struggling with getting a decent likeness

[omarpac]

hey everyone
as the title says am havin a hard time achieving a good likeness
i can get the likeness better in 3/4 view or profile but when its a full face mistakes always happen like loopsidedness for example
what are ur tips for getting a likeness
and how can i get my portraits right :rolleyes:

[Rascar Capac]

I think the most important thing to nail after plotting out the shape of the head is the upside-down triangular shape formed by the eyes and the nose....once you have that traingle established - and the distance between the eyes and between the nose are correct.. you'll have an easier time gaging the rest of the features...

at least thats what I try to do...

my problem is the 3/4...

[Kenny_Callicutt]

post some of your portait work and we can better assist you.

[nafa]

Sounds like you need to try harder. If you can tell already that the face is lopsided, isn't the obvious cure to make it more symmatrical. If there is a problem with feature placement, then you need to check your measurements.

[Elwell]

Are you using construction lines or going straight to finished features?

[dark pop toy]

can you post some examples??

[J.Mac]

it would be much easier for everyone to give you an effective crit and help if you post something you are working on.

-Jesse

[britt]

You can never be too good to not measure. There are a number of ways to apply this....plum lines, object relation, comparing angles, negative space and so on. Don't forget construction. After you understand the necessary tools for drawing it is just a matter of practice. Good Luck

[omarpac]

thanks a lot for the comments guys
i will try posting some examples in a short time so plz stay tuned
i dont really grasp that triangle thing can u plz elaborate more on it|???!?!?

[Dizon]

hey everyone
as the title says am havin a hard time achieving a good likeness
i can get the likeness better in 3/4 view or profile but when its a full face mistakes always happen like loopsidedness for example
what are ur tips for getting a likeness
and how can i get my portraits right :rolleyes:

Its simple mate, keep checking your measurements. Even the slightest mistake in the measurements can ruin a drawing esp a portrait. BUT, I dont want you to be dependent on it. Train your eye to judge your own measurements. Only measure if you have doubts.

[Rascar Capac]

thanks a lot for the comments guys
i will try posting some examples in a short time so plz stay tuned
i dont really grasp that triangle thing can u plz elaborate more on it|???!?!?

I can't post a drawing at this point but ... look in the mirror:
If you draw a line from the edge of your left eye (or eye socket) to the edge of your right eye and then cut across diagonally down to the bottom of the nose then back to the left eye ...it forms a triangle...
and depending on who's portait you're drawing... the triangle will have a slightly different shape..and that slight difference is a bid deal in getting a likeness.

hope that was a bit clearer

[dbclemons]

Getting an exact likeness is tough for every artist, especially those who have to be consistent, like comic artists or animators. Getting the relative proportions correct is a key factor. Look closely at the shape of the eyes, jaw line, lips, and the relative size of one element to another. A good tip is to isolate a part of the face and see what makes it look unique, for example hold your hand or a piece of paper over the top of the head or side of the face.

-David

[omarpac]

so to get this straight
i draw an inverted triangle with the base's tips touchin the "middle of the eyes"and the apex poin touchin the nose?
this shape ofcourse varies in width and height from person to person
well i will try that
i still didnt fix the scanner

[omarpac]

o sorry now i saw it the edge
is it the inner or outer edge?

[Geuseppe]

Let's see some of your work.

[Rascar Capac]

I meant Outer...
but PLEASE remember that this is just ONE method of many...(Im sure you know that - but still...)
best way is too draw portraits from life or magazines, etc...over and over and over....and to train your eye to see and judge distances correctly.

[theincredibleandy]

personally I don't think the triangle thing is a key to likeness. Proportions maybe (to get structure), but I think likeness is about shape dominance in a face. Train yourself to see the hierarchy of information in someone's face, the dominant, sub-dominant, and subordinate shapes of face. Every face is different, so I don't know anyone can claim to have a formula for capturing the essence of a person. Even measuring or tracing can go awry, since many photos of people don't look much like them (if a photo can't always do it then tracing won't solve your problems. Ultimately I think that capturing a likeness is a matter of "making sense" out of someone's face. It involves emphasizing (or "exaggerating") the important details and leaving out the unimportant ones. Your 3/4 drawings probably get better likenesses because you can understand the form better when details aren't flattened out or missed from the straight on mug shot. Likewise it's harder to get proportions because you have to think more three-dimensionally. It's tough.

Now show us some drawings!

[omarpac]

heres a sketch i did recently of a friend
tried to add a little attitude to it
IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/omarpac/mendo.jpg[/IMG]

[omarpac]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/omarpac/mendo.jpg

[omarpac]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/omarpac/SkelatolWeb.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/omarpac/shagrath.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/omarpac/ScreamWeb2.jpg

[Dizon]

heres a sketch i did recently of a friend
tried to add a little attitude to it
IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/omarpac/mendo.jpg[/IMG]

I've seen your portrait drawings so Im gonna try give some advice.

There's no doubt that there are mistakes in measurements and proportions. Also, your shading is very careless. But I want to focus on getting accurate proportions first. Always keep this in mind, work from the general to the specific. Get down the BIG shapes first then the smallest details later. Work from the BIG/obvious shadow masses to the lightest light. Simplification is the key, all the intricate details come last. Now, for you to get an accurate representation of the sitter, getting a good outline/contour is the first step. Its obvious that even a slight mistake on the outline can ruin your drawing. You know how people say, "start by sketching an oblong shape for the head"? Well, personally, I dont believe in that crap. What I want you to do is, look for the lines and its differing angles that make up the outline of your subject. This is how you will be able to simplify your subject into its simplified shape. When I say lines, I mean, straight lines, not curved lines. A curved line is actually made up of a number of these straight lines, in the end, it gives the impression that it is curved. Also, these lines have their own direction/angle. They all connect to form/unify the shape. Think of "connecting dots", notice how your going from one point to another in a staright line. Doing this is also a great excercise for developing your eye and brain. Because I want you to judge measurements everything by eye as much as possible. Only try and measure if you have doubts. A lot of artists are good at this. Anyway, I hope you understand, but try and take the time to comprehend all this. Ill just post more later on. Goodluck.

BTW try as much as possible to work from actual living subjects, not photos. Its important for you to have a sense of 3 dimensionality the living subject gives. Right now, your drawings look very flat and not convincing as a 2d representation of 3d subject matter.

[J.Mac]

yes patdzon has said many things that i was thinking about, you need to nail proportion first, get the right placement of the masses and the correct head shape/hair mass and it should look like your subject without even putting any features on. if you can do that the rest is easy. also when you are going to measure do it 2 or 3 times before you make a mark just so you don't get to hairy and make mess, and i mean like don't run over a line you did 10 times and then make it messy, b/c doing that will make the shape awkward and hard to read. keep working at it and good luck!

-Jesse

p.s. - try and make your images alittle smaller if you can next time they just seem to be really large in dimension, i can see it fine but not every one uses high resolution on their monitors.

[omarpac]

so i shud get the shape right before i put the features right
but somehow when i draw i dont see my mistakes any ideas how can i check my drawings?

[Dizon]

so i shud get the shape right before i put the features right
but somehow when i draw i dont see my mistakes any ideas how can i check my drawings?

look at your drawing through a mirror. you'll be surprised at what youll see. Also, do not be too close to your drawing while youre working on it, cuz thats how usually people dont notice their mistakes. Stand back from your work for a while to assess what's happening with it.

[J.Mac]

the mirror is a great idea and tool to help see things you didn't before as patzdon has already said. try turning your drawing upside down and looking at in a mirror. doing that will really show you if you are in perspective and if you have correct proportions, also step away from you draw periodically so you can see it as a whole drawing and not just a part of it. being to close will make you loose your relationships from one element to another.

-Jesse

[omarpac]

i see thanks for that
shud i erase my mistakes or leave them as is
so i shud know what mistakes i do

[J.Mac]

experiment and have fun, it is a trial and error process really. see what works and what doesn't so then you can really know why you do certain things and not others just b/c some one said you should do it this way doesn't mean it is correct. granted there are things that hepl that everyone does, but that is besides the point i am trying to make. so have fun and draw!

-Jesse

[omarpac]

arrggghhhhh this self portrait ive been at it for a long time
am trying really hard
look hear is what i came up with
i shud draw the features separately
like the nose and eyez ,lips ears each one separate
then try it at a full self portrait

[Rascar Capac]

Not sure what you meant there...but maybe this will help:

When drawing the head, think like a sculptor...remembering the skull underneath...

Dont just plant features...this will make it look very flat.

Think 3D

Lots of good advice here..especially Patzon's suggestion of using straight lines for the head shape
Richard Schmid also suggests this method for starting his portraits...so you know it works...

[Dizon]

arrggghhhhh this self portrait ive been at it for a long time
am trying really hard
look hear is what i came up with
i shud draw the features separately
like the nose and eyez ,lips ears each one separate
then try it at a full self portrait

no, dont do that. Just try and stick to our advice. Be sure to be at a decent distance so you can see your subject( its you in this case) wholly. Like your drawing, dont be too close to it while working. Try being atleast 5 feet away from the mirror, if your doing a self portrait.

Try out what I just said on a simple object, like a fruit or go to complex ones like people sleeping or reading, etc. and take your time.

[Ninja Kinshu]

please for the love of ninja, resize those pictures!

[omarpac]

those are a few sketches i did


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/omarpac/durerdrapery.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/omarpac/omar001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/omarpac/omarah.jpg



am sorry i cant make the image sizes smaller

[ZapRadon]

Actually, they look pretty accurate.

'Likeness' seems to have more to do with whatever distinctive features people notice first. Try going out and drawing people in coffee shops and stuff. I like musicians, personally..they stay put longer. Draw the first thing you notice as fast as possible. Amazingly, it takes very little information for people to recognize people. The first thing you notice is the same thing everyone else notices too.

I've had total strangers look at a sketch with not much more than an eye and a nose and go "hey, that's so-and-so!"

[Flynt]

Hi omarpac, :blahblah:

I have done my share of portraits and have taught the subject as well.

During that time I pondered what is the most important thing to look for? Structure? Proportion? The features? The skull? The eyes, etc? I finally decided it has to all be correct.

There is certainly not one correct process. Thought I would share how I get started. Hope it is useful.

First I don't think 3D (that comes later) I use tick marks and set up a couple of height relationships. Only a few, probably no more than 6.

In the beginning some of these are just guesses. I use comparative measuring and keep relating the heights until I feel I can't do any better.

Next still thinking 2-D (image tracing through a sheet of glass) I block in large shapes again not too many. Let your height ticks, plum lines and comparative measuring guide the placement of these shapes.

Relate all the tilts (lines) that make up those shapes back to one single tilt that is obvious (continue to use this as a constant).

You should know by now if it has the character of the person.

Now thinking mainly 2-D but also a little 3-D (begin to consider that you are actually drawing form and structure) begin to draw line segments in a point to point fashion (Keep checking tilts, shapes, plum lines and comparative measuring) and search out the contour of the entire head, the contours of the overlapping structures from your view point, and the terminator edge (shadow edge). Get those shadow edges right or they will change the structure of what you are drawing. They also act as a cross contour explaining the form and structure.

Lightly shade in all the areas that are true shadow.

Refine those lines thinking 3-d or structurally. Think in terms of mass.

Get all those and you should see a definite likeness and have a great linear map to follow.

Now there's the rendering but I will leave off there. That’s a whole other can of worms.

Again, not the only way but It has been working constantly for me for some time now.

I have included a couple of images I happened to have on my computer showing some intermediate images of a cast drawing (never completed) working in this way. Perhaps they will be helpful. I raised the contrast a bit so they would be easier to view. The upper left areas are the most advanced in each.

Good luck,

-Flynt

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/9838/samplecast28ym.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/7629/samplecast37ym.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Flynt]

Ahh, found this one on the hard drive. :^^:

I think it is more appropriate.

-Flynt
http://img284.imageshack.us/img284/5899/sampleportraitdrawing9qi.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[omarpac]

thanks a lot for the input flint
i will draw more portraits and post
em goin along with ur line of advice

[omarpac]

i really like ur shading on the cast drawing
wud u plz tell me how u achieved that
u know its soo smooth
do u use the tip or side of the pencil?

[omarpac]

wooooooooooooooow man u are professional i just checked ur website
i want to be like u :bashful: :P
great stuff
cant wait for the demonstrations section to open