PC-configuration suited for painter/photoshop?

[Ardjet2174]

I want to buy a new pc or mac. I would like to know what it should have to be merely used for digital painting with Painter and PS. I am also having doubts between choosing a mac or a pc.

PC: Currently i have a Celeron 2.66GHz; 2x512mb ddr400; 256mb radeon9600 AGP8x and a 17inch LCD. I know 1gb ddr-ram memory is a minimum for drawing, but what about processors and videocards? Do they have to be top-notch or can i buy a pc with a celeron/sempron and no videocard? I also like to spend as little as possible on a new pc. A flat crt monitor is obviously cheaper then LCD/TFT, but they are getting rare. I dont mind that it's big, but is there a difference when using a LCD or CRT for digital drawing?

Mac: I just saw some information on the Mini-Mac and it seems to be a lot less powerfull then what my PC has now. I heard though that the mini-mac IS enough for digital painting. Offcourse i have to upgrade it's ddr to 1gb or more, but do i have to also include the Superdrive? Or should i buy a i-Mac G5 instead? I would like to spend as little money on a Mac as possible.

So can anyone tell me what i should buy??? Keep in mind that i want to spend as little as possible on a new pc/mac.

[NoSeRider]

If you want to get into 3D Game company, you want a PC.......game nerds vomit on Macs, usually because they're not compatible with current games and 3D Software.

If you are strictly illustration and you deal with print shops a lot, you want to buy a Mac. Print shops use Macs a great deal. Supposedly, 1 ghz of Mac is like 2 ghz of an Intel PC, supposedly....Mac users despise PC's because they got more viruses then a dog has fleas.

There are people out there, who know a hell a lot more about computers then you or I, who feel Macs are more elegant and user friendly:
http://www.paulgraham.com/mac.html

Personally, I think all computers become junk in a couple of years...look at Silicon Graphics...during the late 90's those computers were touted as the best and you paid a premium price for less then 500mhz of power. People eventually figured out you could get a retail computer at a store with the same amount of power for 1/3 the price. People felt suckered and no longer were they the next hyped up computer.

Basically, I'm just saying a computer is a tool, and a less expensive one nowadays. Just get what works. You can use Photoshop and Painter on a PC or Mac, and at this point I doubt it matters....unless you got skills of a Craig Mullins?

WHat you should really worry about is getting a Wacom.

I have a PowerMac 7600 in my closet, and I built a dual CPU AMD 2GHZ computer....my 4th PC built computer. It's cheaper to build then buy, usually.

[Flake]

Have you tried running the demos of Painter and PS on your existing setup?

You might not even need a new pc.

WHat you should really worry about is getting a Wacom.

Agreed, no point getting that shiny new box then trying to draw with a mouse. Wacom and/or a scanner should be a priority.

[Ardjet2174]

Thx for your advice NoseRider!!! I forgot to tell though that i already have a wacom graphire 4. The reason i want a new pc/mac is because i want to have one in my own room so i dont have to wait for my turn (living with 2 younger brothers is a hell). The PC i currently use PainterIX trial on is of my parents and it sits in our livingroom.

[Nils_Carstens]

if u want a fancy, stable machine get a mac but be prepared to pay more. Good thing is that mac's resell alot better since there is always some advertising company buyin em.

Pc sure is a bit more difficult to "use" but cheaper and u also have alot more freedom if u wanna ad or upgrade parts and prgramms. U just get more performance for ur money if u do it right,though in order to acces this performance u need to keep fighting with the OS ^^'.

Then again mac is converting to amd chips wich pretty much opened the road to a mac OS version for pc.

[WingManMedia]

i currently have a mac mini right now.... im running painter9 and photoshopCS and it works just fine in most respects. of course loads are slower but once you get the program up... all is well. i upgraded to a gig of ram of course. for what its worth, the mini fits my needs. i will def. be upgrading to a G5 soon however.... the mini won't last much longer im afraid.

good luck.

[Ardjet2174]

Ok i think i know now what im going to buy, but what about the display? Is a cheap CRT good enough if i dont mind the space it uses or is a more expensive LCD better?

[NoSeRider]

http://www.geeks.com/

[figure2]

Is a cheap CRT good enough if i dont mind the space it uses or is a more expensive LCD better?Personally I think you get a better value with CRT displays. If you end up getting a Mac you can buy a 2nd smaller CRT to keep many of the larger tool palettes so you can have an unobstructed view of your work and save time having to constantly show/hide the palettes. Since the Mac Mini is a very stripped-down version of a standard Mac, I don't know if it is capable of dual monitors. Check before you buy a 2nd monitor.

[penguinbox]

NoSeRider:
Thanks for the link http://www.paulgraham.com/mac.html

that really helped me deciding. By the way, I ll get a MAC.

[sciboy]

I'm sticking with my Toshiba Laptop. =P
I get better support for linux under an x86 platform than powerpc could offer at this stage, but with the PS3 i have definitely considered taking a test drive.

Now on topic, My laptop has a 2.2ghz Pentium 4-M, 512mb mb of RAM, 60gig HD [200gig external USB2], and a 32mb Geforce 4 460 Go.

So far it's been able to handle what i've thrown at it beautifully, although with no space to brag.
I am running Debian (Linux), with the applications GIMP, Inkscape, Blender and Moho.
GIMP being the most intensive since there is no work arounds for getting more detail without increasing the resource usage past where my system can handle it smoothly.
I usually work in GIMP at 1600x1200, 6 layers and 30 step undo history.

Debian in my opinion completely kicks MacOS's ass in convenience and efficiency, but there is the huge learning curve and non-standard software to put into consideration. (No Painter)
But since i couldn't afford that kind of software anyway, i'm happy working with free opensource tools which get the job done and let me drool for new features every month.
But since we are talking painter and photoshop, chances are those applications have been optimised for Macintosh.
And also there's the whole Mac to Intel move going on...
With so much going on i can't say what's better cause it could soon change. =|

Your primary concern is with memory, 512mb is the bare minimum.
Most recent CPU's will do fine, and Storage/3D is up to you.
Also remember to factor in prices for all the necessary peripherals, Monitors etc.
You'll have to do some research aswell, while a CRT may get you more bang for your buck, that bang does hurt your eyes.
Always keep ergonomics in mind.

Good luck on your bargain hunting.

[Art_Addict]

question one : Will you be buying PS and Painter to install on a mac?
Keep aware that,... software is still not as wide distributed for that platform.

Question 2 : What will be the primary use of the computer? What do you need it for?
If it's mainly graphic programs as Ps and painter you just need enough ram. A fast and big HD. and that's basically it. Check out the platforms some of the pro's are running. You'll see that they're not on the fastest, most expensive computers. Invest in enough ram and you'll be safe for painting a couple years.

Personally, I still like CRT monitors. Just because of the light they produce. I would set up 2 monitors if I can choose. One big crt (22inch ) for work. and a smaller lcd for other things ( desktop view, internet,.. )

[Dan.v.D.]

i´d buy a mac







if i had 5 state of the art pcs already

[figure2]

question one : Will you be buying PS and Painter to install on a mac?
Keep aware that,... software is still not as wide distributed for that platform.Where are you getting your information? I'm on a Mac and am running both Photoshop & Painter.

[NoSeRider]

He's talking about downloading freeware.

[evildisco]

question one : Will you be buying PS and Painter to install on a mac?
Keep aware that,... software is still not as wide distributed for that platform.


Hush caveman.

[figure2]

He's talking about downloading freeware.Ahhh... Theft of intellectual property. Now I understand.

[Ilaekae]

I wasn't going to reply here, but this 10-year-old bullshit over PCs vs Macs pisses me off. FUCKIN' MACS ARE PCS, YOU ASSHOLES!

If you want to do REAL work for any output--prepress or otherwise--get a Mac. Period.

The software these little bastards are telling you may not work on a Mac are fuckin' lying through theeir teeth. Nearly ALL OF THE SOFTWARE MOST OF YOU NOW USE PROFESSIONALLY was ORIGINALLY created for the Mac! Don't take advice from 10-year-olds! Any G5 (I-Mac or tower, even at the lowest end) would be perfectly acceptable as a "high-end" pro machine. It may cost a bit more, BUT the fuckin' thing will work without you having to kiss Bill Gates' hairy ass, and spend half your life eliminating conflicts between apps.

If you like to play a lot of kid games, cute freebees and shit like that in addition to your work, get a non-Mac.

The Microsoft OS isn't as stable (and any 10-year-old who wants to argue that point is going to be in deep shit, because I'm going to make you prove your stand...and you won't be able to) as a Mac's, and the they aren't quite as powerful as the very top Macs, but any of them will be more than enough to do anything you want to do.

As of 6:35 pm yesterday, I have a G5 Quad, a machine that hasn't even been advertised yet, with 2 dual water-cooled chips, 500G drives, and two 20" cinema monitors. It just happens to be the single most powerful and fastest off the shelf PC in the world right now. You don't need that. I do. I buy machines and work them to death over 10-12 years time, so I go for the top of the line. That way, I'm sure I don't fall too far behind before I go for a new one. Any of you arrogant little anti-Mac freaks wants to argue over anything in THIS last paragraph, bring it on. Any one with a brain in their heads will know immediately you're just proving how stupid you are.



Sorry this sounds like a rant, but when somebody asks for advice, at least try to be fair when you give it and know what you're talking about. Most of the people who posted above so far gave excellent advice and have jumped up the scale of respect I have for them, but some of you...damn...get a life...or grow up...

[NoSeRider]

You should speak to people that use 3D Studio Max.......they say exactly what you say about computers, only vice versa.

[evildisco]

I wasn't going to reply here, but this 10-year-old bullshit over PCs vs Macs pisses me off. FUCKIN' MACS ARE PCS, YOU ASSHOLES!

If you want to do REAL work for any output--prepress or otherwise--get a Mac. Period.

The software these little bastards are telling you may not work on a Mac are fuckin' lying through theeir teeth. Nearly ALL OF THE SOFTWARE MOST OF YOU NOW USE PROFESSIONALLY was ORIGINALLY created for the Mac! Don't take advice from 10-year-olds! Any G5 (I-Mac or tower, even at the lowest end) would be perfectly acceptable as a "high-end" pro machine. It may cost a bit more, BUT the fuckin' thing will work without you having to kiss Bill Gates' hairy ass, and spend half your life eliminating conflicts between apps.

If you like to play a lot of kid games, cute freebees and shit like that in addition to your work, get a non-Mac.

The Microsoft OS isn't as stable (and any 10-year-old who wants to argue that point is going to be in deep shit, because I'm going to make you prove your stand...and you won't be able to) as a Mac's, and the they aren't quite as powerful as the very top Macs, but any of them will be more than enough to do anything you want to do.

As of 6:35 pm yesterday, I have a G5 Quad, a machine that hasn't even been advertised yet, with 2 dual water-cooled chips, 500G drives, and two 20" cinema monitors. It just happens to be the single most powerful and fastest off the shelf PC in the world right now. You don't need that. I do. I buy machines and work them to death over 10-12 years time, so I go for the top of the line. That way, I'm sure I don't fall too far behind before I go for a new one. Any of you arrogant little anti-Mac freaks wants to argue over anything in THIS last paragraph, bring it on. Any one with a brain in their heads will know immediately you're just proving how stupid you are.



Sorry this sounds like a rant, but when somebody asks for advice, at least try to be fair when you give it and know what you're talking about. Most of the people who posted above so far gave excellent advice and have jumped up the scale of respect I have for them, but some of you...damn...get a life...or grow up...

Quote for truth and balance. The "pro" machine is Mac, not PC, period.
The quality of the product and the capabilities are tenfold compared to any dumpy PC.

[Poohgee]

Id say .. maybe wait as Apple is next year end of next year bringing out Intel based Macs ... All the big photoediting software is available on Mac ... & OSX is safer & more stable compared to Windows.

But a tablet could cost as much as a computer.

@Ilaekae : Cool system ... but the statemenmts by Apple that xyz - Apple is the fastest ever are of course not really true.
Take two big AMD dual-cores & they will propably be as fast or faster.

I think better wait for investing in a new computer if you are not wanting to invest into a really big multiprocessor system.

Lots of RAM & any current normal processor should do I would imagine.

@NoSeRider : Are you comparing mid 90's Silicon Graphics machines with current PC's ... & saying that a 10 year old SG workstation is just as fast as a current top Intel or AMD ?

I dont know whypeople are so keen on suggesting fast harddisks.
Once it is loaded into RAM the harddisks shouldntmatter - & once the swap is severly used & RAM is full every hard disk out there is gonna be SLOW compared to RAM.

Id say geta CRT ... Flat screens are nice (I love my 19" screen) .. but if you are wanting to save money .. why bother with a flat screen ?

Except that they are newer technology doesnt mean that CRT are worse .. in many cases flat screens are probably still not as good as CRT's.

Id say stick with what you have got & wait.

If you are really desperate Id say get a really cheap PC & upgrade it with enough RAM & maybe a decent graphics card.

You havent told us how much you actually want to spend.

Were you not on a tight buget .. Id suggest a customized multiprocesor multicore AMD .. well lots multi cant hurt :D :) for the future .

Just IMO.

@sciboy : As much as I love Linux (especially Vector :)) - unfortunatly there are as youll know yourself a million & 1 things still to sort out for Linux to become mainstream pro-usable.
But GIMP is indeed a fine program .

Pick what whatever furfills your needs for any I guess.

:)

[MoP]

Quote for truth and balance. The "pro" machine is Mac, not PC, period.
The quality of the product and the capabilities are tenfold compared to any dumpy PC.

Wait, what? So all those poor concept artists and illustrators painting in Photoshop and Painter on their IBM-compatible PCs are being held back horribly? I bet they'd be working ten times as effectively on the Mac, suuuuure... :rolleyes:

Ardjet2174: You might also want to consider whether you'll be doing anything other than just digital painting... if you ever plan on playing computer games, or video editing, things like that, you should also plan accordingly. But RAM is of high importance, and a good processor too... video card doesn't matter too much if you're not doing 3D work or playing games, but you'll also want good hard drives - 2 separate drives, both with fast spin speeds would be good, that way you can set one as the storage drive, and the other as the scratch disk for virtual memory, and Photoshop especially will run faster and more stably like this.

[Dan.v.D.]

i like to play kids games. u know that stuff that makes the whole ca.org and massive black universe go round!

[darth massacre]

It's just another tool. It doesn't really matter much at all. Comes down to preference and cost and of course, the types of tools you want to use.

Macs would have problems with 3D software only because those software are developed for other OS kernels that utilize the hardware more effectively. PCs have problems running some Mac only softwares for the same reason. I think its something only programmers and software engineers can answer completely....that's if we actually understand anything being explained.

I'm as tired as Ilaekae about this Mac-PC bullshit and I'm only 33 years younger than he is. :rolleyes:

At the end of the day it is the artist and how he or she uses the tools on hand, and creatively work around its shortcomings, to create artwork.




Edit: Just to confirm what Ilaekae said. I saw pictures of his "ancient" machine. True enough, its ancient. Its the exact same system (maybe more powerful) I first used when I started doing digital artwork as an art student and that was back in 1996. It also happens to be a Mac. He really works his machines to the deathbed :P

[evildisco]

Wait, what? So all those poor concept artists and illustrators painting in Photoshop and Painter on their IBM-compatible PCs are being held back horribly? I bet they'd be working ten times as effectively on the Mac, suuuuure... :rolleyes:


Keep fuelling it, MoP.

[Art_Addict]

Lol , you guys, gimme a break will ya? :).....

I was only trying to offer some help to the guy. And I wasn't talking about PS or painter. I was reffering to software in general. Where I come from at least, it is still more expensive AND not available in every shop as progs for windows.

Jeez... maybe I should shut up....

Anyway, Ardjet2174 happy comp hunting :)

[blankslatejoe]

Quote for truth and balance. The "pro" machine is Mac, not PC, period.
The quality of the product and the capabilities are tenfold compared to any dumpy PC.


I'm not positive, but I believe most of the Massiveblack guys are Boxx enthusiasts. Boxx, of course, is PC (and by PC, I mean non-mac). Then again, I dunno if I would call them pros, I mean, they are working on dumpy PCs and all. ;)

Anyway, Mac versus PC is an old battle with diehards on either side. My view; macs are great machines, but if you ever plan on working in games or, heck, in 3d in general, then buying a mac is like shooting yourself in the foot: no real reasoning to do it.. unless you've just got a diehard love for the OS.

[Poohgee]

evildisco : "The quality of the product and the capabilities are tenfold compared to any dumpy PC."

-> Flamewar-danger !!! :D

Yes Mac hardware is better design.
10 times better .. do they last 10 times longer ... if then okay.

Whatever you mean by capabilities ... absolutly wrong .. so your Mac 10 times better & more powerful ... sorry but you must realize that you severly aggetate geeks like me with such a statement ....

Macs & OSX are better than the usual Intel PC box with Windows but Mac/OSX are not superior to any PC out there.

But Id recommend a Mac ... they are not 10 better .. but they are better designed & OSX is superior to WindowsXP (& OSX BTW is not the most advanced greatest OS out there - which Apple claim) .

Post Scribbles : Scarry surprise for me ... conceptart.org is actually running on Windows Server 2003 ... according to Netcraft

[NoSeRider]

It's a box with a couple of circuit boards in it.......what are you guys fornicating with it or something?

Well, maybe you are.......people always seem to be in love with their computers.

[Poohgee]

The Mac-Mini - stylish sexy slick easy to use product ... -> look at e.g. lovehoney.co.uk & that will very much fit(!!!:)) to certain products .

A geek like me without a girlfriend can still get all emotional at least about computers & claim he knows something :D

[MoP]

evildisco: Dunno what you're talking about there, but to suggest that a Mac's "capabilities" are "tenfold" to an IBM PC is simply ridiculous. If I didn't think you were just fuelling things yourself, I'd ask you to try to prove otherwise.

Macs have their place, they are fantastic machines for design, illustration, desktop publishing and general graphics work, but when it comes to versatility, they are not market-leaders.

Basically if the topic starter here wants to get a machine for PS and Painter, then a Mac sounds like a perfect choice, and I can't argue with that. However, if he ever wants to expand beyond most 2d and design fields, he might find himself limited by the software availability.

[evildisco]

Unfortunately I get a little carried away on the Mac/PC discussion so I spew a lot of bullshit. But usually for the things you just mentioned, mac is right on the money.

/Zealot OFF

[NoSeRider]

@NoSeRider : Are you comparing mid 90's Silicon Graphics machines with current PC's ... & saying that a 10 year old SG workstation is just as fast as a current top Intel or AMD ?

No, I'm just saying the computer you buy today, will be a piece of crap tomorrow. So, what's the point?

I spent $ 2,000 on that PowerMac 7600..........yes, I'm a little bitter.

[Ilaekae]

I AM NOT A MAC FREAK!


...even though I usually play safe and wear a rubber AND Depends when I'm really getting into Illustrator on it...

[sciboy]

Okey, did another test run, GIMP at A3 (300dpi/3508x4960] under 512mb of RAM starts to slow down after a few layers.

[Blue]

Windows sucks.
Macs suck.

My toaster owns you all. I run painter 10 (thats right, TEN!! bitches) on that machine with perfect 80inch HD clarity. I have 30gigs of ram and a 1.2 terahertz processor with 900 gigs of memory, and it still makes the best toast you'll ever taste.

[Ardjet2174]

hehehe...I didnt want to start a MAC vs PC war!!!! i just wanted to know what kind of pc or mac i should buy to use Painter/PS on. Im not going to use it as a gaming machine, because I rather play console games then pc-games. I know now that RAM and processors are important factors so i think ill buy either a Mac-mini with 1g ram (maybe later on more g) and a CRT or ill buy a PC with pentium 4 3GHz, 1g ram 80gHD and a CRT. I want to spend no more then 800 euros on a new complete system (which includes the pc/mac, keyboard mouse, I already have a good wacom though, a CRT and software) BTW, should i get a legal full version Painter IX? because a friend of mine patched my trial version so i can try it forever and im pretty fine with it now.

[Poohgee]

@Lord Blue : Please stooop it .. your turnin me on :D .... drool :D .. <sigh> .. if only ... I could Play withsuch a MACHINE ...

My vibrating donkey beats your toaster tenfold times 5.3 .... hah .. :D

Ehhh ... is CA.org allowed to promote the use of "free" software ... which just accidentally appeared from nowwhere ... <cough .. where did that CS2 suite come from ?> ... :D ... well ... you can try it for a few more months or years until you can start evaluating the next Painter version ... :)

[sciboy]

I'll be supporting free opensource software over pirating anyday. =)
And on that note:
GIMP (http://www.gimp.org) - Free Image Manipulation Software.
Inkscape (http://www.inkscape.org) - Free Scalable Vector Graphics editor.
Blender (http://www.blender.org) - Free 3D Graphics Creation Solution.