ESRB Gives San Andreas the old AO

[0kelvin]

-- ESRB assigns "Adults Only 18+" (AO) rating for current version of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas due to unauthorized third party "Hot Coffee" modification
-- Rockstar Games to cease manufacture of current version of title and offer a downloadable patch to prevent modification of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas for PC
-- Company lowers third quarter and fiscal year guidance to reflect the expected negative impact on the title's retail performance

Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. (NASDAQ: TTWO) announced today that the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) has changed the rating of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas on all platforms from "Mature 17+" (M) to "Adults Only 18+" (AO) because of the so-called "hot coffee mod," an unauthorized third party modification that alters the retail version of the game. Take-Two cooperated fully with the ESRB's investigation.

Rockstar Games has ceased manufacturing of the current version of the title and will begin working on a version of the game with enhanced security to prevent the "hot coffee" modifications. This version will retain the original ESRB M-rating and is expected to be available during the Company's fourth fiscal quarter. Rockstar Games will be providing AO labels for retailers who wish to continue to sell the current version of the title.

As a result of the re-rating of the game, Take-Two is lowering guidance for the third fiscal quarter ending July 31, 2005 to $160 to $170 million in net sales and a net loss per share of $(0.40) to $(0.45) to provide reserves for the value of the title's current North American retail inventory. Accordingly, guidance for the fiscal year ending October 31, 2005 is also being lowered to $1.26 to $1.31 billion in net sales and $1.05 to $1.12 in diluted earnings per share.

Although Rockstar and Take-Two haven't handled the situation well, I don't think the ESRB did the right thing. From what I've seen of the content that was unlocked, it was hardly enough to warrant an AO. This seems more of a move to cover their own ass and to punish Rockstar, rather than giving the game the rating it deserves.

It could be a dangerous precedent.


0kelvin

[Denart]

OMG! They moved it from 17 to 18!!! A whole YEAR!!!

NOOES!!!! :(




(I think its incredibly stupid how a single year seperates a MATURE game from an ADULTS ONLY game. Dumb EsRB)

[dfacto]

Man, Rockstar should so this shit for every game. Free publicity, and in spades!

Also, why not just rate the games like movies? Most parents should understand that. If they let their kids into R rated movies, then they'll buy them R rated games. If not, then they won't.

[John]

I think it should have been rated AO in the first place. You get to gas people with a spray can? Blow their heads off? Cut them into pieces? Good. 18+.
Funny it takes the developer to put some other adult content in the game for it to get the rating it deserves. I mean it's easy: Stuff that can give younger people questionable ideas about life = adults only. The whole tone of the game shouldn't be available to anyone who's younger. Yet the only younger kids i see playing this game are the ones who should not, under any circumstances, play it. :nohope:

[Scubasteve]

I agree with John o. It should have had a AO rating in the first place. Kids have no business playing it. Dfacto, your right about parents, but the rating system isn't as specific as that in movies. I mean, the Getaway and Metal Gear Solid 2 both have M ratings, but content wise are WAY different.

[SexualSideFX]

Wait a minute, they changed the rating because of a fan-made mod?

[Sinix]

It's not fanmade, that was a story Rockstar made up.. which was proven to be wrong. The content is even hidden on the ps2 version.

The main difference with AO is that most major retailers have a policy to not carry AO stuff. So, the game won't be available at most places.

[Paralax]

Exactly.

And this is not about: "I can still get the game" or not.

This has major implications on the way the video-game industry will work in the future.

First off, the Hot Coffee mod was indeed found(though incomplete) in the original PS2 version, which means that they indeed had that part done, but they didn't release it. In the PC version, it only encourages modders.

This gives Anti-Game activists more power than ever before. They will keep pushing until you end up not even having blood in games. heh...crap.

Now, like they said, most retailers will REFUSE to sell AO games, after all how many times have you seen an AO Game at Best Buy, Wal-Mart or even EB for that matter? Never. And there ARE AO games but never for a game of such popularity, most other AO games are crappy ones nobody cares for....

This also implies that ESRB will have to loosen the boundary between M and AO, meaning more games will get it and you will be less likely to buy them. Not only that, prizes will probably go up since the games will be harder to acquire.

Thank you Hillary Clinton, you just ruined responsible gamer's life...lol

[Scubasteve]

Rockstar has been really pushing the limits on this issue I think. From what I understand about Manhunt, it should have had a AO rating due to the subject matter alone. Im all for adult videogames (by adult I don't mean XXX content) but content that is for an adult aduience, but even that should be tempered with taste and not simply to glorify violence. My 10year old goes to school and half of his peers own and play GTA3 and Vice City and talk about them at school. Parents are ignorant about what are in these games, You can bet he wont be playing them at home though.

It IS up to parents to keep games like this out of the hands of their kids, but when you have games like Metal Gear and The Getaway & GTA all with the same rating, it can be confusing for them.

[John]

Paralax, that's the way it's been in germany for quite a while. There was some fuzz about it, but things just went their way. There's still stores where you can get those games, and if not, you can order them if you want them. It helps keeping them out of reach of children. Didn't hurt me. Certainly won't hurt american kids either. I just hope they start taking violence as serious as sexual content.

[jfwalls]

So is there any way to access the stuff in the PS2 version?

[Floris Didden]

I just wanted a video game, not eternal damnation in hell. (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ticket_to_hell)

[oracrest]

OK, this is a perfect example of some stupid political irony. Let me break this down:

16: The age at which most Americans can legally have sex (http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm)

17: the age at which someone needed to used to be to be able to play a game that, when cracked, gave access to witnessing of virtual sex.

18: the new age at which someone needs to be to do this.

[SJ Bennighof]

I just wanted a video game, not eternal damnation in hell. (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ticket_to_hell)

"You are gazing into the pixels of moral decay."

:perv:

[John]

And what terrifying pixels they are. Hide your anatomy books kids, things are getting ridiculous.

[Paralax]

Paralax, that's the way it's been in germany for quite a while. There was some fuzz about it, but things just went their way. There's still stores where you can get those games, and if not, you can order them if you want them. It helps keeping them out of reach of children. Didn't hurt me. Certainly won't hurt american kids either. I just hope they start taking violence as serious as sexual content.

I understand Germany has a No Blood Rule since forever, but there is a very diffirent way of life in Europe than it is in the U.S. I know this for a fact.

The U.S. people(No offense, insult or negative comment intended) are very emotional, but only when it comes to what involves them(there's always exceptions, remember). Hence why they are incredibly patriotic, ''never leave a man behind'' and why they cling a lot to their values of freedom and the ''American Dream'' which is not bad for the most part.

But, why do I go to this? Well, the problem is, the U.S. can react in different ways than a German does. Like I said, it is not so much at the age that you get them, but the concept behind banning these games.

You begin with making a single game AO, that's the first step, the catalyst. Next thing you know, heavy restrictions are placed upon the videogaming industry in the U.S. which is right now the largest one(they surpassed japan a few years ago). If you restrict the development of games in the major producing country, then you affect the sales, production and development of games around the globe. All because a couple of senators would be benefitted with this for their political campaign(not to say they are bad senators or persons, though).

True. We have a responsibility as people to properly choose what content to play or experience. In the case of parents, they have a responsibility to restrict content THEY consider unappropriate for THEIR children.

Also, remember that the ESRB rating is not supposed to be a LIMITANT. It is supposed to be the suggested age to play the game for MOST audiences. Just like a movie with an R rating, which a 5 year old can go into, as long as they have an adult to watch over them.

Yes indeed, in the movie you watch a person kill another person, and the game puts you in the role of PULLING the trigger for yourself. Heck, some games, like GTA, -encourage- you to do so.

Here's the important part to me. I am not against violence or sex in games. I am not against violence or sex in movies either. I am against immature audiences experiencing these, but I am not against the content itself.

After all, Games and Movies are art, because they stimulate the human senses in some way. However, the point of art is to get a point across, and this point has to be ~productive~

Games like Metal Gear(all of 5-6 of them) literally have you slicing throats and shooting severla enemies, but in the end of the game, your very character ends up questioning his orders, and in the end there is a productive message(Nuclear and environmental, as well as informational censoring(MGS2).

GTA:SA? It has you kill other people, it encourages to do so, not for a greater good. Not for a righteous purpose, but for your own purpose. It is a selfish purpose. In fact, it has you undermining the law enforcing agencies, that the very country the game was developed in , appreciates and admires so much.

Don't get me wrong. The Game Design of GTA is brilliant. And dont get me wrong.... it is FUN. But not everything fun is productive or good.

I'll end this long post with a little questionable irony....

Why are games like GTA placed under the M-AO rating, games like MGS, games like splinter cell or R6....

When you also have games like America's Army and Medal of Honor as Teen? Some people wuld argue: "Because they have no Blood or Gore. Or Sexual/Drug content"

True indeed! But.... Blood doesn't make you more susceptible to comitting a crime. Sexual content in a game does not necessarily promote having promiscuous sex. Society does. Remember: These games would not be this way, if demand did not encourage their development. However, games like America's Army and Medal of Honor, would never be placed under the AO rating, even if they had blood. Or realistic gore. They would restrict its content to the general U.S. public, and the patriotic values in those games is what they want to spread. Yet, if it was Mature, people would allow their kids to play them, and they would play them regardless of age.

It's like drugs: Just because they are banned it doesn't mean people won't use them as much. In fact, people will use them much more, and they will STILL get the illegal product on their hands, REGARDLESS of age. But it will be underneath political noses.

[Prometheus|ANJ]

RE ^^^ Allow me to shoot off a knee jerk conspiracy theory: Americas Army is meant to indocrinate kids and make them into nice recruits, and that has to start at an early age so they made it Teen. Gotta keep that cannon fodder coming to the grinder.

/. has a number of rather lengthy discussions on the ESRB-GTA.SA debacle.

I kind of dislike ESRB, cuz they waste my time and bandwidth with their stupid logo, and they ruin the box covers by slapping on all sort of notices, and producers are 'forced' to tweak the content (possibly innovation) so it's sellable on Walmart etc.

Would be fun to see them rate H games though. D for Dickgirls, or L for Lolita, T for Tentacle monsters, R for ... well you get the idea...

[Paralax]

Fresh meet to the grinder.... true dat.

ESRB is in itself a good company, the problem is, when they have 3rd parties involved in it(Like *cough* senators) trying to force those ratings up their butts.

Like I said, it's supposed to be a warning, a guideline, not a friggin rule.

Take Music CD's and the Parental Advisory.

its a parental ADVISORY, not a PARENTS TAKE IT AWAY

[John]

Point is that most likely the parents never get a word in this. And while that's ok for some stuff, for some it's just not. I don't necessarily agree with the decisions on what is appropriate and what isn't. I don't think it'll destroy americas video game industry. I sure hope it doesn't. Of course, there are valid arguments that taking the games out of the store is a bad move, in that regard you're right.

In case of the new GTA though, it seems to me (my personal opinion) that it's geared towards younger guys, like 15, 16 year olds. Those are the ones who'd love to play the games. And they should not. On the other hand, i know 24 year olds who shouldn't. Game design wise it's fine, a little rough at the edges, but a nice game. But the content is problematic. I don't fear for my life because of it. I just think it has a tendency to make idiots behave like bastards. ;)

[Gezstar]

I think it should have been rated AO in the first place. You get to gas people with a spray can? Blow their heads off? Cut them into pieces? Good. 18+.
Funny it takes the developer to put some other adult content in the game for it to get the rating it deserves. I mean it's easy: Stuff that can give younger people questionable ideas about life = adults only. The whole tone of the game shouldn't be available to anyone who's younger. Yet the only younger kids i see playing this game are the ones who should not, under any circumstances, play it. :nohope:fuckin a. ok the sex is one thing, but i find the violence far more inappropriate for kids.

[Paralax]

Even though both are common subjects in our lives.

Its hilarious, really. They encourage us to do violence at times, yet they dislike sex.

The only reaosn why I say this is a political move, is because GTA got so popular and it became the #1 selling game. If it hadn't been GTA, it would have probably been Halo, or maybe Counter Strike.

One bird had to go down, one way or another. Hot Coffee mod only gave them the perfect tool to strike.

[0kelvin]

In case of the new GTA though, it seems to me (my personal opinion) that it's geared towards younger guys, like 15, 16 year olds. Those are the ones who'd love to play the games. And they should not. On the other hand, i know 24 year olds who shouldn't. Game design wise it's fine, a little rough at the edges, but a nice game. But the content is problematic. I don't fear for my life because of it. I just think it has a tendency to make idiots behave like bastards. ;)

You're saying at 15 or 16 you're not mature enough to handle a little sex and violence?! I was exposed to worse content at 9 or 10! I've killed hundreds of millions of virtual people, but I've never even had the urge to kill an actual person. Hell, I've hardly even hit someone before. People keep saying it's going to damage these kids, but how? Idiots always behave like bastards. You could make your kid watch nothing but Milo and Otis until they're 20 and they're still going to behave like a bastard if they're not raised properly. Okay, so in that 1 in a 300,000,000 chance that a kid decides to shoot up his school, he might have slightly better aim if he plays FPS's. He'll also be better at chasing down people with a machete if he takes gym class.

One thing's for certain, I doubt we have to worry about San Andreas inspiring all sorts of sexual escapades because I'm willing to bet 95% of the people who use the hot coffee mod have far less sex than the average person.



0kelvin

[John]

Sure you handled it, and i handled the stuff i could get as copies from friends on as well. I don't know if it's about being able to handle it. Remember the thread about the cat that nearly got eaten up by two pitbulls? That's the kind of people i'm thinking of. You don't give them a loan and you don't let them play with fire until they're old enough to be held responsible for the consequences.
I met some guys who thought it's cool to beat people up. They loved games like Wolfenstein and Mortal Kombat. The problem is not the violence in those games, the problem is that it's portrayed as the right thing to do. Stupid people like to believe those who say they're right, and that's what GTA says, most of all the latest. Even most Mafia movies question the ideas of the bad guys. I know it sounds stupid, but wait till you've met a number of those guys and talked with them. I didn't think it was a problem for a long time.

On a side note, I went shopping for cd's yesterday and the first thing i saw was a big counter with copies of San Andreas. Here in germany where Doom was taken from the shelves because you get to shoot humans (Zombies seem to count).


One thing's for certain, I doubt we have to worry about San Andreas inspiring all sorts of sexual escapades because I'm willing to bet 95% of the people who use the hot coffee mod have far less sex than the average person.

:teeth:

[flatliner]

You're saying at 15 or 16 you're not mature enough to handle a little sex and violence?! I was exposed to worse content at 9 or 10!

with the right up bringing, yes, kids can handle sex and violence (to a certain degree). The problem is when you get the ones that have completely no sense of moral values; of whats right and whats wrong; then it becomes a problem.

In the UK, it already has an 18+ rating, dos'nt it? at least mine does..

[darth massacre]

The point here isn't about what's socially acceptable in regards to sexual content.


The point is Rockstar is thinking with their arses. They left the content in there when its not supposed to. They didn't deem it important enough to inform ERSB and went ahead with an M rating. They are already sitting on a "hot" franchise. GTA is a game that a lot of politicians are targetting and its already raised enough eyebrows in the community that wants to take the fun out of developing video games.

The guy who did the mod basically just unlocked what was already there. Rockstar's dumbfuck decisions made ERSB look bad...and ERSB ratings were put in place to pacify the dumbfuck politicians who want to attack the industry to power their policies and influence their voters in the first place. It was working well and it did its job in shutting people up. Rockstar breached the trust of ERSB, the industry and the consumers who want to feel informed about the content.

Now all that said. My belief is the industry won't see severe clampdowns or censorship after this. It wouldn't change a whole lot and eventually the hoo ha will die down naturally and quietly. ERSB reacted swiftly and retailers did their best to minimize damage to the rest of the products on their shelves.

My opinion? Rockstar had best issue a public apology and stop making cheeky decisions that will spoil the cake for everyone. Its already hard as it is to make a living on games development.

[Sinix]

This Jack Thompson guy is just a nut.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129609.html

I've heard he regularly responds to emails with one-line, douchebag responses. Hope someone puts him in his place.

[flatliner]

This Jack Thompson guy is just a nut.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129609.html

I've heard he regularly responds to emails with one-line, douchebag responses. Hope someone puts him in his place.

is that guy... serious? his acusations are laughable. There is no way in hell The Sims could offend ANYONE.

[darth massacre]

That's stupid. EA has a fighting case to argue with The SIMS2 and they will probably come out on top. Rockstar has no excuse.

[Prometheus|ANJ]

Actually EA is lying a tad too?

Jeff Brown, vice president of corporate communications at EA: ... "If someone with an extreme amount of expertise and time were to remove the pixels, they would see that the sims have no genitals. They appear like Ken and Barbie."

(underline emphasis mine)

I don't own Sims2 but a /. post says:

1: Pull down console with Ctrl-Shift-C
2: Type: intprop censorgridsize 0
3: Enjoy barren crothbumps


There's also some pathes for more realistic genitals. Some people have already used the movie funtion to make all sorts of porn.

Here's a nude cheat for internet (internet is also required for the Hot Coffe mod): Think of a word related to sex and type in URL bar. Add .com on the end.

Or, goto google.com and click on Advanced Search link. Put SafeSeach on "(o) No Filtering". Now goto Image Search and enter any dirty word. Alternatively, just enter ANY word. You're bound to get a surprise shock pic sooner or later. Will it be goatse, tubgirl or elderly people taking a dump, who knows? For true horror, enter 'Furry' into the search field.

If that fails, go into your parent's bedrom. Open the closet and look in the box hidden behind the shoes. There should be a Playboy there. (Disclaimer: If you live in America you might find a gun in the box instead.)

[Paralax]

See what I mean?

If you notice, they are NOT targeting the games with the worse content. They are targeting the games that are popular and the one's belonging to major companies ONLY.

EA is the largets and most profitable interactive entertainment company in the world. GTA:SA is the top selling game of the year.....

Next thing you know: Zelda is too pornographic and Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence has communist messages spread subliminally. Give me a break.

Their strategy: Destroy the popular games with the excuse that the popular games are the one's "affecting the youth of America" while shooting a second bird out of the sky: Striking a kidney-shot at the major companies, thus halting major videogame development.

It would be a little extreme to say there's a conspircy, but look at the figures: Videogames are already the fastest growing branch of entertianment. People actually stop renting movies to rent or BUY games. Hollywood producers are killing each others for rights to games.

Youth of America? Youth of america my arse. The game's violence and sex content is as dangerous to an adult as it is for a child. It is a human mind after all. Even worse: The parent's will begin surrounding themselves with this psychology and actually begin letting their sons play these stuff. OH MY GOD.

Rant. BS. Violence and Sex are a real aspect of our lives, and it is wrong to promote them, BUT, the reality is, videogames are being targeted too harshly, just because it is beocming ever more popular. Movies depict more realism, websites actually TEACH and SHOw people how to commit suicide or how to build REAL bombs... FOR FREE.

Yet they target a game that costs $50 bucks new....

[The Iconoclast]

Haha. GTA : SA becomes GTA:SA hahaha.





..er..sorry.

[HugeHarHar]

Thanks a lot Rock Star.

Thanks a fucking lot.

I knew there was a reason I steered away from your games, I knew one day, you'd screw us all over with your secrety secrets.