Industrial Design

[s.ketch]

I hope this is the right forum, sorry if its not mods.

I read alot about how all these famous concept artist went to a school and took I.D. classes. I did some googleing and I still have questions.

1)What exactly is Industrial Design
2)What do you learn from it
3)How does it differ from straight graphic design and entertaiment design.<--(this will probaly be answered in the first question)

Thanks for the help. :)

[jrs2345]

Well, I graduated with a BFA in Industrial Design, so I have some say in this matter. I'll do my best at answering your questions.

1 & 2. Industrial Design really took form in the mid to late 1920's, so it is relatively new when compared to other art forms. The best way I can describe Industrial Design is it is almost everything you see around you and interact with on a daily basis. The toothbrush you use, the shoes you wear, the car you drive, the stereo you listen too, the furniture you own, etc. etc. etc., it is all designed. However, Industrial Design isn't all about products.

Industrial Design is also a way of problem solving. Probably the most important thing I learned while studying ID in school was how to use my brain in the most creative and efficient way possible. Whether I was solving an existing problem, coming up with a new creative concept, or even just presenting ideas, I was learning how to use my brain...if that makes any sense.

3. Graphic Design from what I understand tends to focus more specifically in 2-D design. In ID you will have to basically learn everything, including graphic design. How to sell an idea, how to present your work, how to problem solve, brainstorm, and/or conceptualize. That is why some of these talented concept artists took ID classes because it's one thing to have talent, but another thing to have talent and creativity. Most guys out there can draw something pretty, but the designers who are top notch can draw something pretty and also make it "real" or "believable." They make it work and can meet client's needs.

Entertainment Design would obviously focus more on designing for the entertainment industry. At my school they didn't offer entertainment design, but if they had I would have taken it in a heartbeat. I'm sure at a good school that offered (ED) they would ingrain a lot of those design principles you would learn in studying ID. If you like ED then take it...I still wouldn't have majored in it if I could because that is too specific for me.

I honestly chose ID as my major because it gave me the most options once I graduated from school. If I want to do concept art for video games, design cars, design toys, conceptualize for film, work in environmental design, etc. I could do all of those things and thousands more.

Now I'm a freelance conceptual designer for ToyBiz, so I conceptualize new comic book related action figures. If I want to do something else I can and I love having that flexibility in my life.

Anyways, I hope I helped you out somewhat.

God bless,
Jeremy

[s.ketch]

Oh, ok. Thanks alot, you gave me some answers ive been wanting.

[Jane Radstrom]

Hey, one other note for ya about ID. I'm not and ID person, but I have looked into it and found that it focuses alot on the 3-d element of objects. Industrial Designers have to learn to draw very solidly with perspective, especially relating to designing a single object. They learn to really conceptualize things in three dimensions and acheive immaculate believability for the dimension of their objects. Also, a large part of industrial design is making actual models of your drawn ideas. So you work with alot of construction and sculptural materials. A big difference between Graphic Design and ID is that Graphic designers are primarily concerned with making things look cool, selling something. ID people have to think beyond that and learn how to do drawings and models which communicate to manufacturers how to build a product. I would say it is alot more technical.

I don't think you learn the skills as a Graphic Designer to do either ID or Entertainment Design. While creativity and general design/color/composition is very important for all 3 feilds and is the focus of GD, most GD programs don't teach you alot of core drawing and observational skills (needed for ED), nor the technical skills involved in manufacturing (for ID).

[Ni*]

I wanted to comment on this as an industrial designer..

Industrial design is 3D design with the knowledge of how and why things work, what they are made of, how they are made and marketed. basically, it is problem solving and execution from identification through to evaluating your solution.

there is a difference in what you learn studying ID as a seperate entity and doing an ID class as part of an arts course. I for one learned loads about problem solving and idea generation while studying, but, in the 4 year course my drawing skills were not pushed. They were very much left to myself to develop. - this may well be different in US colleges-

I was able to draw a sketch product or mechanism to get an idea understood but that was all (ahh, if only i had found this forum about 5 years ago...)

what i'm saying is, industrial design is the grandaddy of design education but depending on the institution, the quality of tuition and the drive of the student you can come out the other end with a lack of direction.

I see industrial design as a good basis of an education that can open alot of doors to explore in the future (i'm now training to be a design and technology teacher in secondary school)

it was once the case that an industrial designer could move into production design,set design, transportation design or product design but each of these disciplines now have their own specific courses and, possibly as a result, industrial design often has to be explained to people.

If you are considering studying design, then i would reccoment ID, but research the universities first, talk to graduates and students at all levels and ask to see the work of the tutors - they have to be able to do what they are going to grade you on!

and above all else, draw every chance you get and dont panic about getting a good job as soon as you graduate, just look at the history of the good concept designers, alot of them went the long way round, you learn more that way i think.

the diference between ID and a more specific course is that ID will give you a spread of knowledge meaning you can take to engineers designers and advertisers, that said, you wont get 4 years of drawing robots and flying cars, and you'll have to sit through engineering and maths lectures

I may be off with this message because i studied in the UK on a BSc course but thats my understanding of it anyway....

N

[NoSeRider]

Industrial Design seems feasible to me since Cal State University Long Beach offers it for $ 1400 a semester to California Residents:
http://www.csulb.edu/depts/design/

Character artists and Traditional artists generally lack environmental design abilities, usually because they don't force themselves to imagine new environments or know the principles of perspective.

I don't have a BS Degree, and Art Center and Otis Parsons are way up in the stratosphere as far as tuition goes......it's something I'm contemplating.

It would definitely add to my knowledge aritistically.

Basically, concept artists like Feng Zhu and Scott Robertson are compelling me to think in this direction.

[s.ketch]

Thanks for the help guys, im getting a better understanding of what ID is and all. Im not planning on being a concept artist or anything like that, I want to be a modeler for a VG company. I just think having ID abilities is a great thing and I might persue a degree later in my career. So untill then ill probally research and teach myself some minor stuff about ID and other drawing aids. Thanks again. :)

[Wisdom_Cube]

Can anyone recommend some books? I'm taking animation rightnow, and drawing environments and vehicles is pretty difficult rightnow compared to people.

[acheng]

wisdom_cube:
The best environmental/ ID books I've seen is the art of star wars books. There are two different kinds, analog and digital. If you want analog i.e. pencil, pen, marker, etc, then get the Art of Star Wars Episode 1. If you want digital, go for the newest one, Art of Star Wars Episode III, all digital in revenge of the sith. If you want industrial design books, I'd look out for books by Dick Powell. These are an industrial designer bibles. If you want something really Advanced, then go for some of the Gnomonworkshop DVD's and don't forget grand master Syd Mead books as well.

[NoSeRider]

http://www.csulb.edu/depts/design/
A reply to my email from Michael Kammermeyer, an Industrial Design Instructor from Cal State University Long Beach:

I have reviewed your work at the sites you referenced, and I am familiar with fengzudesign and drawthrough. I can see the interest you have in these artists.

The industrial design program at CSULB is probably not the best for you. We do not have an entertainment industry component nor a strong illustration focus. Our program is more attuned to engineering product development rather than art.

The best programs that coincide with your interests will be at professional art schools such as Art Center and Art Academy. I don't know of a "cheap" alternative. If you are going to devote 4 or more years to your education you should go to the best. I believe that your portfolio would assure a scholarship to help pay expenses at the better art schools.

I think my aspirations for an industrial design major might be shot down the tubes.

[Helium Macaroni]

Ammusingly, a real good book for ID is "How to Draw Cars the Hotwheels Way" by Scott Robertson.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0760314802/qid=1115093755/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-7280974-6166356

Combine this book with Scott's Gnomon DVD's and you have a formidible tutorial at your hands.

NoSeRider, honestly I don't think your chances have evaporated. I, like everyone else I know, do not have the income, nor the assitance to go to Art Center without loans. Private loans, Cal Grants, Federal loans, and scholarships all make it possible for us to attend the school. Bascially it's a craps shoot, and an investment. You will eventually be able to repay that dept with a decent job after graduating, and who even says you have to graduate? Feng, I dont believe, graduated. But what Mr. Kammermeyer says would seem to be true. Art Center or Art Academy even CalArts have an established and trusted relationship with the industry, making the chances of placement higher just by merit of that proximity proffesionally. He's also right about going for the best. You've gotta go all the way with your education if you're commited to it. I only wish I had known about schools like Art Center before I wasted my time with Pratt. We all have our financial issues if we haven't grown up trust fund kids.

[Ismail]

Head to your library and signout :teeth:

"Perspective for Comicbook Artists" by David Chelsea
"How to Draw Comics" the Marvel Way
http://www.fineart.sk (Loomis "Creative Illustration) Ryan Church recommends this book.

http://www.scottmcdaniel.net Go to his "Draw Comics Section. He's a pro on perspective. And also if you're gonna do perspective, tack (fuzz some masking tape on your clothes so it won't rip the back of your drawing piece) some papers onto your drawing image to extend the distance between vanishing points and by all means use a meter/yard stick to draw your convergance lines. :)

And also use reference, shoot your own reference too. :) Draw buildings outside to come up with your own short hand for drawing perpective. :) Lay in your shapes rough and light before introducing the ruler. Don't draw perspective with the approach of finished piece with every stroke of the pen or pencil. Not initially. Treat perspective drawing like figure drawing. Get the whole correctly before going into the details and getting the lines straight. :) Also this is a big thing!!! Change you mindset and believe you can do it. Affirmations really work. Say it out loud that you can do the task you want to do and dive on in. If you start off as "I find this difficult." it's gonna be difficult. You can start off with "It's difficult" However add on what you're going to do about it to make the task accomplishable. :) The mind is a powerful tool. You can do what you will. :)

I also want to add this. In regards to which school you go to. If you live in California or in the USA and your stuff is fantastic, you'll be first pic regardless of what school you went too or didn't go too. :) Also, when you're preping stuff to send to studios TELL A STORY with your designs. Unless you've already built up a client base TELL A STORY. anyone who can design can show off designs. Movies and games hire thinkers, storytellers, show 'em you can do more than just draw pretty pictures. :) EA has this in their recuiting pamphlet I received from them, and Doug Chiang shared this bit of info with me after he saw my works. He told me "Tell a story, don't just show you can draw, I can already see that." Note to all: Doug got to be design director of Star Wars episode 1 and 2 because he showed Robota to George. His submitted portfolio was a mini movie project, storyboards, production shots, sketches. Robota.


Oooh, and one more thing Gnomon DVDS!!!! :) If ya can afford them I highly recommend. You don't need to get all of 'em, however, a few are extremely helpful. :)

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Ismail Matovu Wamala
http://www.imwfactor.