Pratt vs. SVA ..Computer Art program

[C0wjuice200]

hey guys,

hey guys whats up, im a senior now and im about ready to leave highschool. I got accepted in both Pratt and SVA computer art programs. Im having trouble right now trying to figure out which school offers a better program, i think that sva is better but thasts becuase i visted the place, but i really dont know about Pratt. I want to persue video game design and or animated movies. In a mouth or so i have to send a enrollment fee for one of these schools, both are extremely expenisve but i think i can cover it.. please help me find a diff between there programs.. anyone?


I also want to post my art... as soon as i fix my scanner

[onigod]

Hey, I'm in a very similar situation. Only difference is I decided to not even go ahead and finish an application for SVA - I've decided on Pratt. I got accepted to Pratt and at the National Porfolio Day I showed SVA my portfolio and they loved it, so if I'd sent in an application they probably would have accepted me - I don't know though.

Here's the thing though; that is - why I didn't apply to SVA. I took a look at their courses and honestly, for me, they seemed to lack foundation drawing courses (not that they didn't have any; just it seemed minimal). I'm going into 3D animation too, so for all our concept drawings, storyboarding, 2D animation courses - drawing is really important; its the underlying blueprint of any animation movie or computer art piece.

Pratt seems to have a lot more to offer. Both in foundation courses in drawing and (although I haven't visited SVA myself so I can't really compare) Pratt has great facilities, labs, technology, everything you'll need for 3D animation.

And another thing - Pratt Institute actually has a campus. SVA doesn't - it's a single building (or a few, I'm not sure exactly) in Manhattan, where Pratt's campus is located in Brooklyn with a metro station that takes you to Manhattan in one stop (making it really convenient to get into the city anyway).

There's some food for thought - get back to me; tell me what you think.

[Mercer]

Visit Pratt if you didn't yet.Sometimes the campus is not always what one expected. You could check the teachers and see what they are doing and did,like projects and what not. Also what the students and alumni are doing/did. It all varies by person but it could help.Open houses are also great aswell.

[goldenavatar]

I hear alot more negative things about Pratt from former & active students then I do about SVA, and this has been way back since the late 90's when I was looking for a college to goto. As a matter of fact, the biggest complaint I've ever gotten from an SVA alumni & student was that there are so many students who still needed to work on their foundation skills. Given what I read in an SVA catalog in '97/'98, they pretty much expect your ass to be strong with that already and be prepared to invest at least 8 hours daily to get up to snuff, if you're not. Best advice I could give on either one of them is, talk to both attending students, recent grads, and alumni. Be sceptical of any input from folks who've not attended as a student or worked as faculty because they really won't know shit that'll help you decide one way or the other. If you haven't already, visit both schools, have some questions ready, take some notes and then find out which school offers the best collection of resources to help you on your career path. Best of luck to ya.

[C0wjuice200]

guys i just got the fincial aid stuff back from both school...... m getiing 39000 + and a 6000 SC fro prat and only 11000 from sva total..... hmmm i havc e a week to decide HELP

[Elwell]

If you were already leaning towards Pratt then your decision is easy. If you were leaning towards SVA, talk to the folks in admissions and explain the situation.

[C0wjuice200]

i did they wont give me anymore money

[Mercer]

Average percent of need met: 65% for pratt
Average percent of need met: 40% for sva
-Which one do you love?Which one will allow you to grow more as a artist/person?Go to the shcool which you feel is right,do not let numbers stand in your way...sure one can offer more or one offers less but which one is right for you,not your wallet? I dunno def. is a tough decesion,good luck. Whatever you decide i am sure it will be worth while.


E

[C0wjuice200]

well since i want to do computer art.. 3d graphics, with annimation both schools are good. idunno which one i love, i mean pratt more comunicative with me, idk about sva... but sva is more "profesional" see im really in a delema

[arter_2]

Well lets see I got into Pratt and I got into SVA I also got wait listed to Ringling over all from what I have heard for a CA student your best bet is SVA many of the things at Pratt are very undeveloped. Yes they do hav a campus but it really isn't worth it if you have been thier you would no. The Technology at SVA is more concitrated to the skills you be recieving and is more up to date with the industry standards. Yes, you will be getting more of a foundation at Pratt but many students say the foundation year for th most part is very remedial.

[Helium Macaroni]

Sweet jesus, don't go to Pratt for CG. Hell, don't go to Pratt for anything if you don't have desire to do hip, contemporary Illustration or fine art. For the love of God you'll be making a huge mistake. I, like Mike, also went to Pratt. I know several people who were in the CG department, and I only know of one who is working full time, and this is 3 years after graduation. The fact is they simply don't have the equipment, teachers, connections or placement opportunities to make it worth your while. Even if they are giving you that much, and thats almost as much as I got, it's STILL a rip off due to how little of a return you will get. You are better off going to Gnomon or something than wasting that much money on Pratt. As has been said, the living conditions are sub par, the facilities are horribly tended to and outdated, the school management and departmental organization is ATROCIOUS. Thats just the tip of the iceberg. Buildings are falling apart, registration, financial aid, etc workers are rude, registration is a week long ordeal, teachers are out of touch with the entertainment industry and tuition is rediculously high for the amount of return. I can go on....

I have little to say as to where the preferencial cirriculum would be for CG, but I do hear that SVA is better. Screw the fact that Pratt has a campus. It may indeed be beautiful to a degree, but that is the extent of its appeal. I love New York with all my heart, however being in that city was 70% of the saving grace Pratt possessed. Had it been elsewhere I would have been gone within a semester.

Take a SERIOUS look at what you are getting into. I can almost guarentee that most of the people you talk to from Pratt will give you a similar prognosis. I can also almost guarentee that you will be extremely dissapointed when you finally enter into the program. I will try to get ahold of some of my friends from the CG dept and see what they have to say.

[Helium Macaroni]

Hey, I'm in a very similar situation. Only difference is I decided to not even go ahead and finish an application for SVA - I've decided on Pratt. I got accepted to Pratt and at the National Porfolio Day I showed SVA my portfolio and they loved it, so if I'd sent in an application they probably would have accepted me - I don't know though.

Here's the thing though; that is - why I didn't apply to SVA. I took a look at their courses and honestly, for me, they seemed to lack foundation drawing courses (not that they didn't have any; just it seemed minimal). I'm going into 3D animation too, so for all our concept drawings, storyboarding, 2D animation courses - drawing is really important; its the underlying blueprint of any animation movie or computer art piece.

Pratt seems to have a lot more to offer. Both in foundation courses in drawing and (although I haven't visited SVA myself so I can't really compare) Pratt has great facilities, labs, technology, everything you'll need for 3D animation.

And another thing - Pratt Institute actually has a campus. SVA doesn't - it's a single building (or a few, I'm not sure exactly) in Manhattan, where Pratt's campus is located in Brooklyn with a metro station that takes you to Manhattan in one stop (making it really convenient to get into the city anyway).

There's some food for thought - get back to me; tell me what you think.

I just read this post... and I have to laugh. Pratt has a good foundation program? You have to be kidding me. Aside from my Light Color and Design Class, the foundation program at Pratt was pitiful. Drawing classes consisted of confused still lifes and approaching them from the most bizzare artistic angles. Rather than taking drawing from an analytical standpoint and learning perspective, or composition, we focuses on tangent lines, and when we had made enough of them, they would construct a drawing. Or we drew outlines, countour lines, squigles, etc untill we had a mess of charcoal which might resemble the boot and stuffed chicken in a shopping cart still life we were attempting to capture on paper. We were never shown how to draw anything from a structural perspective, we always drew as if we were composing a piece of fine art. Figure drawing classes excluded any study of the body in terms of proportion, construction, or anatomy, instead we drew contour line drawings constantly and worked on composition with the body as an element of the picture plane. Never did we treat the body as a three-dimensional form. We were never taught a hierarchy of forms or how to tone them. All we did was push the envelope of figurtive expression without learning a damn thing about actually drawing the human form, nor memorizing its construction as to be able to draw it from our heads. Now, regarless of how interesting such techniques might be after one has learned proper anatomy, proportion, structure, etc, it was POINTLESS to teach figure drawing in this manner to kids right out of high school who had never drawn a figure in thier lifes. It was the most useless foundation program I could possibly have imagined.

I currently attend Art Center (shameless plug here) and I learned more in 3 days from them than I did in an entire year in Pratts foundation program. Nothing is taught from an objective point of view, everything is subjective and interpretive at Pratt. There is never a consistant study of the very basics that a foundation student should learn, aspects of anatomy, proportion, composition, value, lighting, design, perspective etc. And as ANYONE going into the field of entertainment, you must know those fundamentals and then build upon them. There was nothing but interpretive, experimental (for lack of a better term) hippyish approaches to art at that school. Not that that's a negative thing provided you want to lean more towards the developement of a real edgy style, or towards the fine art type Illustration, but for anything entertainment related it simply isn't the place to be.

In response to those other points, Pratt does have a campus, a delapidated, poorly maintained, continuously under-construction campus. The subway is not a one stop before Manhatten, you have to take the G train (quite possible the most obnoxious, and slowest train in existance) to Hoyt-Schermerhorn, then Transfer to an A,C, or E train to get to manhatten. Not that its a horrible trip, I'd kill for a real subway in LA, but it's not *that easy*. Especially late at night, when coming back from Manhatten, you have to wait about a half an hour if you miss the G Train at Hoyt. It's intervals decrease as it gets later, making it a real thorn in the side to anyone coming back from the city tired. I was always envious of people who lived in Manhatten and had school there. They were much closer to the good art stores, night life, museums, etc. Don't get me wrong.. I LOVE Brooklyn, but in terms of school, its more convenient to live in Manhatten, however more expensive.

In terms of facilities, they would have had to make MAJOR changes within the last few years for a difference to be made in the quality of thier labs. (I'm sure they've had to with technology outdating so quickly) However, every one I knew in CG never used the labs. They all primarilly used thier own computers rather than deal with the subpar conditions of the school facilites. I can't say for sure as I was not part of that department. All I can do is relay what I've heard.

Anyways, sorry for the blitzkrieg of anger there, but those of us who went there really don't want anyone to make the same mistake we did. We got ripped off and now we're paying for that mistake.

[Crom00]

I am in the unique position of having Gone to SVA for Graduate and Undergradute studies. I was also co-founder of a Brooklyn based design studio that regularly used interns from both schools.

Regarding the issues of realistic painting, drawing and sculpture. Both schools are hideuosly equiped to teach the subject. There are a handfull of instructors that approach the subject mattter with a basis in reality.

Here are names of instructors to take at SVA for academic skills-

High Focus Drawing- Jim MacMullan and his hand picked instructors
Marvin Mattelson painting
Steve Assel painting (if he still teaches there)
Max Ginsburg painting


The foundation of first year is a disaster in terms of learning any academic art skills. It was great for going out, getting wasted and partying... But i was working 40 hours a week to pay for school. Imagine the horror of saving up for 4 years only to realize the first year is wasted teaching you a foundation skillset... where they teach you very little to nothing of use. All the while you're in NYC hemmoraging money.

When you do graduate expect to find low paying gigs for $12 an hour and up... seem fair? All of this with established companies that have the funds to pay more but chose to exploit artists. I should know I worked for siad companies. I'm not going to even touch on outsourcing.

I can honestly say after going though the program and working with 20 interns in a commercial work environment that you can't find a better way to waste time, and money.

Imagine learning rocket science without empashis on math, science, or chemistry. It's the single biggest racket in the institution of education. It is criminal.

I exhausted tens of thousands of dollars in schooling only to learn most everything on my own. The instructors that actually do teach academic art are ridiculed by thier piers and the management. I'm not even going to go into the complex political structure...

You can actually save yourself a lifetime of heartache and do the following in NYC:

Take drawing painting and sculpture classes at the Art Students league
(inexpensive and you actually learn academic skills)
Learn the skills from itallian and french academic painters, sculptors and draftsmen.

Learn how to use your 3d software of choice either from a place with actual working 3d artists like the Gnomon school or heck even Davecshool for one year.

Take graphic design classes for a couple of semesters, learn typography, and basic graphic design, this skillset will help imensely.

Take management and marketing classes at a busniness school.

Take business law classes because your employers will try to take advantage of you... after all you're an artist.

In my experience in working in the field for 20 years... your artistic skills no matter how great will only take you so far. You will eventually want A) more challenges or B) More money.

Staff artists can quickly reach their cap with pay... that's why management skills are required. Management skills can get you a VP position, with greater salary and security. When's the last time you saw a VP pull an all nighter? Management positions are great if you're in your mid to late 30's.

I have taught high school and have adivsed students to take a year off and really find out what they want to do before they commit to Art school. Take some workshops and actually produce art before commiting to a mountain of debt and a lifetime of wasted dreams.

As a commercial art director, I can say the degree means little or nothing. If I had to choose betweeb an X-felon with no formal art universit ydegree that can execute the work we need on time, under budget vs. a two degree holding artist of lesser skill... the x-felon wins very time.

Think very carefully before you act. There is pressure to go to the big art schol and get that degree... but protect yourself with rock solid academic skills, a strong sense of design and sound, business skills and savy.

Good Luck!

[Crom00]

I am in the unique position of having Gone to SVA for Graduate and Undergradute studies. I was also co-founder of a Brooklyn based design studio that regularly used interns from both schools.

Regarding the issues of realistic painting, drawing and sculpture. Both schools are hideuosly equiped to teach the subject. There are a handfull of instructors that approach the subject mattter with a basis in reality.

Here are names of instructors to take at SVA for academic skills-

High Focus Drawing- Jim MacMullan and his hand picked instructors
Marvin Mattelson painting
Steve Assel painting (if he still teaches there)
Max Ginsburg painting


The foundation of first year is a disaster in terms of learning any academic art skills. It was great for going out, getting wasted and partying... But i was working 40 hours a week to pay for school. Imagine the horror of saving up for 4 years only to realize the first year is wasted teaching you a foundation skillset... where they teach you very little to nothing of use. All the while you're in NYC hemmoraging money.

When you do graduate expect to find low paying gigs for $12 an hour and up... seem fair? All of this with established companies that have the funds to pay more but chose to exploit artists. I should know I worked for siad companies. I'm not going to even touch on outsourcing.

I can honestly say after going though the program and working with 20 interns in a commercial work environment that you can't find a better way to waste time, and money.

Imagine learning rocket science without empashis on math, science, or chemistry. It's the single biggest racket in the institution of education. It is criminal.

I exhausted tens of thousands of dollars in schooling only to learn most everything on my own. The instructors that actually do teach academic art are ridiculed by thier piers and the management. I'm not even going to go into the complex political structure...

You can actually save yourself a lifetime of heartache and do the following in NYC:

Take drawing painting and sculpture classes at the Art Students league
(inexpensive and you actually learn academic skills)
Learn the skills from itallian and french academic painters, sculptors and draftsmen.

Learn how to use your 3d software of choice either from a place with actual working 3d artists like the Gnomon school or heck even Davecshool for one year.

Take graphic design classes for a couple of semesters, learn typography, and basic graphic design, this skillset will help imensely.

Take management and marketing classes at a busniness school.

Take business law classes because your employers will try to take advantage of you... after all you're an artist.

In my experience in working in the field for 20 years... your artistic skills no matter how great will only take you so far. You will eventually want A) more challenges or B) More money.

Staff artists can quickly reach their cap with pay... that's why management skills are required. Management skills can get you a VP position, with greater salary and security. When's the last time you saw a VP pull an all nighter? Management positions are great if you're in your mid to late 30's.

I have taught high school and have adivsed students to take a year off and really find out what they want to do before they commit to Art school. Take some workshops and actually produce art before commiting to a mountain of debt and a lifetime of wasted dreams.

As a commercial art director, I can say the degree means little or nothing. If I had to choose betweeb an X-felon with no formal art universit ydegree that can execute the work we need on time, under budget vs. a two degree holding artist of lesser skill... the x-felon wins very time.

Think very carefully before you act. There is pressure to go to the big art schol and get that degree... but protect yourself with rock solid academic skills, a strong sense of design and sound, business skills and savy.

Good Luck!

[Crom00]

TWO other additions- Take Photography. I have to say the Photography portion of foundation year was quite good. That should have been in my list of classes to take, you will learn quite a bit of great skills. I took Sardi Klien at SVA. Whever you wind up working you will need to take photos

Take a writting class: Learn to write good copy for an ad, how to write an engaing tutorial on conecpr art.org. This was you can position yourslef as an expert nd express yourself.
Good luck!

[Crom00]

For those that do have their heart set on SVA. Check with admissions, for realistic academic art instruction, your will be best served in the illustration department. Find out who the instructors are and google them. As I stated the foundation year is a wash out, it really takes until second year to be eligible for instructors that can help you meet your goals.

Continue to ask around on these message boards as I'm sure there are others that have been to SVA and can give a more vaired opinion. SVA did offer independent studies where you become kind of an apprentice of a particular illustrator or find a mentor. If there are instructors that work in the same vein as Steve Assel, Max Ginsburg, John Murray and former chair Jack Endewelt you will be in good hands.

The bottom line, prepare for hard work and shell out tons of money to get the info. This life requires a serious commitment and you may be in positions where you have to make serious comprimises for your art so make ever moment count.

[Crom00]

Also regarding the point of actually getting to Pratt and the cost of rent. For those that have never been to Pratt it IS a pain to get there, the poster who opined about the G train was spot on. The G is sporadic at best during the day, forget about night time travel.

In your visits to the campus time how long it takes you to get to the school from Manhattan, you'll be surprised.

SVA's campus buildings are scatterd around the east and west site. The real advantage here is that for a commuter you can get to SVA door to door in 1 hour even if you're in NJ. That may sound like a long haul. But by living the outer boroughs you save lots of cash. I've lived in Queens and Newark and I was able to get cheaper rent. I know folks that live in Brooklyn and take just as long as me to get to SVA when they lived in Manhattan, the Bronx and Brooklyn. Brooklyn is fast becoming as expensive as Manhattan.

I know one illustrator that has a studio next to the Path train in Newark and pays $1500 a month for a floor of a factory building. It's gotta be like 5000 sqaure feet.

Hope this helps, My posts are a bit harsh but as an artist, educator, and art director, it kills me seeing starry eyed students come to NYC and get a harsh dose of reality. I have also seen some students rise against lots of adversity and do really well. So with hard work and a relentless sense of stick-to-a-tive-ness.

[riccjohn]

I go to SVA right now and I just finished freshmen year as a Computer Art major. I can tell you that SVA has THE best computer art department, at least on the east coast. The department is split up into two major fields, VFX and animation (even though the two fields are merging together more and more). Freshmen year you take two core drawing classes in which you draw from the model, imagination, life, etc. Second semester, students used to take a traditional animation class, but they are beginning to now change it to a computer animation class. I had never touched Maya before SVA and in that one semester I learned more about 3D animation than I thought I would learn in a full year. Next year we will move on to more modeling and more advanced animation. I also had the choice between Pratt and SVA. I was also accepted to the school of the museum of fine arts in boston, parsons, and a few other schools. After looking at the CA dept in each school, SVA had my vote hands down. I saw some people said that SVA was a more "professional" school. Well, I do believe that they prepare you extremely well for the industry after school, but in an extremely creative way. My creativity was encouraged and not hindered in any way by preparing myself for a job.

[dennistheartist]

You can also consider FIT. They may not be all that well connected in the industry but they are pretty solid with the foundation courses. I think 2 years of foundation Illustration is required before you go into upper BFA division Animation program & they now have an graduate program for illustration. I saw this thread because I'm in this very same dilemma right now but am considering which graduate school to go to for animation. Yes SVA is a great school but what they don't tell is that after a certain number of years after graduation they cut the career assistant for their graduates, I BS you not. Just ask. I don't know much about the career placement at Pratt, but from what I hear here, it is not so great. This kinda makes my decision harder because of the extravagant costs of grad school. Good luck kid.

[JMACSVA]

I just happened to see your post. I am happy to answer any questions about the Computer Art department at SVA. We are having an open house on Saturday, November 8.

I think we do a good job at SVA but, you have to be comfortable at any school.
SVA is a good choice but there are a few good schools to choose from.

I am far from objective so take a look at www.svacomputerart.com and let me know if you have any questions.

Best,

John McIntosh

[BubbaGump]

Well Daniel Clowes hated Pratt...

[Harro]

allow me to offer some more perspective on this issue.

I'm currently in my senior year at Pratt, and *alot* has changed since the eighties and nineties.

The campus is gorgeous now, there are tons of talented kids, and the classes and labs are all getting much better funding.

That being said, I'm a communications design Illustration major.

Pratt *does* heavily endorse experimentation with your illustration, and because of this there are vastly varied styles and levels of technical skill level, some of them are fantastic, and I find others to be lacking.

I personally am rooming with a friend who is in the computer arts program, and although he is thriving he has complained a few times that there are other schools with better facilities, teachers, and end results.

Although I would definitely endorse Pratt for Illustration, I have to say it's your call in terms of the computer arts program.

However don't be discouraged by alot of what the above posters are saying.

Pratt has made a commitment to shaping up over the last fifteen years or so, and it's really all coming together now.

[Danuh]

The department is split up into two major fields, VFX and animation (even though the two fields are merging together more and more). Freshmen year you take two core drawing classes in which you draw from the model, imagination, life, etc. Second semester, students used to take a traditional animation class, but they are beginning to now change it to a computer animation class. I had never touched Maya before SVA and in that one semester I learned more about 3D animation than I thought I would learn in a full year. Next year we will move on to more modeling and more advanced animation.

I'm also a senior in highschool and looking into both pratt and SVA for the 2009 fall term - I want to get into traditional animation but I find that every where I turn people are switching to 3D. Is it really all 3D in SVA as well? I considered Calarts for a while too but the expenses are ridiculous and I hear they don't give out any decent scholarships.