Why is Getting a Bachelor's Degree in Art so Important?

[NoSeRider]

Typical Course Sequence

First Quarter
FS101 Fundamentals/Observational Drawing
FS102 Fundamentals of Design
FS103 Color Theory
FS104 Computer Applications
HU110 College English *

Second Quarter
FS111 Drawing, Proportion & Perspective
MA1112 Drawing & Anatomy
FS131 Typography - Traditional
FS122 Image Manipulation
HU111 Effective Speaking *

Third Quarter
GA1121 Survey of the Game Industry
MA1122 Character & Object Design
MA1124 Sculpture for Animation
MA1132 Life Drawing & Gesture
MS110 Quantitative Literacy & Reasoning *

Fourth Quarter
GA2201 Game Design and Game Play
MA1131 Conceptual Storytelling
MA1133 2D Animation Principles
MA1134 Principles of 3D Modeling
HU130 Visual Language & Culture *

Fifth Quarter
MA2201 Background Design & Layout
MA2202 Story Boarding for Animation
GA2212 Game Modeling & Animation
MA2204 3D Animation
MS111 College Algebra *

Sixth Quarter
GA2211 Hard Surface & Organic Modeling
EL01 Elective
MA2212 3D Camera Techniques
MA2214 Audio for Animation
FS239 Career Development

Seventh Quarter
GA3311 Material & Lighting
GA3312 Level Design
GA3313 Designing 3D Environments
GA3314 3D Character Rigging
HU357 Ethics *

Eighth Quarter
MA3312 Advanced Lighting & Texture
GA3322 Advanced Level Design
GA3323 3D Scripting
GA3324 Character Modeling
SB112 Psychology *

Ninth Quarter
GA3331 Game Prototyping
GA3332 Interface Design for Games
GA3333 Introduction to Scripting Languages
HU230 Art History *
HU251 Literature *

Tenth Quarter
GA4401 Advanced Game Prototyping
GA4402 Senior Project Planning
GA4403 Intermediate Scripting Languages
GA4424 Advanced Character Rigging
SB110 World Civilization *

Eleventh Quarter
MA3324 Character Animation
EL02 Elective
GA4412 Senior Project 1
SB113 Sociology *
SB250 Humanities *

Twelfth Quarter
EL03 Elective
GA4422 Senior Project 2
FS497 Portfolio II
SB210 US History *
SB111 Anthropology *

FS399 Internship I
FS499 Internship II



http://www.aicasd.artinstitutes.edu/programs_detail.asp?extraid=1596&pid=9&dtid=3

I look at that curriculum and all I see are classes that I can take at community colleges at a tenth of the price.

Why should I spend $70,000 on school for classes that are readily available at community colleges?

I've taken Calculus and Biology.........to me these classes don't seem that challenging.

Justin Sweet, Feng Zhu, Jim Lee.......alot of people never got a BS Degree in Art.

Plus, I've seen people get a Bachelor's Degree and end up in a job not of their academic training.

Isn't it more about learning what it's all about then pursuing a piece of paper?

[Magic Man]

You so spectacularly missed the point of my posts, that I am finding this hilarious right about now.

Btw, maybe you'll want to take a course on those so that maybe you won't think that "the goal of concept art is to draw without reference"? Just a thought.

[darth massacre]

Btw, maybe you'll want to take a course on those so that maybe you won't think that "the goal of concept art is to draw without reference"? Just a thought.
Oh my God this is gold! :teeth: I'm not supposed to post anything until I post new artwork but this is too much to handle.

[I_LOVE_ART]

I agree with you, but we live in a world that people with that piece of paper and little knowledge earn more and is respected more than people with more knowledge and no piece of paper. :[

And yes, many people spend years specialising in a field of expertise, then get a job in a totally different environment. Like my friend with a BSc in Physics and now he is working in a bank.

[NoSeRider]

You miss my point.

I can take these classes at community colleges, without getting a bachelor's degree.

http://www.cccco.edu/find/alphabetical.htm
Here's a listing of community colleges.

http://www.coastline.edu/
http://www.gwc.info/index2.html
http://academy.smc.edu/

Basically, I'm researching this stuff and it's driving me nutz.

Plus this sculpture really makes me leery of art schools:
http://www.aicasd.artinstitutes.edu/images/programs/GAD_4.jpg
I think you also understand why I'm so angry at art schools in San Diego.

[MarkHarchar]

Getting any kind of schooling, whether is is two year or four degrees is this. It proves that you have the initiative and the intestinal fortitude to put up with a load of crap, other students, annoying professors that you hate and still fulfill the requirements that are set forth in front of you to complete. Interships which are usually intended to do nothing but allow to experience adequate amounts of abuse for you reach the real world are usually in 2 and 4 year curriculums.

However, from the previous posts, it appears that you are experiencing some of the that abuse early. CA.org, for the abuse that you are missing in the real world...LOL

[K-17]

I've been self-taught most of my life, and i gotta admit i take some pride in it. I just did my first year in art school and gotta say most classes i had were a waste of time. Wherever i didn't have to put up with project methodology, it was the same old obsession with impressionism, expressionism, futurism and all those other currents that basically fought the academies and each other's ways and are now put in the same academic bag. That and and aesthetics' theory which was basically like philosophy only even more senseless and useless. It made me hate art, to an extent.

Still, it's useful. I've learned a great deal from painting classes even if i still have a great deal more to learn. And it's not just the classes but all the people around you. It was the first time i was around so many skilled people (who all happened to have a totally different style from my own). It motivated me to work harder on my own skills, and learn stuff i didn't know.

And to point out the painful obvoius, a piece of paper these days can open all the right doors, wether you're qualified to go through them or not.

That's my experience anyway.

[madster]

Not all community college courses transfer to a full four-year Bachelor's degree. Sometimes you will only get 40-60%, because the Community College courses are more of a skim-over, rather than "in-depth" discussion, with homework done more on your own, rather than in-class.

Check out transfers before you sing the community college praises too loudly.
Often, you'll pay the same in the end, and have to take some courses AGAIN...

~M

[Steph Laberis]

It's all about the end result.

If I show a portfolio to a potential employer that has mediocre artwork in it, but I scream, "NO! I am SELF TAUGHT and I am not an ART SCHOOL SNOB!! BROWNIE POINTS PLS KTHX!", I'm probably not going to get that job.

If I show them a portfolio with competent artwork, they're not going to care as much whether or not I reached that point through a college or through my own studies. I can give them what they want and that's that.

People who are self-taught have every right to be proud of themselves. They do have to work harder than some who attend an art school (and yes, there are ALWAYS those lazy asses who bullshit their way through school).

My experience with art school was mixed; you needed to be self-driven as nothing was spoon-fed to you and I did feel the school that I went to was over-priced, since many of the graduates went on to teach the same caliber of courses at smaller art schools in the area.

But I won't lie - a school can and will get you connections to the jobs you want, through internships or alumni. You have to be willing to pay for those connections, I guess.

But the fact still remains; you need to have the quality of work to back yourself up. If you can supplement your portfolio with community college courses, do it, but like madster said, you risk getting watered-down instruction.

Just get yourself primed and ready to land the jobs you want.

[Main Loop]

http://www.aicasd.artinstitutes.edu/programs_detail.asp?extraid=1596&pid=9&dtid=3

I look at that curriculum and all I see are classes that I can take at community colleges at a tenth of the price.

Why should I spend $70,000 on school for classes that are readily available at community colleges?

I've taken Calculus and Biology.........to me these classes don't seem that challenging.

Justin Sweet, Feng Zhu, Jim Lee.......alot of people never got a BS Degree in Art.

Plus, I've seen people get a Bachelor's Degree and end up in a job not of their academic training.

Isn't it more about learning what it's all about then pursuing a piece of paper?

exactly! that took me about 3 years to get, heh.. im at AAU but im only taking the classes i want, now...

[el coro]

you dont neeed a degree. i am a high school AND college dropout, and i do just fine. something you gotta realize is that the only person who determines whether or not you can earn a living as an artist is YOU. a piece of paper dont mean shit. it is entirely hinged on the quality of work you produce. and the only person that can make your work good by putting in the necessary time is..................you.-c36

[theincredibleandy]

first off, I think a degree only matters in rare cases, and they usually involve employers who aren't really looking at your portfolio. Secondly, I hope you don't think figure painting 101 at the local community college is the same as 15 weeks of teaching from a master painter. Look at community college portfolios and art school portfolios, then come back and tell us how insane the difference is. There are people in any school who shouldn't be there, but by and large it makes a big fat difference. Some people don't need schooling. I did. Every time I visit deviantart I'm glad made that choice.

[NoSeRider]

Every time I visit deviantart I'm glad made that choice.

I getcha.

I just gotta move outta San Diego.

[bizarre]

k. um... i'm in community college right now. as much as a lot of people have ripped on my artwork in the past, i fucking pwn this place. no competition. it sucks.

makes me wanna quit. or like, kick puppies.

college is an environment that fosters learning, and more advanced analytical and organizational skills.

rather than try to introduce the argument of 'if you can't pedal a bike, how can you expect to learn tricks? college teaches you how to pedal a bike!'

i introduce:
what happens if you think you're hot shit in your neighborhood, and you are, but see, the next neighborhood over has hot shit all over the place. college makes you work along side some of these hot shits. you see what you're up against. you learn the reasonable and realistic competition in your immediate future, and it definitely motivates you. and humbles you. before you argue that OH BUT PLACES LIKE CONCEPTART SHOW ME WHAT I'M UP AGAINST!!! uh, nope. not really. that's a bit, uh... small minded and naive to think that conceptart, an almost hall-of-fame of artists shows you what's out there. these people that you idolise and fawn over aren't the ordinary everyday. your chances are a lot better than you think.

so just work. either you go to college or you don't. if you go to college, you get the smug satisfaction of being able to wave the piece of paper and open big doors rather than ramming them with a giant, dull pencil. yeah. an HB battering ram. if you don't go to college, that door's not gonna open with a bit of knocking and a bit of walking.

really the only excuse you can use for not going to college is money/lack of money or... well, even then, there's all kinds of options for financial aid...

hmmph.

whine and moan all you want, but really it's up to you what you want to do, where you want to go, and how far you wanna go. you're your own worst critic. get the hell out of your own way.

[Ilaekae]

Your "competition" down the line isn't your kid sister, classmate or the guy next door who can draw Dick Tracey just like in the comics, it's the select group of maybe a few hundred people who form the absolute top of the field right now. You're going to war...against the biggest, most dangerous, best armed enemy in the world. Whether you wanna take 'em on with only a plastic spork or not is a decision that only you can make.

I believe firmly in every cell of my body that I am NOT as good as the guy in front of me, so I have to try to be better, smarter and work harder. When the bastards finally shoot me in the back of the head and throw dirt on my ass, I'll know how well I did by how many are still chasing me compared to how many are still in front, looking back over their shoulders with that scared little puppy look...

The "tools" are out there. Use 'em. Or not. It's your choice, but just remember to keep looking over your shoulder...

[Orcatraz]

Not all community college courses transfer to a full four-year Bachelor's degree. Sometimes you will only get 40-60%, because the Community College courses are more of a skim-over, rather than "in-depth" discussion, with homework done more on your own, rather than in-class.
The school I went to doesn't transfer any community college art credits. I had classmates who thought they were going to be saving money by going to CC first, but they ended up paying more and wasting lots of time.

[CaptainInsano]

You DON'T need a degree in art. (those look like Art Institute class schedule).


3 of my friends dropped out of the Art Institute and landed great jobs working in the game industry. They don't have a degree. They have talent.

You don't have to take ALL of those classes. It's a waste of time and money to take typography and "effective" speaking . Bullshit.

Just take the 3D animation, modeling, and life drawing class.

Infact, the life drawing at the art institute sucks. Go to a fine arts school for figure drawing. It's cheaper and the instructors know what they're doing.

[Main Loop]

i introduce:
what happens if you think you're hot shit in your neighborhood, and you are, but see, the next neighborhood over has hot shit all over the place. college makes you work along side some of these hot shits. you see what you're up against. you learn the reasonable and realistic competition in your immediate future, and it definitely motivates you. and humbles you. before you argue that OH BUT PLACES LIKE CONCEPTART SHOW ME WHAT I'M UP AGAINST!!! uh, nope. not really. that's a bit, uh... small minded and naive to think that conceptart, an almost hall-of-fame of artists shows you what's out there. these people that you idolise and fawn over aren't the ordinary everyday. your chances are a lot better than you think.


in some ways thats true, but then, if you think of it that way, there are people even BETTER than the top tier on conceptart out there, not really in the field of production art, but other types of illustration and art in general.. THat's the real competition..

Your "competition" down the line isn't your kid sister, classmate or the guy next door who can draw Dick Tracey just like in the comics, it's the select group of maybe a few hundred people who form the absolute top of the field right now. You're going to war...against the biggest, most dangerous, best armed enemy in the world. Whether you wanna take 'em on with only a plastic spork or not is a decision that only you can make.

very well put

[Main Loop]

[QUOTE=ParkerD]It's a waste of time and money to take typography and "effective" speaking [QUOTE]

eh, i think typography and graphic design are good avenues of art to be at least familiar with, you dont have to be pro level with them but if you're going to be an illustrator, having an idea of what they go through is actually pretty valuable

[bizarre]

Ilaekae- yeah, but i was trying to convince myself i had at least some kind of chance at getting SOME kind of job.

and like i said, college shows you what you're up against immediately- whose resume's you're gonna be fightin' with and such, at least locally.

it's good to think big, but there's no need to be afraid that you're up against the best armed enemy in the world. chances are, you're not gonna be in direct opposition to the top brass of the enemy. i'm not saying don't try hard, oh no... don't get me wrong, work your ass off!

what i'm saying is don't cry yourself to sleep because you can't draw like Craig Mullins Mohammid Aimar Tyson Fuckin Ali.

don't worry, you're not competing with them just yet. might as well focus on workin up your chops. THEN shoot for the olympics.

college, in my mind, is the act of doing a little work now for a little less work later.

[Irene Gallo]

You don't have to take ALL of those classes. It's a waste of time and money to take typography and "effective" speaking . Bullshit.


It's depressing how many artists I can't work with because they just cannot communicate. :nohope:

[bizarre]

it's just ignorant to call any kind of higher education 'bullshit'. just because you can't imagine needing to make a presentation to a room full of people doesn't mean public speech classes are useless.


just because you can't imagine typing up comps for design documents, or designing/choosing an appropriate font to go along with your art director's vision doesn't mean typography is useless.

[loomer]

Irene - that's an interesting comment you made...
I realize that several artists are soft-spoken, shy, quiet...
Do you feel this stands in the way of having a successful AD/illustrator relationship..or is it some other greater miscommunication that is really the downfall of the artist?
Perhaps a course in business isn't such a bad idea..?

[NoSeRider]

It's a waste of time and money to take typography and "effective" speaking . Bullshit.

Unfortunitely I agree with what he's saying.

Typography should be left to the graphic designers.....I don't wanna be a graphic designer.

Effective Speaking is another community college class I can take. Why pay $1500 a semester for that when you can get the same class at a community college for $126?........I did take a debate class at JC by the way, which explains my utter obstinance.

I can take a Typography class at a JC as well. It's a rip off I tell ya.

[geertje]

Bizarre- Honey, you said it perfectly.

I'd like to add, that a bachelors or masters degree is not the only road to rome. But its the fastest way. In a short ammount of time, you're beeing tought to live, breath and act professional. You're tought the skills of survival, doing it on your own. With that you get all the support and critics to start developing your own style. Next to it, a masters degree shows that you have reached a curtain level of thinking, independence and skills. You give yourself a headstart, and within college you can work to get above the mowfield.

My two cents,
kusje to my liefe

[CaptainInsano]

It's depressing how many artists I can't work with because they just cannot communicate. :nohope:


Taking a 10 week course, one day a week, isn't going to help that person learn how to communicate to your liking. It's a fundamental problem that requires a long-term solution. A teacher at an ART school isn't going to cure anyone of their communication disabilities.

You don't send people to art school to teach them how to communicate well. That's something that is facilitated since birth from family, friends, and societal interaction. A 10 week course in "effective" speaking from an art school is not gonna make up for a life-time's worth of neglect. And needlessly spent $1,500 for it as well.

[madster]

Taking a 10 week course, one day a week, isn't going to help that person learn how to communicate to your liking. It's a fundamental problem that requires a long-term solution. A teacher at an ART school isn't going to cure anyone of their communication disabilities.

You don't send people to art school to teach them how to communicate well. That's something that is facilitated since birth from family, friends, and societal interaction. A 10 week course in "effective" speaking from an art school is not gonna make up for a life-time's worth of neglect. And needlessly spent $1,500 for it as well.Ummmm...Parker, you're talking about teh Madster...
I can wave more damn educational paper at you than can choke a recycling plant, but effective communications are something that only experience can teach you.
I used to joke that the Community College I went to (speaking from sad experience on the transfer thing, okay?) did not offer any classes on Communications With Tact and Diplomacy, but if they did, I would be the very first person to sign up for them, and would probably end up repeating the class. No one who has ever worked "up close and personal," nor, I would wager, many others on this planet, ever doubted, nor disagreed with me...
I have my strengths, but effective, interactive communications is still a skill I struggle with (NO....not Madster...). It is a continuing effort at improvement...

All I can suggest is tolerance and clear communications. Many here have communicated with me on many levels, and whatever changes have occured are due to clear communications, never trash-talking, because I can do that with the rest and the best of ya... ;) I know that my communication skills have improved, due in large part to having to communicate my observations to a very large and diverse audience, so having to adjust and tune to achieve maximum effect, with minimum misunderstanding/offense. Many of us have shortcomings that cannot be cured by 3rd Party education. You can only learn so much when you are "self-taught." Some of it really takes the feedback that only interaction with others can provide.

That is not to write off "formal education at a higher level." For some, the structured routine of classes and drawing can be helpful. For some, the knowledge gained of Art History, or Composition and Figure Drawing can be priceless. Not everyone has the same level of technical talent AND theoretical foundation. And for a great many, the discipline required and taught by attending classes with deadlines and assignments, is enough of a lesson in itself...

There are many paths to the destination...But all of them still require time and effort.

~M

[simfonie]

Take mine and madster's advice, and check it out first. During HS, I took a few classes that TCC (Tidewater Community College) gave us credit for. After I graduated HS (this summer, in fact). My friend took the same classes as I did and went on to ODU. She doesn't have to take any English nor Math classes the four years she's at ODU. BUT I'm at William & Mary, and though some of the credits transfer, they equate to squat -- I still have to take English and Math. Seriously, take the time to check it all out. Plus, on the emotional side, there is a certain feel to living on campus at a college or university. It's a big change from HS, and an even bigger change from CC. I wouldn't say a 4-year college is for everyone, but I think you should check one out (with the proper work and funding, it isn't nearly as expensive at you'd expect).

[MoP]

I need a BA degree if I want to get out of the UK and work in the USA or Canada (USA is still a bitch to get into, even with a degree - without one, it's nigh-on impossible).

If I had decided not to take a university course, I could have had a job in the videogame industry as an artist 2-3 years ago (really, it pains me to turn down job offers!).

I'm doing it because it opens doors. That's why it's so important to me. Granted, I could probably just work on my art in spare time while keeping a real job, and I'd probably be better at art than I am now, but university helps me to look in different directions and make different choices.

I'm not all too enamoured with the course I'm on, but it has taught me a fair bit of valuable stuff I might not have picked up on my own.

NoSeRider: Seriously, if you spent more effort on actually actively looking for a job rather than whining about why you can't get one, I think you'd have had what you wanted a while ago. You've been posting threads along the same lines as this one for years, both here and on Polycount.
Get your act together and just go crazy. I know your art is good enough to get you a job, therefore I can only assume that either you're not sending out enough portfolios, or you botch up any interviews you get.
Am I right? Or is there some other factor at play here?

[NoSeRider]

I'm going to an Atelier.

I go to class with people that work at Sony.

I get conflicting messages on what it takes.

CSU Long Beach will offer a 4 year degree for cheap. Might look into that.

[DavePalumbo]

I admit I skimmed the responses here because I already knew what my answer was when I opened the thread. In my opinion, and on the advice of some veterans of the field whom I've spoken with:

An art degree is useful only if you want to become an art teacher. This doesn't mean that you should just take community college courses if you have the means to do better. The important thing is the quality of the education you recieve, and that applies equally to community college, top of the line art schools, or even private study with a professional artist. All three of these will likely help you develope your skill, though only two of these may give you a degree. But the degree is not included in your portfolio. I've personally never heard of a client asking to see one (though this may be different in the videogame design industry, don't know much about that). You should be concerned, however, with the quality of work that's coming out of your intended learning center.

I went to school to learn how to paint. My school gave the option of taking an additional year (after graduation) at University of Pennsylvania to get a degree. I didn't go for that, the majority of the students I knew did. I've seen no evidence that those with the degree have been any more succesful than those without.

Your "competition" down the line isn't your kid sister, classmate or the guy next door who can draw Dick Tracey just like in the comics, it's the select group of maybe a few hundred people who form the absolute top of the field right now. You're going to war...against the biggest, most dangerous, best armed enemy in the world.

This is my new favorite motivational quote

[CruShTinbOX]

I think the real question is, why do people who make threads like this always assume getting a degree is the only reason people go to school. You don't go to school to get a degree, you go to learn.

[MoP]

NoSeRider: Let me put it this way - your art, from what I've seen, is better than a lot of people who get a first-time job in the games industry.

So what is it you're not doing that they are? You evidently have the art skills... what is it you're missing? Are you being as forceful with sending out portfolios and resumes? Are you chasing up every possible lead? Do you have certain needs which prevent you from undercutting the competition in terms of pay or location? Are you an asshole when it comes to dealing with people in person or in interviews?

These are pretty much the only things I can think of that would stand in your way.

Let us consider that you art is good enough to get you a job - what else are you missing?

Can you answer that? If not ... maybe you should start asking yourself why....

[BlueMech]

My parents are seriously pushing me going to college, and I don' know what I want to do. I hear arguments from both sides, even from pros. It's really frustrating.

[Eyal]

noserider, id listen to coro, a good example of how it gets done

coro is no more talented than any other guy (well he probably is ;) but for the sake of this point lets pretend he isnt),

he just got his ass down on a cone and did what he enjoys doing anyways - a lot of a lot of gay sex.. eh no i mean drawing! yes he did a lot of drawing.

you work hard, youll get better bro, its only one way up.
you slack and you will drop down.

some people dont have that discipline and /or passion - so they go to school.

some people think going to school and getting straight A's is a subtitue for working hard.

but ill tell you one thing..
the best artists i see here in ringling, where i am, are the ones who have a big 'fuck this school' sticker on their foreheads. the value of the education is no greater than what you can learn on your own if you stick to your sketchbook and practicing, and these guys care little about school courses. some let you do your own thing.. most dont.

personally, i share the same view.

marshall arissman was here just the other day on lecture, and he told me exactly the same thing. man that dude is hardcore!

i think all you gotta ask yourself is what do you want out of it, then go and make it happen.

[NoSeRider]

I'm just highly critical and very suspicious.

Basically, I want to work on my ability to render and color.

I've sent out portfolios, but I think they want something more professional.
People accuse me of having an ego, but I really don't.......if I did, I'd have an art job.

[Eyal]

well if you just 'want to get better' and you think you cant do it on your own - go to school. sometimes we need to see whats on the other side just to realize we dont need it. you cant go wrong here, if you focus is true and your goal is honest - you are already self accomplished.

the ego you mentioned just gets in the way.. like planting seeds of fear and self doubt. you dont need it man, and may not need school, just do whatever is good for you.

getting a job is not everything in life. you dont need a piece of paper to tell you you are an artist. and if you're a good artist - people will pay you to do stuff. believe in yourself bro. from what ive seen you have good potential.. so i say stop fearing so much about the future and live the moment.. go draw and you'll get better.

[obid619]

Hey man, i'm from SD, too. Forget about doing that stuff. If I were you I'd do art and another major at a cheaper college. I mean, if you go to an art institute, it'd be way expensive, while there are many talented individuals that have good careers in art that never went to art college. When i'm talking about another major, you should get a certificate in something else that your interested in. That way you can have two very good skills and you can fall back on one or the other if one fails. BTW if you want to attend classes that has to do with art, I'd just buy books of art (try Jack Hamm, he's awesome), go to community college (way cheapter), or maybe attend an Atilier (like watts atilier). Just my two cents. :yayca:

[wazabi]

NoSeRider- reading at this post and your past ones it seems to me that you just want to validate yourself for not going to a big art college.

I dont think that anyone has to get a degree if they have the self dicipline to teach themselves. I knew I didn't have it so I went to college.
At least for me the degree doesnt mean shit but the money spent on the education was worth it.
So if you think you have what it takes to do it yourself then go for it.

[cotron]

when you goto school, you're buying time... time to sit and immerse yourself in the things you supposedly want to be doing for the better part of your life. I had to work while I was in school, but having the expectations of duedates and things like that made me really push to learn and get shit done. learning to talk aout your work, and being around other artists is invaluable- Just the experience of being around other like-minded people is worth it... diplomas ain't shit, but the life-experience is what's most important.

Also, this sounds lame, but that paper is a contingency plan... to certain jobs it's most important. I work in advertising because my freelance just isn't there yet, but I'm able to be somewhat creative and pay the bills... and I wouldnt have the job I have now w/o the degree. Hopefully I'll be able to shed this busywork soon, but until then, food's in my belly because of my degree.

[Jason Manley]

It's depressing how many artists I can't work with because they just cannot communicate. :nohope:

You are absolutely right. Communication, marketing, and an understanding of math, business, or the industries are all important things you can learn in school. It is not just about whether you can draw pretty pictures. You need to be able to run yourself as a business unless you go the corporate path. Even then you will need to be able to communicate well.

As far as the rest of the comments above.....It does not matter where you study as long as you STUDY.

I am a Prez of two companies. I am a high school drop-out and never finished with a college degree either. I did do six years of college though and would not be doing what I am doing without that. There are artists with no schooling, who are self learners, and they are doing just fine.

Coro's point is spot on. If you make your artwork great, it does not matter the path you take. Unless, you wish to teach and a degree is required, then it is of no matter. If you are a foriegn student you need a degree to work in this country as well. Do not think that Coro hasn't learned quite a bit about business, management, and the like on his own though. There is much to know about the field of art. If you can learn it for free on the internet. Great. If you need to go learn at a school...great. As long as you are learning and pushing you will do fine. Push to learn as hard as the most dedicated out there and you will go very far. You won't go anywhere without working hard on your art.

You will never be judged for attending a community college if your portfolio is strong.

Contrary to what madster suggests above, my best instruction came during community college. Schools will tell you they wont transfer classes or will review your work to see if you pass. I had no problems transferring in 58 credits to Ringling when I transferred. Though, I did have to gripe, put up a fight, and show proof that my work was as strong or stronger than the students coming from that same class in question. Other schools won't transfer jack even if the course at the CC is better instruction. Art Center would not let me transfer in. That is why I turned down their scholarships. Of course private art schools want as much money as they can get out of you, so expect it to be difficult to get them to take your credits.



jason

[hyde]

MONEY, and lots more of it. Just because you can do the things you do does not mean you will get a job in it. a degree will round your talents out more get you focused on other things and make you learn how to learn. But most of all MONEY. some, not all, but some companies will derive your pay by the amount of education you have. Its just as easy with or without a degree to get a job, but what if you decide you do not want to remain in the field you have chosen? A degree will help you go a lot farther.

[PolinaH]

Okay I didn't really read all those posts... I'm jsut gunna offer my opinion.

You can get a job without a degree if you really have good skills. I know I landed my first art job straight out of highschool (to make some money while I went to school) But People with an education usually make more money compaired to those that don't.

For Example:
Me with no degree, little experience...
I started at 10 an hour..

My co-worker with a BA, little no experience...
started 13 an hour


Why getting a degree helps:
1. You meet people that you network with that are in your field, so you instantly have a contact.
2. You fill in the gaps in your education. (I learned perspective mostly through books, but taking a class only helps explain some of the concepts I didn't understand to well.)
3. You have a degree, so if the jobs ever fall limited, you can always get a job teaching at a community college (all you need is a BA.)
4. Like I said above you usually start at a higher rate of pay
5. Achieved a personal goal. (a college education)
6. People take you more seriously (My manager always treated me as if I never new what I was talking about, but when someone who had a degree said the same thing, he listend.)

those were my 2 cents

[el coro]

MONEY, and lots more of it. Just because you can do the things you do does not mean you will get a job in it. a degree will round your talents out more get you focused on other things and make you learn how to learn. But most of all MONEY. some, not all, but some companies will derive your pay by the amount of education you have. Its just as easy with or without a degree to get a job, but what if you decide you do not want to remain in the field you have chosen? A degree will help you go a lot farther.

absolutely incorrect. in other fields, science, programming, math stuff, biz stuff, marketing...YES you need a degree. employers will look at it and it actually holds a lot of weight. i have heard that the difference in annual salary between a programmer who has a ba in computer science and one who doesnt is about 50k a year.
but i assure this is not the case in entertainment art. as long as your portfolio is good, you can take direction and are able to deliver on time you are golden. and these formentioned traits are more common sense based, meaning things you shouldnt really need to go to school to learn them. because if you want to goto art school to learn common sense, well you are going to be in for a big let down.-c36

[Blahm]

degrees are for pussies. j/k

I will be going the self taught route. I was never very impressed with schools. But I still have problems with authority so...

[princeofhappiness]

My opinion is that attending college to do art enables you to experience art within a community that is creative. You will meet and interact with people who are creative in their own ways, with their own styles, and see how they work, and their viewpoints on art. You will learn from each other. I believe experience in an enthusiastic, devoted art community of excited students and tutors is very beneficial. Its also a great way of knowing wether youre cut out for it.

Anyway, this is what i heard. I hope its true. Cant wait tho. :confident

[jblack]

Hey all,

Just wanted to drop my 2 cents in.

I have a B.A. in Fine Arts from Arizona State University.
When I graduated I wanted to be a artist for Visual FX. you know working on Star Wars or a movie like the Matrix.
The University did not prepare me to get a job like that. Meaning my portfolio was more fine arts than it was entertainment arts.

So after graduation I was sitting there thinking what did I waste 4 years on!
So I spent a year preparing a portfolio for the video games industry, thru a friend I got in.

That was 3 years ago. From my very first project to now I realize what those 4 years I invested was for.

The Fundamentals(Basic Color Theory,Anatomy,Basic Perspective,mixed medias.etc)

Work Ethics(learning how to finish assignments while juggling school and other classes,Learning how to work with other people on group assingments)

Discipline(Finishing work and getting it to a status for presentation, keeping a sketchbook,etc)

(just cause people had brought this course up)Public Speaking courses(being able to conduct a meeting with a client and not say" uh" every other word, being able to properly communicate your ideas)

Being and Artist is one thing, but being a working Artist with these skills can determine how far you will go in your career.

Some people naturally have these skills or develop them, dont' get me wrong. But it's not all about picking up a pencil there are other skills that help you to become a Professional too.

I have seen some portfolios from schools like A.I. and Full Sail and seen others from University . Both good and bad but it was the Student and how Hungry He or She was that made it excellent.

Also if you have a Typography course, learn what you can from it. The more skills you have the more you can bargain with in getting a job. You never know how it can affect your art also.

All this has been based on my own experience too.
I don't regret not going to the University but I realize what I did learn and what I needed to gain(Fine Arts didn't expose me to the process of entertainment art).

eventually the real school will be on the job. Art and Music are skills that take essentially a life time of practice. Having the right start always helps.

[Chingwa]

OK a little reality check.

1) there is more to school than preparation for a career.
2) there is more to art than knowing how to render folds in cloth or a facial expression.
3) there is more to life than a job.
4) THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN ART.
5) Don't let your past experiences hinder your future ones.
6) Don't overlook the present in anticipation of the future.

Don't get tunnel visioned into thinking a degree is something worth working for. It's only a piece of paper that says you did the required work. nothing more. In effect it's worthless. What is important is the experience you can gain from a 4 year program, or the experience you can gain from a community college course, or the experience you can gain from busting your ass until 2 in the morning every night on your own. You don't gain anything by going through the motions in order to rely on a piece of paper. Rely on yourself, and you will go far.

There are infinite more resources available to you now then even a few short years ago. Use them.