It's not your style and you shouldn't like it.

[waronmars]

What's up with all these people lately using 'it's my style' as an excuse for not listening to crits so generously given by the loving, caring people of ca? I for one am sick of this crappy excuse for mediocrity and feel that it is time for a universal ban on the line "it's my style". from now on if you say that in response to crits, rabid babboons will be transported through your intarnets cable to rape every one of your orifices. or is that the maky83 award? i forgot.
Anyway, this is a totally unnacceptable attitude to take on these forums, and i feel that, amusing as it may be to try to convince people like this otherwise, they should be BANNED immediately. heil the art riech.

AHhhh also, while i'm venting, wtf is up with people responding art that has obvious and sometimes numerous flaws with "wow, that's really good" and "awesome! do more!". I mean people need encouragement but totally ignoring things that need improving is going to bloat egos like nothing else. Seriously, look at an image long and hard before you decide you have nothing else to contribute other than WOW. That goes for critting our leet inner circle of artists too. Sure they are fucking assome, but they still make mistakes, they are only human (not sure about marko, he may be some kind of man/alien hybrid).

/rant

[Number_6]

What's up with all these people lately using 'it's my style' as an excuse for not listening to crits so generously given by the loving, caring people of ca? I for one am sick of this crappy excuse for mediocrity and feel that it is time for a universal ban on the line "it's my style". from now on if you say that in response to crits, rabid babboons will be transported through your intarnets cable to rape every one of your orifices. or is that the maky83 award? i forgot.
Anyway, this is a totally unnacceptable attitude to take on these forums, and i feel that, amusing as it may be to try to convince people like this otherwise, they should be BANNED immediately. heil the art riech.


What about the people who are genuinely good artists using stylistic conventions?


AHhhh also, while i'm venting, wtf is up with people responding art that has obvious and sometimes numerous flaws with "wow, that's really good" and "awesome! do more!". I mean people need encouragement but totally ignoring things that need improving is going to bloat egos like nothing else.

Maybe we didn't notice the flaws.

[scumgrinder]

rooaaaaaar war.

if people follow your suggestions, the amount of posts will be reduced by over 50%

[waronmars]

What about the people who are genuinely good artists using stylistic conventions?

you mean like all those great artists that post on da using the anime convention? A genuinely good artist doesn't use only one convention, and if they are using a style, they will be open to crits.



Maybe we didn't notice the flaws.

i agree that it's hard to notice alot of flaws when your totally overtaken with awesome rendering, but they are around.

rooaaaaaar war.

if people follow your suggestions, the amount of posts will be reduced by over 50%

i could handle 50% less of 'WOW, WHAT PENCILZ DO U USE!?!11", but i guess people are entitled to their ass pats.

edit: I can see where you're coming from, i don't mean telling like http://www.jilliantamaki.com/mainpage.html this chick that her anatomy is off, as jens suggested to me, (the horse anatomy is really good anyway), i mean like http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56956 "IT'S A BEAR, I DON'T CARE WHAT 6 OTHER PEOPLE SAY, YOU'RE IN DENIAL" type stuff.

[scumgrinder]

i guess the crits and help center is there for a reason. anything goes at the sketchbooks, though.

[nuclearbavaria]

the nazis called this "entartete kunst", everythin which did not show german super soldiers in a naturalistic way was was forbidden

anyway, if a manga kid is postin his or her stuff and has no clue about anatomy or light or perspective u might be right that this is not an excuse

but i think your own, unique style is what makes ur stuff interesting and developing this style is the fun about art, or concept art,.. or comic or whateva

[dogfood]

I find myself struggling not to comment on someone else's comment when they give a random ass pat, especially when the artist could use some solid advice.

This is as far as I'll complain, though. I want CA to be better, but harshing on individuals who chime out with a "OMG, u r l337 and yer skillz rock! Grate ork!" might just make us mean.


You know, I think I'm going to crank up the sarcasm.


Just a little.

[Interceptor]

I was just thinking this myself, war. Then I realized how good I am not, but, oh well. Really. I think it just takes alot of self realization before someone is going o start taking crits. And no amount of good advice is going to hep otherwise. But I think in the case of obvious flaws getting asspats. I think it's because it's something decent, but attainable. It's like "woh, I could do THIS? awesome!" So they're more excited for that, maybe?

[Craig D]

Thank (insert random deity here) for your post war.
and dogfood, sarcasm can be educational, and we do all want to help, right?

[waronmars]

but i think your own, unique style is what makes ur stuff interesting and developing this style is the fun about art, or concept art,.. or comic or whateva

Yeah, i'm not saying we should all be robots with no style, but really style is not something you can force, your own style develops from doing your best working hard. I was suprised when my anime fangirl friend said she like my style, i have never really tried to draw in any style, but it seems i have got one.


This is as far as I'll complain, though. I want CA to be better, but harshing on individuals who chime out with a "OMG, u r l337 and yer skillz rock! Grate ork!" might just make us mean.

what can i say, i'm a bitch.

Interceptor: I think I see what you're saying, but maybe we could try and vent our childlike glee in other, more constructive ways. I don't think being good at art really is an issue, though seeing problems in art is definately a skill. i remember being completely blown away with pros like elwell pointing out stuff in art that i never realised, and still am amazed aat the depth of many crits people are giving. i like to think i have grown as critter (?).

[Evil_Sloth]

Even when people have style you can still tell if they suxxors.
For example:
http://mapage.noos.fr/manu_malin/huntersFinal.jpg
And you can tell the leet Anime from the tryhard stuff.
Style is no substitute for talent.
Except for modern art...

[Redder]

One cannot judge style on a single piece of artwork.

[stoph]

its all up to taste. Jeff Koons has a taste for the kitch and cliche, and yet his art sells - not because its particularly good (or original.. or even his own work for that matter), but because it pushes the boundaries, points the finger, asks the questions that nobody is game enough to ask. art is purely subjective, but we view it with an objective filter.

[Undefeated]

First of all, when you ask for or give crits, you're taking the good with the bad. Thats the unspoken deal you're making. And every once in a while someone starts a post like this, and its always a good thing, because the way we accept and make crits is obviously the lifeblood of this communitah.

Ass pats HAVE TO GO, even the well-deserved ones. Look, I know we get a lot of sweet-ass pros here, but is there any reason why those threads should have 4 pages of groping while people who could use a good crit go wanting? (And no, this isn't sour grapes, I've never felt short-changed for attention.) The pros are pros..they know they're good. I'm sure they enjoy the confidence boost and a little extra exposure, but they're already THERE, dig? They dont need it as much as the 18 year old trying to find his way.

I just dont think there's much point to posting nothing but a "wow", not on CA.

If you post a crit, be fair and honest. If someone who posts art cant take a crit, this isn't the place for them anyway. And if you post art, seriously consider what people are pointing out to you. waronmars is right..if the elbow you drew looks like a cock, peehole and balls and all, then you shouldn't hide behind, "well, its my style to draw elbows that look like cock-n-balls." Accept the crit and give it some thought, and be gracious about it whether you agree or not.

Honestly, I think I have a problem with 15-year olds having "styles". When that happens, its normally a copy of someone else's style, and we all know about a copy of a copy and diminishing returns. You develop a style by interpreting good anatomy in your own way, and a lot of people seem to think there's some kind of shortcut.

Making excuses for your art isn't going to help you get any better, and people who make excuses like the ones war is talking about probably arent long for CA.

*goes back to sniffing ether*

[brokk]

That goes for critting our leet inner circle of artists too. Sure they are fucking assome, but they still make mistakes, they are only human
This is the only thing you wrote that I agree with.

I mean people need encouragement but totally ignoring things that need improving is going to bloat egos like nothing else.
Maybe. Depends on the case really. If people ask for crits, feel free to give them. If they don't, then maybe they don't want them. Wether or not that is more or less beneficial to them is another subject, and their problem.

they should be BANNED immediately.
Sounds rather extreme, and, what would be the point exactly? This is a community, not a private country club.

I can understand its frustrating to see that people reject more than kind criticism based on fallacious arguments, but, its just another frustration. Expecting to use that as a reason for banning is just as fallacious.

Bottom line is, if you feel more crits should be given, then start by giving more yourself, because you can't control what other people do. If everyone feels there is a shortage of crits, then everyone can contribute as much as they are willing to, by themselves. Also, give crits to people you feel could benefit from them. If you see someone is already defending themselves with the "its not my style" argument, then just let it be... give crits to someone who does welcome them.

I leave you with this
I don't think being good at art really is an issue, though seeing problems in art is definately a skill. i remember being completely blown away with pros like elwell pointing out stuff in art that i never realised, and still am amazed aat the depth of many crits people are giving. i like to think i have grown as critter (?).
There was another person on this forum who was good at critting and devoted quite some time to doing so, and didn't have much or any art to show. You know who I'm talking about, and what you're saying, bares a resemblance. Just something to think about.

And for the record, yes, I do believe being good at art is an issue.

[Craig D]

b Spirit
A lot of the posts that I have noticed like those mentioned were in the critique section. If they post there (but anywhere on this site actually) they should certainly be expecting crits.

[brokk]

Craig, you're right, and I agree. In that case I'd just say what you said, that if they post in the crit section, they should be expecting crits :)

I still don't think that people who could get defensive over it, is any reason for banning. Not by a long shot.

[Jason Manley]

Even when people have style you can still tell if they suxxors.
For example:
http://mapage.noos.fr/manu_malin/huntersFinal.jpg
And you can tell the leet Anime from the tryhard stuff.
Style is no substitute for talent.
Except for modern art...

manu is one of my fave artists on the site. not sure what u meant by your post but he is a fave of just about all the guys at mb. cool shizz mange.

[waronmars]

Sounds rather extreme, and, what would be the point exactly? This is a community, not a private country club.

I can understand its frustrating to see that people reject more than kind criticism based on fallacious arguments, but, its just another frustration. Expecting to use that as a reason for banning is just as fallacious.

okay, i admit that part was poking fun a bit, but seriously, way more attention is given to people who refuse to take criticism than on those who want it. this irks me.


Bottom line is, if you feel more crits should be given, then start by giving more yourself, because you can't control what other people do. If everyone feels there is a shortage of crits, then everyone can contribute as much as they are willing to, by themselves. Also, give crits to people you feel could benefit from them. If you see someone is already defending themselves with the "its not my style" argument, then just let it be... give crits to someone who does welcome them.

This is sound advice.




I leave you with this

There was another person on this forum who was good at critting and devoted quite some time to doing so, and didn't have much or any art to show. You know who I'm talking about, and what you're saying, bares a resemblance. Just something to think about.

And for the record, yes, I do believe being good at art is an issue.

aaaah, well, whether this particular person was good at critting is another issue altogether. Personally i think their crits were not very deep, nor did they demonstrate a maked understanding of art theory, or practice.

I suppose i should explain myself a i bit more in regards that quote. I said i don't think being good at art is an issue, because interceptor was saying( i think, this is the meaning i gleaned from it) that he didn't feel qualified to say anything about this issue because he wasn't good. i think he prabably said this in the same way that i don't think myself particularly good at art, however i still feel i can give a valid criticism. Certainly a reciever of criticism may look at my art and think, this person doesn't know shit.

Now that i think about it having practical experience with the type of thing you are suggesting would lend alot more weight to your crits in that you can say "i have dont this and this worksbut that doesn't. I would try this". The lines i were thinking along were more like you could read in a book about colour theory etc etc. without actually painting a pic, but really theory and practise are so intertwined that a true undertanding doesn't come without both.

so i change what i said before,


being good at art is an issue, seeing problems in art is definately a skill that grows with your understanding of art theory. An understanding that can only truly grow when couple with practical experience

undefeated: word.

[Evil_Sloth]

Sorry for being hazy Jason, what i meant is that he his style sets him apart as very talented and beautiful, You can tell the difference between a stylistic image and a novice image.
That image was to demonstrate excellent use of style, and when you criticise and image you have to take into account the artists experience and your perception of the image. Another example is mentler who has one of, if not the greatest knowledge of anatomy on this site and yet his personal works are not realisticly accurate but stylistic. So it just depends whether it appeals to the viewer in the purpose the image was intented for.

[CaptainInsano]

just thought I'd remind everyone....


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/ParkerD/arguing.jpg

[EmmDoubleEw]

I see what you mean, I think you took it to an extreme but mostly I agree with you.

Especially newbies that draw anime all wrong, and whenever you critique their stuff they answer "yeah... well I'm drawing anime not ultra-realistic, it's my style" Well I'm sorry, I'm no expert in anime but it sure as hell looks better than what you're doing.

If we think your art isn't at its best, it's not a matter of style, because if it really was stylish we'd probably like it.

[waronmars]

ParkerD we're having a sensible debate, nothing retarded about it. That joke is really getting old, so keep it to yourself if you don't want to contribute.

MW: Yeah, i was being totally extreme with the banninating, i kind of meant that threads where trying to help turns into a total shitfight should be stopped earlier. I suppose whether people waste time on them is their own choice though, and quite frankly i think next time i see a thread like that, for every post, i am going to crit a deserving artist in a sketchbook or the critique section.

[dogfood]

Is it just me or is ParkerD always running in with a Dixie cup of cold water, trying to extinguish some imaginary fire? I keep seeing the "Quit Arguing" light flash on his Hollywood Square.

Relax, we're trying to exercise some demons, here. You have to do a lot of running around in circles... it takes time, man.

War, I'm leaning toward being a bitch, too: your bitch!

[CaptainInsano]

Is it just me or is ParkerD always running in with a Dixie cup of cold water, trying to extinguish some imaginary fire? I keep seeing the "Quit Arguing" light flash on his Hollywood Square.

!

lol!

I win some. I lose some. :shrug:

[waronmars]

Relax, we're trying to exercise some demons, here. You have to do a lot of running around in circles... it takes time, man.

Do you mean exorcise? I totally have a picture in my mind of you running around with a huge demon on a leash


War, I'm leaning toward being a bitch, too: your bitch!

You can be my bitch any day dogfood.

edit:

I feel that this calls for the creation of a group based on giving the best crits all around the board. I think it should be called the CRIT CRUSADERS. dogfood you can be the official team bitch.

[scumgrinder]

all i have to offer are asspats because i still don't feel like i should be handing criticism unless the flaws are very obvious and by very obvious I mean VERY obvious.
I like praise but i like finding out new stuff and more if it's through discussion. i enjoy getting pointers and criticism much more than getting compliments. And by pointers and criticism i mean actual technique related stuff and not advice on what to draw because i'm not ready to move on to different things when i still haven't mastered the basics.

That said i am guilty of not posting my stuff at the critique center for a few reasons. One: I don't like drawing attention and two: i am afraid of getting brutally torn apart.

[brokk]

I can't see the image posted by Evil_Sloth :(

waronmars, I was writting something but I was just going back to what I wrote before, and I promissed myself to try and be less repetivive. Ugh :dead:

I see your point, of course I think we can give valid criticisms. I think that anyone can notice if a house with a door and window looks flat, and if you dont notice it and someone tells you, it can be beneficial. But, not everyone who notices that the house looks flat can also say that you could study perspective, and recomend books or other reference on the subject. So maybe there's a middle ground. Or something like that.

Parker D, not all arguments are negative : P

Oh well. Back to my cave.

EDIT:
all i have to offer are asspats because i still don't feel like i should be handing criticism unless the flaws are very obvious and by very obvious I mean VERY obvious.
Hey, you critted me several times, now I'm depressed :(


j/k :P

[scumgrinder]

that's a lie, it was like only once and about the degenesis dude not wearing winter clothes!

[CaptainInsano]

Parker D, not all arguments are negative : P

P

I don't what you mean! I LOVE arguing. What? You disagree? Well that's complete bullshit! No, I do not think the senate should empower the patriot act for domestic spying! But fighting a war on terror is most important to keep a survellience for enemies in our midst. Yes! No! Screw you, too!


btw... I am pretty much in agreement with Scrumgrinder. I normally don't give out crits on amazing pieces because I don't feel I'm in a position to do so... unless there is some glaring obvious flaw. A lot of times, I don't even see any. I don't think people should be banned for liking a piece and not critiquing some "flaw" in it if they honestly don't see any.

[brokk]

No, you critted my massive black C.O.W. too... you didn't like my cow :( *sniff* : P

EDIT: and the triped cow in IRC. I think those were all. : P See? Now look what you did, I hope you're happy :sadcheerleader:

[Undefeated]

Normally I go with my gut reaction, like when I saw those Prince of Persia concepts that blew my fucking mind. I just post "WOW!" because that's all I have to truthfully say about it. I don't think people should be banned for liking a piece and not critiquing some "flaw" in it.

War already said didn't really mean to ban anyone. In any case, as far as the ass-pats, I think the main issue (at least for me) is that threads like that get about 4 pages worth of replies, all of which are essentially "wow!", while some young pup trying to get some help is lucky if he gets a reply or two with advice for him to improve his work.

[waronmars]

scum wtf are you talking about, you're a fucking kickass artist. Shame on you for not critting more. CHICKEN!

[CaptainInsano]

Well, in that case I totally agree. I post critiques if I feel that whatever I have to say might actually be helpful. I occassionaly post the "WOW!" response, but sometimes when you see a picture that just the pimp shit, you just have to say "dyamn! that's the shit!"

And yeah, it's annoying when someone weasels out of a crit by saying "it's my style." Well buddy, it still looks like crap.

[Ilaekae]

"i like to think i have grown as critter..."

You have, Interceptor...most definitely. We're just not sure what species of critter...


"all i have to offer are asspats because i still don't feel like i should be handing criticism unless the flaws are very obvious and by very obvious I mean VERY obvious." [scumgrinder]

Maybe you put your finger right smack on the problem and don't even realize it... Everybody sees the OBVIOUS flaws...d'oh...it's when we start to notice the ones that AREN'T obvious that we realize that our own art is improving to the point where we no longer have to worry about obvious shit. We've become tuned to our own errors and trying to correct them, so we notice them in other's work.

A crit is as much a way to improve our own work as it is to help someone else. That's often why people who DON'T crit others in a proper manner seem to have problems with their own work...over...and over...and over...

As for asspats...I've already figured out who the guys are here who don't need ego food. I don't even bother posting in that particular thread unless it's something soooooo fuckin' incredible that it makes me pass out...and even then I'll just do a "Nice..." For myself, I'd rather get five "What the fuck were you thinkin' when you put that tit/fingernail/helmet/doorknob there?!?" than a few thousand "WOW!"s.... What I don't like is nit-picking. It's okay to point it out just so it's mentioned, but makin' a big deal over the fact that one of Rembrandt's eyes is 0.0006mm bigger than the other on his self portrait sucks. Get a life.







(...it's the right one, by the way..)

[Dizon]

The beginner should focus on getting a good grasp of the rudiments for making Art before developing a style.

"Originality is more concerned with sincerity than with peculiarity." - Harold Speed

[scumgrinder]

I disagree with what was said about giving criticism as means to improving your own work, much more is involved in the process of actually giving criticism and much more is involved in the process of improving. would you be able to improve if you were isolated? yes, you would still have the ability to observe and reproduce and practice. The connection made between giving criticism and improving is almost magical. I don't want to use examples but i have seen people giving lots of criticism and never improving. Giving criticism might improve my social skills and my faulty command of the english language But when i am ready to point out flaws and actually write them down it's because i already see them and even if i see flaws that others don't see i can still choose not to point them out. that won't stunt my development as an artist.

[Dizon]

I disagree with what was said about giving criticism as means to improving your own work, much more is involved in the process of actually giving criticism and much more is involved in the process of improving. would you be able to improve if you were isolated? yes, you would still have the ability to observe and reproduce and practice. The connection made between giving criticism and improving is almost magical. I don't want to use examples but i have seen people giving lots of criticism and never improving. Giving criticism might improve my social skills and my faulty command of the english language But when i am ready to point out flaws and actually write them down it's because i already see them and even if i see flaws that others don't see i can still choose not to point them out. that won't stunt my development as an artist.

It is a means to improve IF you actually pay attention to it.

It's true what you said about people giving lots of crits and never improving. How about the people who actually receive these crits and advice and never seeing those implemented in his/her work? Now that makes critiquing a waste of time.

[scumgrinder]

but giving criticism as a way of improving your own work is like counting and doing math out loud to grasp formulas... In the end you already had them , you just had to hear yourself saying it. It might work for some but it isn't a rule, it's much closer to being a romantic idea than it is to being a rule. Let's not forget that the real way to improve is actually practising.
Listening, being open, receiving feedback... this helps.

[waronmars]

i'm saying improving your art improves your criticism, not the other way around. I do think looking at crits others are recieving and how they improve their work based off those crits is a good learning tool though. For example if someone says 'you need more blue in that shadow' or something, then the artist does it, and you can see the improvemet, that would help, although you'd need to understand WHY blue would look better, if you get my drift.

lol ilaekae, i said that critter thing. credit where it's due, man.

[scumgrinder]

scum wtf are you talking about, you're a fucking kickass artist. Shame on you for not critting more. CHICKEN!
haha
no, i am far from it

i have issues rendering, i have issues with my range of values, with composition, and i am also very fucking lazy

[waronmars]

baaawk bawk bawk

[scumgrinder]

i'll punch you in the gut

[CaptainInsano]

everybody... c'mon... let's be friends.

Originally Posted by dogfood
Is it just me or is ParkerD always running in with a Dixie cup of cold water, trying to extinguish some imaginary fire? I keep seeing the "Quit Arguing" light flash on his Hollywood Square.

oh! Oh umm.... yeah! conflict-and-unrest-w00t!-w00t!

Step right up everybody! Scrumgrinder VS. Waronmars!

*starts taking bets*

[scumgrinder]

i was kidding, i would need a very expensive plane ticket to be able to get revenge

[0kelvin]

Actually, I agree with Ilaekae. I find critting other work one of the best ways to work out problems I have in my own work. It's hard to understand, or even recognize, a problem in something you created yourself, but seeing it in another picture helps you work it out from a fresh perspective.

However, this only works in certain cases. You can't go around critting easy newbie flaws until you level up. Posting a hundred links to Loomis isn't going to get you anywhere. This type of critting takes work and a fair bit of thought. If you see the flaw and know how to fix it immediately, it's probably not going to help you improve (that doesn't mean you shouldn't help, though). It's the ones where you see that something looks funny but you're not sure what exactly it is that will help you the most. Investigate the problem, examine the picture in detail until you figure it out. Once you've figured it out, congratulations, you've just improved! In the future, you'll notice that kind of flaw much quicker, and in some cases you'll even notice it in your own past work.



0kelvin

[waronmars]

pussy.

[scumgrinder]

haha stop teasing

[llothcat]

hell...if i wanted asspats for my art work, I wouldn't be posting on this board. I would surround myself with yesmen that would fawn all over me and my massive art skillz. Which is why I'm here to begin with.

[asoir]

I agree with the principle of people who just claim it's their style and don't learn anything. I also think the person who see's a flaw should just share their opinion and see if anyone else notices it and show that it's not just from one person, but if there's none to find, what's wrong with a good asspat?

[Hyver]

rooaaaaaar war.

if people follow your suggestions, the amount of posts will be reduced by over 50%

that *would* be a good thing, imo

[waronmars]

something i don't like also is people ignoring crits you give them, like not even aknowledging you posted anything. I've posted crits of pros and been ignored or brushed off too :/

[PHATandy]

I totally agree with war...

its not abolishing asspatting.. cus i mean some work really deserves it.. the stuff from the MB guys etc and the other really talented artists shouldnt go unnoticed...
its just asspatting work which really isnt that great.. just because you cant fins any real crits for it.

Overall though i think.. its kind of hard to ask for stuff like this to happen. I mean it would be cool if the whole level of critage quality went up...

but thats a hard thing to ask.. and banning people for useless crits is pretty stupid.


Nice rant. BTW.

[dogfood]

War - I am chagrined :nohope: and shall not allow any more demons on the elliptical machine.

Additionally, I think critting a piece can make you better with planning out your own art. If one can notice an error and internalize without committing it, one has learned. I don't think I learn better than when I'm instructing; it's an amazing process and works well in all sorts of environments.

For those (usually new) members who just want to comment in order to buck up an otherwise mediocre piece: you're not only not helping, you're hurting. Most of the young artists hear plenty of praise form their moms and the snotty kid in the next seat (while they're ignoring math and doodling out Batman or a robot). There are plenty of sites that give false praise. This site was started by the heavies to be a place where artists could get real help. So, yes, I'm going to say it,

If you don't have anything constructive to say, don't say it (with exceptions*).

*OK, I will sometimes poke my fingers in someone's thread for the following reasons:
-to exorcise a little wit (war)
-I'm in the lounge
-to inform
-to subscribe to the thread
-to shout out to a bud
These last two are because I'm too lazy to use the nifty tools available to me.

The threads heavy on the ass-patting (which usually is for the heavies) make such a small percentage of the threads, that it doesn't bother me at all. People generally don't take much time to type “OMFG, I just squeezed out my pancreas!!!”. And sometimes these are for a new professional member, which I think leaves a nice taste in the mouth for them and may lead to them posting more of their stuff here.

All good.

Let's just get back to making valid, constructive comments (and if we can keep them from being personal, all the better) for those members who need them and should expect them when they post here.

[waronmars]

yeah, that and photoshopping marko's face.











i am a valuable member of these forums. really i am.

[asoir]

quit braggin'
;)

[yAdam]

I sometimes don't crit other peoples work because I can spend ages re-reading what i am typing, just to make sure what i'm saying isn't stupid. Or if someone else has already pointed the problem/s out then there's not much point in saying the same thing. If I went through a load of work critiquing everything I'm seeing then I wouldn't have any time to work myself.

It's nice to get recognition for your work, but I definately agree with what people are saying about art that might not necessarily deserve such praise. The stars annoy me, I totally agree with a lot of the ratings, especially artists who've made such an amazing progression since they started posting here, but when I click on a thread thats rated 4 or 5 I expect to see great things....I get confused when I see threads that so blatantly sould be 4 or 5 and others that are 4 or 5 that are not worth that rating..Art is all down to opinion though, but most or all using this forum should be able to recognise it.

[fukifino]

I disagree with what was said about giving criticism as means to improving your own work, much more is involved in the process of actually giving criticism and much more is involved in the process of improving. would you be able to improve if you were isolated? yes, you would still have the ability to observe and reproduce and practice. The connection made between giving criticism and improving is almost magical. I don't want to use examples but i have seen people giving lots of criticism and never improving. Giving criticism might improve my social skills and my faulty command of the english language But when i am ready to point out flaws and actually write them down it's because i already see them and even if i see flaws that others don't see i can still choose not to point them out. that won't stunt my development as an artist.

I completely dissagree with this. I find, personally, that critiquing and commenting on others work makes me think critically about it in a way that I might not have if I just drooled over it. It's much easier to be objective to someone elses work. Just pointing out that something looks "off" is usually not very helpful. But I usually try to take the time to analyze problems I see in others art and while it's often a struggle, the process usually results in some new insight for me. Might not work for everyone, but I certainly find it valuable.

And War, I totally agree with you. And I also hate it when I take the time to make a well thought out comment and then the original poster never even comes back to respond to the thread. It's like..why the fuck did you even bother posting it in the first place? Shit like that just makes me not want to comment on anything anymore.

[dogfood]

And I also hate it when I take the time to make a well thought out comment and then the original poster never even comes back to respond to the thread. It's like..why the fuck did you even bother posting it in the first place? Shit like that just makes me not want to comment on anything anymore.
That is one of my big annoyances, as well. It is even worse when the original poster does come back, but acknowledges none of the comments, and makes esesentially no change, or just posts another image with the same mistakes. <nails on chalkboard sound>

[darth massacre]

I'm not the biggest critic on this forum and hardly crit artwork over the internet because of a few reasons.

- Asspats always win. The scroll button on the mouse works wonders for artists who couldn't handle crits.

- Too many things to point out. Besides stylistic preferences, there are usually many things going on in a picture that can be spotted in a blink of an eye. I'm sure most of you here understand that. But to put that visual information into words....I don't have the patience for that.

- Most important of all is the artists's attitude in the first post. If I get the feeling the artist isn't looking for a crit but just posting his works in a show and tell way...there's no point because the artist isn't looking to improve anyway.

- I prefer face to face crits. Its a lot harder that way but you also learn a lot more. From presenting your work to everyone in a professional manner, to accepting really brutal critique on the spot and to manage your emotions while defending your "choice of colors". Though it could be difficult without a big group of artists gathering to review each other's works on a regular basis.

The unfortunate thing is asspats will stick around because among us are a variety of artists who are in different spectrums of a "career" in art. Just like what Undefeated said about good and bad crit.....There will be those who are working in the top tier of the industry and others who are bottom feeders...there are youngsters who want to get into the industry who value good crit and also those who are here not knowing industry players are not here for "fun". Just like there are different levels of critique, there are different levels of artists with different expectations in the online community. Gotta take the good with the bad.

I'm not suggesting we should stop giving crits. I don't believe anyone can say that crits are bad. But if you really have to, do what Ilaekae does....make sure the artist you're writing a crit for deserves your time. It will save you guys a lot of frustration.

[NoSeRider]

http://user.aol.com/zappazong/stuff/beardsley.jpg
http://beardsley.artpassions.net/beardsley.html

What's the difference between This and That?
And what's considered acceptable?

http://mapage.noos.fr/manu_malin/huntersFinal.jpg

[Elwell]

I don't understand the question(s). And what's with the piggy?

[NoSeRider]

Seems to me people want conceptart.org to be strictly traditional in the sense of Rockwell and Sargent......rather then Art Nouveau kinda stuff.....what piggy?

[Craig D]

NoSeRider
could you explain yourself a bit.
I don't get where you got that impression of this site
or how it fits into this thread

[NoSeRider]

Manu's drawing was posted earlier on this thread as talent/style that was considered unacceptable......it was posted earlier. So I'm assuming I'm following the thread.

I guess the question is how 'traditional' should art be?

I reread it.....1st post vague, 2nd post clearified as good art....still what's acceptable?

[yAdam]

I thought i was reading sloth's post as that style doesn't suck.. but re-reading i think he meant the opposite.. so I'm confused too. Like I said before though, its all a matter of opinion, whether its considered traditional or not shouldn't really come into it (?)

[Craig D]

Seems to me people want conceptart.org to be strictly traditional in the sense of Rockwell and Sargent......rather then Art Nouveau kinda stuff...

I thought we favoured axe wielding barbarians and girls with big tits?

[Undefeated]

Tits.

[Blue]

I think we are all missing the obvious point: Some artists just suck and don't know it. :)

[dogfood]

I think we are all missing the obvious point: Some artists just suck and don't know it. :)
As opposed to the ones who suck and do know it.

There isn't a clear line between sucking and not sucking; there are infinite degrees of inhalation that lead from full-on "suck" all the way back to a complete lack of "suck". We all sit in that spectrum.


It's windy.

[Qitsune]

One thing I find quite useful is vicarious crits. I read the crits someone said on someone else's piece and I learn something. Even if I'm not at the same level as that other artist (for better or worse) I can still see what he did wrong and think how I could improve on my own stuff from it. I've actually learned a lot here this way, since I don't post all that much art in the first place.

[llothcat]

There isn't a clear line between sucking and not sucking; there are infinite degrees of inhalation that lead from full-on "suck" all the way back to a complete lack of "suck". We all sit in that spectrum.





i think i found a new signature....

[MarkHarchar]

I myself have found that I will go into the Finally Finished area and look at a piece and see something obvious (to me at least) that I feel should be pointed out. But my post is like 15th after 14, "wow, that's awesome", or "the watchamabobber in the whatsits is fantastic!". I almost feel like my critique will go unheard and in many cases goes unregarded. I'm ok with saying good things about technique and style so that someone knows they have hit the mark, but stuff like described above is a bit aggitating.

[Snowsfall]

You know.... asspat's don't have to be such an evil thing here. If you expand on that patting of ass to point out what you like about the piece, it can be just as informative to the artist as "omg her left knee joint is a centimeter off".

[poise]

I agree with you Snowsfall. It is good to hear what is working in your paintings or drawings. good point! I think Sve does a wonderful job at that, what I have seen from her crits.

If you can put down what's in your imagination and feel successful, then your a happy camper. :)

[loomer]

You know.... asspat's don't have to be such an evil thing here. If you expand on that patting of ass to point out what you like about the piece, it can be just as informative to the artist as "omg her left knee joint is a centimeter off".

WORD to all that...

[blog]

a good critique would be what works and and what doesn't

[Crane]

CA needs to be MEAN! we MUST crit HARD to filter out the mankies!/m\ \w/
SCREW NICE! people who want to be PRO ARTISTS will know that by bringing out the crit artillery we are being NICE, we are HELPING THEM ON THEIR WAY TO GREATNESS!!!

We must weed out the WEAK, CRIT CRIT CRIT until they CRY! then they will either accept it and learn something get get on the RIGHT PATH or they will Defend themselfs and their piss poor excuse for art like a cornered HOBO!

This is not asspat heaven, THIS IS THE ARTISTS 1920s BOOTCAMP!!!
SO pick ya asses up, stop worrying about moral standards, stop worrying about offending someone, pull out your Snipers and headshot them some fucking CRITS! *slams fisted in palm*:needle:


:yayca: :teeth: 8)

[DSillustration]

We must weed out the WEAK, CRIT CRIT CRIT until they CRY!
yay for that!
i recommend we change the name from conceptart.org to "TOUGH-LOVE.ORG"

[waronmars]

in regards those pics that were posted, sloth was saying that pic is an example of good style, as opposed to anime fanboi style

tough love- make those ass pats a bit harder and the SPANKING begins!

[Marko Djurdjevic]

Good lord. It's a day before christmas and the lounge is turning into a gay fest again.
Need some tits.

M

[llothcat]

....
so you're assuming all of us are male?
that's sooooo typical....

[Quicksilver]

Good lord. It's a day before christmas and the lounge is turning into a gay fest again.
Need some tits.

M
XD

I admit, I think I've posted a few asspats, but usually I try to c&c too. Though most of you are way ahead of me so sometimes I don't know what to say!

[Undefeated]

I gotta say, I hate when people say "I'm not good enough to crit" or "I don't want to crit someone better than me." (I dont hate the people who say that, mind you. :needle: )

Even if someone can't draw the world's best ass, it doesn't mean they don't know what an ass should look like. Same with tits! If you cant draw tits, you've still SEEN tits, God willing, and know what looks like a reasonable representation of a tit. I can say tits all I want since we dont have a single woman participating at CA.

Granted, if you've never painted, I wouldn't give advice on how to mix watercolors and such. But on stuff like anatomy, composition, etc, etc, I dont see why anyone should be shy. If something looks wrong to you, you should say so, and the artist can take or discard your opinion. But 98% of the people here are looking for the things that YOU see wrong, whether they're more advanced than you or not shouldn't be an issue.

[Quicksilver]

Yeah, I know what you mean, and I actually think the same, it's just....I'm still a bit shy here. :thinking: I'll start a SB sometime though, 'cause I know it would make me draw again (frequently!) for starters.

[waronmars]

oh sure marko, it's not gay if you do it...

The only secret to drawing is you gotta be GAY as fuck.

When I came to work this morning coro was being mounted by marko in spectacular fashion. Coro's rather tattered sack was spewing out putrid filth like tubgirl does yesterdays indian food. This is not the first time this has happened.

Marko's shoes are ruined. He has been walking around barefoot all day.

i just don't know what to think any more

[Marko Djurdjevic]

Hahahaha


Great find, I totally had forgotten about that.

[armando]

CA needs to be MEAN! we MUST crit HARD to filter out the mankies!/m\ \w/
SCREW NICE! people who want to be PRO ARTISTS will know that by bringing out the crit artillery we are being NICE, we are HELPING THEM ON THEIR WAY TO GREATNESS!!!

We must weed out the WEAK, CRIT CRIT CRIT until they CRY! then they will either accept it and learn something get get on the RIGHT PATH or they will Defend themselfs and their piss poor excuse for art like a cornered HOBO!

This is not asspat heaven, THIS IS THE ARTISTS 1920s BOOTCAMP!!!
SO pick ya asses up, stop worrying about moral standards, stop worrying about offending someone, pull out your Snipers and headshot them some fucking CRITS! *slams fisted in palm*:needle:


:yayca: :teeth: 8)

Yes! I've been polite myself and now I regret it. Would you be a dear and crit my stuff hard.

[llothcat]

lol...i love you guys...<sniff>

[ZapRadon]

Does this mean you all want Madster back?

[waronmars]

don't talk about she-who-must-not-be-named in my goddamn thread. BAN WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE

[Mike Frank]

I gotta say, I hate when people say "I'm not good enough to crit" or "I don't want to crit someone better than me." (I dont hate the people who say that, mind you. :needle: )

Even if someone can't draw the world's best ass, it doesn't mean they don't know what an ass should look like. Same with tits! If you cant draw tits, you've still SEEN tits, God willing, and know what looks like a reasonable representation of a tit. I can say tits all I want since we dont have a single woman participating at CA....

I dunno, I gotta say that the crits I enjoy giving and recieving the most have some level of understanding involved. I'm a little insecure telling people to fix things that I feel that I don't have the knowledge to correct. I guess what I'm saying is that a critique to me is more like advice.. you can take it or leave it.. but it should have some amount of real substance to it. In real life, its a lot easier to explain what you mean really quick, whereas on the forum there is less chance a discussion will happen. (( The forum IM system will be so cool in that aspect. ))

So yeah, I dont crit as often as I ought to because I am always looking to see the big picture ideas.. if its beyond my understanding than there isnt much I can help with.. and realistically I dont really understand a whole lot at this point, just a handful of theories and some hints at the larger picture of what art is all about.

[Pixeldragoon]

"Honestly, I think I have a problem with 15-year olds"

=(

Also, war, sign me up for them crusadee thingys. Thanks!

[Ilaekae]

...puss-filled things, 15-year-olds, tits and sucking...

Elwell and Puppy Chow were right...I'm gonna like this place...

[Steinmetz]

CA needs to be MEAN! we MUST crit HARD to filter out the mankies!/m\ \w/
SCREW NICE! people who want to be PRO ARTISTS will know that by bringing out the crit artillery we are being NICE, we are HELPING THEM ON THEIR WAY TO GREATNESS!!!

We must weed out the WEAK, CRIT CRIT CRIT until they CRY! then they will either accept it and learn something get get on the RIGHT PATH or they will Defend themselfs and their piss poor excuse for art like a cornered HOBO!

This is not asspat heaven, THIS IS THE ARTISTS 1920s BOOTCAMP!!!
SO pick ya asses up, stop worrying about moral standards, stop worrying about offending someone, pull out your Snipers and headshot them some fucking CRITS! *slams fisted in palm*:needle:


:yayca: :teeth: 8)
beautifully said....now let's start the harsh critiquing in your sketchthread..

[NoSeRider]

See I told ya u should have kept Madster, but nooooooooo.
You just cried for your mama.

If you dish it out, ya gotta take it too.

I don't know. I'm not into sadism.

[waronmars]

i really don't think madster gave crits that demonstrated much understanding of art theory, as alot of people said, anyone with two eyes can see flaws in a drawing, the difference with her seemed to be that she wasn't afraid to tell peaople bluntly that she didn't like their stuff. her crits weren't deep or thoughtful, and toward the end they turned into just plain bossiness.

but please don't let this turn into a madster thread, that unpleasantness is behind us thank gawd.


edit: I saw this in FF, it totally heartened me to see a pro like chan take crits from everyone and really improve this piece alot.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58075

[Evil_Sloth]

Edit: Dw about it. Just makeing sure that you guys know I love Manu's art.
*Covers himself in tits and has a merry f*cking christmas.*
Same goes for all of you! Merry Christmas!! :)

[Bowlin]

Wow! nice thread waronmars.

[AmishCommy]

anyone who really desires to be a professional should be pretty damn used to taking all maner of crits. Ultimatly, the art director decides if you get the job. I don't think any art director wants to waste their time listening to some kid defend his over use of lensflares or the fact that that leg is screwed up becasue he was really drunk the night before and din't have enough time to finish it. welcome to the real world, no one wants to hear your excuses.

i went to a con once and stood in line for 5 hours to get a crit from Chris Warner, head dude at Dark Horse. by the time he got to me he was exhausted by all the retards defending their lack knowledge of perspective or anatomy.

as far as being afraid to crit becasue of skill level - i once got the greatest punch-in-the-face crit by a classmate when i was 14, who didn't know shit about art. as a kid you're unsure of your skills and you do the scratchy line thing and this kid totaly called me on it. this was some kid who didn't even know how to hold a pencil and he pointed out that the scratchy lines looked lie i was hesitating. we get so involvedin the work that we doo that we loose some pespective on things. anyone can have an objective eye.


oh and for the sissies that can't take a harsh crit, instead of ignoring it, ask the person who just ripped you a new one, "well, waht's working in this illustration?" think of this as a way of calling us take-no-prisiner critters out.

[JERI]

Does this mean you all want Madster back?

When did she leave?

[waronmars]

after she got booted off the mod squad for moving some pro pics or something. she might still be hanging around, i don't know for sure.

[Bowlin]

I think the way I look at it when I crit someone's work is that if their work looks good enough to be printed (or whatever the aim is for that particular type of art) and I can't immediately give some advice, I wanna give some praise to show they're going in the right direction. Not saying it just to be polite.

It's just a quick decision on wheither I'm gonna give crit here or not. Hmmmm... not really realizing it, I guess I mainly look to crit people that are really making a stretch at improving and are overlooking something that I would overlook. Trying to give them a fresh perspective from a different view.

And not to sound like I'm brown nosing, but Dsillustration gives the best crits here, in my opinion. I feel I do learn a lot from a good crit on somebody else's stuff. Hmmm... and elwell knows how to point something obviously wrong that I never see. My point is, if you wanna take a good crit to heart, you should really concentrate on feedback from the professionals. I always have a hard time trying to pinpoint where my skill level is, but I know i'm an ametuer. Getting and giving crits from me and other ametuers is kind of a hit and miss, but it's how we learn. So I think you have to take praise and crit from others on CA with caution, but take a crit from a professional sincerly.

[AmishCommy]

i'm freaking amazed at all the effort and time Dan and Tristan put in their crits. Its sad to see some punk ass kid dismiss them.

[Cthogua]

CA needs to be MEAN! we MUST crit HARD to filter out the mankies!/m\ \w/
SCREW NICE! people who want to be PRO ARTISTS will know that by bringing out the crit artillery we are being NICE, we are HELPING THEM ON THEIR WAY TO GREATNESS!!!

I'm gonna consider that to be a joke, but still...I don't think criticisms of the piece should be held back...if its wrong point it out. Bring on all the real criticism you can dredge up. However, all you're doing by being mean in your crit is serving your own ego and increasing the chance that whoever you just sent that crit to ignores it. So all that "help" you so graciously provided goes right down the drain. Then you can scream to the heavens about how stupid they are and how they're never going to make it because they didn't feel like swallowing your bile. Madster is a perfect example of that. I think she managed to relpy to every one of the pieces I posted outside of my sketchbook, and there was often some small bit of good advice. However it was served with a big bucket of hate. How does "Perhaps a better use for your hands would be manual labor" help? I often felt like she really wasn't criting but just saying outrageous things hoping someone would pick a fight. Then she spent a paragraph or so berating me for asking for "design by committee" (which I never did) and that if I couldn't think of a texture to paint I was a worthless artist...at the very same time there was a thread by her asking for people to help design a symbol to go on a rock <shakes head> I haven't posted outside my sketchbook for a while because the crit to hate ratio didn't seem worth it. I'm not sure where all this great advice was supposed to be. I was getting a little tid bit of good advice, and a whole bucket of attack, who needs that?

I'm all for crits being hard, in the sense that flaws shouldn't be glossed over, but you can keep all your assertions about my value as an artist or person.
:yayca:

[K-17]

Let me put my experience into context.

In art school, i gotta say most of my teachers are ok. And i'm not a guy who's very demanding about a teacher. As long as he tries to earn his money (being paid a fortune notwithstanding) and doesn't give me a hard time, i'll do my part. Some though, are real assholes, the type that'll give you homicidal urges most of the time you have contact with them. Add insult to injury, said assholes are normally in classes that have been pushed onto me and have nothing to do with what i signed up in that place for to begin with. Now, the fad with some art teachers seems to be "you're here because you want to", which has the serious potential of turning me into a mass murderer one day, for the sheer stupidity of it, if nothing else. My case, as many others were, wasn't choice so much as lack of options. And it wasn't for anything related to credentials either, so anyone there talking about how great that place is, can really cram it all the way up their ass. Paying a shit load of much needed money aside, the first time i went to a school, actually hoping to learn has turned out to be quite a dissapointment.

Now back to the criticism part, i'll take bad reviews here and there the same way, but the tolerance i have for harshness in this place is far greater. It's not like i'm paying anything to be here, and it's not like those who give crits are profiting any from it. We're all just trying to help and get help here. Sure, everyone can go off the edge from time to time, but i don't think it's anything we shouldn't be able to put behind us and just get along. I got enough of that resenting crap back at art school and i gotta say it's pretty tyring.

Sorry if it looks too much like i'm venting. Hope it made sense somehow.

[sve]

I don't get the situation, when someone criticizes your work and has some other goals to pursue in the same time, as to prove to someone he (she) is tough, that he (she) has some standards for him (her) to behave, like not to ass pat (I can't digest these words, who is the author? beh). Emotions, personal feelings discredit comments, I think. Not that I can do without them though. But I don't consider myself as any good, just like to see art, that's all.
Sveta

[jubilee]

well there's fluffy asspats, information, and then there's being rude.

I dont see why a crit has to be rude to be informative. Although there are people who dont see something positive in a post and consider it rude.

I'd personally like to hear what's working as well as what's not but not a lot of people have that kind of time. And if people dont find your work interesting they're probably not going to make time either.

[asoir]

well there's fluffy asspats, information, and then there's being rude.

I dont see why a crit has to be rude to be informative. Although there are people who dont see something positive in a post and consider it rude.

I'd personally like to hear what's working as well as what's not but not a lot of people have that kind of time. And if people dont find your work interesting they're probably not going to make time either.
This is why madster was contreversial, she took it too far at times and eventually got kicked off the mod team. Simple as.

[Blue]

I supported Madster, to the bitter end.

[sve]

I think she was abusing power. No way I will trust a person who does this.

Sveta

[K-17]

I got a thread of mine moved by her once but i never really thought badly of her, though once i saw the "madster mod no more" thread, i somehow figured it would upset her pretty bad. Then again, i've only been here for some 3 or 4 months so maybe it's not my place to pass judgement.

[sve]

I'm here the same 4 months. I don't think lowly of her, I don't think highly of her. Still I can't ignore facts. She was using her mod status to threaten me with a banning in private messages after our opinions differed. About art :x !!!. I just think she was not suited to do the job.
Sveta

[AmishCommy]

what is it about women? they just can't get along with each other.

well, if you ladies are gonna throw down on each other in a cat fight just make sure that there is a mud pit and bikinis involved and that i'm there to video tape it all.

[Slash]

Good lord. It's a day before christmas and the lounge is turning into a gay fest again.
Need some tits.

M


Ask, and you shall recieve.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b21/slashesc/blue_tit_mating_ii_050428_7692.jpg



WTF, madster is a CHICK?! (this never gets old.. :^^: )

[sve]

My dear, we thought about each other that we are dealing with man in this time :). I didn't answer her, btw.
Sveta

[Evil_Sloth]

Rofl, marko should use one of those birds as his avatar so where ever he goes, there will be tits.

[dfacto]

Not just tits, but FUCKING tits!

[Crane]

I'm gonna consider that to be a joke, but still...I don't think criticisms of the piece should be held back...if its wrong point it out. Bring on all the real criticism you can dredge up. However, all you're doing by being mean in your crit is serving your own ego and increasing the chance that whoever you just sent that crit to ignores it. So all that "help" you so graciously provided goes right down the drain. Then you can scream to the heavens about how stupid they are and how they're never going to make it because they didn't feel like swallowing your bile. Madster is a perfect example of that. I think she managed to relpy to every one of the pieces I posted outside of my sketchbook, and there was often some small bit of good advice. However it was served with a big bucket of hate. How does "Perhaps a better use for your hands would be manual labor" help? I often felt like she really wasn't criting but just saying outrageous things hoping someone would pick a fight. Then she spent a paragraph or so berating me for asking for "design by committee" (which I never did) and that if I couldn't think of a texture to paint I was a worthless artist...at the very same time there was a thread by her asking for people to help design a symbol to go on a rock <shakes head> I haven't posted outside my sketchbook for a while because the crit to hate ratio didn't seem worth it. I'm not sure where all this great advice was supposed to be. I was getting a little tid bit of good advice, and a whole bucket of attack, who needs that?

I'm all for crits being hard, in the sense that flaws shouldn't be glossed over, but you can keep all your assertions about my value as an artist or person.
:yayca:

I didn't say crit hard with a bucket of hate did I, nooo, I said crit hard, as in like point out everything wrong with the pic that could be improved and help the person become a better artist, the only people who will have a problem with hard crits are the its-my-style and the mankies.

I'm not saying we should crit like this: Yea, the arms a bit off, looks like its broken YOU FAT MOTHERFUCKING PISS RAT! :teeth: that would be bad, but we don't need crits like: yea, the background sucks, for no reason but i would love to hump you in the ass and impregnant you with my alien babies because your like R0XX0R51|\|G My wOrLd, or just plain asspats: FUCK ME YOU ART GOD. unless you have some kinda inside thing going on there...crits should be: Yea this is a really nice piece, nice colors and style BUT The shadow is off, since it should be facing whichever way since the light is coming from whichever way and (the all famous) work on your anatomy...something like that etc etc. :yayca: i hope someone understands this cause i sure don't.

[Cthogua]

I didn't say crit hard with a bucket of hate did I, nooo, I said crit hard, as in like point out everything wrong with the pic that could be improved and help the person become a better artist, the only people who will have a problem with hard crits are the its-my-style and the mankies.

I'm not saying we should crit like this: Yea, the arms a bit off, looks like its broken YOU FAT MOTHERFUCKING PISS RAT! :teeth: that would be bad, but we don't need crits like: yea, the background sucks, for no reason but i would love to hump you in the ass and impregnant you with my alien babies because your like R0XX0R51|\|G My wOrLd, or just plain asspats: FUCK ME YOU ART GOD. unless you have some kinda inside thing going on there...crits should be: Yea this is a really nice piece, nice colors and style BUT The shadow is off, since it should be facing whichever way since the light is coming from whichever way and (the all famous) work on your anatomy...something like that etc etc. :yayca: i hope someone understands this cause i sure don't.

I think we're saying the same thing. It was the "CA should be MEAN" thing in your first post that set me off ranting about madster. I was using "you" in a more abstract sense, as in the person being mean. I am by no means saying that we shouldn't be critical. We absolutly should, and without concern for whether it's Andrew Jones or Boob the Noob, that's the wonder of this place, but you can do so without having to resort to belittling the person you are offering advice to.

[Crane]

Aaaaa yes, i see wat ya mean now.
i guess mean isn't the right word, critical i guess would be better.
or helpfully harsh with love from russia..well..CA...dot orgy..:x

[waronmars]

Okay, it seems to me we have a spectum of crits that we must study long and hard (hehe) to find the best way to approach this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/jminis72/cspec.jpg

you probably want to stay between blue and purple. the middle is like a totally neutral thing to say. a pure flame would be red totally, a pure asspat totally light blue, and if any info is given, the crit moves up or down.

i have no idea why i made that, it seemed like a good idea.

[dfacto]

Well, that's a pretty cool pic war!

Unfortunately, the composition is terrible, the colors are shitty, you have absolutely no grasp of anatomy, your strokes are lazy and weak, and the pic makes me want to vomit all over the fucking floor! You LOSE, Good DAY sir!





Yes, I think I like that system...

[Quicksilver]

Well, that's a pretty cool pic war!

Unfortunately, the composition is terrible, the colors are shitty, you have absolutely no grasp of anatomy, your strokes are lazy and weak, and the pic makes me want to vomit all over the fucking floor! You LOSE, Good DAY sir!

Yes, I think I like that system...
Lmao!

[waronmars]

God, you guys are such morons.

[Bowlin]

I agree with you all

[K-17]

can't wait to post in the crit forums again so i can get myself a seizure

[S.C. Watson]

That's classic.

So. What's white?

~Oreg.

[fukifino]

Holy shit I'm laughing my ass off at this

Best post evAr, war!

(this post was optimized to be a useless ass pat)


Oreg, think of it this way: Start dead center, at white. If you are saying something positive, move left towards cyan, if you are saying something negative, move right towards red. If what you say is usefull, move up towards violet, and if not, down towards lime green.

So white would be of questionable value and neutral in tone.

[jubilee]

I like it!

I say we adopt this method for crits forever!

white would be uh.. completely objective somewhat useful information. if I read it correctly.:x

[S.C. Watson]

Yeah, I saw that after I posted.

[Bowlin]

. the middle is like a totally neutral thing to say.

I don't agree or disagree with the use of white. *wink*

[Number_6]

I like it!

I say we adopt this method for crits forever!

white would be uh.. completely objective somewhat useful information. if I read it correctly.:x

From now on, I'm going to try to critique according to this system!

[Bowlin]

This is the best idea ever!HAHAHAHA!

[untitleduser]

rotf

dang, I haven't laughed this hard in a long time

[glikster]

damn good idea... but I think the useless and the asspats colors should be changed to this color

[Pixeldragoon]

damn good idea... but I think the useless and the asspats colors should be changed to this color



Indeed.

For anyone lazy and wondering, the number is
COLOR="#b09d58"

[Undertow]

I know that I'm not the only one that notices the total decline in quality over on the finally finished section.. I keep looking at this massive amount of amateur work filled with asspats and all I can do is shake my head. The finally finished section used to be more of a show and tell area for work.. allot of the work is in desperate need of serious critique and refinement before it's ready for that section.

The moderators are supposed to help keep things civil and eliminate spam and other such garbage from the site or move topics to areas that are more appropriate. Mods having to move topics every frigging day is rediculous. There are allot of guys that post that aren't really putting forth any effort to improve artistically and have no serious aspirations or drive to even try to become a concept artist. I'm getting closer and closer to calling it quits over here and moving over to cgtalk as most of what I loved about this site is quickly disappearing.

When I first saw this site I was overwhelmed and very intimidated. It took me forever to even get up the balls to register here. When I thought I was good enough to start refining my ability and posting work that displayed that I had 1/2 an idea of what I was doing (In the sketchbook section), I joined up. What originally blew me away was browsing through the finally finished section and best of areas and seeing just how high the bar had been set. It's no longer intimidating for someone to post in the FF section where as in the past there would be a piece by Bengal, Sparth, Android, Marko, and aspiring pros like LungBug, SteakTron, etc. that made you wonder "Is my work up to this level? Is it safe to say that I wont be told to keep practicing and someday I might get it?"

The site is turning more and more into a lounge for fanboys and the 'twice a month artists' that are making it more difficult to find the good stuff. The sad thing is, there is really nothing we can do about it. Something that might help would be an age restriction for registration as some of the site content is definitely 18+ material.. but then again there are the exceptions to the rule where you have some mature 15-17 yr olds that know how to read the thread pre-req's and know the difference between a 15 minute high school class project, and a refined piece of work. It's almost like we need a mod to act as an art director for the finally finished section these days where there's a submission process and the moderator posts the artists submitted notes along with the piece (if it passes the mods subjective criteria).

On style, there are plenty of artists here all with unique styles, this all boils down to refinement and acurate assessment of actual ability. A trained eye can tell the difference when someone knows what they're doing, and when they failed anatomy 101. Manu produces some great pieces, I'm personally not a die hard fan of his style but damn can he lay it down. Alright, abrupt ending.. *steps down off soapbox*

-Mike V

[flatliner]

Once more, with the increasing 0 tolarnce for the amature artist, it becomes more intimidating for those who want to post, but don't in fear of being given the cold sholder and considered a 'noob'.

[llothcat]

..please...like that's gonna happen anytime soon on the internet