Robot holding a doo-hicky

[N.U.K.E.E]

Just an assignment for school. Btw the object is just a modeled version of my logo for http://rustywidget.com .
Let me know what you think.

http://rustywidget.com/files/file_temp/portfolio-design_cover-page_illustration01-04.jpg

[foster]

way cool! some of the blurred edges do not make sense to me and thus distract. the bot is cool and so is the widget, but all widgets are cool.

jon

[KayCustomz]

That robots looks to me like it is holding a bomb and will destroy whatever...then again I seem to think that its the size of my thumb ( maybe the background is cuasing that) ...overall I like it

[N.U.K.E.E]

Thanx man. About the edges thou, I do have trouble with them. My instructor at school tells us to soften edges as a means to control visual pathways and the focal point of an image. I'm just wondering if I should always follow the rule of depth of field or can I get away with softening edges inside and out of the DOF. I really don't know, edges and the treatment of them has confused me for awhile.

Btw Foster.........YOU DA MAN!!!!, I think your work is amazing, and to have you replying to my post makes me feel all fuzzy inside :p

[foster]

thanks!

i think your instructor is right but when you manipulate your edges try to form your own cohesive method. so maybe instead of having the bottom of the barrel so blurry i would have started with the very bottom of the widget and the antenna extension then moved up the widget gradually getting harder edges. this can and does serve as i kind of visual pointer to the areas of interest, like the robot. i think the still needs to be a kind of hierarchy that you set up with your own rules. but just remember that we all innately understand aerial perspective or depth of field so how are you going to manipulate that so that it serves your purposes. that is where the art and ingenuity lie. well, that and that awesome robot you just designed!

jon

[Imp Head]

Edges are a tricky thing to deal with. One thing that your should always keep in mind when dealing with the crispness of an edge is the fact that we humans deliniate the shape of things by their edge. It's why those crazy "can see a dalmation in a bunch of spots" and the "see the square but only the corners are drawn" images work.

If you want to follow your instructors suggestion and use the blurriness of an edge to direct your eye, I would first establish the hierarchy of the elements of your piece and then assign "blurriness" to the edges of the objects, in greater amounts as they descend in order of importance. For instance your robot and widget, I would consider the most improtant parts of your image. They are, for all intents and purposes, the subject of your image so they should also be the focal point of the image. By giving them the sharpest edges you've allowed the viewer to interpret their shapes with the greatest ease and they will therefore spend the most of time looking at the robot and widget.

However, for my money I'm not too fond of the edge trick. The same hierarchy can be established using color, saturation and size relation without sacrificing the ability of the viewer to focus on any one object more than the other. In fact blurry edges tend to give me a headache more than anything else.

All that aside. I do agree with Jon. Nice robot! What app did you create this in?

Brian

[N.U.K.E.E]

OOOOOHHH...(light goes on in head). I see exactly what you mean now, and it is confusing now that I see it. With what I've done the bottom antenna has been pushed forward making for a really warpy looking object. Thanks for explaining that :) I'll have to pay more attention next time.

*edit*
I made him in max5, mostly with primitives, and thanx brian. It's nice to hear other illustrators take on the whole edge technique. My instructor I think is a little gung-ho about it. He's really fond of playing around with edges and the economy of drawing. He's an ink rendering buff and likes how only a few lines or shapes can indicate something. My instructors name is Bob berger, probably haven't heard of him but he is amazing. Showed us this painting once, one of the few times he does (doesn't want to crush the students hope), and I swear it was done with less then 50 strokes :xx:

[foster]

well brian is right to a degree. but color and saturation is a trick as well and should be played in rhythm with the soft edges. soft, that is a better word. the blurring effect is obvious and not natural to how we perceive the world outside of a camera and shutter speed. think more on how a painter interprets edges to manipulate the flow in a painting.

we see things as shape first, later we learn how to interpret an object by line, which is an abstraction, a symbol for where an object ends and something else starts. but all of it is light reflecting back to us in various colors, diffusion and intensity. We do not perceive a room all in the same degree of sharpness. In fact we only see a small area of it in any degree of detail but our brain helps piece things together and fill in gaps. We function just fine without every external visual stimulus hitting us at once. As a matter of fact that is where we can allow our imagination to run wild. Some times for the worse, you know "what was that I just saw crawling around in the periphery of my vision".

perhaps it is the megalomaniac in me but i am not a fan of everything being of the same level of render. i like to subtlety push the viewers into seeing what i feel is important. i am not sure that the chair in the background needs to have the same edges in other words.

Brian is quite right about color and saturation. all of these things can be termed as tricks but they are actually tools in your workbox to get the best job done and to your satisfaction.

jon

[azjohnl]

Nice stuff, I think Jon gave you some great pointers.
I really like the robots head and neck design, will be an awesome character to animate!

[N.U.K.E.E]

This is good stuff :)

Yeah, I think it's importatnt to be aware of these tools whether you use them or not. Like my instructor says "it's these small things that makes the difference between a good drawing and an exceptional drawing."

Funny somewhat related story:
This past summer I worked night shifts as a stock clerk, and for the first week I don't think I slept a wink. Towards the end of the week my mother actually asked me to quit because she said I was going all wierd and creepy. I think it was on the friday, I was getting all freaked out because my mind was playing tricks on me. I kept seeing these little lanky creatures fluttering around in my peripheral vision. Yeah...that was trippy.

[Imp Head]

soft, that is a better word. the blurring effect is obvious and not natural to how we perceive the world outside of a camera and shutter speed. think more on how a painter interprets edges to manipulate the flow in a painting...

So what you're saying is we as illustrators don't have to put in the same amount of detail into every single element that's on the painting in front of us to represent said elements?

If this is the case then I agree fully. In fact I believe very strongly in the idea that the imagination is far stronger than the visual. We make a better statement the more we "rough" in the non-essential parts.

However if you're suggesting that it makes a stronger piece to soften certain edges to create a sense of hierarchy then I not only disagree but challenge you to produce an image in which you used this technique!

I think because the brain interprets the shapes it sees by the edges or outlines (As do most animals. This is why Tigers and zebras are striped.) when we illustrate we tend to a hard line to move the eye because it makes a stronger graphic statement.

Anyway NUKEE, we could go on and on like this all day, (Artists tend to do that... You should see us after a couple of beers;) But the thing to remeber is again, like Jon said. These "tricks" are all just tools at your disposal. Your job is to learn which ones to use and how to best use them to get the best results for the art you're trying to create.

Brian

[foster]

challenge brian!? what’s up big man. this is not some proving ground of manhood but a place for learning. no idea has precedent over any other. it is how well it helps our creations come across.

But in fact what I was saying was exactly what you questioned. "So what you're saying is we as illustrators don't have to put in the same amount of detail into every single element that's on the painting in front of us to represent said elements?" but also soft edges in conjunction with medium and hard edges, every kind of edge play a roll in this.

Take a look at Sargent, this is what I am speaking of. You can look at any one of my paintings, successful or not and see a certain hierarchy of edges. Granted I am no Sargent and some are too subtle to probably be of notice at times. But I think we are circling around the same truth here. Soft edges is just part of a larger tool kit.

I like your work! I like the way you put in everything, but it is not the only way to work. that is all that should be read from what I have written.

jon

[Imp Head]

challenge brian!? what’s up big man. this is not some proving ground of manhood but a place for learning. no idea has precedent over any other. it is how well it helps our creations come across.

I'm just giving you the what for Jon, not meant to be a formal thing. I really do believe, like I said, that whatever gets the job done for any artist is the best way to do things.

However, we learn by questioning. The back and forth of a hearty discussion on the merits of this way or that, (complete with challenges;) ) is, I think, a great way to offset the dictitorial instruction found in most classrooms.

Now, get back in front of that easal or I'm going to haul you back to the Science Museum and show you my Gestalt.

Brian

[Oblio]

You cats... behave :D
Come on - make a colab pic to bound your friendship.






This space is reseved for "Imp Foster Head" picture!





:chug:

Oblio

[MindCandyMan]

:huh: This is a really interesting discussion...I like it.

sweet robot design N.U.K.E.E ...it's really cool! Do some more!

[Tedsuo]

Heh, feel funny chiming in after the bigwigs here, but something importatnt to note since your piece is in 3d:

Painters can get away with varying edges the way they do because most of those edges can be created as a natural process during the painting. Your render is going to give you nothing but crisp edges, unless you apply depth of field or motion blur. Any post-effects or changes made by hand in photoshop are going to look incongrous with the other, non touched up parts of your render unless you are very careful (this is why the stool/block things around his feet look a bit wonky). So unless you're extremely careful and subtle or want to paint over the entire image, I would stick to depth of field and motion blur as your means of softening edges, and rely more on lighting and staging to create your visual pathways and focal points.

Just my two cents. :)

[N.U.K.E.E]

Thanx for all the replys guys, this has been pretty cool. Probably one of the few threads I've done thats gotten a response.

uhhh...no. I know I made a mistake when softening the widget by not starting at the bottom because it throws the perception of depth on it way off. But as far as sticking to DOF or motion blur for softening of edges just because it's 3d work, I don't think you have to. The 3d rough render is nothing more then my way of getting quick and accurate construction and lighting of a drawing. Afterwards I treat it like I would any other painting. One thing I'm trying to play with is the mixing amount of 3d and painting and graphic elements. This illustration probably sits at 70% 3d and 30% painting.

I seem to get the feeling every once in awhile that there's this taboo about mixing 3d and 2d mediums :P

[Cannibal80]

I just think the widget doesn't seem heavy enough. It's pretty big. Bigger than half the 'bot! And the bot doesn't seem to have any trouble lifting it...

Awesome pic overall though.

[N.U.K.E.E]

He's a robot, he can lift anything. And thanx man :)

I know what you mean thou, I could have exagerated the gesture more.

[mushuhaha]

I like his face. How come his right hand is so blurry?