QuickSketch, Vilppu vs Watts vs Kevin Chen vs...whatever

[NoSeRider]

Vilppu does quicksketches different from what I'm being trained at Watts:
http://www.vilppustudio.com/quicksketch.htm

Watts:
http://www.wattsatelier.com/home.html

How does Kevin Chen's QuickSketch teaching differ from Watts?
http://www.laafigart.com/Kevin_Chen.htm

From what I gather, it's important to lay down the most simpliest continuous line 1st......I don't see that in Vilppu quicksketch.

However, Vilppu comes from an animation guild which basically finds the line rather then commits to a line.

Basically, I'm going to take a quicksketch class from an alumni of Vilppu. Just wondering how Vilppu's training will be different?.....and what are the advantages?

[dark pop toy]

I think one of the biggest differences, and this is based mostly on seeing the work out of watts and kevin chen, and my experiences with sheldon borenstein, a very dedicated alumni of vilppu.. is that vilppu's gestures come from the inside of the figure out, while watts and kevin do more of an outline/overlapping sort of approach.. Vilppu is more about how you feel about the pose of the model, you don't really copy the pose, but you draw inspiration from it and change it to how you feel it could look cooler and more lively.. Actually, another one of the big things that vilppu stresses is motion.. probably like you said, for animation.. He also teaches you how to lead the eye properly with your lines.. I think watts does that too tho.

hope that helps..

Oh, and as far as the big main line thing.. Vilppu always wants you to keep it in mind, you just dont draw it all the time i guess.. Actually, I think it wasnt stressed as much as it should have been in my class.

[NoSeRider]

I guess it has more to do with contour vs construction type approach.

[tinyhands]

NoSeRider- All you need is more drawing mileage, thats the majority of it. The "watts" style, more acurately the reilly the method is quite similar to what Kevin Chen does, except he has a little more Steve Huston influence, but you can tell by the look of his drawings, he knows the reilly method. Glen Vilppu trains animators, so his drawings are more linnear, and they emphasize volume and structure, not tone. But when it comes down to it, its all shape analyzation and nothing more. Just draw alot.

-tiny

[E.M.GIST]

I agree with everything tinyhands said. However, I think it is more important to look at the similarities and not the differences. Try to find where the approaches overlap and agree, because these are obviously the most universal and important of principles. I would say that these commonalities are observing and establishing the main gesture or action of the pose (whether you exaggerate it or not) and compliment this with the structural form (either tonally or linereally).

[NoSeRider]

http://www.dhfa.net/Artiststatement.html

Just as a side note....I like this website.

[one2hit]

this is a shallow post, but I think that watts atelier drawings > vilpuu. The drawing styles serve somewhat different purposes, but for me...mmmm <3 those sexy watts bastards!

[silverslash]

thx for that link noserider its pretty informative :-)

[MadSamoan]

A good way to find the overlaps in the approaches are by simpliying the approaches into three elements, line, mass, and form. (Any students of Bill Perkins will know where I'm going with this). You'll find that you can take almost any successful drawing and it will display elements of one, two, or all three. Care must be taken to make sure though that when a drawing utilizes all three, that these elements do not compete. In order words do not have equal portions of all three elements or it becomes chaotic, unless that is the effect you're going for.

Vilppu's gesture drawings are very much dominated by form and any marks he makes are made to reinforce the effect of form. Line is subordinate to form in his drawings and mass is almost nonexistant, until you start factoring in his wash sketches. He's highly sought after by students pursuing a commercial career in animation, layout, storyboarding, fields which require a quick turnover rate with limited reference/models due to time restraints.

The Reilly approach to quick sketch is a combination of all three elements, line/mass/ form, but it's usually dominated heavily by two of the elements with a third subordinate. Some combinations are heavy on line/mass, with form subordinate and some are form/mass dominant, with line subordinate or nonexistant. Reilly practitioners tend to be vastly different from each other and it's pretty interesting to see which elements they gravitate to. From my firsthand observations, alot of Watts students lean towards mass/form dominant. The Reilly approach is geared towards painting and figurative illustration, fields where you must often get accurate, yet idealized likenesses.

As for Kevin, his classes are analytical figure drawing classes, so the drawings that we see are heavy on line and form for the purposes of the class. He's one of the most adaptable draftsmen around though and he was trained by Vilppu, Westermoe (Reilly approach), and Huston, so he's a hybrid as are a fair portion of the art students that make their rounds through Art Center/CAI/LAAFA/Associates. Kevin can go in and out of these three elements as he sees fit depending on whether his assignments call for Disney-style, tonal, comic book style/anime, etc...

Another example of a well trained hybrid draftsman would be Paul Wee. He had a lot of Reilly approach training at CAI and his early qucksketches are some of the most elegant I've ever seen. His trade is as a highly successful character artist in animation and he's Vilppu, Westermoe and Huston trained as well and his quick sketches are a unique blend and his quck sketches shift from line/ form dominant to line/mass dominant.

[IILooney]

Nice thread, very informative.

[mentler]

Two basic approaches

Drawing the figure from imagination

Drawing the figure from life

Most master draughtsmen use a combination of both <> it is just a matter of where one puts the most emphasis.

Anthony Ryder draws mostly from life

Harry Carmean relies a great deal on imagination

both work from models but see them totally different

It alls has a lot to do with seeing shapes or seeing forms

[GCastro]

Hey, great post MadSamoan! Hybrid is the way i want to go :) I gotta find me some Kevin Chen classes to go to. MadSamoan, where do you take classes?

George

[MadSamoan]

Kevin isn't teaching any figure drawing classes at the moment. He's been teaching character design classes at and Art Center. Charles Hu, a classmate of Kevin's takes an identical approach to analytical figure drawing and teaches at as well and another school. Vilppu and Paul Wee would also be good choices among the instructors that are currently teaching. There are a lot of good instructors out there, these are just some of the guys that take the analytical approach which is ideal for commercial work.


As for me, I've mainly taken classes at CAI, but I also go to places like , LAAFA, and I went to Watts several years ago before I moved up to L.A.