How do I paint?

[Boogieman]

Hey all, first post.

I draw alot, and with the help of Loomis and all the insight you guys share on this site I've managed to become decent at it. Now I really want to move on to (analogue) painting. I got a basic set of "designer" gouache paints (opaque white, yellow ochre light, primary yellow, primary red, primary blue, ivory black), two brushes and some paper, but I don't know what to do with them. I tried painting some still life today (first day, first try), starting with a value study in pencil and moving on to fill in the colors just to realize - I suck. I don't know shit about brushtechnique and I don't know shit about how to blend my colors or how to dillute them to make them behave like I want. So I thought you guys could help me.

If you got some thread that I missed you can direct me too that'd be just super. Otherwise I'm looking for tips on books and online resources on the practical side of painting; not just color theory - altho I probably need that too. Maybe some of ya'll who went to art school can share some painting excercise that helped you improve? Anything really, I need your help.

Thanks.

[Sinix]

Hi, welcome to the boards, boogieman.

I'm curious as well about the basics of painting. I've never touched paints before, and I feel like it is time to try. I don't even know what EXACTLY gouache or acrylics and whatever else are or any idea on how to use them properly... I might just have to suck it up and take a class or something. I just wanna see if I can get as much info on the technical side of things, the tools, techniques, proper care, etc.

Someone point me in the right direction.

[Steinmetz]

have you got canvas?

for as start you draw your picture in charcoal then wipe it down and go over it in burnt umber, wait for it to dry then start dry brushing in the colour then once that is done go over it in "wet" colour. Then oil in and re-paint the highlights then varnish it then put it in a gallery, it's just that simple really!! :}

[Sinix]

I personally was looking to do the type of sketchbook speedpaintings that I have sometimes seen people do. What type of paints are best for that type of thing? I think el coro uses... acryclics? But, like I said, I don't know anything about what they are or how to use them properly. If anyone could do or point me toward a simple and basic tutorial on using them, that'd be great.

I'm looking to run to the art store as soon as I can find out what all is needed, any recommendations would be nice.

[Steinmetz]

uhh! I suppose I'll have to be your guide since noone else will.

Acrylics are fast drying paints yes, and they would be best for this speedpainting that you want. You need, at least 6 basic colours to start with, 3 types of brush and what else do you need to know?

[Boogieman]

What would make a good basic palette in gouache, acrylics and oils respectively? Are the pigments used to make oil paint like e.g. Cadmium Yellow or Ultramarine Blue also used to make acrylics, gouache and watercolors and, if so, are these colors as essential in a gouache palette as they seem to be in an oil palette? My palette right now (gouache) is made of the three primary colors and yellow ochre light plus opaque white and ivory black. Does this sound like a good starting point or should I buy some new tubes to get a palette more like the one recommended here (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17837)?

Since last post I've been messing around with my colors blending and dilluting them in different ways to see what effects can be achieved. And also I stretched some paper on cardboard and did a few washes, just to get a feel for it. Tonight I'm gonna do some scales (that's what it's called right?), choosing one hue and taking it from light to dark. Seems the only way to get better at this is practice.

Anyway. Still looking for usefull tips on how to improve my technique.

[MadSamoan]

Typically, the pigments made for oil colors are the same used in watercolor, pastel, guoache, etc..

The palette of colors you have is just fine. Here are some condensed note transcripts of Fred Fixler's (a master with guoache).

http://www.nasonart.com/writing/fixlerpainting.html

Guoache isn't really a medium for blending. You get the effect of blending by placing gradating tones next to one another. It's almost a paint by number look when you look at it up close. You want to create 'tiles' of color and look at each paint passage as a shape, or pool of color. And there is no diluting the colors, guoache is an opaque medium. If you didn't like how something turned out, let it dry and paint right over it like it never existed.

It's a great medium. It's compact and portable and you can paint in areas that would be prohibitive for oil painters because you don't have to deal with solvents or the setup and clean up time that oil paint has.

Check out Robert Mcginnis or John Berkey to see the full potential of guoache.

[Boogieman]

When I said blending what I meant was mixing, and when I said dilute I meant mixing in some water to make the paint easier to apply (isn't that called diluting?). I'm sorry for the confusion, I should stop using words I don't know the meaning of. I'll blame it on english not beeing my first language :bashful:

Thank you very much for the tips and thanks for that link. Very good read. Checked out those artists too and they were both very good, I especially liked McGinnis. If you don't mind I got some more questions though.

I hear gouache colors aren't very lightfast and fade after a while. I was under the impression that lightfastness was dependant of the pigment, but you said that basically the same pigments where used to create many different kinds of paint. So is lightfastness determined by the paint ingridients as well as the pigment? And how much of a problem is fading in gouache? Will my painting disappear after two weeks?

Sorry for all the questions. I really need to find a book on the subject...

[pixelfingers]

Have you ever thought of trying oils?

There's a common theory that they're more difficult to use than water based paints - but I haven't found this to be the case. Once you get used to them there's far more leeway to keep a painting 'open' and correct mistakes. If you use thin glazes and mix the paint with varnish you can substantially reduce drying time.

I produced this pic of J Lennon using washes of oil (about 4-5 layers in total) on blank canvas. Each layer needs about 24 hours to dry.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/pixelfingers/popaaron2.jpg

I find that with water based media you're far more committed each time you put colour down. Oils you can keep moving around until you're happy. There are also several traditional methods of building up colour and paint... 'fat to thin' ... grounding... and blocking. It's a good idea to think these through and have a plan before you start.

[Boogieman]

I have thought of trying oils and I do intend to move on to oil painting eventually. I'm just starting to learn the basics of painting though and for this I chose gouache as my medium because, as MadSamoan said, I don't have to go through the hassle of solvents, setup and clean-up. Plus gouache is way cheaper. I will get some oils once I'm past supernoob-state.

What are those techniques you mentioned?
'fat to thin' ... grounding... and blocking.

That's a kickass painting btw.

[Chingwa]

OK I have a few tips for you on painting.

Tip #1: BE PATIENT. I can't stress this enough. Painting can be infinitely frustrating when you are first learning, just as it is infintitely gratifying to see yourself advance in it. A HELL of a lot more gratifying than drawing. eventually you'll come to see drawing as merely a building block of a painting. And it does take time and thought and patience for even an experienced painter to produce something they are happy with.

Tip #2: Know your Materials. Each type of paint behaves differently and you need to become familiar with the paint's attributes and how to work within them. Each type has it's own unique qualities/pros/cons etc. Watercolor is generally easiest to work with but it is rather unforgiving medium. Gouache is more forgiving than watercolor, but being an opaque medium you go about painting in a completely different fashion. Goauche is a great medium for sketch painting as it dries quickly and does not involve much ancillary materials... just brush/paper/and water. Oils is by far the most flexible yet can be involving and time consuming to work with. It all really comes down to how you intend to paint.

TIP #3: Observation. Train your eye to SEE light and color. as a civilian you walk around looking at thousands of objects a day. An ordinary object such as a pencil holds no extraordinary interest... you can see and understand it is a pencil without hardly even looking at it. as a PAINTER however, you must study every object you see for color... and more specifically the light that creates the color. Everyone knows a typical pencil is yellow, but a painter knows the colors that combine to give it that illusion. No object is flat.

TIP #4: A Book can't teach you to paint. What a book CAN do is show you how to work with paint and this is what you want to be looking for. Look for books that explain the steps and rational taken in a painting. for now keep it limited only to the medium you are actually painting with. A book on oil is not going to be very beneficial to you in learning to paint in gouache... in fact it will only frustrate you because the process behind the mediums are so different.

TIP #5: PAINT PAINT PAINT. Practice is a crappy word, so I won't use it.

Only when you understand what you want to paint, know how to use the medium and are patient enough to make mistakes and learn will you be able to get results you are happy with. But don't worry, it doesn't take long. If this is something you're serious about at all, you will find yourself advancing pretty quickly. Now stop reading this board and go paint.

[Steinmetz]

As pixlefingers said "If you use thin glazes and mix the paint with varnish you can substantially reduce drying time". I find also that if you simply dry brush the entire painting it can create a better finish than varnishing. I don't know why you've got this phobia of not using fast drying paints acrylics dry too fast in my opinion to change the picture later.

[pixelfingers]

Fat to thin is a description of a traditional way of building up colour and tone. The first few layers tend to be darker in tone and laid in thicker strokes. As you work towards the finish the glazes become lighter and more transparent. This is not the only way to do it - and the 'rules' are not strict - rather a general way of working.

Blocking in is part of this process, where the initial structure of the picture is but into place. Areas of dark and medium tone are roughly 'blocked in' and left to dry for further working. Detail is added in each successive pass (if you think of how a progressive JPEG scan looks, each pass adding definition).

Grounding is a technique where a medium tone of colour (usually a warm brown or pink - but can be anything depending on what you want to achieve) is laid down and left to dry before any other painting happens. This has the effect of providing a common base colour throughout the picture which helps harmonise the subsequent colours.

These are not 'rules' mearly techniques to achive a certain style and look in your work. I would try a few different methods and go with what feels right. There are as many styles and techniques as there are subjects. My advice would be to enjoy learning and don't let the medium intimidate you. Be ambitious and have fun with it. As with all creative skills - if you feel frustrated... practice. You will have breakthroughs!

[tensai]

if you get lost the first times its also not a bad idea to start off by painting monochrome. leave the colors for a while and just paint with values. youll learn to see how surfaces recede and come forward when you change your values instead of having to worry about color and value. you will also be able to focus on hard and soft edges this way.

if you dont like black/white/grey, you could also mix burnt sienna with pthalo blue (1:1) and add white for your different values.

have fun,

tensai

[Boogieman]

Thanks guys for the advice, you're very helpful. I did have a breakthrough today :) My sketches are starting to look okay and I can now render round shapes decently keeping a more or less unchanged chroma and hue throughout. I'll probably give still life another go tomorrow or the day after. If it turns out okay I'll post it here.

Steinmetz: It's not a phobia. I'd like very much to paint in oils sooner or later but right now I'm busy with gouache.

PS. To anybody else in my position. These notes on gouache (http://www.productionpost.com/gouache-article-1.htm) are really worth checking out.

[MadSamoan]

I hear gouache colors aren't very lightfast and fade after a while. I was under the impression that lightfastness was dependant of the pigment, but you said that basically the same pigments where used to create many different kinds of paint. So is lightfastness determined by the paint ingridients as well as the pigment? And how much of a problem is fading in gouache? Will my painting disappear after two weeks?
...

Lightfastness is based on the pigment.The "designer colors" for guoache are made for graphic designers and commercial artists and typically they aren't considered 'lightfast'. This doesn't mean they'll immediately start fading though. It just means any artwork you do with them will have about the same lifespan of say a magazine stored in normal conditions or artwork done with markers. It takes years if not decades for it to show any signs of deterioration. It would take prolongued exposure to the sun's uv's for the artwork to start aging prematurely. If the guoache says 'artist grade' or something similar then it would mean they're more lightfast than the 'designer' gouache.