Environment of the Week Discussion Thread

[Form]

This thread is now for all discussion and suggestion pertaining to E.O.W.

Please please keep all discussion in here, not in the weekly threads. Thanks

[fionkell]

All I can say is that it sounds hot. I'm definitely interested, it should get me practicing more.

[croovman]

very good idea, you have my interest.

[AndrewLey]

Great idea - Count me in

[Form]

Also guys, this is the thread to start discussing any rules, or wishes you might have for the activity!! Discuss away!

[Fozzybar]

official tip: watch the human rule! ;)

[Oblio]

neat - then we can use then in the Conceptart.Adventure project - :D :D
when i free my ass... you can bet on me too.
It will take .. a month though.

[Form]

hahah! all environments MUST NOT LOOK LIKE A HUMAN, hehe :P

[Form]

AHA! indeed oblio - - you read my mind! Hope to see you participating down the line!

[Fozzybar]

neat - then we can use then in the Conceptart.Adventure projectthis is a great idea...though there must be an official disclaimer, for using the artwork :)

[[DAN]]

did you said environments ?!? Yumm yumm. You can count on me too.

[Sinix]

I'm looking forward to it, I also think there will be alot to learn from it.

[wassermelone]

This should be good for me. Im not too great at environs, so some friendly competition should be good practice.

...
Uh how about a character design of the week thing too? Might be a bit much but it would be nice.

[possessed]

environment of the week would be really good for my practice in backgrounds so sign me up.
For the rules there could be something like:
- Do not show any animals or inhabitants of the enviroment unless it is required for the topic
- Original architecture only
- the setting of the environment

Maybe a small description should be added when a certain topic is chosen.
Example:
Topic - Mysterious island
Description - This island, with it's high peaks, is always surrounded by mist. Mystical smoke signs erupt from these peaks.
Something like that.
my €2 cents

[Form]

possessed: i think the rule you suggest about not showing animals etc, should be more correctly expressed. Something like "the environment, and its elements of design, must be the focus of the illustration. Works with a focus on characters or creatures within the environment will not be accepted". That way if someone is painting a 'gigantic dragon lair' or some such, they can put creatures in.

Also, on some occasions, figures (or at least the indication thereof) will be integral in establishing a sense of scale for the scene.

Basically logic rules here - if the environment is poorly designed/boring and the characters are in dramatic poses - not accepted. Focus on the environment design. Criteria for a good environment - - i will try to get some professionals to summarise a list of points for voters to think about.

[RES]

I'll get my asked kicked but I'd give it a go now and again.
I also agree with form that the suggestion of figures in a piece is often used to show Scale.

[Red_Rook]

excellent! *cackles and rubs his hands together*

[Form]

looks like the support for this is overwhelming. ive spoken to a lot of people, and there should be some interesting surprises for you all in this activity, wink wink!!!

I think i will start this tonight, if any of you have topic suggestions for round one, nows the time!!

[S.C. Watson]

hahah! all environments MUST NOT LOOK LIKE A HUMAN, hehe :P
http://www.geraldbrimacombe.com/photogallery/photo23016/South%20Dakota%20-%20Mt.%20Rushmore%20Dawn%203.jpg
Okay, y'all can hit me now... :bashful:

I'm in.

[Fozzybar]

Oregano...you should be a lawyer or something like that :)

[Bishop Six]

Ho yeah, I'm definitely interested. I love environment designs and I would love to get more practice with 'em.

[possessed]

topic suggestions:
- underground mining facility
- floating island
- galactic prison
- cityscape
- enchanted forest
- haunted swamp

[S.C. Watson]

I just had a thought - and I don't mean to steal any of Forms thunder here, becuase that's not it, but what if we started rotating the topics? For example;

Week #1 COW
Week #2 EOW
Week #3 ChOW (assuming there's any real interest)

My thought is that this will keep interest and allow for some versatility in subjects, plus be fun but this way none of the topics can really eclipse the other. :dur:

Just a thought.

PS - thanks Fozz :perv: :tihi:

[brokk]

Coooool!
I was actually thinking if there were going to be other weekly community activities.

I would preffer a weekly charachter activity, but enviornments sound really interesting as well. Characters and enviornments are the two things I would like to participate in the most, as well as creature, so I'm in.

[Amerasu]

I'm definitely interested in participating

[tuchten]

im in.

rules are being made already i see. but before we exclude anyone lets talk about what the rules will accomplish. why are they there? whats the artistic purpose?

why not just have guidlines and then let the voters have there will. If people think that focus has been pulled from the enviro to the creatures in it. Let them say so by voting differently. Also lets think of what Oregano said in the COW tread, lets use the winners like guidlines, and let the people decide who winns. i mean, you can have a picture with a char standing right in the middle and enviro behind,. It can still be accepted. That kind of factors often relate to eachother. It can accually feel more empty from people if you put in ONE than if you put in zero.

also, i feel the suggested topics are a little well, boring. I would like to see us mix in colour demands and perspective views. (just putting up words for people to follow, they can choose to follow some of them and discard others.)

blackandwhite castle
red city dawn
future japan from above
fisheye alley
blue traffic city
ancient china midnight
rain city neon
wallstreet explosion
harbor panorama
sunlight temple from below


what you think?

[Form]

THE FIRST TOPIC IS UP!! (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?p=618543#post618543)

Ok guys, all of your suggetsions are being taken into account

oregano - running it on a rotational basis will unfortunately break the flow.. if someone is only interested in creatures, they have to wait for 3 weeks between topics... it loses the immediacy cow etc have at the moment, i think.

tuchten: it is stated in the rules that characters and creatures are allowed in the concept. HOWEVER.. if the piece is seen to be relying on the chara/creature to be succesful, it will not be allowed. If the environment has no discernable unique design features as pertaining to the topic, it will not be allowed.

I will be fairly logical and lenient on this, but it will be enforced to maintain a good level of quality.

hopefully with the simultaneous running of the cow, eow and possible how, we shouldnt have too many dramas anyway.

And now its time to paint!!

[brokk]

tuchten: No, actually I like possessed's ideas better, because they are more open to interpretation. "Haunted Swamp" is specific in topic but you are free to represent it any way you choose, from any angle, use whatever perspective you like, colors, mood, etc.

future japan from above, or sunlight temple from below are already imposing limitations regarding the representation. Of course if this was a job that would be totally normal I guess, but I think its more fun just to set the theme and let everyone do it how they like.

EDIT: if it was future japan, or sunlight temple, thats a different story. : P

[Form]

broken and tuchten both have a valid point of view. I will try to choose topics which are open to interpretation, but also give direction. For instance the first topic, "The Titan Fortress", is specific in that it must be a fortress, and somehow convey 'titan', but it can be any time of day, any colour scheme, any time period etc.

For another i might get specific with colour, but loosen up on other specifics, ie "Crimson Outpost".

[JeffZNY]

i suck at enviros and quite frankly they scare the shit out of me. hopefully i can learn a lot from E.O.W. and maybe one day i'll drag myself kicking and screaming into the ring.

[Form]

or i would be happy to oblige :P

[tuchten]

"tuchten: sketches and wips will not be accepted because it allows for members to give up on a piece if they dont finish it, and just post that."

question remains, why is that bad?

"A sketch is a preparation piece for a finished work. We only want finished artwork here. It enables us to be fluid with our criticism,"

why? what has that got to do with it?

"it enables the judging to be fair,"

again, why?

"and it ensures a level of quality in the thread."

my point it to discuss the definitions of what quality is. you seems more intrested in accepting a norm for whats good and bad. please adress my qustions.
quality is a quick sketch in my eyes. its ruff and it can show you thing that most finished pieces cant,. take a look at rasseltassels enviros if you want an example.
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54031

please! cant we atleast try? lets keep an open eye.
lets also encurage quick drawing´

[Lake]

OH girl this is gonna be sweet!

I'll thoroughly enjoy having my ass handed to me by Rook on a regular basis.

[Form]

tuchten:

i had a look at rasseltassels enviro stuff, and its quite nice. But it works because it is in his sketchbook. If he posted it in the finished section it would not be accepted.

If sketches were allowed to be submitted, it would encourage those who cant be bothered finishing a piece to just submit a sketch and be done with it.

We want to promote finishing ability - the ability to think out, and flesh out a concept.

If you had a mixture of sketches and so on, it would lead to disputes over judging. Is an awesome sketch better than an average full colour illustration? We will all have our own opinions on this.

A clear brief is a succesful brief. By making the finished quality a criteria it allows us to judge every competitor on an equal level. Introducing sketch submissions will only generate a situation that is very hard to judge fairly, and will just lead to arguments.

Also, when someone tries to do a full compliment of C&C, it is a lot harder to have to crit a whole lot of works at different levels of completion.

as for how we are determining quality - we determine it by the adherance to a professional brief. If an AD asks you for finished illustrations you simply cant hand in sketches and claim that they are just as valuable. There is a time and place for sketches and wips. On CA, thats the sketches and wips forum, or the daily sketch group, or your sketchbook.

This activity is for finished, developed, ready-to-submit illustrations that are hopefully of the quality able to be put into book form down the track.

I hope you can see the reasoning behind this decision.

[Form]

to clarify someone elses question: any medium is allowed, traditional, digital, B+W, or colour.

[S.C. Watson]

quality is a quick sketch in my eyes. its ruff and it can show you thing that most finished pieces cant,. take a look at rasseltassels enviros if you want an example.
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54031

please! cant we atleast try? lets keep an open eye.
lets also encurage quick drawing´

Okay, I haven't read Forms' response to this yet, so I may be out of line, but *my* take on this is that something like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/RasselTassel/CA-sketchbook/LALA1.jpg
would *not* be accepted, because it's not complete. The idea isn't quite refined enough to work. It's a work in process.

Where as this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/RasselTassel/CA-sketchbook/surrealismhmwrk1.jpg
would be good to go.

Why? Because we have a completed thought.

Think of a sketch as your notes for class, not the research paper. The notes are good to have, and help you crystalize what you are after, but they won't get you the grade you want.

that's not to say that the final piece can't be sketchy, but it *does* need to be a finished thought that it cohesive, self contained and makes sense to the viewer.

Another good example of a sketchy style is Sparth's works. Very loose, but not loosley done, if you follow: one of Sparth's threads here (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=51476)

I think if you use that as a guideline, you won't have any problems :teeth:

Cheers,
~Oreg.

[Form]

Yes, expressive paintings will certainly be allowed. Your painting style will not come under attack. But the concept must be fully developed and realised, and the painting must show that it has been completed as intended.

Oregano pretty much hit it spot on.

[Antilight77]

I love the idea of EO(t)W and CHO(t)W… I will take part.

I would like to see 3 steps for each finished piece however.

1 The concept sketch, the basic underpinning of the illustration.
2 The halfway mark, the point at witch you say “hmm, almost their”
3 The completed drawing

True it might be a bit more time to save jepgs as you go but, this way we can see the mental progression to the final piece (perhaps learn a bit) and know that there is quality time being entered in to the work.

Suggestions for topics,

The goblins hut
Sewers under the abandoned city
Valhalla (for midgets)
OZ as seen by a fetish oriented monk.
The land that Hitler won
Sands of Dune
Restaurant at the end of the galaxy … ect

[Form]

"OZ as seen by a fetish oriented monk"


HAHAHA! haha! classic.

as for your suggestion, posting all of those images will make the thread too chaotic when it comes time to judge and finalise the thread. a few people in the COW activity have been uploading a wip and then editing the post with their final image, and thats ok i suppose, but i wont be making it compulsory.

[Form]

however, it would be great to see wips, colour studies etc.

if wips and so on were allowed in the weekly thread, and everyone was to submit a final image by the deadline, that could work. We would need a very clear system on how it works though, i dont want to have to search through a ten page thread hoping not to miss final entries.

[Red_Rook]

tuchten, think of it as an exercise, dealing with a client or company, doing an illustration. The easiest example is lets say your doing art for a magic card illustration. Your given a short descriptive brief, that explains what you need to do. Somehow i have the feeling that wizards wouldnt accept a sketch to put on their card no matter how good. Now rules and limitations are known to bring more creativity then a void. Theres an established system like with the cow, a formula that works, its futile arguing against it really. And as far as boring topics go, isnt it up to the artist to acctually do the challenge and make it fantastic and really cool, you dont need the topic to do that. The titan fortress, is a very good ratio of concrete design suggestions with enough ambiguity for making really creative environment shots, because it merely states there needs to be a titanic fortress of some kind, nothing is defining the environment, it could be a hightech fortress ina jungle or a floating fantasy one over open ocean, it up to you to make it a cool finished painting.

[arghmisfit]

cool


heres some topics - random word from the dictionary style :P

the flat city
ancient tribunal
highland swamp
groggy stronghold
dence emporium
blooming resort
post-apoc. fortress
desert of lost souls
fleshy jungle

[Oblio]

Umm.. don't get me wrong.. i think this thing needs another title.
COW - i ssweet and great. EOW.. is.. boring and ... hell we can do better then that.

And to be lame all the way... here you go.. some bla bla

WENVIW - Weekly Env. Workshop,
WEENVO - Weekly Env.

EDS - Env. De la Semaine :) :) (seems like i had too much of FR)

[Helzon]

Another title....hmm...SOW('Scape Of the Week)???

[tuchten]

"tuchten, think of it as an exercise, dealing with a client or company, doing an illustration. The easiest example is lets say your doing art for a magic card illustration. Your given a short descriptive brief, that explains what you need to do. Somehow i have the feeling that wizards wouldnt accept a sketch to put on their card no matter how good. "

stop saying "think of it" im not stupid, i just have a different oppinion. I understand your point. try to grasp my point:

wizards would accept half of the pictures here anyway. because there not good enaugh. You can post a bad picture if you have put time in it. But not a quick sketch nomatter how good. Then you send out signs that say, aslong as its well proccesed its good. WICH IS NOT TRUE. and I think your wizards would agree on that. you learn if you draw quicker. you will advance! this should be encuraged! if we do that, we might actually se our pictures on magic cards.

and about not arguing; we must argue , thats how things happen for gods sake.

sparth is not a good exampel either oregano. he is not quick enaugh. mullins maybe, he would probably not be accepted here. wich says it all.

but i rest my case, and accept your rules.
sorry if i sound mad, this subject is soft spot for me.

[S.C. Watson]

stop saying "think of it" im not stupid, i just have a different oppinion. I understand your point. try to grasp my point:

and about not arguing; we must argue , thats how things happen for gods sake.

No. We don't need to argue. Debat, perhaps. Not argue. And we *certainly* don't need to be rude.

And watch the attitude, dude, cause it's going to cause you grief.

[brokk]

How about a community activies general discussion thread? It seems like a lot of stuff is comming up and that should be addressed.

Speaking of which, how does an Illustration of the Week activity sound? (I know there are a lot of of the week activities being proposed, so its just another idea for the mix). The idea would be focusing on illustration, obviously, as a side activity to the concept stuff. Topics could go from illutrations for trading card games to book and manual interiors, covers, pin ups, etc.

I know that there is the counter argument that too many activites would take too much time for participants but how about starting a community activites general discussion thread for this and the other issues present?

[Form]

why the hell wouldnt mullins be accepted? of course he would. Mullins does paintings, not sketches.

anyway... you didnt seem to have a problem submitting finished stuff for COW tuchten. Im a fairly pragmatic guy - the rules are here and the reasons why have already been stated. You wanna push the limits of those rules, be my guest... it would be good to see what style you can develop with your sketches. But i probably wont be taking it to poll.

As mentioned earlier, i think i will allow (but not make compulsory) for sketches and wips to be shown and discussed during the weekly thread as i think its important for enviro work. However at the end of the week (WEEK!), each user will have to submit a final artwork to be taken to poll.

[Form]

hey broken:

i think its true that an escalation of activities will spread interest too thin and destroy any continuity here. As for illustration activities, rick hershey runs an illustration brief somewhere round here... with fully specified briefs (context, size, quality etc). Dig around... i know its still active.

[Interceptor]

This sounds like fun :)

[Fozzybar]

why the hell wouldnt mullins be accepted? of course he would. Mullins does paintings, not sketches.

even if he posted sketches in COW - i would accept them :teeth: It's the level i am talking about not the point of completion...though this is valid for COW, don't know how it will be handled over here... :blahblah:

[Form]

the reason someone like mullins' work (or any top nothc artist) would be accepted is because generally they have the ability to convey far more through a speedpaint than an amateur artist.

This has nothing to do with how the artist goes about producing the work, or how long it takes.

It has to do with 2 criteria: that the concept/idea is developed and not shallow, and that the image has been completed as its artist intended. A sketch by defenition is not a finished work, this activity will accept only work that is seen to be 'finished'. Posting unfinished work is an insult to those who go to the time and effort of critiquing finished pieces.

We critique finished pieces because it is presumed that the artist has worked out all the flaws he can in the avalable time - and needs help seeing flaws he has overlooked.

If you crit a work in progress, then you are critting things that the artist probably already knows about, its a waste of time.

Furthermore, as discussed with fozzybar earlier, COW is a different beast to EOW, in that a sketch for a creature is always a different thing than a sketch for an environment. A creature needs only a definition of the anatomy or appearance, enough to tell about the creature, everything else is polishing and not obviously necessary...but for environments, you need atmosphere, colors etc to define the whole concept.


So the rules stand. Wips and sketches may be shown and discussed in the weekly thread, but only finished artworks will be taken to poll. This will maintain the integrity of the activity the same way it has done for cow.

Now can we please paint?

[Form]

there is an FAQ up in the EOW forum, please read it before posting any more questions. Thanks

[brokk]

Form, thanks I found Rick Hershey's activity, I'm gonna try to join in next week.

[Dragonspit]

This sounds like something I would like to get into as well. I never joined the daily sketched group although think its a good thing. Just because I don't have time every day and then upload to my site, so on and so on. Family guy ,with buzy kids, yadda yadda yadda. But a weeks time is more like it.

I have a question tho. As I am not a big gaming guy, I could be miss understanding something in this weeks challenge. The Titan fortress. is that just a "pulled out of a hat" name to give the impression of large, or, is this based on something specific or story I should have known about? Dont think I have enough time to get on board with this one, but look forward to some of the next ones. Especially with all the great enviroments I have seen around these forums.


Never mind the stupid question, I went back and read aaaaaaaall the post and as would be expected, the answered lay. Ill shut up now.

[Form]

lol dragon, welcome to the activity :P

[Form]

neat idea mike :D and ill create an ideas thread now. thanks for reminding me.

[koshime]

say - someone was saying the WIP and sketches coudl beincluded inteh weekly thread. So would we indicate when our final image woudl be like?

I would like a step by step progression of the top three finalists or at least thoughts about the design/painting aspect that went into the pieces

[Form]

im not sure what your question is

yes, you can (and are encourage to) show your process work. no it is not required, nor can it be demanded of the finalists...

please explain your q. more thoroughly?