About contracts for an Independent film...

[devilry]

Hi, I'm an independent filmmaker and working on a live-action cg film. I'm at the stage where I'm about to hire people to help me design the film (concept artists) and also help me with the visual effects (cg artists). However, being an independent filmmaker, I don't have any funds to pay anyone I hire for the film. But, I do believe the film will make atleast some money, of course you want the movie to do really well and pay the people who worked on the movie the amount they deserve. But, still anyone who works on the film won't get paid until the movie is completed which will be in August or September of 2006.

But my question is, when I hire someone for the film to work for free, do I have to have them sign a contract or something similiar 'incase' the film get's bought or get's any money? I would also like to know how to protect my film, like by having them sign a contract that say's something like, anything they make for the film, is only for this film. Would a rule like that be apart of the contract or would that 'scare' the person I'm hiring to work on this independent film?

This is my first real film (I've done some other small short films, but nothing serious) and I don't have any experience with this. But I want to make sure I work on this film in a professional manor. So any help with what I should do when hiring people, would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

[Durastik]

If you plan to make money off this, a legally binding contract is the best way to go, if you have a friend who is a lawyer get them to lend you hand, otherwise I recommend editing an example contract off the internet.

I think that a contract won't scare possible workers off, if anything, it'll make them want to work for you because they know you are for real.

Peace

P.S. Does it have a site yet? I would like to see what it's about, I used to manage a 3d Cutscene making team.

[jcdlr]

HI devilry,

I just read what you wrote and I say go for the contract. Don't worry about
" scaring " your potential employees. I mean I went through a similar gig about 2 years ago for a guy that was working on a live action independant film and it went well.

I mean it shows you are serious about your work and anyways the contract is for proctecting both the employer and employee.

Give me a shout when you are ready, I might be interested in what you have to offer.

Thanks,

Jean Claude,
Freelance Illustrator

[devilry]

Thanks for the help guys, really helped me out.

@ Durastic, I won't have my website up for this film until December, when I have something to show on the website.

I guess creating a Binding Agreement (contract) would be an excellent thing to do. I'm glad i won't be scaring people by flashing a contract in their face (not literally of course, lol). But just curious, is creating a Binding Agreement the only contract i could use? Like would that be the best one or are there other similiar contracts that might work better for my situation? Like the Employment Contract or is that the same thing as the Binding Agreement?

This Binding Agreement contract, is an agreement when one person offer's something the other person accepts it. Thing is though, that I'm not 100% guaranteeing an offer, because it depends on the success of the film. So, how would that work? Do i simply right that in the contract, that "I am willing to pay you IF the movie makes any money or get's bought?" Is that how it works in my position?

-Thanks again.

[jcdlr]

Thanks for the help guys, really helped me out.

@ Durastic, I won't have my website up for this film until December, when I have something to show on the website.

I guess creating a Binding Agreement (contract) would be an excellent thing to do. I'm glad i won't be scaring people by flashing a contract in their face (not literally of course, lol). But just curious, is creating a Binding Agreement the only contract i could use? Like would that be the best one or are there other similiar contracts that might work better for my situation? Like the Employment Contract or is that the same thing as the Binding Agreement?

This Binding Agreement contract, is an agreement when one person offer's something the other person accepts it. Thing is though, that I'm not 100% guaranteeing an offer, because it depends on the success of the film. So, how would that work? Do i simply right that in the contract, that "I am willing to pay you IF the movie makes any money or get's bought?" Is that how it works in my position?



-Thanks again.

Hi Devilry,

That's a good question you got there. I also have one in return lol ...how would you proove to the artists or people that you hired for the job that your project (Film) did go through or not ? I mean for all I know you could tell me that your project died and keep all the money to yourself ...know what I mean ? So I guess there is a way to be safe for both parties in this kind of situation.

Another thing that you have to consider is let's say that your project goes through and that you do decide to keep that info from the people that you have on your team...Personnaly there are allot of people that wouldn't be able to go after you in court because of the fees that it implies..specially if those persons live in another country.

Personnally I did a gig about 2 years ago and the guy was suppose to pay me 500.00 U.S dollars for the job I did and only paid me half that amount. He still owes me today...am I ready to go after him in court ? Hell no because it's going to cost me more out of my pocket just to send him a letter and starting the process of it all.

So yeah I got my share of trouble in the past... I learned the hard way but I also learned that if the guy tells you that he will pay you once the job is done...I say " You pay me half now for half the job that you will receive..and the other half you will get it once I have finished the job".

A good rule of thumb to follow is the 33%-33%-34% payment method.

I'm also curious about your questions trust me.

Jean Claude,
Freelance Illustrator

[devilry]

Yah, you make a good point 'Jcdlr' and i've also thought about that same thing as well. Where the people working on the movie might not even have a clue the movie made any money, it's quite possible. But, I don't think it's that possible in this day and age, because of the internet and other way's of finding information through the media. You can easily check if your movie got accepted at some film festivals for example and also find out if it won any awards. And a lot of film festivals actually give away cash prizes as awards for best film/animation/director and what not. That's the way I'll be able to pay the artist's who work on the film, not only by film festival awards that have cash prizes of course, but also if the movie get's bought by a distributor (and these aren't the only way to pay back the artist's). Depending on the success of the film, you can easily find out on the internet if a movie got bought for distribution. Of course if the movie didn't do well, and some small distributor buys the movie, then of yeah a filmmaker who owns the rights to the movie can easily keep that information to himself and keep all the profits from that sale.

And if you come across a filmmaker like that, then that's just bad luck i guess, you've met one of those many scammers that are in the industry that you hear so much about. People just need to trust that not all filmmaker's do it for the money. I can careless about the money, only reason i need it is so i can make a movie which includes things like paying the artist's for their time and hardwork, filming the movie, paying for additional costs and what not. I'm making movies so I can make it my full-time career and not some hobby. That being said you can obviously assume that I'm going to make sure the movie makes money, because if the artist's don't get paid, I don't get paid.

"...I say " You pay me half now for half the job that you will receive..and the other half you will get it once I have finished the job"."

I'm not capable of doing that, because I have no money to begin with, just enough to film it/buy softwares and hardwares i need for myself to make the movie and stuff like that. Which is the whole point of the contract, to state that if the movie makes any money whats so ever, you will be paid. That's all i know of that i can do in this situation. Unless someone knows a better way of dealing with this? Which is why I'm here :) And you guys have helped out a lot already and i appreciate it.

So yah, I'm still wondering about my earlier question in my second reply on this thread. If you guys or anyone else can help me out with that, that'd be awesome.

Thanks once again.

[jcdlr]

Yeah I know what you mean about trying to make your present hobby as your living income. Trust me I'm in illustration and design and I'm trying to make it into the business and it's not easy. Well if we all end up living happy and doing what makes us happy ...then let's go for it.

Don't give up..that's the most important thing. ;)



Jean Claude,
Freelance Illustrator

[FinbarReilly]

Check out what is called a "deferred contract"; it should be available on some of the entertainment business sites. This should be exactly what you're looking for...

FR

[Atreides]

I see what you"re saying. Under Australian law for a contract to be binding both parties must receive a "consideration". ie they each have to get something from the transaction.
I think in a situation like this obviously the film producer gets work done and the artist gets a share in the film which may or may not pay off. Just like if you buy a share in a business, it's irrelevant whether the business is successful or not. The share is still an asset which has been transferred.

So the consideration that changes hands is the "share" which has potential to pay money. By all this I mean that the terms of waht makes a contract can be fulfilled without any money changing hands. But some conditions have to be met. A sigend piece of paper with some legal gibberish on it isnot necessarily a contract.

I am so hung over I can hardlly read this. I stop writing now

[devilry]

@ jcdlr - Thanks man, I'm far from giving up. :)

@ FinbarReilly - Hey, thanks for letting me know about that 'deferred contract'. From what I found on the internet, there isn't an actual contract called a 'deferred contract', there's things like 'Deferred payment annuity' which means "An Annuity that stipulates payments be made to the Annuitant at a later date, such as when the annuitant reaches a certain age. " (direct definition from a site). There's other kinds of deferred contracts, but the 'Deferred Payment Annuity' seemed like the best one for me.

But, knowing that's there's more then one way of writing a contract now, I think creating a 'binding contract' is still probably the best one to use. Because, a Deferred contract is actually a contract which will be paid 100% on a certain date. That won't work in my situation becauase for one, don't even know if the movie will make money and two, won't know how much to pay the artist's anyways. So the binding contract would be the best in my situation. However, this is what i've researched and found out so far, but I might be wrong about how these contracts work, so if I made a mistake, please let me know.

@ Atreides - What you said made a lot of sense on how a binding contract works and it really helped me out. Reading your post, I think creating a binding contract would even more best suit my needs.

You also said that, "A sigend piece of paper with some legal gibberish on it isnot necessarily a contract." How would i create a proper contract then? Cause i honestly thought that's how it would've been. By creating a binding contract and having the artist's sign it, from what i've read on the internet, its looks to be that simple. Think you can explain that a little bit?

However, you explained it under an 'Australian law', I can only hope it works the same way in Canada. You seem to know a lot about this type of stuff as well, so maybe you can explain a little more when your sober'd up? :) Appreciate it man.

[devilry]

Another question popped into mind. Is there anything wrong with hiring someone and then asking them to sign a contract later? Or is that a problem?

I'm wondering cause, I need to hire an artist soon, in about a week or so. But, i wont have the binding contract ready in time and I don't want the artist to sign it, until i know it's good.

So is it possible to hire someone and have them sign a contract later?

Thanks.

[FinbarReilly]

1) No prob. I mentioned the deferred contract as it's almost a standard part of the beginning part of a lot of movie careers; cast and crew will sometimes work under the understanding that they will get paid from any profits that the film generates.

2) If you want the person to work wth you, then yeah, you need to be able to sign a contract up front. It doesn't just give them protection, but protects you as well.

If it helps...

FR

[Dictator Oz]

I would be interested to know more about the kind of movie you want to produce. Maybe if it's a interesting contrat I could find time to work on your production. It's depend of many thing.

I am currently working full time but I will try answer your email the quicker I can.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v244/dictatoroz/Julien%20Robitaille/

[Atreides]

Yeah sorry to reply late, I just meant that not every signed piece of paper is a contract and not every contract is a signed piece of paper. Certain conditions have to be met even if it's all on paper for it to be a legal contract. And a contract can also be existent through word of mouth agreement, but obviously it's harder to prove.

But if you can't be bothered having a solicitor draft a contract for you do what I do. Write a letter of agreement. It's just a letter that states what everyone is doing and clarifies their rights and responsibilities in simple English. Film producers I've worked with have been fine with that and sometimes a Non Disclosure Agreement (which is obviously a contract). I suppose it just depends how hot you think your IP is.

This stuff is pretty fundamental to how contracts are understood in Western culture and is derived from English tort law so I don't think at this level there would be much difference between Australia and Canada.

[devilry]

Hey guys, sorry i havent posted in awhile. I had a few things i had to go figure out before posting anything.

Anyways, thanks for your advice Finbar, although i'm having a hard time finding a contract under that 'deferred agreement' I read one thing, that was similiar, it was actually called a deferral plan. Exactly what a deferred contract is, except it was explained in a paragraph. Saying that you'll only get paid if the movie makes any profit. If you don't mind showing me an actual deferred contract, that'd be super helpful, if not that's totally fine. I think i understand how that contract works.

Hey Dictactor, thanks for your interest in the project. However, I'm only going to be hiring people who live in my area, around Vancouver. If i have a hard time finding people to work on the movie locally, then i'll be looking for people through the internet. So if it comes to that, i'll definitely let you know.

Thanks for your help as well Atreides, i pm'd you few days ago, and i can't wait to see those examples you can show me.

While i was trying to figure out how contracts work. A few questions popped into mind. I'm wondering how i should hire a freelance artist for the film. Should i hire him as an actual employee under my company, just as a temporary employee until his work is completed or just as an outside freelance artist who isn't apart of the company? I'm not quite sure which one would be better for my situation or if there's even a difference.

Another thing that i'm curious about is and that i haven't found any particular information on is. What if i hire an artist and works on the film for awhile. But, he begins to slack off or for any apparent reason, i dont want him on the project anymore and i want to terminate the contract. Now, apart of that contract is a confidentiality agreement or an NDA, where you can't talk about the movie to anyone. But if i were to terminate the contract, would that artist who just got fired, be able to talk about any confidential stuff about the movie or display any work he's done for the movie, since he's not apart of the contract/agreement anymore?

There's a few more questions i have in mind, but i'll just leave it with those two for now.

Thanks in advance!

[devilry]

Alright guys, back again. I got side-tracked with the some other things while working on the contract, so i never got a chance to finish it. I finally got around to finishing it again, just yesterday and i was wondering about something.

There's two ways i could make a contract: a simple 1-2 page contract with an NDA, where it states all the basic terms in simple English. Or, a more complicated, 'official' looking contract, about 3 pages long with an NDA. I personally prefer the longer, more official contract, because you feel a lot more 'protected' and there's a lot more terms that are covered. But, it's hard for me to see what the actual 'artist' would prefer. The simple 1-2 page contract does look very friendly and simple and i can see artist going for that oppose to the longer more complicated one. So, i'd like to hear what you guys think, it's be very helpful.

Thanks.