concept test - as told by pic accounts

[GenConfusion]

With my never ending pursuit of finding employment in the game industry, I have yet come to another test submission exercise. (it seems that those of us who are unproven in the game world, are asked to do these tests to see if our skills are up to par... nature of the business, that I am more than happy to participate in... not sure if it's the norm, for everyone, but it is definitely been a part of my experience)

I was contacted by a game company recently who liked my painting ability and requested (if I were interested) to do a practical scenario submission for a concept position that they were possibly looking to fill.

I was asked to do a level design of a typical warehouse environment.

Initially on first request I was asked to produce an overhead orthgraphic perspective that illustrated the area in which this warehouse would reside, as well as a character POV perspective of the interior of said warehouse. I produced the plan view ortho first, since it was technically easier to do.

http://www.taminglight.com/test/warehouse.jpg

Upon discussion with the principals of the company, I was asked if I could pull out from the image so more of the environments flavor could be realized. (and this was my mistake, from a slight miscommunication I suffered, they originally asked for this.. so I revised it immediately with a pull away shot, no damage done!!!!)

http://www.taminglight.com/test/scene.jpg

I also offered some added design options for the look of the warehouse, in case my design wasn't interesting enough, these are very rough, but hopefully good enough to get an idea across.

http://www.taminglight.com/test/step1.jpg

http://www.taminglight.com/test/step2.jpg

After my next correspondence, I was happy that my first design was good enough for the test, and I was asked if I could produce an exterior perspective as well, along with the already asked for interior. Me being, more than willing to continually support their interest in me, did so gladly. This time for the exterior I also produced thumbnails of various angle views to ensure my thoughts were in sync with theirs..

layouts (http://www.taminglight.com/test/layouts/)

they chose number 1.

Now I start down the road to final image production, rendering, etc.

I produce the exterior final line drawing:

http://www.taminglight.com/test/ext.jpg

and paint:

http://www.taminglight.com/test/warehouse.ext.jpg

and I also produce the interior final line drawing:

http://www.taminglight.com/test/int.jpg

and paint:

http://www.taminglight.com/test/warehouse.int.jpg


the final images have been sent out and now I wait with fingers crossed for a "your hired" reply... (one could only hope) :)

but nonetheless, for my fellow artists out there who are interested in acquiring a position in the gaming industry, this may be a scenario you could possibly come up against... It's a necessary evil for companies to institute these tests to see if candidates could work on direction, how good their speed is, how personable they are in talks, etc, etc.... hopefully I ranked high in all aspects, and maybe I can in the near future say I'm a happily employed concept artist.

Hopefully this has been helpful to those of you out there in the same position as me.


thanks for looking!!!!

Bob Steinman

[jilted_one]

:evilbat: Hey man i hope you get the job.

I like your layouts and stuff and the detailed painting is even better.

[Snowfly]

very informative, i'd always wondered what it was like. i suppose you applied for environment design?

(saved your thread btw. thanks!)

[AmadorL]

WISH YOU LOTS OF LUCK! I LIKE THE FINAL RENDERINGS, THEY ARE VERY GOOD DUDE....KEEP ON KILLIN'EM...

A

[I.was.ink]

Wow! i like your thought process, and it seems fun, but first you got to learn your stuff right? I love the paintings, especially the second one. Juicy!:jump1:

[wronghand]

Firstly, I would like to say your work is very good and I hope you get the job.

Secondly, I apologize for the agressive nature of my post but this is something
I strongly believe in. And of course it is only my humble opinion.

However, and sorry if I misunderstand, but from your post I get the impression
that you did this work on spec, without compensation.

From my perspective I find this a very frightening. In my industry, illustration, choices
by artists (including myself) like this have made it more difficult for anyone to make a
living and even more difficult to get a start. It seems self defeating to me.



http://www.wronghand.com/wrong/starvingartist.jpg


Below is a pdf file I have put together with my thoughts on this subject:

http://www.wronghand.com/wrong/starvingartist.pdf

I would be happy to hear opposing views,
Sincerely,

Mike Kerr (aka W. Hand)

[firechild]

Wow, your work is really amazing, great perspective and detailed painting. How long did it take you to work up the final pencil sketches to the fully painted version? Warehouses are not very interesting in themselves, but you rendered it so nice I actually like looking at it!
All this work does seem a bit excessive to me for an games concept test, even if you have limited experience. I would have thought a couple of pencil sketches and one finished painted version would have been enough, but hey, I'm not the guy who's going to be forking out the $$ for your excellent environmental skills, guess they have to be sure....by the way, hope you don't mind, but what games company is this for?
great work!

[Evil_Dan]

Great work, very informative and good luck. I agree with wronghand on this though. I would rather companies have an evaluation period than a test. This test seems rather involved, but hey it might get you job.

[tyboogie]

good work there--except a few little problems with a few concepts--nothing major---like the wooden crates on the floor messily thrown right next to the desk seems a bit odd. theres something so tight and easy to read in your sketches, and then when you paint them the details go bye bye--like the enterior of th ewarehouse--the shelf on the left in the back completely dissapears -- this could be an issue for a concept artist and transfering from sketches to color finishes.

as for the issue of doing a test for free--I say go for it. If they are going to ask you to do the work chances are they are serious about hiring someone--in the industry we call that an OPPURTUNITY-- it happened to me . i did a couple paintings for a game co. and ended up getting real money to do character portraits that will be in the next Never Winter nights expansion pack.--if your not hungry enough to show people in positions that you really are passionate about games, entertainment, etc., then step aside and let the people who are hungry feed. the only problem with that mop analogy is that MOST of us would be "mopping" ( i.e.creating concept art) for free on our own time anyway.


let us know if you get the job, keep it up!!!----ty

[GenConfusion]

I just got real busy, but I'm back..

jilted_one - thanks

Snowfly - yup environment design, as the main responsibility, with overall concept work generally, and I'm glad it was helpful to you

AmadorL - thanks, hopefully the company wil see it the same way...

I.was.ink - you mean learn your stuff... as far as creating art??? I'm not sure what you mean..thanks for the compliment

wronghand - I totally agree with you on this.. I have been a professional illustrator for over 11 years, and this testing thing is new to me, i have done it a couple of times now... and yes this is not for compensation, it's a practical scenario test that the companies seem to want to give, to see if you could do directed work... ( you would assume my resume would be able to give them that idea, but it obviously doesn't) I have worked my entire career in commercial print production, doing packaging, print work, web and multimedia, for some of the largest clients in the retail markets... however, I have very little experience in gaming... and since I am trying to acquire staff work in that realm, I don't see the test as a huge deal... yes if I were giving this to them for their use, yes I would have a problem with it, but that's not the case here.... I had to "prove" myself with it.... (and don't worry, I hav protected myself from any unlawful misuse of my work on their behalf, I've been playing the game long enough to know the tricks)

but for your point it is very valid for the young artists out there who may perhaps be blind to the ways of the darkside... there are a lot of wolves out there looking for new prey....

it seems that I just happen to be in a position where I have to do these tests, as I believe others may be in the same sort of position... it's just the nature of the beast... because if I don't do the test, there surely wil be someone else out there who will....

firechild - thanks, all the work took around 16 to 20 hours or so to do.....I didn't record it, I just kind of knocked it out and mistakenly didn't keep a timeframe, but thats typical time for me, baed on otehr work I have done.. and if and when I get an answer from this company I will mention it then.... I don't want to harm my chances just yet...

Evil_Dan - I agree totally... it's shame that it is this way.. but it is

tyboogie - thanks, and for the painted parts... yeah there are some vague areas... but the paint part was more or less a topping on the cake, they already had an idea of my painting ability, so there was no need for me to do that part of cleanly....

thanks everyone for commenting, I'll keep you posted as to what happens

[Muttonhead]

I too have done a few pieces art "for review", and frankly its starting to make me mad, plus I think it is a fairly new thing as well. It seems to stem from an inability amongst the art-directors of the world to use their imagination.

I once had a professor who told me a story about an art director who saw an illustration of hers that was of a bowl of spaghetti, and the art director SERIOUSLY asked her: "It's nice, but do you think you can do HAMBURGERS?"

I agree that it seems that a potential client can get some free art out of the whole thing. The only thing I would recommend is to either place watermarks with your name and copyright fairly large across the piece, or make it fairly low-res. Unfortunately this does not solve the problem of having to do them in the first place.

This also seems to have something to do with Employers, and management-types being more and more unwilling to "take a chance" on someone, or "trust" in someones abilities. THEY get an image in their head, and then seek out artists to interperet what they are thinking of with only terribly un-helpful descriptions to go on.

Art Director: "Hey, I want to think of something cool, but I want you to tell me what it is"

Artist: "Uhhh, a flying cat who runs for President?"

Art Director: "Hmmm. Well, I don't know, could you make the cat some other kind of animal? Something cool, but not a cat."

Artist: "Err... how about a fox or a lizard."

Art Director: "Nah, lets go with the cat, but does he have to be flying?"

Artist: "I hate you."

(This has been a production of Muttonhead studios, all rights reserved)

-S.A.M.

[Rad]

I don't get it? Of course you would have to do a couple of drawings for them. Who knows how long it took people to do the drawings in their portfolios. Also some artist can't adapt to what their boss wants. They can only make what they want. I think it's a good idea, unless of course they use your work for profit.

[Muttonhead]

Right, but how can you gaurantee they WON'T use it? You haven't signed a contract that says "I am doing this work for free, and you won't use it"

I agree that it is hard to get work without agreeing to do these things sometimes because there are so many other artists out there who would be willing to do it.

But I think the point here is that if you as an artist are struggling for jobs that any number of other artists could do, then perhaps they aren't very meaningful jobs, or perhaps you do not offer something unique enough that it makes you irreplaceable.....

What makes YOU as an artist different and unique that a potential client will want to hire YOU because they want YOU.. not any ol' artist who can hold a pencil....

-S.A.M.

[Phait]

When I saw the paintings I said outloud something like "whoah cool!" - really glad to see that skill there. I hope you land the job as well, great work!

[agreeable]

Yeah... I work in 3d and event design and was recently asked by an agency to produce ideas and visuals for a jewellery counter. I was told that we would then be working towards implementation.

This I did.

Ofcourse they actually decided that they would do it in house.

6 months later I walk into the store and there it is. No, it's not the same, but many people having seen my folio which places a photo of the unit next to my sketches have asked how much I m suing for!!!!!!!!!!

Gone are the days of paid pitches and we have to be so careful as to what we do for free in all cases. Don't be afraid to speak up if you believe someone has used your work..

[GenConfusion]

Muttonhead - I agree, it is unfair in a way, and love the art director story..

Rad - sure I understand it is a good thing, but I think employers use it to liberally nowadays... I think a summation of an artist as a whole is a good way of gauging their abilities... i.e., take a look at my client list, there you can see that I have worked for some big names, if I were a slacker or half assed talent of an artist, I never would have acquired these names in my portfolio... (sure I could have made them all up) but if I did and couldn't paint my way out of a wet paper bag, the client who you did work for could perhaps get you into some kind of trouble (let's say...blacklist you from their industry) and if you took time to make a site or whatever to pertain to a particular industry.. it would be stupid of you as an artist to commit any fradulent acts such as lying about a client list from the get go.... yes, it's hard for a potential client to know how you work by just looking at your portfolio... but if you take the time to put up a site with information, I think all that info as a whole should be enough collateral to gain some work even if it's minimal to at first prove yourself....

Muttonhead - right there also... of course by not signing a contract, things like this forum are useful tools in getting the image out there to in a way let the public see who the true author is... and yes that is another good point...

"then perhaps they aren't very meaningful jobs,"

I think this is another pitfall of being an artist, because until you have a name for yourself established this fact is very apparent... we are all just treated like numbers IMO

Phait - thanks a lot dude

agreeable - that sucks, but it sounds like you may have a good case there, best of luck with it... I hope you get your just due...

and on a final note I did get multiple paying commissions from this company I did the test for...

[GenConfusion]

oh and I forgot, check out my site... I just uploaded a complete overhaul of it....

the design has done a 180 and I have included my professional print production work as well....

and if you guys would like.

I'm also interested in beefing up my link list, so if anyone out there had any interest in link swapping, (your link on my site for my link on your site, situation) I'd be glad to.....

[Happeh]

I was certain the last line was going to show the company version of your work and ask us if it looked similar. ;) Glad I was wrong. I agree that seems like a lot of work for free. If that is the entrance requirement for a job, what can you do?

The progression of the idea is helpful and informative. Thanks for showing us how you did it. It looks extremely professional.

[endregan]

wow really well done, all of this. hardwork pays off huh? :)

[AfroLaxMan]

Well, GenConfusion-

That is what I have had to do for every job I have applied for in the gaming industry. My skills are more towards the 3d realm, but, I have been a concept artist for a couple of companies in the past. I have found it to be a common practice for a game company to ask to see what can be done in a short time period, under their rules adn directions, and under their approval.

If I have had good conversations with the AD already, then I will play around with the assignment a bit, and do some things that will show I can do their work on time and on budget, but I do it so they won't want to use off the bat.

If the AD is pushy about getting it done "his way," then ask for a contract, smile, and tell him if he wants it his way, he can go to burger king.
If the company is honest, and backs their own words, then you may have nothing to worry about.

It is a tough call, but I have always put my needs in front of my work when it comes to the career, because, truthfully, if my skill goes up while doin the peice, then I know I can make a better version next time on my own time.

just my $.02...

[davi]

you are amazing.

it's very nice to see practical envoriment design. alot of artists pick up their pencil and sketch out huge mountian spires in the sky with dragons flying around and all kinds of stuff... but 30% of the games out there are based off reality.

sports stadiums, racing tracks, car lots. great to see that you don't mind doing that type of stuff. it will seriously get you far if you don't mind doing that type of work.

A+

[Layil]

GenConfusion:

(and don't worry, I hav protected myself from any unlawful misuse of my work on their behalf, I've been playing the game long enough to know the tricks)

Would you care to share a few of those tricks with us poor suckers so we dont get ripped off?
:evilbat:

[LEN]

I would like to see a thread in the tutorial section that describes how not to get screwed in the art business. I hear alot of stories about people doing work that gets used and the art director dosn't pay. this happens way too often and I think that honest artists, and 99% are need to know how to protect themselves.

[Tedsuo]

Originally posted by GenConfusion
it would be stupid of you as an artist to commit any fradulent acts such as lying about a client list from the get go....


Stupid but unfortunately common. Every person I've talked to who has had to hire artists for both film and games has had multiple encounters with fradulent resumes, stolen artwork, and bogus websites. One one occasion, someone in the room actually yelled out "hey, that's mine!" Doh!



But regardless, your stuff looks good and you sound like you know what you're doing. I'm sure you will have no problems!

[Eric UNSL]

So how did this turn out GenConfusion? Did you get the gig?

[Red_Rook]

Sorry mate, all i see is little red x's might be my browser though.:(

[3bleadpencil]

red x's too....and how do I avoid not getting screwed?
regards
3B

[skrubbles]

If you look carefully you'll see that this thread goes back to february. So the pics have probably been taken down since then.

[GenConfusion]

thanks to the message system the CA offers to any post, I was made aware that this thread regained some life.

I reposted the images once again for everyone to see.

Sorry to be out of what's been going on here, but I just got engaged, and actually today 8/23/03 was my engagement party!!!! I created a comic book for my proposal, and I'm handling copyrights on it as I write this.. and if anyone is interested... I would love to share that with CA????? when the legalities are finalized of course

now to answer some of your questions on protecting yourself. Now these are really simple.

1. by posting here, I have secured this work as being mine somewhat. enough people have witnessed it as being mine

2. you can also provide a good PO/contract that you get signed before you do anything. Just like a regular job invoice. Just when you're doing this type of work (test stage work) it may be difficult to get someone to sign off on anything... But make your contract clear to your intentions, don't try to be clever, misleading or use "dem big lawyer words", state:

I'm doing this work for you as a test, but for my own piece of mind, I want to know from the get go that it will remain my property and will only be used for your review needs. If they don't like that (which IMO is not harsh wording) and they have a problem signing.. then that is a serious red flag.. then you re-think if you want to work with a company like that... (wording is example only, only use literally if you want to look extremely unprofessional)

Most importantly, don't be too wordy, and don't try to appear deceitful, you will scare people away...

as an example, I have been a professional graphic designer/illustrator for over 11 years now. When I first started out, I used the Graphic Artists Guild supplement contracts for my work. I began to find out that they read like Watergate conviction documents, that made AD's shy away from hiring me... so I revised the wording so it meant the same thing but didn't sound so formal, and I haven't had a problem since...

3. another little trick to do, if you really feel uneasy about something, is print out your work, seal in it an envelope, mail it to yourself, and never open it... only open it if a problem arises, and open it in front of a judge in court...

now this may not work legally, but if you show that you put forth some kind of effort, you may have a better chance at putting the ball in your court, so to speak..


but ultimately, with the ease of the internet... use it, it's a great way of getting what you did out there.... if a company steals your stuff, then brodcast it everywhere that such company may frequent.. they steal your stuff, you ruin their credibility.....

but for the most part, hope that you dont run into a company like this.. typically if they have been in business a long time, they are usually trustworthy... and yes even if they are a startup they could also be a great company as well..

most importantly, trust your instincts....

and if you are asked to sign anything for a test, then I seriously suggest you understand what you are signing, and also be adamant that they sign you're agreement stating that this is only for test review... (it's not wrong to want to protect yourself, you may be discouraged and if you are then that company is probably not worth bothering) I find that companies that don't mean harm and are pros understand where you're coming from and would not hesitate to sign your agreements...

but as I undertand the gaming community is a small tight family, and sure you will come across individuals with an agenda to do you wrong, but overall I think people working in this industry for the most part are professionals and understand the ramifications of negative actions.. and realize the backlash they could recieve.. so maybe, they won't be !@#$% and treat you with common professional courtesy

then there are the wrongdoers, who do what they do and eventually get weeded out, but I think those coud be predicted... possibly


and yes, I did recieve some console concept work from this test, for an upcoming X-Box game...

[GenConfusion]

Actually now, I am also working on a huge MMORPG online game with a good corral of well known artists and illustrators.. can't talk about it yet, but I'll be able to soon!!!!!!!!!!! hopefully

thanks everybody,

and if you have any more questions feel free to ask away, and I will try to answer them.

Bob Steinman

[Porkasaurus]

I don't think anyone touched upon this. By giving art tests you can sometimes avoid situations of stolen artwork. It's the best way I can think of for someone to actually prove that is their work.

The other great part about these tests is that they can become part of your portfolio. So how do you lose?

[Jason Manley]

i havent taken the time to read this entire thread. i do think your images are well done. something that companies will look for in their concept candidates is not simply whether they can draw or paint things in a professional manner. part of the concept art gig is idea development. my t wo cents on those images you have done is that they can easily find similar things on the internet if they go to google and do a search for wharehouses.

when you are doing your concepts...you put in all the narrative ideas...wharehouse stuff...the basic stuff...any modeller or texture artist or intern will be able to think of pallettes and forklifts and lights and boxes. the key is to be able to take all those basic and expected ideas and add a twist to them....i mean what kind of wharehouse is it? is it a warehouse for baby formula in case form? or is it a warehouse that stores human blood for the red cross? is it where old helicopters are held? who knows....but once you know what the place is then you can design for it...you can build little stories in your head about it...i mean if its a helicoptor place maybe the office has plans for them...collecting on the walls..yellowed with age...besides tools and parts and the choppers what else could you put in there that would make it a place people will want to go adventure in?? maybe one of the helicoptors is just a shell and you can walk thru part of it...look at the stuff...maybe there are little signs suggesting you keep your head down while engines are being warmed up (think of the bathroom man getting his head axed) ....you see....im not really saying any ideas here are g ood...but at least they are ideas.

a concept artist is an idea development guy.....what you did was very professional but it lacks that part about fresh imagery...or story....you gave the a couple beautiful paintings...but like i said...you could have easily showed them five pics on google and done the same thing. you want to show them what the game COULD look like....not necessarily what people expect it to look like if you say the word warehouse. id r ather go into a warehouse to chase bad guys if it was full of helicoptors or morque equipment or other stuff that could be interesting to see..than a room full of boxes...which is where the current state of most game environment designs is....door....hallways....boxes....more crates...door...office with desk and piece of paper on it...etc...

its the conceptartists job to be creative visually and fit it in with the design from the writers. it is your job to give them things they cannot picture. not things they can find on google necessarily.


if its a game where you just need a basic warehouse you can still put stuff in it...populate it...with interesting stuff....i guess it just depends on what genre the game is and what kind of game it is.

style is a whole different consideration....but all i am speaking of is idea development....visual idea development....that is what a concept designer does...he or she designs with ideas.

you have shown great skills with the brush...keep pushing the ideas...creativity and ideas are KEY.

ps...you have some perspective issues on both which are making the pieces seem a little off in a technical way....the lighting is wonderful though....keep up the good work.





j

[Turqy]

I thought I'd post a response to this thread since I'm currently going through some of this myself.

Art tests are unavoidable in the game industry unless you have friends at a company who are in a position to hire you or help hire you. Even after 4 years in the industry I still have to do art tests.

Usually I have no problem doing them because they add extra work to your portfolio. They are also used to judge whether or not an applicant takes criticism well.

Although here is one problem that I've run into while doing these. Some companies will request that you not place any of your art test work in a portfolio or on a website for personal use. Their reasons are usually that the work you are doing is based on some concept for their current or upcoming IP. As far as I know they cannot prevent you from displaying your original work as long as you are not under contract which is fairly rare for tests.

It really bothers me to work on an art test and not be allowed to use what you produce. If you are turned down after completing the test or decide to look elsewhere then the time spent becomes wasted in this case.

Has anyone run into this before? What are everyone's thoughts on this?

There are a few situations where I can understand a company not wanting you to use the content that you create for a test. One of these is doing skin textures for an actual character model that is being used in the company's unreleased product. You might be safer to post images of just the skin texture without the copyrighted model included. As a company or AD you should really make sure that art tests consist of similar styles of art and not actual content from your current project.

[capone]

Are art tests difficult to obtain?, probably alot easier than actual work experience. I am currently about to start my 2nd year of a BA in computer games design and next year hope to get a work experience placement. I have tried before (went mad and wrote to over 40 companies sending out cv's + demo's etc) but it seems work experience in the games industry is a complete no no. I found out that of every one who applied for work experience in the games industry from my university got turned down, only 5 (of hundreds) got a placement. Maybe games companies prefer people to do these art tests?

[Jason Manley]

I had to do an art test my first time around....did about thirty PAGES of concepts for it during my finals week at ringling...i wont hire someone who is talent only and no experience without the test because making art for games requires very specific skills artwise. models for games need to be made in a specific manner etc...

every art school or college has only a five percent or so placement rate in the games industry from my experience...but every art school or college only has about five percent of the crop that works hard enuff to crank out pro quality work right out of the gates.

so do the tests...and dont complain...if you get a test give it all you got...cuz that means you are far along in consideration.

if its a concept job...you had best do as pro quality work as you can..afterall youre competing against all the main page guys for these gigs.


j

[capone]

models for games need to be made in a specific manner etc...

This is something I strongly agree with, I don't understand people who go straight into modeling without a art background and then get a job out of it. If you are a good artist/designer surely your models will be better?, thats why I spent 5 years doing graphic design and art courses before doing my computergame design course (which mostly involves 3d modeling)

Also a little question, when getting these art tests do they specifically ask a certain size for them to be drawn?

Thanks