Gnome,(procedure critics please)

[Shamagim]

I.ve been concerned about my painting procedure in PS latelly, also i have almost no noledge about the right configurations and brushes, as well as extra modes...because of that, sometimes my drawings get a plastic or low-res look.

So to finally ask about procedures, and hoping this is the right thread to do so, cause this in not a tutorial , i can act as a pretencious bastard sometimes, or hide my real intentions to get other responses, but this is far from that case, i really just want to tune up my procedures to the higuest efficiency, not only to get the desired result, also to get them faster or with a better color pallete.

Here it is, please, any glich, or anything else that can be changed to get a better result, please tell me :)

1- Sketch/line work:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/shamagim/gnomesA.jpg

2-I conver the figure in a darker tone, deleting the line work in an 80%:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/shamagim/gnomesb.jpg

3-I increase the contrast and start laying out the darker colors:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/shamagim/gnomesc.jpg

4-Lighter colors and some details:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/shamagim/gnomesd.jpg

5-Again, some more light, some more detail
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/shamagim/gnomesE.jpg

6- Done, but somehow the contrast didnt work at the end.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/shamagim/gnomesf.jpg

7- Played with the levels, reduce some saturation after that...and "done"
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/shamagim/gnomesg.jpg


All done with a 50% opacity hard round, and a custom brush for fabric texture, the contrast problem bothers the hell out off me, at the end, i always have to increase the contrast or play with the levels, and some little details i add get lost, otr some really smoth lighting or speculars get to bright and violent.

Please help me if you can, i really really need to tune up my procedures.

[Poohgee]

A cute wi gnome :)

Looks good Shamagim :)

I fail to understand the second step .
Why dont you paint on top of the sketch with the basic colours ?

And having a grey gnome will of course make the colours you put on more muddy I guess & greyish & they then need contrast work etc at the end .


Just my never-ending opinion :)

BTW : Gnome with robotic arm ?
Cool :)

[madster]

If your linework was cleaner, you could simply have it on it's own layer (fully adjustable for opacity and blending mode), and then do simple bucket fills with the magic wand selecting the areas to fill.
Shading and highlights can then be done on separate layers,so that all effects can be easily changed.

You need to work on clearly establishing your light source(s), though. Right now, his left boot is reflecting a light source that should, by all intents and purposes, be hidden by the outstretched arm...

Here's (http://www.melissaclifton.com/tutorial-lineart.html) a pretty good basic coloring tutorial. Maybe it will help you refine your process.

~M

[Silly]

You didn't mention any layers. Currently I have the lineart on a layer set to Multiply, and do the colors on a layer (or several) below that. When I draw more cartoony, I use a method much like in the tutorial posted by Madster.

Usually I also have to increase the contrast. I see it as a side effect of dark tones being harder to distinguish on a computer screen (usually) so it's easier to work on a slightly less contrasted version and then crank it up (I usually have an auto contrast adjustment layer for that, which I hide while working on the image). Why does it bother you to change the contrast afterwards?

[Shamagim]

Madster, you have help me a lot and i really like your honesty, so i hope i dont come out compleatly ungratefull:

First, im sorry i forgot to elavorate the problem and thanks for your attention.

1- Coudnt care less about line work, if i were more advanced i would go straight to shape ( actually im working on drawing with shapes this week, so i can leave line work behind)

2- Regarding your question Pooohge, i deleted most of the line work (80%) and i paint it darker over the shape to separate it a little from the backround, start painting over a darker color trying to get a global shade ( not sure if is the right thing to do), also to be able to see the almost invisible line work.

3- I have almost no PC power, so separating things by layers is out of the question for me, either way i used to do that, and i found it compleatly unefficient, time consuming and it doesnt give good results, also it feels compleatly unnatural and is intended for digital "mouse" painting ( also used for graffic and web designers)

4- I should have mention this before, but im working in one layer only, to emulate natural work as much as i can, and to be able to work in higher resolutions and sizes without getting any machine problems. (really anoying ones)


Im sorry i placed the shoes speculars in the wrong place, i was hasty and i wanted to show this quickly, ill try to not make that mystake again..


Again, im sorry for coming out this ungratefull, but i think you compleatly missundestanded my aim, mostly becuase i failed to elavorate the problem, i hope is more clear now :(, thus i used the procedure stated my master......and sorry if i come out stuck up or arrogant, but i used to work in that procedure, and i really dont like it :(

I can´t be sorry enought...actually i had to think my response quite a while. i hope i wont get flamed for this.

EDIT*: Ah yes, and Silly, i dont like to change contrast because it flatens out to many details, and mostly becuase is not what i made, and i think is help enought to be able to undo actions and to save on materials.

[Poohgee]

So you are trying to work as similiar as possible in the digital medium as in the "analogue" - real paint medium - or did I misunderstand you ?

If then of course - ovious question & answer : The way you would work on a real canvas is ? ... .

"separate it a little from the background"
:-> that sounds like a step to me which seems unneccessary if you use the right background colour .

"painting over a darker color trying to get a global shade"
-> Does that mean that you assume for every piece to have enough darkness in it to make it neccessary to have a paint-layer which then I guess is a dark undercoat for the whole painting ?

"to be able to see the almost invisible line work"
:-> that again sounds like a step that you do because you are reacting to a problem instead of not letting this problem come to light :) in the first place & so this does not seem as if it is neccessary for the painting .

Just as always JUST IMO :)

I hope I dont seem arrogant because some or many might just think that because I have so much "advice" & opinion.

[madster]

No harm, no foul, Shamagim! With members from all over the world, clarity can be confusing sometimes...no problem.
There really is no "right" or "wrong" proceedure. It is a combination of what is easiest for you to do, and what gives you the effect you desire.

Some ways may be faster, but not provide the look you are seeking. Some ways may take longer, but can be done faster. There is always more than one way to do anything, especially digital art.

Personally, I find it self-limiting to only use one layer. That is one of the major benefits of Digital over Traditional, that you DO have the freedom provided by layers. That is like not buying oil paints in a tube, because you prefrer to grind and mix your own...Sure, you can, but why make things harder on yourself? No one will like a work less just because you used layers...And for working in higher resolutions, you actually make it easier on your PC's system resources by working in layers, then combining all the elements after you've tweaked them to your satisfaction.

But again, to each his own. You certainly can't be faulted (or flamed) for having your own way of doing things.
When you say "almost no PC power," what are your system specs? Do you run anything else while you are painting? How much "cache" space do you have set aside while you work (I am assuming you are using Photoshop)? There may be some adjustments you can make to help also.

So the 3 things you want to improve on your process is Efficiency, Speed, and Colors, correct?
Well, the question then arises, what do you NOT like about your current method? What do you feel is an area that is not efficient in your process? What do you feel takes you the longest to achieve? What do you want to improve with your color palette? Values? Colors? Blending? As you see, we're all willing to make guesses on how to help, but without knowing more of what you are trying to improve, we're just guessing in the dark...

~M

[Shamagim]

Yea i got it, besides asking for critics in a pic is in not way the same as asking for procedure, i think i know what to do after seeing Arctis tutorial, the problem was brightness and contrast mostly, in that tutorial he makes an amazing point ( is in the finished seccion), im testing it with a simple portrait picture right now.

As for the PC, lets just say that in a 1500x1500 image with 4 layers, it collapses, with no extra programs running, is an 1998 compac presario :(....but i can honestly say that i have much more fun using just one layer, like i would with a canvas...

But Basically i find it smooth and fast for me, the thing i dont like is the final result, the fact i have to push the levels further makes a lot of details and colors to disappear, also they tend to end up looking kinda plastic, like you´ve seen in the golems the other time, some times they even look like they were made from paste, so i tryed to fix the problem by coating the figure first to make them appear in slighty different hues, tones and saturations ( then all comes around by using a 50% opasity brush, and lots of drop clicks using alt+) So im also concerned with color theory wheni get to this point, is better to keep them in the mood?, better if i change the hues to the complete opposite?, etc..

So basically a chain of reactions around avoiding the use of level and contrast buttons ( in exagerated manner, cause their use is ok in most cases), and the fact that i still dont go to art school makes me wonder if im doing ok.


So summing up, ill try at least to keep one extra layer to keep the backround separated of cource ( though that sometimes slows me down, it saves me if i make a mistake), ill start by separate things by the highest contast like in arctis tutorial, and then ill show it to you :)

Thanks :)


EDIT*: dont you think that the critique center as been slow latelly, i cant believe this topic hasnt sunk yet, and the lounge activity is rising dangerously :/

[madster]

Shamagim, technique is as important as the final result, particularly here, where we are all continuously questioning and learning.

Yeah, it's been a bit quiet in here, but sometimes that is FAR preferable to the "quickie doodles" that show no real effort or intent...I'm glad, as I'm in the middle of Christmas Projects and paintings. I don't feel bad if I'm absent for a day or so.

Do you print your works? If so, do you paint in CMYK, or do you convert from RGB? That, too, will affect your colors.

~M

[Poohgee]

Shamagim :
" EDIT*: dont you think that the critique center as been slow latelly, i cant believe this topic hasnt sunk yet, and the lounge activity is rising dangerously :/ "

Indeed I agree there - people *cough*ehh like me* spend to much time entertaining themselves in the lounge with silly discussions & pictures of animals :)

:)

[Joeslucher]

It looks like you're painting with high opacity and picking colors from swatches. Work with low opacity and maybe sample colors from an illustration you like. You'll probably find more variation. Also your highlights and darks look like they're created by picking shades and tints of the local color. That's more likely the reason for people saying the characters look plastic. Try to put colors in your shadows. The light appears to be white which usually creates cool highlights and warm shadows (I think). When I was training for traditional painting, I was sort of doing a grisaille and my teacher asked what I was doing. I said I planned on adding color later. He said something to the effect of, "why would you waste your time doing that? You have the colors right in front of you. You know what they are. So why not try to paint those colors as accurately as possible immediately." This isn't a painting from life but I think you should cut out the ground color step of your process. It seems unnecessary.

[Silly]

Well OK, I still don't use layers that much (or effectively) as others, either. You know you can create a layer anytime, and merge or delete it when you are done with it, right? There are still uses for layers without having hundreds at once...

For your contrast problem, I think what I would do different is put in even stronger shadows between your step 3 and 4. It seems from your description that you put several layers of light, but only one of shadow, and a rather muted one. So while your highlights get light enough, your shadows remain not very dark, leaving overall low contrast.

[Shamagim]

Joelusher:

*Picking color from swatches....never :), ill be damn if i do that, i select each color in the color picker, and after laying the basics, with a lot of drop tool and using the 50 % opacity to create middle tones between them.

*Hight opacity, i think 80% is recomended, i already im working with a way low opacity, 50%, the problem was way bigger when i used 30% or 20%.

*Highlights, BINGO, i think you got that right, i do that and is wrong, and one of the main problem that causes low contrast and wrong and boring to look moods

*Lights/Shadow, i ussuall try to keeep my lights yellow(ciam if reflected in day light, blue if reflected in night light, orange in sunsets, etc)but you are right about the shadows, they look even warmer than the light ( never use white to create a shadow, unless im creating speculars, and thats about one dot); So i wont even tell you waht i used for shadows, or you will kill me, thing is, i wont use it again, (unless the enviroment calls for it)

*I guess most people think the ground color step is unessesary, already repladed it for a much more effective one ( cthats laying the pure color/pure balck to create that contrast from the beggining by painting over black, see Arctis tutorial in the finished se ccion )

Silly: i know layers, dont worry, i used them a lot when i was a begginier and i loved them, also know how to use masks, and most of the ussefull functions of placing layers, my old lisslustrations and graffic works had about 13 layers minimun, the truth is, the number of layers was reduced dramaticly once i figured that i could fix any error in the canvas, or change most colors by just using the brushed without the fear of deleting a seccion i worked a lot in, just becuase the Wacom tablet and is incredible capability to imitate other mediums. So do i use layers?, yes, but just like i would use a light table, or to place a reference pic of a character that haves to look the same again...in other words, the same way you would place another sheet of paper in a canvas, or a picture, or overlaying it with a light table, etc.......but i just paint in one, otherwise the entire prosses feels unnnatural, and for me, it haves bad results and takes way longer.

About the contrast problem, i think i got it, ill show a pic i made last might in a few hours without it, just making the pic to be black/color at the beggining, and painintg from there, that way i also plann the lighting in a more efficient way :)



Tahkn you all for your support, i think i have some points fixed already .