TELL YOU!

Same situation in my case. I'm in an illustration degree course but we have a graphic design module. It was difficult to understand the course requirements at first but most people are slowly getting it after a painful first semester. In any case, it is important for illustrators to understand graphic design elements and graphic design is not always illustrative. I'm sure you know all that theory bit so I'll skip the sermon. Well, I speak with hindsight because I've worked a few years in the field and had a previous art diploma before coming back to school so I know its important....while my mostly 19 yr old classmates were positively going to strangle the dude with their bare hands.


[rant on]
It'll only get worse when you start your professional life :teeth: I'm really not kidding about it. I've restarted untold amount of jobs simply because the client feels its not the direction they want to go in - anymore. I used to do illustration and storyboards for the military....they're the worst clients ever. Because only the General has the final say....and every commissioned REMF pus nuts asspuke from 2LT upwards want their 2 cents be included in every WIP update and will pull rank on you (even though I'm an NCO who's already out of the army).
[/rant off] :teeth:

[walnut]

I attended there 1998-2003. What year are you in now? And what teachers did you throw at you. Hope you don't still have Anne Kurris man. Worst excuse for an art teacher i ever had. (OMG i hope she doesn't read that!)

Darh: The army needs artists? What for? Sorry to sound blunt but the two don't seem to really match.

[Jens]

ow, this guy is actually a substitute for anne kurris, so i'll have her next semester togheter with hugo (die normaal hoogdruk enzo geeft) for graphic design.

I have hilde for model drawing, tilde for illustration, inge van de kasteele for life drawing..

I'm in the second year.

[Ilaekae]

Jens, I mean this in the kindest and most genteel manner i can muster...

GET THE FUCKING BROOM HANDLE OUT OF YOUR ASS! IT'S STARTING TO AFFECT YOUR BRAIN... :)

Graphic design, and the principles of graphic design are not based on skill with a pencil/brush/paint. The most incredible three designers I ever knew could not draw anything to save their lives. It's a pure thinking process...problem solving...to communicate to a mass audience. Do not...I repeat...DO NOT...judge the field by your need to prove you can DRAW better than they can. The fact that you said what you did when you made your original post is proof that you need this guy...and others like him...more than you know.

You're being "forced"...how sad is that...FORCED...to learn some fundamentals of graphic design because the fields you wish to enter and are training for are MINOR parts of the entire graphic design juggernaut. If you don't learn how these people THINK, you will NEVER advance. There are reasons why a competent designer requires that something be executed a certain way, and you must understand these rationales.

I am a conceptual designer. Have been for over 40 years. I'm not a fuckin' genius, and I don't know all the answers, BUT I made a living in spite of the fact that I have the diplomatic skills of a rabid dog. That says something.

I am also a rare exception in the ad business, at least within my age group, in that I am also an exhibiting painter/sculptor and illustrator. This was not all that common when I came up through the business. In fact, I find that keeping the two "arts" seperate to be a good thing. A designer must solve a problem in the best way he can. This means that nothing is verbotten. An illustrator/concept artist/hand-skills artist generally thinks in terms of "adapting" his/her ability within his/her "genre" to any solution that they present.

What this means is, though I can "draw," I had to include the possible decision in my thought process to hire my biggest competitor to actually execute any illustration treatment I thought was appropriate in the solution of MY job. That's what a good designer does. That is something an illustrator, good or bad, would NEVER do.

There is another thing to consider. Advertising and graphic design efforts are not just aimed at the general public. The vast majority of this work is done in vertical-field areas (meaning all clients/targeted public are; in ferrous metal production, drug research, ballet, banking, other artists, doctors, writers, toy-producers, farmers, etc...), and many of these vertical field clients are full of middle management types that are extremely conservative in approach to "the arts." What you see as an "old-fashioned" treatment may be a ground-breaking idea to many of these people. A designer must understand this. Basically...what's new and original IS NOT always what's best. It might fail to communicate, or even scare off a potential contact/customer because he doesn't see your efforts as "aimed" at him.

Keep drawing. Along the way, take some time to think about why you're drawing. It might open your eyes... :)

[Jens]

I've been basing my opinion on those sites mostly. I guess the work IS competent but not really creative, but his work is probably meant for companies who are looking for this kind of stuff.

You gotta understand me though, it's almost time to turn in semester assignments and i'm nervous and pissed that he told so many people so many times to start over....

It's not my kind of work, but then again that's why I chose illustration in stead of graphic design. Lesson learned... Somethimes you wonder why you are still so childish :)

I admitted my mistake, I realize I was stupid when making the post.
You are right on the entire line, and I deserved it.

I have done some graphic design for a semi-big festival (2500 visitors). And I have met the sponsers, art-directors and the like. I had to learn it the hard way as well. In fact I thought I had come out of that wiser, but I guess this proves I didn't.

[Ilaekae]

Jens, I hope I wasn't offensive. I used to teach, and often ran into very strange opinions on why this or that was important and screw everything else, so I tend to react and jump up and down on somebody's head when I see it again. Old habits die hard... :P

[walnut]

Yeah i guess Ilaekae's right. The sad truth is that it'll be easier for you when you graduate to land a job in graphic design than getting assignments as an illustrator, the Belgian market for illustration being so tiny and all. So if you're good at design, at least you'll earn your bread and you can still do the drawing thing on your own time. You can trust me on this, cause i learned this the hard way. (Three years out of that school and all i had for a job was stacking boxes for Casa)

But the people you have as instructors are pretty cool and they know what they're talking about. You can tell Hilde Steven De Waele said hi btw.