Wadda this need more? C&C plezze :D

[Johannes]

Hi again
I forgot to say I want comments and critique!
Especially on this new graphite "dark elf girl"
How the heck do I scan light graphite?
And should I ink it or go ahead with the graphite?
Should I add legs for full height figure?
Cya :Dhttp://hem.passagen.se/double-zero/previews.html

[-=Rosie=-]

Please do not be offended by anything I say but...

I think they both look like men, not sure why but i think its the anatomy and the faces. The top pic seems a little wide across the stomach and the nose seems a bit on the large side.

The second one looks like a bloke to me because it has no breasts and really short hair. From the outfit it looks like she is going fishing. The torso is divided by the arms but the top half looks like it wouldnt match up with the bottom half if the arms were straightened. Waist down on this pic looks fine to me you just need a few corrections on her top half. The anatomy of her shoulders look like they need attention too.

[Crunch]

yes it is the anatomy and the facial structure. women are delicate. (for the most part) you dont want to put alot of detail into a woman or they will look muddy and too rough looking. less is more. most women in drawings have an hourglass figure. ill post a woman soon to show you. the porportions arent bad but it is just the bulk. look at some of the pros too and try again.

[Gray]

I agree with the first posts and there is potential. The first could (with some modifactions to the head perhaps) go for a orc lady... But then again they're not very feminine.

Don't stop. keep trying.

[Johannes]

Oh yes, I get your drifts. But this aint standard "photogenic women", those characters bore me easily. I agree with Crunch about the facial features, Im well aware of that, since my photographing days (big spot and lotsa powder- blow out all wrinkles and unclear lines from the photo). Kills age and wrinkles in one sweep - just right along with personality... The top pic "Dark elf girl" however are far from ready. The second pic "Razorgirl" Im gonna cg color in the future, so the extra lines are more for my memory to get the face right.
But questions remain - should I ink "dark elf girl" or go on with the graphite?

[the good war]

i agree with you Johannes people that stay from the norm are far more interesting, i would say in concept art the more the better. but i would make my desicion(ink or shade) on the goal of the rendering. When i shade i shade to add the pores in the skin, and make deformations more apparent. second know your strengths and weaknesses if i felt i wanted to show this work off i wouldn't ink because i suck at it. i would say create the charactor in its entirety its good practice and allows you to become more creative through nessesity. i would check the perspective on razor girls foot.great job

[Johannes]

Thanx good war for comments. :)
Problem is Im not particularly good at either graphite or ink, but Im leaning towards ink on dark elf girl. "When i shade i shade to add the pores in the skin" - darn, how U do that?
Yikes, Its raxzorgirls left foot, is it not! Shes standing on something round! Crap! Il have to move it in PSD. My excuse is, its the biggest thing Ive done - 45cm tall, she is, and somehow its weirded up my perspective aswell. ;)

[Adam]

i would say just go easy on the detail that you add to the skin - in ink and graphite, leaving the skin clear will go a long ways for you....if you check out opticNerve's, Prometheus's, and Neole's women on the DSG threads, you'll see what I mean. I agree, however, that not all women characters should be supermodels :) however, little things like leaving their skin clear of detail can go a long way toward establishing their femininity without giving them 24-26-24 (or thwatever those numbers are supposed to be) bodies. There are a couple of other tricks for making females that you can use that will still allow you to make different body types and personalities:
1 - Slightly shorten the torso. For some reason, putting the hips a little higher makes characters (at least to me) look more feminine.
2 - Narrow shoulders. While I can totally understand that athletic woman have broad shoulders, take a look at Olympic athletes - their shoulders are NEVER as broad as most men's. You can narrow the shoulders a little and still get away with having a unique girl.
3 - Tilt the shoulders and hips toward each other. What I mean is choose say the right shoulder and right side of the hip, and raise that side of the hip, and lower that side of the shoulder, or vice versa. This adds a little bit of "sauciness" if you will ;)

Anyways, you may already know these things, but just always keep them in mind - they're little visual cues that can go a long way toward establishing a character's femininity without destroying her personality or making her look like a J. Scott Campbell bimbo!

This isn't the best example (a good picture would probably be more helpful!!), but it illustrates some of the stuff I was talking about up there:
http://bombshelter.ghostopsmod.com/pics/babe-preview.jpg
Even though not much of her skin is even showing, i've kept it fairly clear, her torso is a little small, and her hips and shoulders are tilted toward each other a little. She does not have the usual bimbo form, she has personality, but she is still clearly female...hope this helps!!!

[fletchgirl]

adam.. i think you're thinking in reverse.. ;) 36, 24, 36 (brick house!) hahah
anyway, for real though, better than looking at another drawing, look at real pics. these are bodybuilding women. i've outlined there basic curves to highten the emphasis. anyway...
http://www.members.aol.com/_ht_a/auuugghhhh/body2
as you can see these women are very cut, but they still have curves. one main reason being, our (males and females) muscles may be the same, but you can tell the difference between a male and a female skeleton by the shape of their hips. one main reason being, we have the babies. I'm not trying to patronize you, but this is a fact.
http://www.members.aol.com/_ht_a/auuugghhhh/body1
okay, here's another view. look at her six pack, it's more like a five pack. BECAUSE, women are, in fact, a little softer.because... we have the babies! note how a womans body, even a very well developed one, goes in at the belly, then comes back out again. your dark elf should maybe just go in a tad more. just a tad...

the main problem i see... the one that other's haven't mentioned yet, is where the legs connect to the torso... it looks like there's nothing there. i marked on the woman above where it seems to me that your drawing ends, (1) and where it should end (2) although, that is the bottom of her butt. OH!!! i'm looking at your drawing again, the first one, and i see that maybe that shouldn't be lower nessc, but the lines connecting the torso to the legs should be higher.

[fletchgirl]

i hope you don't hate me for this, but i tried to illustrate what i was talking about over you first drawing (i found this most helpfull in class)
http://www.members.aol.com/_ht_a/auuugghhhh/darkelf

here's what i did.
1 raised the line connecting the torso and the legs.
2)brought body in bit
3)raised belly button. or maybe i didn't i couldn't tell which line was the bb...
4)pushed out the hips a bit. you can stiil square them off a little if you want, just move it out a tad farther.
i really hopes this helps. i think it's very cool that you don't want them to be conventional women.

[Johannes]

OOOh Yes! This is why I joined conceptart! Big thanx to Adam, and even bigger thanx to Fletchgirl!
This is soo good, this is so great. Thanx for tips guys, Ill start working on dark-elf tonight :D
For some darned reason, I have always have difficulty connecting legs to the hips/torso! I just dont seem to get how that works! :/ But Ill get to work in it.
Thanx again guys!:chug:

[fletchgirl]

great! :D post the changes when they're made!

[the good war]

yes everyone has made great comments and by shading to create the pores in the face and other deformations i guess that doesn't apply in every drawing i just like the tedious shading of objects because i find it the most intriging and rewarding portion of drawing mostly because i naturally seek some understanding of light and focus less on form. but in this project i would say keep the shading style relitively smooth considering the complexity of form and line.

[Johannes]

Hi again and thanks everyone for suggestions
here are new versions
http://hem.passagen.se/double-zero/previews.html
(its a little heavy)
Somehow I think darkelf lost her personality, Im not satisfied /
The legionare guy needs some info on gun and uniform too - Im placing him in 50s vietnam so ifanyone have some info on that it would be great. :)