Full Sail, Ringling, or Art Institute of Houston for 3D Animation?

[IanE]

I'm accepted to AIH but I've decided to wait a year before college and get more skill before starting. Art Institute will hold my acceptance for a little over a year, so I can get into any of the colleges, but Houston is the one nearest to me (and housing would be free due to family living closeby), but I'm considering Ringling and Full Sail also...

Anyone have experiences at Full Sail, Ringling, or any AI schools for 3D Animation? Let me know what you guys think along the lines of cost to worth, housing, teachers and evironment, any success stories!

Also, if anyone can direct me to any excellent 3d animation resources like forums or websites, books or DVDs, please let me know! I'll soon start studying Maya or 3ds Max 7 to get a head start!

If anyone can list the different kinds of animators and what they do (in order of most important animator to least important), that would be so much help to me! I hear that specializing in a few forms of animation is much better than being a generalist and doing everything.

Anyway, thanks for reading and thanks in advance.

[Hett15]

Don't go to Full Sail period. Ringling is great (I'm going there this fall), and I don't know anything about AIH so I will not comment.

Just use the search tool on this forum to look up info about this question you have asked. The same question has been asked numerous times. I am not in any way implying that you are dumb for not knowing. Each year new people enter art school and want to research where to go and what choices and opinions others have. This is the first step in showing that you are serious about it. Good job.

Also go to http://forums.awn.com and search in the "Animation Cafe" forum for a thread titled "FAQ for Students and Grads" You will find a lot of info there.

[robint]

Full Sail isn't a bad school, I graduated from there...that being said its not the school to go to if you want to do concept art...the program there is very focused on learning 3D modeling and animation...
Good luck with school

[IanE]

robint: I want to do 3D Animation, but I also want a traditional art side to what I learn.

[ScatteredLogical]

Also go to http://forums.awn.com and search in the "Animation Cafe" forum for a thread titled "FAQ for Students and Grads" You will find a lot of info there.

I heard the guy that started that thread's a real jackarse though hehe :} Be prepared to skim to find what you want, or use the search over the entire forum...There is a lot of info there but with the messageboard format there's little to no organization.

I'm not going to Full Sail, but am curious what exactly is horrible about it? So far people just have fear, and not a lot of information, to provide me with on the situation....

[Hett15]

I heard the guy that started that thread's a real jackarse though hehe :}

He sure is!!! He's an ASS!!

I'm not going to Full Sail, but am curious what exactly is horrible about it? So far people just have fear, and not a lot of information, to provide me with on the situation....

I'll get back to you on that one when i am not at work.

[IanE]

I'm not going to Full Sail, but am curious what exactly is horrible about it? So far people just have fear, and not a lot of information, to provide me with on the situation....

I'm also wondering how the school can still be in business, more and more every year, if it's such a terrible place...

But, it could just be a trap!

Recently looked at Gnomon, but I seriously doubt I can find the funding to live in California... bleh.

[benzo]

i would recommend ringling since i went there, its a lot of money but i think its at the top of the game right now like the cali schools were during the traditional era a decade ago. but it always comes down to what you make out of it

and one big problem i see for ringling in the near future is CA is doubling in size. my class had around 40, and we were tight, but 80 students, and new teaching staff...... its going to be totally different.......still your best bet though

here is one fact i know about full sail- they spent a lot of money on a decked out bus that tours the country to recruit kids..... now if they were really concerned about your education why would they waste that much money on a decked out bus?

[ScatteredLogical]

Or, if they were worth any salt, why would they putt around like hot dog vendors looking for kids, whilst their competitors have people seeking them out and committing suicide when they don't get in lol (exaggerating of course)

[IanE]

I used Full Sail's "Talk Live!" feature on their site and asked tough questions like how often software/hardware is updated, how often teachers are refreshed on the curriculum and reviewed for effeciency, and what percent of total tuition revenue goes toward the actual courses.

They only knew the answer to how often software/hardware is updated, which was, "Whenever something new comes out on the market, we buy it."

Not going to Full Sail. Ringling seems to be my goal, and Art Institute the backup.

[sula_nebouxi]

Good choice ;) If you're gonna spend this much money on an art school, might as well try for the best, right?

[Orbital]

I didn't go to Full Sail but I did apply a couple of years ago. I cannot believe the amount of marketing those people do: they called me every month for a long time after I applied and kept touting the school, sent me post cards of all the "cool" things that are happening there, but when I had heavy duty questions like placement rates, hardware availabilitity, student to teacher ratios, etc, they couldn't answer or had canned responses. The whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth.

And late last year, I read serveral blogs (for what they're worth) that had scathing reviews from former students.

I dunno. On the whole, I'm glad I missed that boat.

[IanE]

I'm not a huge fan of their attitude... the Talk Live! feature lets you talk to a Marketing Director... both times I spoke to them they had pretty bad grammar, slow responces, and obvious protocol since they both said the same answers verbatim... copy+paste...

[ScatteredLogical]

Ringling is a marketing machine too, but they probably use real marketers because they're far more subtle about it, and thus far more effective.

So Full Sail = Art Institute? Kinda the picture that's getting painted...

[IanE]

Well, Full Sail isn't equal to anything... I just hold AIH higher than Full Sail since they have gen ed courses, and traditional art. And the fact that I get free housing there and not in Florida is quite nice. Besides, I could always go to Full Sail later on anyway if I felt that it was needed.

I think Full Sail offers a great program, just not a very affordable, reasonable, or well rounded or even healthy program though... but hey it's hardcore and there are hardcore students.

EDIT: Read through a lot of the official Ringling thread, got a headache, and no answer.

Anyone tell me how much they spent in total at Ringling (including housing and living) and if I'm correct to think that there are only Fall and spring semesters which are a little under $10,000.00 each? Roughy 80,000 total before fees?

[ScatteredLogical]

9800 approximately per semester for tuition only times 8 semesters = 78400...

What is it that you feel is great? That looked like a list of anti-great things ;)

I think the four year model is a recent development in the AI world, correct?

[IanE]

Thanks for the info on Ringling's tuition! 78400 is only 10,000 more than AI, and with financial aid and scholarships I'm sure it would be much easier!

I think the way they teach Maya at Full Sail and how intense the class is is great, but that's th eonly plus to Full Sail haha.

AI just got the bachelors program for media arts and animation very recently, and it's a 3-year course since school is year round. the instructors have very good credentials and degress for teaching in Texas. My last year I hope to transfer to San Francisco and intern at Dreamworks if I go with AI... but if I get accepted to Ringling, then hopefully dreamworks will recruit meeee haha. What a dream, I know.

[robint]

:blahblah: To answer your question.. the do by the new software right when it comes out and roll it out right away...the class size at first in the Gen ed. classes is really big but there are only 3 or 4 classes...then you go right in to your core and those are about 20-30 kids the further along you get the less people because people have to retake things, and some just cant handle the pace as for the traditional side there are only 2 classes, not much one is kind of a conglomerate of every thing i.e. figure drawing, perspective, clay modeling, ect. the other is about story boarding which in tales setting up shots and pre-production for animation and film...keep in mind classes only last about 1 month its huge clock hours though in class and out...on a typical day you would have lecture for 4hrs (i mean really lecture) and then you'd have a another 4 hours of lab (lots of hands on the equipment working with the software) and then you rinse and repeat 5-7days a week(yhea really the weekend too)
....but if you are interested in the hole collage life experience, and traditional art...its probably not the collage for you...i hear really great things about Ringling and Vancouver Film School...those might be a better choice for you.... best of luck in school. :blahblah: :bashful:

[pmiles]

The best advice I can give you is to visit each school yourself and see with your own eyes what they are up to. Put on headphones when you are being given the dog and pony show... it's a lot like going to a car dealership, every word out of their mouth is designed to sell you on the school, not really speak about the school. Ideally you'll want to talk with the instructors and students directly... without the salesman at your side. Go into it expecting that their sales pitch is an utter fabrication... it sometimes is.

Things to not weigh in on your decision:
Job placement promises... the ultimate empty promise, I can assure you.
What software they use... your learning a skill not software.
What hardware they use... your learning a skill not hardware.
Industry professionals teaching the classes... sometimes they make the worst instructors.

Smart things to do:
Take your GE courses at a local community college... preferrably aquire a AA degree as this will likely fulfill most if not all of your GE requirements.
Go to open life drawing and practice, practice, practice.
Look at the work of others from those around you to those from other schools and constantly critique it. Animation is about observation, the more you see, the more you will be able to do yourself.
Take acting classes... animation is all about acting.

You really can't base your decision on what you read in forums... as my old architecture professor used to say "Check it out, they could be lying." If you know nothing about 3D, you're susceptible to misinformation because you have no basis from which to judge the validity of the comments. When it comes down to it, you want the decision to be yours and yours alone, not the consensus of others. This is probably the biggest decision of your life and good or bad, it will make you into the person that you will later become. Know this, the best knowledge ever obtained is often obtained on the road less traveled and often not the road that you will ultimately end up on after all is said and done. There is nothing wrong with changing directions... life is all about choosing a fork in the road. Every road takes you on a different path and ultimately you gain something from it. Not trying to be obtuse.

[ScatteredLogical]

With all those opinions, which don't get me wrong seem very valid, what sort of experience are you coming from to say that?

I ask because a big stinkeroo is the job placement deal. When a school says a bunch of their folks landed jobs specific to their major in a year's time, isn't that a good thing? Because then it's just -your- efforts that determine if you can continue their legacy, on that path... Or are you saying those numbers are lies, or that even if you work hard they will do nothing to help you?

I'm not trying to bat anything down, it's just this is the first time someone's talked on the level about that and if you know some hard facts about it from personal dealings, I'd find that extremely useful.

[pmiles]

Put it this way, what college or university promises in writing that you will find a job in your chosen profession once you graduate? None.

What college or university promises to find jobs in your chosen profession for you? None.

What college or university tracks success/failure rates amongst it's entire student population in their related field of study for the public record? None.

I can assure you that more than not will end up doing something else upon completion of their studies. The plain hard true facts in the matter is that these places (major universities included) graduate a far higher number of prospective employees than there are actual jobs out there for them. No sugar coating here. This is not to say you can't find work, it just means that you will need to work very hard to attain your goals... perhaps even harder than you thought that you would ever need to.

Just this past summer, my school graduated an extremely talented young man in the AA program in animation. I don't use that descriptor often, so you can take my word for it that this guy was on top of his game, even on a professional level. He wasn't hired until early January (summer quarter ends late September). The school lists him as one of their success stories even though he was the one who landed himself the job. The delay in employment had more to do with him sending out his stuff to the places he wanted to work, rather than to the people that needed to see it. If he had to wait and he was oh so much better than everyone else on a grand scale, imagine what job searching was like for those with just average level stuff?

The next largest attribute that you can have next to a killer demo reel/portfolio are contacts. Part of what got him hired was the fact that someone inside of the company knew him and his work and got his reel to the right people. HR is the biggest roadblock to getting a job that there is, if you want your stuff to be seen, never send it to the address on the job application form... that's HR. You want your stuff to go to the art directors directly. If you know someone inside the place where you want to work, they are worth their weight in gold to you... employers know nothing about you, even your reel and resume may be misleading, they want some assurances that you are what you say you are and not just talking the talk. If someone inside that they know and respect says you've got potential, theiry're going to talk to you before those sitting in the stack of resumes over in the HR's office.

Job placement statistics are just statistics... like unemployment statistics... if you are on unemployment, you're unemployed (statistically), but if you are unemployed and not on unemployment, you're statistically employed. It's all how the numbers are done. Employment of any kind counts as placement to these places... that's how they keep the numbers up. Whose to say whether the school placed this gentleman or he did it himself? By their numbers, he is employed, the inference is that the school may have placed him directly... this is not always the case. Most job placement in the industry is done by the individual, not the school, however the numbers are counted as if they were one and the same.

If job placement statistics are imporant to you, go to the school and get a list of the last class that gradutated and find out how many of those specific individuals are now working in their chosen profession... not in testing or some related area, specifically in the area under which they studied. You should find that most are not working in their chosen profession but in some other field entirely, if they track those numbers that detailed at all. Again, the quickest way to a class-action lawsuit is to promise something you cannot deliver, and these schools word things just so to preclude such lawsuits from having any merit.

[IanE]

Great post, pmiles. Thanks so much.

I don't care about job placement as a high priority because I too believe it's the individual that gets the job, not what school he went to, and definitely not through a job placement program. I've learned about job placement in schools first hand. Done architecture for over 4 years now, I'm the leading high school architecture student in the state of Texas, won every contest every year... so I tell the co-op work program director I want a job drafting, and she signs me up for a job in a materials supplier's office...doing secretarial work that doesn't even honor my Microsoft Office Certifications... I get a whopping $6.00/hour because the company is going out of business, and I can't switch jobs or quit becuase I would get three failed classes with three 0's as the final averages... so I don't trust any school at all to place me a job, but if they miraculously do so, good for me. I do however know I will work in the field of my choice because I can honestly say that nothing has stopped me at achieving any goal before and I have never failed at anything I've attempted, so I'm pretty confident about that, haha. I just think Ringling has a little higher 'job placement' program than Art Institutes and other schools mainly because they get recruited from... but we don't know how often that happens and how many graduates are recruited per graduating year.

[ScatteredLogical]

I was more thinking along the lines of U.S. News and World Report. They do those rankings, and placement percentages...but it is just one number with not a lot of supporting details that would clear some things up, and it certainly doesn't track those specific people over time.

I think for Ringling it said 86% are gainfully imployed in their chosen profession (related to their major) within one year. There could be other majors besides CA that are huge, and most of the graduates are from there. I mean, they doubled the seats to 90; do you think twice as many jobs at the places that recruit from there are gonna open to accomodate? Nah, it's still those 10-15 ass-busters that snag the positions.

There is a lot of truth to this thread. You must be the best, or very close to it. You must play your cards right and make the smartest move each step of the way. You yourself must earn anything you get, regardless of the environment. You must have someone who can vouch for your authenticity to act as a connection, especially in an industry that goes understaffed rather than undertalented.

Like he said, good post. Everyone needs to really get this crap through their head less they be completely disillusioned.