Fantasy portrait in progress, need critique!

[carakhan]

hello everyone, This is going to be my first official finished piece... like, ever. I've done daily sketches, and blah blah... but I've never devoted more than a few hours to something. I really want to make this good. I can't even tell how far done I am yet, but I need all the help I can get.

Here are a few in progress shots:

Initial sketch in Painter 9:
http://tinypic.com/6h10jm.jpg

Lighting to start it off:
http://tinypic.com/6h10yp.jpg


Saved a little late on this one, but wasn't too bad:
http://tinypic.com/6h10t0.jpg

The last I've gone to:
http://tinypic.com/6h11d0.jpg

I appreciate anything you can offer. Obviously there is a lot wrong with it, but I want to catch everything early on so I don't post something with a hideous flaw.

[madster]

Too late.
The anatomy is the hideous flaw.
http://img115.echo.cx/img115/3502/profile28zc.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[carakhan]

So what you're saying is that the nose is too long? You've only showed that through the sketch, I've cleaned it up a bit farther along. I'm not making her out to be perfect, but from what I see in your picture, she's only off on that, right?

[gray_]

actually the way to fix it would be to shorten the cranium, not the nose (you would retain more of the portraitistic quality and what not).Keep in mind that length to width of the head should be 1:1

[madster]

http://img138.echo.cx/img138/9589/profile38zd.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
Okay, lets see now...
* The end of the nose is too sharp and pointed, with the underside angling right down to the upper lip.
* The lower jaw is too far back, and too pointed. It then angles too far back up the skull to join the ear, which has now moved too high on the face, and is still too narrow and "carved out" looking.
*The hairline is too far back in the temple area and in front of the ears.
* The neck is too long, too narrow, and joins the skull at a disturbing 45 degree angle.
* The eyes are misshapen and too large for the face.
* The mouth is too wide for the face.

And this is not even getting into your shading of things like the cheekbones, nape of the neck, etc...This is just addressing the anatomy.

[carakhan]

To just address a few things:
I'm sensing hostility, and I'm not sure why. There's no reason to put "too late".
It's an obviously unfinished work, and it's never too late to change something. I will change the eyes, and shorten the lips. I've since worked on the cheekbones, so we'll see about that when I update.
This is a fantasy piece, not meant to be a human, hence the elongated neck and pointed nose. More of the neck is in shadow, but I can widen it. I see where you're coming from with the 45 degree angle, but I was going for the body to be that way. I've changed the piece since to follow that. I changed the ears, but I think they're still off. so I'll do it again.
If you please, here is the most recent version. If you have more information for me, I'd gladly like to hear it. But I would appreciate it if you wouldn't address me like I'm incompetent, and give me suggestions as well as telling me what you don't like.
gray- thanks for the info, i'll keep that in mind next time.

Before you address these issues, these are the ones I'm aware of:
The hairline, especially on the forehead, needs to be moved forward. I have not changed the eyes yet. I don't like the shading on the neck, but would like some suggestions to improve it.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/Arenyth/facetutorial8.jpg

[CCThrom]

The first thing I want to say is I like your painting quality... particularly in the second one, but then I'm always a sucker for sketchy/brushy painting.

Since the face isn't meant to be human, I don't think you need to hold it up to the same exact proportions... but having said that, there are a few things that I think will help.

The basic problem I see is that there is not enough indication of the back of her head... her neck continues into her hair and the line of her jaw stops at her ear. The overall effect is of a mask with no head. I'm not sure if moving her ear back/down will help of not, but I definitly think you should indicate some mass to her head in the area behind the ear.

You asked for help on her neck particularly... right now the muscles are too pronounced, they look like separate objects. The mass of her windpipe angles back too sharply. Here's where I'd love to start redlining over your scan... how do you feel about line-overs?

[carakhan]

oh i would absolutely love it if you did a line over, thank you! I'm much more of a visual person, it would help me so much more.

[Pesmerga]

I just wanna say that she's doing an elf, so... leave her alone with that freaking human skull!!! It's not meant to be realistic, it's fantasy!

I've never met an elf with a neck that long and a mouth that wide. Then again, I've never met an elf...

[Romulus]

The only problem that gets me is not seeing definition of the back of the head. Just looks..wierd. But other then that, I like!

[carakhan]

Romulus,
Everyone's saying that, but I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean the shading is too dark? Can you not see the hair at the bottom? If you wouldn't mind, I'd really like a draw over, so I can understand more.

[gray_]

The hair dosn't give any indication of where the skull actually ends. I don't have a tablet on my laptop unfortunetly :(

Hopefully someone elese can do a draw over for you.

[CCThrom]

I had fun with this... hope I didn't go overboard. Working over your painting was a great learning experience for me, now let's hope it will be of use to you too!

I did a basic forms redline, which I hope is self-explanatory. And then a rough paintover. You can see that all I really covered were parts of her neck and throat (and a very little bit of forehead - you already knew about that so I didn't mess with it much). I do understand that when you work on this, you will cover more of the back of her head with hair, but I kept the base of her skull bare for illustration. Then a little fun based on the skull structure simplification.

There are folks here with much stronger anatomy skills than me, but I hope this will bump you in the right direction. You certainly have drawing/painting skill, so I think what you need most is to understand and stay conscious of the stucture underneath all the skin/hair/etc.

Even though Madster was stuck on "human" proprtion, the basic point is that a better understanding of these proportions will allow you to make your "unhuman" distortions feel more real and believable. Also check out some figure reference for the muscles in her neck. Personally, I like Hogarth's "Drawing the Dynamic Head" but there are many others.

http://www.ccthrom.com/blinder/conceptart/thinmint_paintover.jpg

Best wishes with it!

[Mothman]

Just wanted to ask you if you own a copy of "digital character design and painting" by don seegmiller, as this piece looks very similar to the image in the "painting a face" and "painting hair" chapters of the book. This would explain a lot about the style and proportions of the womans head in your piece. If you dont own this book, its a very handy book to own and would help you out a lot.

The only improvements I can think of at the moment are final touches such as jewellery, as the piece looks a little bland. Anyway keep up the good work!

[carakhan]

Yea, actually I sketched the picture based off of it, because I didn't want to use his, but I wanted to be able to follow his tutorial properly. Hence the weird ass proportions and what not.

I agree about the jewelry, but I think thats more of a finishing touch. believe me, I'm doing a lot more to this. The face was just the beginning, I'm hoping to turn it into more.

And damn, I love Don Seegmiller.

[carakhan]

Update for today:
I tried to do some of the neck like you all said, but I think I'm having trouble with the colors. It looked like the head was just attached to the neck, like pasted on. I think it's because i refined the face so much and the neck is still sketchy?
Fixed eyes, lips, cheeks a bit. Forehead as well. Critiques are welcome and encouraged, as always.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/Arenyth/facetutorial10.jpg